Moreover, Mac os x is as buggy as Windows and gets viruses too btw. I love Apple but for complex applications you simply cannot use their software.
I won't discuss the bugginess of Mac OS X, since it became more buggy since Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger, though Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard is quite okay in my eyes. Mac OS X 10.7 Lion and OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion are just so-so.
But please show us ONE, only ONE, actual virus, that affects Mac OS X. I am not talking about viruses for the classic Mac OS, for which there have been some, but since Mac OS X' arrival, there have been no viruses. And yes, a trojan is not a virus, even if you would like to think so.
Look for the "Mac Virus / Malware Guide" on MacRumors to learn more about Mac OS X and available malware and the differences and ways to protect yourself. Or don't. You are probably not here to learn anything, just to stir up some shit (ui, no censorship, how refreshing).
It's not that simple anymore though. When he said that in 1997 or 1998, it seemed to be true. But what is "the desktop"? That definition is changing.
I have a Mac Pro, with a 27" monitor. If you asked me in late 2009 whether that would remain my main desktop, I would have replied; Hell. Yeah! But no longer. Most of my daily computer use has been with an iPad. My friends who have bought one, an increasing number, have been finding that it does indeed grow on you, and that you spend more hours with it over time.
Most of those people own Windows machines. Though, that's changing as well.
It's very possible that we'll find iOS as the next major "desktop". In fact, I believe that it's already happening.
With estimates that tablet sales will exceed 375 million in 2016, the desktop will no longer be considered to be a Windows world. If the Surface doesn't have rapid and broad adoption, it will be out of the picture.
If only it was that simple:
1. The iPad is nowhere near powerful enough to replace the Mac unless all you use it for is simple tasks. Maybe one day but not anytime soon.
2. Tim Cook said only a few weeks ago at the AllThingsD conference that Apple had no plans to merge OSX and iOS or replace OSX with iOS.
As I said the Windows/Mac battle is over. They have reached a status quo that satisfies both parties.
Apple has re-invented itself and built a new OS for a new mobile world. That is the battle now. Looking backwards to the Windows battle would be a big mistake
Essentially Apple is now a mobile phone & consumer entertainment devices company that also make computers. Sorry if that hurts but it's the truth.
god I hope so... it would be a sign that a great deal of people are not only untalented but do little with their free time if they can just survive with an iPad.
seeing how every book, web site, App, game, magazine -- you read, visit, use, play, and keep on an iPad are made on an REAL computer - it is far from dead. Again, unless you are untalented or a very simple person even at home - but hey more people drink Cocacola, over a good wine with a meal.
I have more respect for someone who actually thinks they needs a Windows PC over an iPad - they a bit confused fort not using OSX but at a minimum their lives do not fit in a Toy.
Now that you've insulted tens of millions of people, I guess it's time to say that you are a very unimaginative individual, with no understanding of people, or the world we live in.
I wonder what makes you think that you are so talented and sophisticated. It's likely that you are neither.
Actually, Bill didn't retire at all. He just gave up the CEO position. He remains Executive Chairman, and heads a major committee on innovation. His is still the major power at Microsoft, and you can be sure that nothing Ballmer does isn't approved by him. He just removed himself from the limelight after the debacle of the Federal case against Microsoft where he was caught lying on the stand several times.
So reads the press release but Bill is just a figurehead. His passion is philanthropy not software and IMO he disdains money as well as Microsoft. Steve Bummer is his pet. We're all loyal to our pets even if they're destructive and dumb!
1. The iPad is nowhere near powerful enough to replace the Mac unless all you use it for is simple tasks. Maybe one day but not anytime soon.
2. Tim Cook said only a few weeks ago at the AllThingsD conference that Apple had no plans to merge OSX and iOS or replace OSX with iOS.
As I said the Windows/Mac battle is over. They have reached a status quo that satisfies both parties.
Apple has re-invented itself and built a new OS for a new mobile world. That is the battle now. Looking backwards to the Windows battle would be a big mistake
Essentially Apple is now a mobile phone & consumer entertainment devices company that also make computers. Sorry if that hurts but it's the truth.
You're missing the point here. Most computing is trivial. Like what we're doing now. Not trivial in the sense of being unimportant, because when people communicate, it's always important. But trivial in the sense that it could be don't with far less processing power than we now have.
Most consumer computing is, as we all know, browsing the Internet. Doing e-mails. Messaging, twitter, Facebook, letters, playing general games, some light printing, etc.
All of that can easily be handled with the iPad.
I use my Mac Pro for Photoshop, publishing, video editing, mastering of music recordings, CAD, etc.
For anything heavy in that vein, the iPad isn't, yet, up to it. But for light video editing,
Publishing, Photography, and even CAD, it does just fine.
The only people who don't think so are those who haven't done it. And I've met a few who insisted they have, but under more intense questioning, I can tell that they're just BSing.
i've been a mac convert for almost 12 months now, i took the plunge and bought a macbook pro last summer. i can most definitely state that os x lion is no more reliable than what windows 7 is. my mac has crashed more times on me in the last 12 months than what windows 7 has in the last 2 years. os x is full of bugs and apple software certainly does not "just work". tell that to everybody who recently downloaded the latest thunderbolt update for their macs to then find out that they wouldn't boot up. microsoft is not alone in making serious screw up's, or having the monopoly on buggy software. os x has loads of bugs, take the volume keys not working when you boot up, you have to plug in headphones and unplug them again before the volume keys work. this is a bug that's been in os x since around 2007 and it still isn't fixed....
I think Microsoft gets a bad rap for Windows but only because OTHER peoples hardware messes things up. I think they actually do quite well considering all hardware is made by someone else. Apple owns hardware and software so they have less of an excuse....
It will be interesting how the Surface works out since Microsoft will then own both the software AND the hardware....
So reads the press release but Bill is just a figurehead. His passion is philanthropy not software and IMO he disdains money as well as Microsoft. Steve Bummer is his pet. We're all loyal to our pets even if they're destructive and dumb!
He's not a figurehead. And this "passion", as told by his father, who got him into it, is because he was tired of reading bad things about himself in the press, as well as being hit by pies wherever he went. As his father said, in a video interview, he suggested to his son that he do this so that he could get out of that rat race. People close to him said that he was very rattled at Microsoft's trial when he was found out to have lied several times.
And don't ever forget that he is by far, the biggest stockholder in Microsoft. If he doesn't want something done, it won't get done. Don't be naive.
I was in best buy the other day and every effing pc of of course had windows. Every pc had this software running advertising its capabilities. Dell, Sony ect are nothing but clowns. They simply help MS off set the cost of hardware by building the machines and paying MS a licensing fee. Big freaking wow! And all their screens had a washed out appearance to them. Only the Apple computers had vibrant, deep colors. I picked up a last season MacBook air 11 inch. 2 gig ram, 64 gig HD. It was a floor sample. I got it for $564.00!!! 18 months no financing. Incredible!!! Screw the pc and MS.
Jerry, I don't think it is sufficient to refute an argument (that MacBooks have increased in sales while netbooks have decreased in sales) but just saying "you're wrong" You can either ask for proof, or provide counter proof, but your response is insufficient. So, if you want to be proactive, refute this if not ask the OP to support.
The original assertion was not about netbooks. That likely is the cause of your confusion.
Nothing is perfect. But your problems are not the average, to be sure. And there are plenty of Microsoft apologists as well, they just don't see themselves that way.
oh i'm not a microsoft apologist either, i've done my fair share of ranting and raving about them too. i've just never understood the praise on apple, like they can do no wrong when they clearly can. like all companies, they have their faults.
I don't want to dismiss your experience, but something is very atypical with what you describe. A "crash" for a Mac is called a Kernal Panic, and they are extremely rare. I know I have had one or two in all the years of owning macs (I won't count my Hackintosh, which will KP occasionally when I am making serious edits to the system, but even that machine is incredibly stable). The application crashes that I have had have almost exclusively been either MS apps like Word, or caused by other third parties like Flash or Java.
As far as your alleged volume issue, I cannot recreate this on a 2008 MBP nor on a 2011 MBA. And for the record there is still no recorded incident of a VIRUS on a Mac. You give an example of Malware which again BTW was the result of a third party (Java). So, no one reading this site is going to fall for the "Macs aren't any more secure than PC" argument, because the OS is inherently more secure, regardless of how big a target Macs are.
So, what do you suppose is the reason that people didn't get all up in arms because there was a few day lag before the TB update was delivered? You seem to suppose that it is some powerful mind control (Anytime I see Fanboy in a post I know I can immediately discount most of what is said). Maybe it is because these things are very infrequent and usually handled well. I'm sorry you're not having the same great experience with OS X that most of us are, but as I said, what you describe is not the experience most of us have. And that experience is what makes us defend Apple from the FUD that gets posted.
oh i do enjoy my mac and like i said, i'm glad i made the switch, i was just meaning to say that macs aren't infallible, they have their problems too. the crashes i've had, besides application crashes and the kernel panic i mentioned, i've had the finder crash quite frequently. having to do a force quit and a relaunch, it's never relaunched and worked, i've always had to hold the power button down and do a complete reboot.
i do really like the responsiveness of os x compared to windows, i was just pointing out that like all operating systems, os x has its fair share of problems too
i've just never understood the praise on apple, like they can do no wrong when they clearly can. like all companies, they have their faults.
You've never stood praising Apple which you've concluded means the person believes Apple can't do any wrong? I think I see the problem with your thinking.
Most of the posters on this forum I respect — many of which I disagree with often — have negative and positive views about Apple and a wide array of topics that seem to crop up here. I'd say only a handful of regular posters over the years seem to never speak ill of Apple and a great many whom I consider to be trolls never have anything positive to say, but most just find Apple tends to be better for their needs, not perfect.
It will happen. Not overnight, but as these ongoing trends continue and pickup speed, Windows will fade away. There are too many who have been burned by the MS failures and constant problems with use of Windows. People, and corporations too, want software and equipment that works, is dependable, and not in constant need of all sorts of fixes. The wrting is on the wall. Just ask NOKIA.
Your experience is just a small subset of what business people do with their portable devices. SAP, for example has purchased more than 20,000 iPads, and has replaced people's notebooks with them. They have reported an increase in productivity, and that their staff is happier using them.
SAP isn't alone here. Few people need to work on a full blown spreadsheet or database whole on the road. For the few that do, a tablet, at least for now, isn't the thing to use. But for most other uses, it's just as good, or better.
You're going to have to get used to that idea, like it or not. Forrester Research recently reported that in 2011, businesses (not BYOD) bought $6 billion of iPads. That in 2012" business will buy $9 billion of iPads, and that in 2013" businesses will buy $16 billion of iPads.
If that doesn't validate the iPad for business use, I don't know what else might.
sure, when a custom tablet app can do the job for work in the field, it's better. but don't be so fast to brush off all the traditional office work. millions of people still do that too. you seem to have missed my initial sentence: it is all about using the right tool for the job/situation.
amazing how few tech blabbers can grasp it is all about using the right tool for the job/situation.
unlike the tech blabbers who mainly hang out, do "social" on the web, and then BS on their websites, i do "real work" - spreadsheets, contracts, detailed memos, review designs, etc. so my work setup now is very simple: on the desk are wireless mouse/keyboard and a thunderbolt display to go with my basic Macbook (just two wires to plug in, total). on the road, i just take the same Macbook of course, which is brain dead simple to do. not a Macbook Air because the optical drive is still important because, despite all the hype about the cloud and such, the easiest and most dependable way to swap/leave behind lots of files with people from other companies, attorneys, designers, etc. on the spot is still to burn CD's and receive/give it to them (no fiddling needed with their IT or ID's or anything, can do it anywhere, and they can then be shared with others in those offices very easily too).
Apparently we have similar needs. I do find tho that a USB memory stick works as good or better than an optical disk so I don't need an optical drive. If the iPad had a USB port it would probably get me to 80%(good enough to live with) of what I need for a portable computer.
Comments
I won't discuss the bugginess of Mac OS X, since it became more buggy since Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger, though Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard is quite okay in my eyes. Mac OS X 10.7 Lion and OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion are just so-so.
But please show us ONE, only ONE, actual virus, that affects Mac OS X. I am not talking about viruses for the classic Mac OS, for which there have been some, but since Mac OS X' arrival, there have been no viruses. And yes, a trojan is not a virus, even if you would like to think so.
Look for the "Mac Virus / Malware Guide" on MacRumors to learn more about Mac OS X and available malware and the differences and ways to protect yourself. Or don't. You are probably not here to learn anything, just to stir up some shit (ui, no censorship, how refreshing).
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
It's not that simple anymore though. When he said that in 1997 or 1998, it seemed to be true. But what is "the desktop"? That definition is changing.
I have a Mac Pro, with a 27" monitor. If you asked me in late 2009 whether that would remain my main desktop, I would have replied; Hell. Yeah! But no longer. Most of my daily computer use has been with an iPad. My friends who have bought one, an increasing number, have been finding that it does indeed grow on you, and that you spend more hours with it over time.
Most of those people own Windows machines. Though, that's changing as well.
It's very possible that we'll find iOS as the next major "desktop". In fact, I believe that it's already happening.
With estimates that tablet sales will exceed 375 million in 2016, the desktop will no longer be considered to be a Windows world. If the Surface doesn't have rapid and broad adoption, it will be out of the picture.
If only it was that simple:
1. The iPad is nowhere near powerful enough to replace the Mac unless all you use it for is simple tasks. Maybe one day but not anytime soon.
2. Tim Cook said only a few weeks ago at the AllThingsD conference that Apple had no plans to merge OSX and iOS or replace OSX with iOS.
As I said the Windows/Mac battle is over. They have reached a status quo that satisfies both parties.
Apple has re-invented itself and built a new OS for a new mobile world. That is the battle now. Looking backwards to the Windows battle would be a big mistake
Essentially Apple is now a mobile phone & consumer entertainment devices company that also make computers. Sorry if that hurts but it's the truth.
Now that you've insulted tens of millions of people, I guess it's time to say that you are a very unimaginative individual, with no understanding of people, or the world we live in.
I wonder what makes you think that you are so talented and sophisticated. It's likely that you are neither.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Actually, Bill didn't retire at all. He just gave up the CEO position. He remains Executive Chairman, and heads a major committee on innovation. His is still the major power at Microsoft, and you can be sure that nothing Ballmer does isn't approved by him. He just removed himself from the limelight after the debacle of the Federal case against Microsoft where he was caught lying on the stand several times.
So reads the press release but Bill is just a figurehead. His passion is philanthropy not software and IMO he disdains money as well as Microsoft. Steve Bummer is his pet. We're all loyal to our pets even if they're destructive and dumb!
You're missing the point here. Most computing is trivial. Like what we're doing now. Not trivial in the sense of being unimportant, because when people communicate, it's always important. But trivial in the sense that it could be don't with far less processing power than we now have.
Most consumer computing is, as we all know, browsing the Internet. Doing e-mails. Messaging, twitter, Facebook, letters, playing general games, some light printing, etc.
All of that can easily be handled with the iPad.
I use my Mac Pro for Photoshop, publishing, video editing, mastering of music recordings, CAD, etc.
For anything heavy in that vein, the iPad isn't, yet, up to it. But for light video editing,
Publishing, Photography, and even CAD, it does just fine.
The only people who don't think so are those who haven't done it. And I've met a few who insisted they have, but under more intense questioning, I can tell that they're just BSing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne2612
i've been a mac convert for almost 12 months now, i took the plunge and bought a macbook pro last summer. i can most definitely state that os x lion is no more reliable than what windows 7 is. my mac has crashed more times on me in the last 12 months than what windows 7 has in the last 2 years. os x is full of bugs and apple software certainly does not "just work". tell that to everybody who recently downloaded the latest thunderbolt update for their macs to then find out that they wouldn't boot up. microsoft is not alone in making serious screw up's, or having the monopoly on buggy software. os x has loads of bugs, take the volume keys not working when you boot up, you have to plug in headphones and unplug them again before the volume keys work. this is a bug that's been in os x since around 2007 and it still isn't fixed....
I think Microsoft gets a bad rap for Windows but only because OTHER peoples hardware messes things up. I think they actually do quite well considering all hardware is made by someone else. Apple owns hardware and software so they have less of an excuse....
It will be interesting how the Surface works out since Microsoft will then own both the software AND the hardware....
He's not a figurehead. And this "passion", as told by his father, who got him into it, is because he was tired of reading bad things about himself in the press, as well as being hit by pies wherever he went. As his father said, in a video interview, he suggested to his son that he do this so that he could get out of that rat race. People close to him said that he was very rattled at Microsoft's trial when he was found out to have lied several times.
And don't ever forget that he is by far, the biggest stockholder in Microsoft. If he doesn't want something done, it won't get done. Don't be naive.
Even if people to go back to a notebook (some will, most won't, I suspect) the halo effect may mean it is an Apple notebook.
Wow... Put this into the dictionary next to the definition of 'Whistling Past the Graveyard'.
And all their screens had a washed out appearance to them. Only the Apple computers had vibrant, deep colors. I picked up a last season MacBook air 11 inch. 2 gig ram, 64 gig HD. It was a floor sample. I got it for $564.00!!! 18 months no financing. Incredible!!!
Screw the pc and MS.
Quote:
You are dreaming ..go to any information system department of any company and see if Windows is over..
Every office has a bunch of fax machines too.
Just sayin'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunyabinez
Jerry, I don't think it is sufficient to refute an argument (that MacBooks have increased in sales while netbooks have decreased in sales) but just saying "you're wrong" You can either ask for proof, or provide counter proof, but your response is insufficient. So, if you want to be proactive, refute this if not ask the OP to support.
The original assertion was not about netbooks. That likely is the cause of your confusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Nothing is perfect. But your problems are not the average, to be sure. And there are plenty of Microsoft apologists as well, they just don't see themselves that way.
oh i'm not a microsoft apologist either, i've done my fair share of ranting and raving about them too. i've just never understood the praise on apple, like they can do no wrong when they clearly can. like all companies, they have their faults.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunyabinez
I don't want to dismiss your experience, but something is very atypical with what you describe. A "crash" for a Mac is called a Kernal Panic, and they are extremely rare. I know I have had one or two in all the years of owning macs (I won't count my Hackintosh, which will KP occasionally when I am making serious edits to the system, but even that machine is incredibly stable). The application crashes that I have had have almost exclusively been either MS apps like Word, or caused by other third parties like Flash or Java.
As far as your alleged volume issue, I cannot recreate this on a 2008 MBP nor on a 2011 MBA. And for the record there is still no recorded incident of a VIRUS on a Mac. You give an example of Malware which again BTW was the result of a third party (Java). So, no one reading this site is going to fall for the "Macs aren't any more secure than PC" argument, because the OS is inherently more secure, regardless of how big a target Macs are.
So, what do you suppose is the reason that people didn't get all up in arms because there was a few day lag before the TB update was delivered? You seem to suppose that it is some powerful mind control (Anytime I see Fanboy in a post I know I can immediately discount most of what is said). Maybe it is because these things are very infrequent and usually handled well. I'm sorry you're not having the same great experience with OS X that most of us are, but as I said, what you describe is not the experience most of us have. And that experience is what makes us defend Apple from the FUD that gets posted.
oh i do enjoy my mac and like i said, i'm glad i made the switch, i was just meaning to say that macs aren't infallible, they have their problems too. the crashes i've had, besides application crashes and the kernel panic i mentioned, i've had the finder crash quite frequently. having to do a force quit and a relaunch, it's never relaunched and worked, i've always had to hold the power button down and do a complete reboot.
i do really like the responsiveness of os x compared to windows, i was just pointing out that like all operating systems, os x has its fair share of problems too
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2
PC hardware is declining
While "declining" is ambiguous, you cannot mean that PC unit volume has been declining. That is not true. More PCs get sold every year.
Most of the posters on this forum I respect — many of which I disagree with often — have negative and positive views about Apple and a wide array of topics that seem to crop up here. I'd say only a handful of regular posters over the years seem to never speak ill of Apple and a great many whom I consider to be trolls never have anything positive to say, but most just find Apple tends to be better for their needs, not perfect.
It will happen. Not overnight, but as these ongoing trends continue and pickup speed, Windows will fade away. There are too many who have been burned by the MS failures and constant problems with use of Windows. People, and corporations too, want software and equipment that works, is dependable, and not in constant need of all sorts of fixes. The wrting is on the wall. Just ask NOKIA.
oops
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Your experience is just a small subset of what business people do with their portable devices. SAP, for example has purchased more than 20,000 iPads, and has replaced people's notebooks with them. They have reported an increase in productivity, and that their staff is happier using them.
SAP isn't alone here. Few people need to work on a full blown spreadsheet or database whole on the road. For the few that do, a tablet, at least for now, isn't the thing to use. But for most other uses, it's just as good, or better.
You're going to have to get used to that idea, like it or not. Forrester Research recently reported that in 2011, businesses (not BYOD) bought $6 billion of iPads. That in 2012" business will buy $9 billion of iPads, and that in 2013" businesses will buy $16 billion of iPads.
If that doesn't validate the iPad for business use, I don't know what else might.
sure, when a custom tablet app can do the job for work in the field, it's better. but don't be so fast to brush off all the traditional office work. millions of people still do that too. you seem to have missed my initial sentence: it is all about using the right tool for the job/situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr
amazing how few tech blabbers can grasp it is all about using the right tool for the job/situation.
unlike the tech blabbers who mainly hang out, do "social" on the web, and then BS on their websites, i do "real work" - spreadsheets, contracts, detailed memos, review designs, etc. so my work setup now is very simple: on the desk are wireless mouse/keyboard and a thunderbolt display to go with my basic Macbook (just two wires to plug in, total). on the road, i just take the same Macbook of course, which is brain dead simple to do. not a Macbook Air because the optical drive is still important because, despite all the hype about the cloud and such, the easiest and most dependable way to swap/leave behind lots of files with people from other companies, attorneys, designers, etc. on the spot is still to burn CD's and receive/give it to them (no fiddling needed with their IT or ID's or anything, can do it anywhere, and they can then be shared with others in those offices very easily too).
Apparently we have similar needs. I do find tho that a USB memory stick works as good or better than an optical disk so I don't need an optical drive. If the iPad had a USB port it would probably get me to 80%(good enough to live with) of what I need for a portable computer.