I hope that this trend of adopting iPads in schools is a wake up call to all educational content providers such as Raz-Kids.com which still use flash. My daughter's school has participated in successful iPad pilot but also uses Raz-Kids.com to access online books for kids. I have talk to the customer support and Raz-Kids have no plans of dropping the flash. Baffling.
I hope that this trend of adopting iPads in schools is a wake up call to all educational content providers such as Raz-Kids.com which still use flash. My daughter's school has participated in successful iPad pilot but also uses Raz-Kids.com to access online books for kids. I have talk to the customer support and Raz-Kids have no plans of dropping the flash. Baffling.
Actually, I can speak to that as well -- Flash is not going anywhere in K-12 education anytime soon.
For publishers/content producers, there is no single technology to build their content in that will work with all browsers, and it is usually too costly to do dual-development in Flash and HTML5. So, if you go for the largest market penetration when you can only pick one technology, Flash still is the clear winner.
Some stats that support our decision to still support Flash:
- Over 50% of our users to our websites still view the site in a browser that does not support HTML5
- We are only seeing 1% of the usage coming from an iOS device.
So you either choose to pick one technology that cuts off 1%, or the other that cuts off 50%.
I wonder what the service life of a $370 iPad is compared to a $370 Windows laptop. And what the support costs are for each over time. And how the resale value of each compares when remaining devices are retired.
This is probably HUGE savings, above and beyond being a great educational tool.
Some stats that support our decision to still support Flash:
- Over 50% of our users to our websites still view the site in a browser that does not support HTML5
- We are only seeing 1% of the usage coming from an iOS device.
So you either choose to pick one technology that cuts off 1%, or the other that cuts off 50%.
You can do a lot with CSS2 and JS which all browsers support. Adding HTML5 only gets you a few things like the canvas tag which is of limited usefulness at the moment and HTML5 is not necessary to view video because it can be dynamically streamed in different codecs without much additional work. Embellishing your layouts with rounded corners and shadows is nice use of HTML5 but not essential to learning. Since your technology is produced in Flash are you at all surprised that you only have 1% iOS usage? I'm surprised it isn't zero.
Since your technology is produced in Flash are you at all surprised that you only have 1% iOS usage? I'm surprised it isn't zero.
Fair point and one I didn't explain well. Our sites are 99% HTML, including the vast majority of interactive assets. But there are times where you need to build instructional material that requires a higher level of interactivity (eBooks with read a-louds, think virtual labs, interactive maps, etc), and that is where the Flash vs. HTML5 debate comes into play.
Someone can view the vast majority of our site on mobile Safari without any issue -- so the 1% number does not represent a population that is underrepresented due to the technology. It instead reflects the current true market for K-12 users in our space.
Fair point and one I didn't explain well. Our sites are 99% HTML, including the vast majority of interactive assets. But there are times where you need to build instructional material that requires a higher level of interactivity (eBooks with read a-louds, think virtual labs, interactive maps, etc), and that is where the Flash vs. HTML5 debate comes into play.
Someone can view the vast majority of our site on mobile Safari without any issue -- so the 1% number does not represent a population that is underrepresented due to the technology. It instead reflects the current true market for K-12 users in our space.
I totally agree with you since I am a long time Flash programmer. There are many things that are extremely difficult if not impossible to replicate in HTML5 however with the explosion of iOS in the consumer space and now the same trajectory appearing likely in education you probably shouldn't ignore the trend and be caught flatfooted when your customers abruptly leave for greener iOS pastures.
I totally agree with you since I am a long time Flash programmer. There are many things that are extremely difficult if not impossible to replicate in HTML5 however with the explosion of iOS in the consumer space and now the same trajectory appearing likely in education you probably shouldn't ignore the trend and be caught flatfooted when your customers abruptly leave for greener iOS pastures.
Agreed, but there is only so much development dollars available, and it gets smaller every year due to the drastic reduction in purchasing of K-12 materials over the last 5 years (almost a 50% reduction at this point). Thus, you have to be wise with how you spend your dollars.
The approach we are taking is to almost skip HTML5 completely. Use normal HTML4 for the vast majority of our products, and Flash for the desktop when the pedagogy calls for it. Then, find those targeted use cases where a native iOS app provides the best bang-for-the-buck, bundle an app.
We need to move in this direction much, much faster to succeed in the Information Age. I still see computers relegated to a computer lab in schools rather than in every classroom.
We setup the first LAN computer lab in June 1980 at Saratoga HS, Saratoga, CA -- 7 Apple ][s, 1 Corvus 5 MB (yes 5 megabyte) HDD, 1 Centronics Printer. Each Apple ][ had a BW monitor and a Corvus LAN card (The Teacher's Apple ][ had 2 floppy disk drives and the Centronics printer card). The HDD and printer was sharable among all the Apple ][s.
I am surprised how little has changed in the intervening 32 years. When I first moved back to the Bay Area in 2005, I visited my granddaughter's 5th grade class. They had iMacs in the classroom (about 3 students to each iMac) -- but they were for specialty use -- not part of the regular curriculum.
Now, all three grandkids, each have there own iPad... My granddaughter has matriculated to the local high school -- it has a computer lab, but no electronic devices are allowed in the classroom (somehow phones and smart phones are exempt).
I think that there should be 1 iPad per student in every classroom -- it should be used as an integral learning tool to replace paper, pens, books, research, tests, entertainment...
Which is the problem. Take away the "bright and shiny" and what's left?
It's like the old tactic of trying to "connect" with kids by incorporating concepts into a rap. Having to call on pop culture to get kids' attention because they couldn't be bothered to be interested otherwise. ----------> Self-starters who are eager because they recognize the benefits and later rewards vs. shiny inducements.
That being said, I AM in support of technology such as iPads in class. Wholeheartedly, at that. Whatever helps, helps. Though reliance on technology to make a subject more interesting or palatable is a bad habit, but one that begins with students, not teachers.
This problem goes even further up the ladder to college education.
The late Professor T.G. Elliott of the Classics Department of the University of Toronto at Mississauga (formerly Erindale College), under whom I had the pleasure of studying for a number of years, had already addressed this issue and others like it years ago in his course syllabi, and he probably wasn't the first one:
--------
"Since most members of the class are first-year students, some remarks to them may not be amiss. The university is sometimes referred to as an institution of higher education, a term which is meant to exclude the education which we inflict upon children, or even upon adolescents. It is the education we offer to young (and other) adults in the hope that they will use our assistance in teaching them to think for themselves. There is no expectation that such education can simply be delivered to the student. If the student does not take an active part in his own higher education, he will not obtain it, and will find any degree conferred upon him quite useless. If you find yourself moping through one of the textbooks and sitting sullenly through the lectures, daring the instructor to interest you in the subject, I invite you to reread this paragraph."
"The university differs from other institutions of higher learning in offering courses in what used to be called the liberal (as distinct from the servile) arts. These are courses for people who want to learn to think for themselves, rather than direct their efforts immediately towards the earning of a salary, and CLA 160 is one of these courses. Those who are frightened by the thought of taking courses that are not immediately connected with a job, should understand that the facility with the written word, which is taught in liberal arts courses, is what communications depend on."
------------
Are students not able to relate to the material without all these technological "learning aids"? Are we asking too much of them if these new aids are taken away or not implemented? No doubt they *can* improve attention and increase interest, but this may be indicative of a deeper problem: why are schools feeling pressure to do this? Do these aids enhance an already comprehensive experience, or are they being used as a band-aid to cover up a fundamental lack of eagerness to learn?
Excellent post... the difference is between enabling teaching and enticing/enabling learning!
I don't live in the San Diego Unified School District ... I live in Carlsbad. I'd also prefer it if you could keep your self righteous and condescending observations to yourself ... most of which aren't even correct to begin with.
I think that there should be 1 iPad per student in every classroom -- it should be used as an integral learning tool to replace paper, pens, books, research, tests, entertainment...
This, I am sure, is going to come. The sooner the better. There will be no reason for kids to carry dozens of heavy books around all the time. They will learn to have a natural access to modern time technology, which will help them to survive in a society, that will become more and more dependable on computerized techology.
And to have some fun while learning, can't be to bad either.
I think that there should be 1 iPad per student in every classroom -- it should be used as an integral learning tool to replace paper, pens, books, research, tests, entertainment...
Do you imagine they will take them home everyday to do homework or leave them locked up in the classroom at night?
Do you think they would be required to purchase them or be issued them?
If purchased, low income families would receive reimbursements most likely?
I am not sure I understand exactly what you are trying to get across, but I think my point still stands:
Let me repeat it again and I'll stick to small words.
Even if the school wants to use the Volume Purchase Program which requires that each student has a separate ID under his/her control there is nothing to prevent parents of students under 12 (or even 18 if the parents wish) from setting up an ID the parents control on the child's behalf. THAT id would be used for redeeming the school provided codes and would belong to the child's authorized legal representative until such time as said party wishes to turn control over to the child. Problem for the school is solved. And zero need for anyone to limit what they do to any age audience.
How exactly is this a "reading comprehension problem"? Yes, the money came from a voter approved initiative, but the original assertion I made that the District doesn't have any money and is laying off teachers, staff, closing schools, and cutting back on basic services ... yet buys 26,000 iPads.
Because the vote was made. Schools and School Districts don't have the authority to reallocate funds just because they feel like it. Those votes are sacrosanct. IF they want to use the money on something else they have to put that new use to a vote. Something which is costly and time consuming in and of itself. Particularly if, and it is not uncommon, the assignment of the money to a particularly use carries with it a restriction that it must remain in that use for at least a set period of time.
So unlike how you are trying to paint it no one just decided to fire a crap ton of teaches to use their salaries to buy shiny toys.
Do you imagine they will take them home everyday to do homework or leave them locked up in the classroom at night?
Do you think they would be required to purchase them or be issued them?
If purchased, low income families would receive reimbursements most likely?
We had to by our own TI calculators.
Never miss an opportunity to learn or advance! Definitely take them home -- study, D&P, extra credit, compositions/term papers, research, speciality training (music, storyboarding, video editing, podcasts, iTunes U, etc.). They'd probably learn more on one clear evening -- outside with the StarWalk app, than in a semester in a classroom -- and it'd be much more exciting and rewarding.
Both purchased and issued -- reimbursements available for low income -- possibly partially subsidized by Apple, Fed, State & Local govts, Booksellers, App sellers.
Depending on when, the TI (or HP) calculator, likey, cost more in today's $ than an iPad.
The person who has pioneered in this 1:1 iPad:student experiment is Fraser Speirs:
Do you imagine they will take them home everyday to do homework or leave them locked up in the classroom at night?
Do you think they would be required to purchase them or be issued them?
If purchased, low income families would receive reimbursements most likely?
We had to by our own TI calculators.
Obviously, it may vary, but in my daughter's school, the students got convertible slate tablets a few years ago (before the iPad came out). The school purchased them and maintains them. They're locked down tight and if there's ever a problem, the IT staff simply wipes and reinstalls. Student can only save to flash drives (which parents had to buy).
The parents signed a contract at the beginning of the period stating that if the laptop was lost or broken that the parent would pay for repairs or replacement. Insurance was available at modest cost. The laptop was carried with the student year after year. I believe these originally cost $1500 and my daughter used hers for 5 years before completing 8th grade and going to a different school.
The laptops stayed at the school during the summer, but the students could take them home when they had a project that required them. Any class could assign a project, but they were most heavily used by science, English, and Social Studies.
Let me repeat it again and I'll stick to small words.
Even if the school wants to use the Volume Purchase Program which requires that each student has a separate ID under his/her control there is nothing to prevent parents of students under 12 (or even 18 if the parents wish) from setting up an ID the parents control on the child's behalf. THAT id would be used for redeeming the school provided codes and would belong to the child's authorized legal representative until such time as said party wishes to turn control over to the child. Problem for the school is solved. And zero need for anyone to limit what they do to any age audience.
Thank you for restating -- I understand your point much better now. Oh, no reason to be an ass about it either.
Doesn't change the fact that Apple's policy is for user to be 13 to create and *use* the account (despite other ways around it), and thus makes your scenario and edge case -- an edge case that makes it a remote possibility for publishers to want to put products into the market to fill that niche.
Comments
I hope that this trend of adopting iPads in schools is a wake up call to all educational content providers such as Raz-Kids.com which still use flash. My daughter's school has participated in successful iPad pilot but also uses Raz-Kids.com to access online books for kids. I have talk to the customer support and Raz-Kids have no plans of dropping the flash. Baffling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IsmOfAm
I hope that this trend of adopting iPads in schools is a wake up call to all educational content providers such as Raz-Kids.com which still use flash. My daughter's school has participated in successful iPad pilot but also uses Raz-Kids.com to access online books for kids. I have talk to the customer support and Raz-Kids have no plans of dropping the flash. Baffling.
Actually, I can speak to that as well -- Flash is not going anywhere in K-12 education anytime soon.
For publishers/content producers, there is no single technology to build their content in that will work with all browsers, and it is usually too costly to do dual-development in Flash and HTML5. So, if you go for the largest market penetration when you can only pick one technology, Flash still is the clear winner.
Some stats that support our decision to still support Flash:
- Over 50% of our users to our websites still view the site in a browser that does not support HTML5
- We are only seeing 1% of the usage coming from an iOS device.
So you either choose to pick one technology that cuts off 1%, or the other that cuts off 50%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme
I wonder what the service life of a $370 iPad is compared to a $370 Windows laptop. And what the support costs are for each over time. And how the resale value of each compares when remaining devices are retired.
This is probably HUGE savings, above and beyond being a great educational tool.
And then there's versus the paper textbooks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muadibe
This is the wave of the future. Most schools will have a tablet of some kind, mostly iPads.
It will be interesting to see what brand of tablets are deployed by South Korean schools.
Graphic in the San Jose Mercury News that shows the different TCO for iPad's versus Textbooks, assuming 100% adoption of either platform.
They assumed a different price for the iPad, but you can see that upfront costs does not change much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeak
Some stats that support our decision to still support Flash:
- Over 50% of our users to our websites still view the site in a browser that does not support HTML5
- We are only seeing 1% of the usage coming from an iOS device.
So you either choose to pick one technology that cuts off 1%, or the other that cuts off 50%.
You can do a lot with CSS2 and JS which all browsers support. Adding HTML5 only gets you a few things like the canvas tag which is of limited usefulness at the moment and HTML5 is not necessary to view video because it can be dynamically streamed in different codecs without much additional work. Embellishing your layouts with rounded corners and shadows is nice use of HTML5 but not essential to learning. Since your technology is produced in Flash are you at all surprised that you only have 1% iOS usage? I'm surprised it isn't zero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Since your technology is produced in Flash are you at all surprised that you only have 1% iOS usage? I'm surprised it isn't zero.
Fair point and one I didn't explain well. Our sites are 99% HTML, including the vast majority of interactive assets. But there are times where you need to build instructional material that requires a higher level of interactivity (eBooks with read a-louds, think virtual labs, interactive maps, etc), and that is where the Flash vs. HTML5 debate comes into play.
Someone can view the vast majority of our site on mobile Safari without any issue -- so the 1% number does not represent a population that is underrepresented due to the technology. It instead reflects the current true market for K-12 users in our space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeak
Fair point and one I didn't explain well. Our sites are 99% HTML, including the vast majority of interactive assets. But there are times where you need to build instructional material that requires a higher level of interactivity (eBooks with read a-louds, think virtual labs, interactive maps, etc), and that is where the Flash vs. HTML5 debate comes into play.
Someone can view the vast majority of our site on mobile Safari without any issue -- so the 1% number does not represent a population that is underrepresented due to the technology. It instead reflects the current true market for K-12 users in our space.
I totally agree with you since I am a long time Flash programmer. There are many things that are extremely difficult if not impossible to replicate in HTML5 however with the explosion of iOS in the consumer space and now the same trajectory appearing likely in education you probably shouldn't ignore the trend and be caught flatfooted when your customers abruptly leave for greener iOS pastures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I totally agree with you since I am a long time Flash programmer. There are many things that are extremely difficult if not impossible to replicate in HTML5 however with the explosion of iOS in the consumer space and now the same trajectory appearing likely in education you probably shouldn't ignore the trend and be caught flatfooted when your customers abruptly leave for greener iOS pastures.
Agreed, but there is only so much development dollars available, and it gets smaller every year due to the drastic reduction in purchasing of K-12 materials over the last 5 years (almost a 50% reduction at this point). Thus, you have to be wise with how you spend your dollars.
The approach we are taking is to almost skip HTML5 completely. Use normal HTML4 for the vast majority of our products, and Flash for the desktop when the pedagogy calls for it. Then, find those targeted use cases where a native iOS app provides the best bang-for-the-buck, bundle an app.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
We need to move in this direction much, much faster to succeed in the Information Age. I still see computers relegated to a computer lab in schools rather than in every classroom.
We setup the first LAN computer lab in June 1980 at Saratoga HS, Saratoga, CA -- 7 Apple ][s, 1 Corvus 5 MB (yes 5 megabyte) HDD, 1 Centronics Printer. Each Apple ][ had a BW monitor and a Corvus LAN card (The Teacher's Apple ][ had 2 floppy disk drives and the Centronics printer card). The HDD and printer was sharable among all the Apple ][s.
I am surprised how little has changed in the intervening 32 years. When I first moved back to the Bay Area in 2005, I visited my granddaughter's 5th grade class. They had iMacs in the classroom (about 3 students to each iMac) -- but they were for specialty use -- not part of the regular curriculum.
Now, all three grandkids, each have there own iPad... My granddaughter has matriculated to the local high school -- it has a computer lab, but no electronic devices are allowed in the classroom (somehow phones and smart phones are exempt).
I think that there should be 1 iPad per student in every classroom -- it should be used as an integral learning tool to replace paper, pens, books, research, tests, entertainment...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Which is the problem. Take away the "bright and shiny" and what's left?
It's like the old tactic of trying to "connect" with kids by incorporating concepts into a rap. Having to call on pop culture to get kids' attention because they couldn't be bothered to be interested otherwise. ----------> Self-starters who are eager because they recognize the benefits and later rewards vs. shiny inducements.
That being said, I AM in support of technology such as iPads in class. Wholeheartedly, at that. Whatever helps, helps. Though reliance on technology to make a subject more interesting or palatable is a bad habit, but one that begins with students, not teachers.
This problem goes even further up the ladder to college education.
The late Professor T.G. Elliott of the Classics Department of the University of Toronto at Mississauga (formerly Erindale College), under whom I had the pleasure of studying for a number of years, had already addressed this issue and others like it years ago in his course syllabi, and he probably wasn't the first one:
--------
"Since most members of the class are first-year students, some remarks to them may not be amiss. The university is sometimes referred to as an institution of higher education, a term which is meant to exclude the education which we inflict upon children, or even upon adolescents. It is the education we offer to young (and other) adults in the hope that they will use our assistance in teaching them to think for themselves. There is no expectation that such education can simply be delivered to the student. If the student does not take an active part in his own higher education, he will not obtain it, and will find any degree conferred upon him quite useless. If you find yourself moping through one of the textbooks and sitting sullenly through the lectures, daring the instructor to interest you in the subject, I invite you to reread this paragraph."
"The university differs from other institutions of higher learning in offering courses in what used to be called the liberal (as distinct from the servile) arts. These are courses for people who want to learn to think for themselves, rather than direct their efforts immediately towards the earning of a salary, and CLA 160 is one of these courses. Those who are frightened by the thought of taking courses that are not immediately connected with a job, should understand that the facility with the written word, which is taught in liberal arts courses, is what communications depend on."
------------
Are students not able to relate to the material without all these technological "learning aids"? Are we asking too much of them if these new aids are taken away or not implemented? No doubt they *can* improve attention and increase interest, but this may be indicative of a deeper problem: why are schools feeling pressure to do this? Do these aids enhance an already comprehensive experience, or are they being used as a band-aid to cover up a fundamental lack of eagerness to learn?
Excellent post... the difference is between enabling teaching and enticing/enabling learning!
I don't live in the San Diego Unified School District ... I live in Carlsbad. I'd also prefer it if you could keep your self righteous and condescending observations to yourself ... most of which aren't even correct to begin with.
This, I am sure, is going to come. The sooner the better. There will be no reason for kids to carry dozens of heavy books around all the time. They will learn to have a natural access to modern time technology, which will help them to survive in a society, that will become more and more dependable on computerized techology.
And to have some fun while learning, can't be to bad either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I think that there should be 1 iPad per student in every classroom -- it should be used as an integral learning tool to replace paper, pens, books, research, tests, entertainment...
Do you imagine they will take them home everyday to do homework or leave them locked up in the classroom at night?
Do you think they would be required to purchase them or be issued them?
If purchased, low income families would receive reimbursements most likely?
We had to by our own TI calculators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeak
I am not sure I understand exactly what you are trying to get across, but I think my point still stands:
Let me repeat it again and I'll stick to small words.
Even if the school wants to use the Volume Purchase Program which requires that each student has a separate ID under his/her control there is nothing to prevent parents of students under 12 (or even 18 if the parents wish) from setting up an ID the parents control on the child's behalf. THAT id would be used for redeeming the school provided codes and would belong to the child's authorized legal representative until such time as said party wishes to turn control over to the child. Problem for the school is solved. And zero need for anyone to limit what they do to any age audience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd
How exactly is this a "reading comprehension problem"? Yes, the money came from a voter approved initiative, but the original assertion I made that the District doesn't have any money and is laying off teachers, staff, closing schools, and cutting back on basic services ... yet buys 26,000 iPads.
Because the vote was made. Schools and School Districts don't have the authority to reallocate funds just because they feel like it. Those votes are sacrosanct. IF they want to use the money on something else they have to put that new use to a vote. Something which is costly and time consuming in and of itself. Particularly if, and it is not uncommon, the assignment of the money to a particularly use carries with it a restriction that it must remain in that use for at least a set period of time.
So unlike how you are trying to paint it no one just decided to fire a crap ton of teaches to use their salaries to buy shiny toys.
Never miss an opportunity to learn or advance! Definitely take them home -- study, D&P, extra credit, compositions/term papers, research, speciality training (music, storyboarding, video editing, podcasts, iTunes U, etc.). They'd probably learn more on one clear evening -- outside with the StarWalk app, than in a semester in a classroom -- and it'd be much more exciting and rewarding.
Both purchased and issued -- reimbursements available for low income -- possibly partially subsidized by Apple, Fed, State & Local govts, Booksellers, App sellers.
Depending on when, the TI (or HP) calculator, likey, cost more in today's $ than an iPad.
The person who has pioneered in this 1:1 iPad:student experiment is Fraser Speirs:
http://fraserspeirs.com/
Obviously, it may vary, but in my daughter's school, the students got convertible slate tablets a few years ago (before the iPad came out). The school purchased them and maintains them. They're locked down tight and if there's ever a problem, the IT staff simply wipes and reinstalls. Student can only save to flash drives (which parents had to buy).
The parents signed a contract at the beginning of the period stating that if the laptop was lost or broken that the parent would pay for repairs or replacement. Insurance was available at modest cost. The laptop was carried with the student year after year. I believe these originally cost $1500 and my daughter used hers for 5 years before completing 8th grade and going to a different school.
The laptops stayed at the school during the summer, but the students could take them home when they had a project that required them. Any class could assign a project, but they were most heavily used by science, English, and Social Studies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Let me repeat it again and I'll stick to small words.
Even if the school wants to use the Volume Purchase Program which requires that each student has a separate ID under his/her control there is nothing to prevent parents of students under 12 (or even 18 if the parents wish) from setting up an ID the parents control on the child's behalf. THAT id would be used for redeeming the school provided codes and would belong to the child's authorized legal representative until such time as said party wishes to turn control over to the child. Problem for the school is solved. And zero need for anyone to limit what they do to any age audience.
Thank you for restating -- I understand your point much better now. Oh, no reason to be an ass about it either.
Doesn't change the fact that Apple's policy is for user to be 13 to create and *use* the account (despite other ways around it), and thus makes your scenario and edge case -- an edge case that makes it a remote possibility for publishers to want to put products into the market to fill that niche.