I'm hoping for a total collapse of the EURO soon, it's bound to happen sooner or later. They're living on borrowed time. The EURO is a failed experiment, and those European countries that haven't adopted the idiotic EURO are surely happy today.
It's not really the Euro (or any common form of currency) itself that's a problem but how it was applied:
Italy's beef is that Apple deliberately misled people about the 2 year warranty they were entitled to by law in order to make AppleCare more appealing. The current move is probably meant to show Apple that they mean business and they're not going to let them get away with it. And really, a company of Apple's size and clout should not be using such deceptive sales tactics, anyway, but at this point they're probably also concerned about saving face.
Is that one year warranty required by law or by a market place where the producer sees it as the sweet spot? If the former, yes. I buy products with a 90 day warranty. I weigh the risk/cost and the If I want a service plan or extended warranty I buy it. I almost always decline extended warranties when offered at checkout.
The issue is AppleCare, and presumably Apple's standard 1-year warranty covers more than what is required by law for two years of coverage. There is no easy sound-bite way to explain what each provides you, which makes it anti-Apple.
There might be a few exceptions-- how do you determine if a defective battery was a manufacturing defect or overuse/abuse?
This is required by law throughout the EU, as far as I know (certainly in Germany). Surely Apple's products are good enough to offer a 2 year warranty, right? Maybe the US should consider similar consumer protection standards.
Two year warranty is ok for the EU because it is a law. In the US products are not even required to have any warranty. The law states that if a company provides a warranty then there are regulations as to how it is to be written and advertised. The law is intended to promote competition by allowing companies to offer longer warranties as a means of adding value. An unintended consequence is that companies that offer longer warranties are generally viewed by the public as producing inferior products and only offer longer warranties to make their products more attractive. The one exception is those who offer lifetime warranties, although you might distrust advertising on an info-mercial for a a product you have never heard of. A one year warranty is considered normal in the US. Apple sells the extended warranty to people who think they want it not because they believe that Apple products might fail but generally because they think they are likely to somehow break it themselves. Even though Apple's extended warranty does not cover damage they generally are much more likely to replace damaged goods if the consumer purchased an extended warranty.
No you're not. The EU is in deep shit. I'm hoping for a total collapse of the EURO soon, it's bound to happen sooner or later. They're living on borrowed time. The EURO is a failed experiment, and those European countries that haven't adopted the idiotic EURO are surely happy today.
This is the best way for the US to shoot themselves in the foot : if Europe collapses, US goes under. Do you think sometimes before yelling ?
That's just what the EU needs right now; fewer jobs.
In other words, law and principle should bow to expediency and troubled people should knuckle under to whatever corporate overlord offers a few crumbs.
No doubt you're both Steinbeck's countrymen as well as one of his countless, clueless "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires." Remind me, what's the percentage by which your country's debt exceeds its GNP? I know it's well over a hundred, but having little talent for schadenfreude, I tend to suppress awareness of the actual number.
We fear for you. A people whose only principle is wealth will have neither.
Their "precious" (nice weasel word) law seems completely reasonable. Do you honestly think it is fair for a product to cease functioning only 13 months after it is sold to you? Are you that in defense of crappy manufacturing? And if you reply "Oh, Apple's quality is better than that; I'm not defending crap" then there should be no problem with Apple giving a 2-year warranty. You can't have it both ways. Either you're defending the indefensible or you're defending something that needs no defense whatsoever. Nobody opposing the EU 2-year warranty has a leg to stand on.
Honestly, no, I don't think it is acceptable for a product to cease functioning 13 months after I purchased it, and I was pretty pissed off when my iPhone 4 did stop working after 13 months (the sleep/wake button stopped working, and started leading to the phone freezing, and then I couldn't reset it until the battery went dead).
I was even more pissed off when I realized that it was a relatively common occurrence, at least from what I read on-line.
I did however buy another iPhone though, since my personal experience with Apple quality had been good. They're on their last chance though, if this one has a problem after 13 months, I'll switch manufacturer.
Effectively, the market would produce a solution. If Apples quality actually is crappy, I'll stop buying their stuff. So will most people. I'm from Europe, so believe in more government regulation than most of the Americans I now live amongst, but this is one area where I believe government isn't needed - the market could sort itself out.
They haven't complied in any meaningful way. They have hidden the consumer rights in inconspicuous hyper links.
When you start the checkout process for the iphone (on apple.it) and select your model you are then offered AppleCare which states the following
AppleCare Protection Plan
Service and support offered by the experts of the iPhone.
Every iPhone comes with a limited warranty of one year to cover the repair costs and up to 90 days for technical support *. AppleCare Protection Plan for iPhone extends your coverage to two years from date of purchase of the iPhone: *
At no point do they make it clear that the consumer actually has a free 2 year warranty, deciding instead to push the very profitable AppleCare. IMO Apple are wilfully continuing to break the law
Good catch. I think that this should be adequate to answer to oft-asked question of why Italy is doing this.
That is true. Apple could pull out of Italy completely, and it wouldn't make much of a difference.
The only practical way to do that would be to pull out of Europe completely, and that would make a difference to them.
However, it would make pretty much zero difference to the European economy. When all is said and done, Apple primarily sell products that are readily available from other vendors. Those of us who like Apple products would be upset by it I'm sure, but ultimately, it makes little difference whether one uses an iPhone or an Android phone. If the iPhone were no longer available, I'm sure the Italians would quickly adapt.
LMAO. So many tax law geniuses, and world economic experts posting here today.
I really enjoy the ones from the self-appointed gods & emperors of the world who issue their personal edict and judgement on every topic. I could run through the list and name all the pubes going off about social issues and evil countries or corporations. Though art omnipotent ! And probably impotent.
Do any of you actually have a paying job? Some real world experience? A bank account? A girlfriend? Who paid for your computer?
This is required by law throughout the EU, as far as I know (certainly in Germany). Surely Apple's products are good enough to offer a 2 year warranty, right? Maybe the US should consider similar consumer protection standards.
They do offer an extended warranty, but not for free.
well, I read all your comment and obviously the post.
I'm Italian and unfortunaly I've to say that the post is not so clear to correctly explain the conflict between AGCM and Apple.
In Italy (and I think in the whole EU) any product is covered by 1 year from the "producer", and another year from the product reseller (only for production issues).
The issue is so just referred to Apple Online Store and Apple Retail Store. In this cases AGCM "asked" Apple before selling to clearly explain to consumers/buyers this point and, right after that, Apple included the previously linked page with the Warranty Comparison with Apple Care solutions.
Right now, if your Mac broke after 1 year (but within the second one) and if you go to an Apple Store they will start trying to tell you that it's not covered bu if you argue that the AGCM states that it's your right they will repair it for free.
This is the problem. The lack of information and the "strange" (if it is) Apple behaviour.
What AGCM is stating now is that, because Apple didn't change anything referring consumer's information and clarification since the first request, (and in fact Apple Resellers still say that you have just one year warranty, but if you want more you have to pay), they are now just saying that even if you have more money than the entire Country, you are under the law.
Comments
Yeah they could do that in Italy and it shouldn't be as much as the separate AppleCare costs as everyone is being charged a premium.
It's not really the Euro (or any common form of currency) itself that's a problem but how it was applied:
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/05/the-difference-between-the-us-and-europe-in-1-graph/256857/
The people who suffer for it are not the people who made those decisions:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2143237/Mothers-forced-sell-children--human-toll-Euro-meltdown.html
so we shouldn't hope for it to fail but rather for the people who implemented it to be held accountable and for it to be implemented properly.
Italy's beef is that Apple deliberately misled people about the 2 year warranty they were entitled to by law in order to make AppleCare more appealing. The current move is probably meant to show Apple that they mean business and they're not going to let them get away with it. And really, a company of Apple's size and clout should not be using such deceptive sales tactics, anyway, but at this point they're probably also concerned about saving face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB
Is that one year warranty required by law or by a market place where the producer sees it as the sweet spot? If the former, yes. I buy products with a 90 day warranty. I weigh the risk/cost and the If I want a service plan or extended warranty I buy it. I almost always decline extended warranties when offered at checkout.
Fair enough. Thanks for the honesty.
There might be a few exceptions-- how do you determine if a defective battery was a manufacturing defect or overuse/abuse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBookAir
This is required by law throughout the EU, as far as I know (certainly in Germany). Surely Apple's products are good enough to offer a 2 year warranty, right? Maybe the US should consider similar consumer protection standards.
Two year warranty is ok for the EU because it is a law. In the US products are not even required to have any warranty. The law states that if a company provides a warranty then there are regulations as to how it is to be written and advertised. The law is intended to promote competition by allowing companies to offer longer warranties as a means of adding value. An unintended consequence is that companies that offer longer warranties are generally viewed by the public as producing inferior products and only offer longer warranties to make their products more attractive. The one exception is those who offer lifetime warranties, although you might distrust advertising on an info-mercial for a a product you have never heard of. A one year warranty is considered normal in the US. Apple sells the extended warranty to people who think they want it not because they believe that Apple products might fail but generally because they think they are likely to somehow break it themselves. Even though Apple's extended warranty does not cover damage they generally are much more likely to replace damaged goods if the consumer purchased an extended warranty.
Apple has to comply to the law as any other company selling products in Europe.
Luckily our own laws apply and not those of the U.S.
J.
Last time, I checked Bush created deficit was 5,1 trillion USD.
Total deficit : 14 trillion and counting. I admire the US, but not the mountain of debt they piled for themselves,
borrowing their future to China. May I remind you the US is bankrupt since last august ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
No you're not. The EU is in deep shit. I'm hoping for a total collapse of the EURO soon, it's bound to happen sooner or later. They're living on borrowed time. The EURO is a failed experiment, and those European countries that haven't adopted the idiotic EURO are surely happy today.
This is the best way for the US to shoot themselves in the foot : if Europe collapses, US goes under. Do you think sometimes before yelling ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Let 'em try.
That's just what the EU needs right now; fewer jobs.
In other words, law and principle should bow to expediency and troubled people should knuckle under to whatever corporate overlord offers a few crumbs.
No doubt you're both Steinbeck's countrymen as well as one of his countless, clueless "temporarily inconvenienced millionaires." Remind me, what's the percentage by which your country's debt exceeds its GNP? I know it's well over a hundred, but having little talent for schadenfreude, I tend to suppress awareness of the actual number.
We fear for you. A people whose only principle is wealth will have neither.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe
Their "precious" (nice weasel word) law seems completely reasonable. Do you honestly think it is fair for a product to cease functioning only 13 months after it is sold to you? Are you that in defense of crappy manufacturing? And if you reply "Oh, Apple's quality is better than that; I'm not defending crap" then there should be no problem with Apple giving a 2-year warranty. You can't have it both ways. Either you're defending the indefensible or you're defending something that needs no defense whatsoever. Nobody opposing the EU 2-year warranty has a leg to stand on.
Honestly, no, I don't think it is acceptable for a product to cease functioning 13 months after I purchased it, and I was pretty pissed off when my iPhone 4 did stop working after 13 months (the sleep/wake button stopped working, and started leading to the phone freezing, and then I couldn't reset it until the battery went dead).
I was even more pissed off when I realized that it was a relatively common occurrence, at least from what I read on-line.
I did however buy another iPhone though, since my personal experience with Apple quality had been good. They're on their last chance though, if this one has a problem after 13 months, I'll switch manufacturer.
Effectively, the market would produce a solution. If Apples quality actually is crappy, I'll stop buying their stuff. So will most people. I'm from Europe, so believe in more government regulation than most of the Americans I now live amongst, but this is one area where I believe government isn't needed - the market could sort itself out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover
They haven't complied in any meaningful way. They have hidden the consumer rights in inconspicuous hyper links.
When you start the checkout process for the iphone (on apple.it) and select your model you are then offered AppleCare which states the following
AppleCare Protection Plan
Service and support offered by the experts of the iPhone.
Every iPhone comes with a limited warranty of one year to cover the repair costs and up to 90 days for technical support *. AppleCare Protection Plan for iPhone extends your coverage to two years from date of purchase of the iPhone: *
At no point do they make it clear that the consumer actually has a free 2 year warranty, deciding instead to push the very profitable AppleCare. IMO Apple are wilfully continuing to break the law
Good catch. I think that this should be adequate to answer to oft-asked question of why Italy is doing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
That is true. Apple could pull out of Italy completely, and it wouldn't make much of a difference.
The only practical way to do that would be to pull out of Europe completely, and that would make a difference to them.
However, it would make pretty much zero difference to the European economy. When all is said and done, Apple primarily sell products that are readily available from other vendors. Those of us who like Apple products would be upset by it I'm sure, but ultimately, it makes little difference whether one uses an iPhone or an Android phone. If the iPhone were no longer available, I'm sure the Italians would quickly adapt.
LMAO. So many tax law geniuses, and world economic experts posting here today.
I really enjoy the ones from the self-appointed gods & emperors of the world who issue their personal edict and judgement on every topic. I could run through the list and name all the pubes going off about social issues and evil countries or corporations. Though art omnipotent ! And probably impotent.
Do any of you actually have a paying job? Some real world experience? A bank account? A girlfriend? Who paid for your computer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
There's a fundamental difference that makes the US unable to collapse.
And that is .....?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBookAir
This is required by law throughout the EU, as far as I know (certainly in Germany). Surely Apple's products are good enough to offer a 2 year warranty, right? Maybe the US should consider similar consumer protection standards.
They do offer an extended warranty, but not for free.
http://www.apple.com/support/products/
Besides, the length of a warranty should be something that companies offer in response to competition, not because a government body demands it.
well, I read all your comment and obviously the post.
I'm Italian and unfortunaly I've to say that the post is not so clear to correctly explain the conflict between AGCM and Apple.
In Italy (and I think in the whole EU) any product is covered by 1 year from the "producer", and another year from the product reseller (only for production issues).
The issue is so just referred to Apple Online Store and Apple Retail Store. In this cases AGCM "asked" Apple before selling to clearly explain to consumers/buyers this point and, right after that, Apple included the previously linked page with the Warranty Comparison with Apple Care solutions.
Right now, if your Mac broke after 1 year (but within the second one) and if you go to an Apple Store they will start trying to tell you that it's not covered bu if you argue that the AGCM states that it's your right they will repair it for free.
This is the problem. The lack of information and the "strange" (if it is) Apple behaviour.
What AGCM is stating now is that, because Apple didn't change anything referring consumer's information and clarification since the first request, (and in fact Apple Resellers still say that you have just one year warranty, but if you want more you have to pay), they are now just saying that even if you have more money than the entire Country, you are under the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul
Raise the European price and include the two year warranty, problem solved.
Exactly.
TANSTAAFL after all. Would be very salutary for the Euros to learn that.
* Looks down at his 'Foreign country is mean to Apple' AI thread bingo card. *
Bingo!