LMFAO oh let me catch my breath...... I needed that laugh.
So please enlighten the us as to why the eu is the laughing stock of the financial systems of first world countries.... I don't remember any American stats asking for bailouts.
So pompous......
Run along now, the IMF Called your number again, looks like more money is ready for you.
Edit--
and-any
you live in a country(US) that has 120 trillions in debt and go by thanks to China footing your bills, as the French prime minister once said the US has to keep is mouth shut at all time because you are in worse shape than all EU countries combined.
you live in a country(US) that has 120 trillions in debt and go by thanks to China footing your bills, as the French prime minister once said the US has to keep is mouth shut at all time because you are in worse shape than all EU countries combined.
Let's face it, all governments are run by idiots for idiots.
If it were to become EU wide, then I agree with the other posters who stated that Apple should just jack up their prices even more for EU people. Too bad for them.
I'm not a EU state and I do not have any such reservations about not gloating over the misfortune of others. As for who is right, time will provide us the answer to that question. Bailout after bailout is just delaying the inevitable.
I wouldn't have believed that you are "a EU state" (sic).
I do however believe that you might be the embodiment of everything that is wrong with care in the community.
Maybe someone else already mentioned it in the comments, but just to clarify: There are two different levels of warranty in the EU. The first level is some kind of minimum requirement and is mandatory for 2 years after purchase. In German it is called "Gewährleistung". But many companies offer an extented form of guarantee (in German "Garantie"), which goes beyond the minimum requirements. And many companies ask for extra money for this "Garantie". One quick example I can think of now is the extented telephone support you get with Apple Care. A laywer might better explain the differences between "Garantie" and "Gewährleistung", especially with Apple's case. I think the Italian consumer organization complained that Apple did not make it clear enough AppleCare is an extented form of warranty
Most of the members posting here seem to be unaware of the fact that most consumer protection agencies will contact an organisation first and ask them to make amendments. Litigation is normally the last resort.
I do not pretend to have any inside knowledge of the chain of events but the fact that Apple are still refusing to comply with a judicial ruling would suggest that they equally refused to comply with the initial requests to make amendments. This seems to mirror the Australian 4G case, Apple were asked to make changes, they refused and presented some spurious arguments that were rejected by the Australian courts.
I guess that one big problem that thus far has been overlooked is that Apple relying exclusively on resellers in Italy still wouldn't let them off the hook. The UK Sale of Goods Act and the EU directive work on a chain principle, if the consumer claims against the seller, they in turn can claim against the wholesaler who can then claim against the manufacturer.
I'm not a EU state and I do not have any such reservations about not gloating over the misfortune of others. As for who is right, time will provide us the answer to that question. Bailout after bailout is just delaying the inevitable.
I don't need to quote any of your previous posts because they are too numerous to mention, but you have repeatedly stated how much you are entertained by the misfortune of others who either have different viewpoints or different culture, so your statement above has absolutely no credibility as does the entirety of your post history.
Their "precious" (nice weasel word) law seems completely reasonable. Do you honestly think it is fair for a product to cease functioning only 13 months after it is sold to you? Are you that in defense of crappy manufacturing?
Prove that it was crappy manufacturing and thus was there when you bought it. Guess what, the EU law covers that.
But most of the time it wasn't, it was wear and tear. it was the laptop or whatever falling onto the carpet so the enclosure is fine but something inside isn't, etc. Under the EU law, Apple does't have to cover that and the burden of prove is on you the buyer to prove that it was crappy manufacturing. But if you have Apple Care all Apple cares about is known or obvious damage like water in the computer or a shattered screen. Otherwise they assume defect and fix it.
Italy's beef is that Apple deliberately misled people about the 2 year warranty they were entitled to by law in order to make AppleCare more appealing.
Apple Care already is more appealing due to the actual rights consumers have under that law, which isn't very much after the first six months or so.
And since we don't have video of every single transaction in all the stores in Italy we can't really say that no one is telling customers or not telling them about this whole 2 year thing.
Service and support offered by the experts of the iPhone.
Every iPhone comes with a limited warranty of one year to cover the repair costs
That is regardless of when the defect occurred. the EU law is only applicable if the defect was present at time of purchase. And after the first 3-6 months (depending on the country) you have to prove it was there the whole time, which no one typically can so they are screwed. Apple under their warranty is a honey badger. if it isn't obvious damage then they don't give a s*** when the defect happened if you are in that one year or you got Apple Care
That they don't care is why friends of mine have pulled day 360 stunts like putting their phones in a microwave for like 3 seconds or opening up the back to use an eyedropper and put water on the connectors without hitting those little white dots all to have a phone that suddenly won't turn on. Then they get a brand new phone they sell on ebay to help pay the added cost of buying a phone before their contract is up cause they have to always have the newest one.
Says the guy linving in a country with a debt of 130% of GNP.
We're doing ok in the EU.Mind your own business
The US public debt is rather around 102% of GDP.
Comparing it to nowadays Spain (public debt of 62% of GDP) or France (85.8%) there would be indeed nothing to brag about, moreover because they have at least something for their taxes (top notch infrastructure, 1st rank health care, cheap access to education, etc).
Prove that it was crappy manufacturing and thus was there when you bought it. Guess what, the EU law covers that.
But most of the time it wasn't, it was wear and tear. it was the laptop or whatever falling onto the carpet so the enclosure is fine but something inside isn't, etc. Under the EU law, Apple does't have to cover that and the burden of prove is on you the buyer to prove that it was crappy manufacturing. But if you have Apple Care all Apple cares about is known or obvious damage like water in the computer or a shattered screen. Otherwise they assume defect and fix it.
That's more of a gray area. For instance in the uk if you drop your phone a few times it would have to covered by the standard warranty as its a reasonable expected thing that could happen to a phone. The warranty has to cover for the object being used and still working. But the EU may be different as we have are own warranty laws as well as the EU ones. In the uk the required warranty period is also described as being whatever is reasonable so that depending what it is it could be a few weeks or indeed a few years.
Personally I think apple should just stop messing around and follow the rules. They have bigger profit margins than there competitors, there charging a higher price than there competitors, and there competitors are all giving away 2 year warranties. They don't need to raise prices to include apple care, they must need to stop being so stingy and follow the same rules as everyone else.
And since we don't have video of every single transaction in all the stores in Italy we can't really say that no one is telling customers or not telling them about this whole 2 year thing.
???
Why would you need documentary proof of every transaction? Your next post partially re-quotes the section on the Apple Italy site that clearly demonstrates that Apple are breaking the law. Even if the in-store staff were being honest, Apple Italy as a whole are not.
Regardless of whether you agree with the EU directive or not Apple are wilfully breaking the law in Italy, there is no grey area. Apple could have used the excuse that they didn't understand the law when first approached but we have gone far past that point now.
That is regardless of when the defect occurred. the EU law is only applicable if the defect was present at time of purchase. And after the first 3-6 months (depending on the country) you have to prove it was there the whole time, which no one typically can so they are screwed. Apple under their warranty is a honey badger. if it isn't obvious damage then they don't give a s*** when the defect happened if you are in that one year or you got Apple Care
That they don't care is why friends of mine have pulled day 360 stunts like putting their phones in a microwave for like 3 seconds or opening up the back to use an eyedropper and put water on the connectors without hitting those little white dots all to have a phone that suddenly won't turn on. Then they get a brand new phone they sell on ebay to help pay the added cost of buying a phone before their contract is up cause they have to always have the newest one.
Why do you assume that Apple are special? If I go to an Italian store and buy a HTC, for example, the EU directive covers me for 2 years but the HTC warranty also explicitly offers me 2 years at no extra cost. Assuming that the any defect is not normal wear and tear or the result of damage I am entitled to a free unconditional repair without having to prove that the fault was the result of manufacture.
I used HTC as an example but some, such as, Belkin offer lifetime warranties.
The primary advantage of AppleCare type insurance policies is the added extended telephone support (which doesn't cover Siri-esque beta/v1.0/v2.0 software) but when it comes down to it how many owners are so unfamiliar with their handsets that they need to phone Apple in the second year? I suspect that most users seek advice from elsewhere first..
If I am concerned about accidental damage or theft I am probably better off with 3rd party insurance.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyPaul
Raise the European price and include the two year warranty, problem solved.
just manufacture products that last 2 years instead that products that break after 1 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Market_Player
LMFAO oh let me catch my breath...... I needed that laugh.
So please enlighten the us as to why the eu is the laughing stock of the financial systems of first world countries.... I don't remember any American stats asking for bailouts.
So pompous......
Run along now, the IMF Called your number again, looks like more money is ready for you.
Edit--
and-any
you live in a country(US) that has 120 trillions in debt and go by thanks to China footing your bills, as the French prime minister once said the US has to keep is mouth shut at all time because you are in worse shape than all EU countries combined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylove22
you live in a country(US) that has 120 trillions in debt and go by thanks to China footing your bills, as the French prime minister once said the US has to keep is mouth shut at all time because you are in worse shape than all EU countries combined.
Let's face it, all governments are run by idiots for idiots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA
Not that it matters that much but you seem to have added an extra zero.
What's an order of magnitude among friends?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
If it were to become EU wide, then I agree with the other posters who stated that Apple should just jack up their prices even more for EU people. Too bad for them.
Exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristophB
What's an order of magnitude among friends?
I suppose since it will never be "repaid" anyway...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
I'm not a EU state and I do not have any such reservations about not gloating over the misfortune of others. As for who is right, time will provide us the answer to that question. Bailout after bailout is just delaying the inevitable.
I wouldn't have believed that you are "a EU state" (sic).
I do however believe that you might be the embodiment of everything that is wrong with care in the community.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
I suppose since it will never be "repaid" anyway...
What's sad is. . . the U.S. is probably still the safest bet. I think it's a race to tank last with the Swiss winning. Let's see if they can keep it.
There are two different levels of warranty in the EU. The first level is some kind of minimum requirement and is mandatory for 2 years after purchase. In German it is called "Gewährleistung". But many companies offer an extented form of guarantee (in German "Garantie"), which goes beyond the minimum requirements. And many companies ask for extra money for this "Garantie".
One quick example I can think of now is the extented telephone support you get with Apple Care.
A laywer might better explain the differences between "Garantie" and "Gewährleistung", especially with Apple's case.
I think the Italian consumer organization complained that Apple did not make it clear enough AppleCare is an extented form of warranty
Most of the members posting here seem to be unaware of the fact that most consumer protection agencies will contact an organisation first and ask them to make amendments. Litigation is normally the last resort.
I do not pretend to have any inside knowledge of the chain of events but the fact that Apple are still refusing to comply with a judicial ruling would suggest that they equally refused to comply with the initial requests to make amendments. This seems to mirror the Australian 4G case, Apple were asked to make changes, they refused and presented some spurious arguments that were rejected by the Australian courts.
I guess that one big problem that thus far has been overlooked is that Apple relying exclusively on resellers in Italy still wouldn't let them off the hook. The UK Sale of Goods Act and the EU directive work on a chain principle, if the consumer claims against the seller, they in turn can claim against the wholesaler who can then claim against the manufacturer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
I'm not a EU state and I do not have any such reservations about not gloating over the misfortune of others. As for who is right, time will provide us the answer to that question. Bailout after bailout is just delaying the inevitable.
I don't need to quote any of your previous posts because they are too numerous to mention, but you have repeatedly stated how much you are entertained by the misfortune of others who either have different viewpoints or different culture, so your statement above has absolutely no credibility as does the entirety of your post history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe
Their "precious" (nice weasel word) law seems completely reasonable. Do you honestly think it is fair for a product to cease functioning only 13 months after it is sold to you? Are you that in defense of crappy manufacturing?
Prove that it was crappy manufacturing and thus was there when you bought it. Guess what, the EU law covers that.
But most of the time it wasn't, it was wear and tear. it was the laptop or whatever falling onto the carpet so the enclosure is fine but something inside isn't, etc. Under the EU law, Apple does't have to cover that and the burden of prove is on you the buyer to prove that it was crappy manufacturing. But if you have Apple Care all Apple cares about is known or obvious damage like water in the computer or a shattered screen. Otherwise they assume defect and fix it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin
Italy's beef is that Apple deliberately misled people about the 2 year warranty they were entitled to by law in order to make AppleCare more appealing.
Apple Care already is more appealing due to the actual rights consumers have under that law, which isn't very much after the first six months or so.
And since we don't have video of every single transaction in all the stores in Italy we can't really say that no one is telling customers or not telling them about this whole 2 year thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover
Service and support offered by the experts of the iPhone.
Every iPhone comes with a limited warranty of one year to cover the repair costs
That is regardless of when the defect occurred. the EU law is only applicable if the defect was present at time of purchase. And after the first 3-6 months (depending on the country) you have to prove it was there the whole time, which no one typically can so they are screwed. Apple under their warranty is a honey badger. if it isn't obvious damage then they don't give a s*** when the defect happened if you are in that one year or you got Apple Care
That they don't care is why friends of mine have pulled day 360 stunts like putting their phones in a microwave for like 3 seconds or opening up the back to use an eyedropper and put water on the connectors without hitting those little white dots all to have a phone that suddenly won't turn on. Then they get a brand new phone they sell on ebay to help pay the added cost of buying a phone before their contract is up cause they have to always have the newest one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations
Italy needs Apple FAR MORE than Apple needs Italy.
Sure... not having Apple is Italy's largest problem.
/sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1
Says the guy linving in a country with a debt of 130% of GNP.
We're doing ok in the EU.Mind your own business
The US public debt is rather around 102% of GDP.
Comparing it to nowadays Spain (public debt of 62% of GDP) or France (85.8%) there would be indeed nothing to brag about, moreover because they have at least something for their taxes (top notch infrastructure, 1st rank health care, cheap access to education, etc).
Personally I think apple should just stop messing around and follow the rules. They have bigger profit margins than there competitors, there charging a higher price than there competitors, and there competitors are all giving away 2 year warranties. They don't need to raise prices to include apple care, they must need to stop being so stingy and follow the same rules as everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
And since we don't have video of every single transaction in all the stores in Italy we can't really say that no one is telling customers or not telling them about this whole 2 year thing.
???
Why would you need documentary proof of every transaction? Your next post partially re-quotes the section on the Apple Italy site that clearly demonstrates that Apple are breaking the law. Even if the in-store staff were being honest, Apple Italy as a whole are not.
Regardless of whether you agree with the EU directive or not Apple are wilfully breaking the law in Italy, there is no grey area. Apple could have used the excuse that they didn't understand the law when first approached but we have gone far past that point now.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
That is regardless of when the defect occurred. the EU law is only applicable if the defect was present at time of purchase. And after the first 3-6 months (depending on the country) you have to prove it was there the whole time, which no one typically can so they are screwed. Apple under their warranty is a honey badger. if it isn't obvious damage then they don't give a s*** when the defect happened if you are in that one year or you got Apple Care
That they don't care is why friends of mine have pulled day 360 stunts like putting their phones in a microwave for like 3 seconds or opening up the back to use an eyedropper and put water on the connectors without hitting those little white dots all to have a phone that suddenly won't turn on. Then they get a brand new phone they sell on ebay to help pay the added cost of buying a phone before their contract is up cause they have to always have the newest one.
Why do you assume that Apple are special? If I go to an Italian store and buy a HTC, for example, the EU directive covers me for 2 years but the HTC warranty also explicitly offers me 2 years at no extra cost. Assuming that the any defect is not normal wear and tear or the result of damage I am entitled to a free unconditional repair without having to prove that the fault was the result of manufacture.
I used HTC as an example but some, such as, Belkin offer lifetime warranties.
The primary advantage of AppleCare type insurance policies is the added extended telephone support (which doesn't cover Siri-esque beta/v1.0/v2.0 software) but when it comes down to it how many owners are so unfamiliar with their handsets that they need to phone Apple in the second year? I suspect that most users seek advice from elsewhere first..
If I am concerned about accidental damage or theft I am probably better off with 3rd party insurance.