What if this device exists and is a compliment to (controller for) the Apple TV? Others have asked the question previously. It could then be an iPad by stealth and an iPod growing up.
I believe this is exactly what this device is for.
The reason it would work is because if they do as expected all the iPad 2 app's will work perfectly on it from day one - which means games, games, games galore - oh and a few eBooks of course.
How can all apps work perfectly when they are shrunk down into about 65% of the original screen real estate? For some apps, this will be a very bad thing. Read Steve Jobs' quote again and think about the ramifications.
Didn't Jobs say you would need sandpaper? will these ship with sandpaper for your fingers or will that cost extra?Apple was very vocal about the current size of ipad being optimal and a smaller one wasn't going to happen. I think this is just another rumour that won't pan out.
In reference to using a UI for a 10" tablet on a display with half the way area. Note that Apple first made the iPhone and iPod Touch with a 3.5" display and no sandpaper is needed for that because the UI is designed for the display and input method.
I don't recall Jobs ever saying it would never happen but it certainly won't happen without making the primary I/O ideal for the user. And just because the 10" is an ideal size doesn't mean that you can't have other sizes that fill a somewhat less ideal market segment once you near saturating the ideal market segment. They did with the iPod in size/capabilities, and the Mac and iPhone with price points.
I am suspicious that alot of the supporters of the mini ipad are also pro android in other threads.
Could it be that if apple release a mini ipad they can . . .
Say Apple is copying samsung, google, amazon etc and will bleat about it forevermore?
Know that it will take away sales of the larger ipad?
Be against steve jobs' advice and make him look untruthful or wrong, and thus reflect badly on him, Tim Cook and Apple?
I agree. The spirit of Jobs is alive and well at Apple and i don't see them taking such a step. Why even permit such a concession when the bank is full and others are needed to store the growing wealth? It is just a rumour to get peoples attention. Apple stands alone at the pinnacle and is in no way threatened by these cheap 7" crows.
Or perhaps this is not about trying to compete with crap like Kindle and Nexus 7. Perhaps it's about the fact that a large market of people want an iPad style device (from Apple) but want a smaller form factor which would make it easier to transport and carry around. iPad is great, but it is rather big for constant every day use.
I would certainly buy a 7.75" iPad just because it would be great size for me.
Same here, plus I'll go out on a limb (again) and say that many females would like one to carry in their purse although I'm postulating based on a survey sample size of one.
Steve Jobs quote, October 2010:
If you take an iPad and hold it upright in portrait view and draw an imaginary horizontal line halfway down the screen, the screens on these 7-inch tablets are a bit smaller than the bottom half of the ipad’s display. This size isn’t sufficient to create great tablet apps in our opinion. While one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference, it is meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of their present size.
Apple has done extensive user testing on touch interfaces over many years and we really understand this stuff. There are clear limits of how close you can physically place elements on a touchscreen before users cannot reliably tap, flick, or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps… The 7-inch tablets are tweeners. Too big to compete with a smartphone and too small to compete with an iPad.
These are among the reasons we think the current crop of 7-inch tablets are going to be DOA. Dead On Arrival. Their manufacturers will learn the painful lesson that their tablets are too small and increase the size next year, thereby abandoning both customers and developers who jumped on the 7-inch bandwagon with an orphaned product.
One of the dumbest quotes Jobs ever made. But I'd like to point out two things.
1- How do you explain apps for my iPhone and iPod touch that I use and work just fine?
2- Contrary to popular opinion, Steve Jobs is dead. So if the new regime wants it, they can do it over Steves dead body- literally.
Odds are it would just be 1024x768 for obvious compatibility. PPI varies based on distance to face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoradala
I think it's more likely they drop the price of the ipad2 to $300.
That would make the competition sweat.
Not really. There are a variety of reasons why that wouldn't work. The obvious point is for a smaller sized tablet for which there appears to be a market for, but no one's properly executed yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbriton
Steve Jobs quote, October 2010:
If you take an iPad and hold it upright in portrait view and draw an imaginary horizontal line halfway down the screen, the screens on these 7-inch tablets are a bit smaller than the bottom half of the ipad’s display. This size isn’t sufficient to create great tablet apps in our opinion. While one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference, it is meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of their present size.
Apple has done extensive user testing on touch interfaces over many years and we really understand this stuff. There are clear limits of how close you can physically place elements on a touchscreen before users cannot reliably tap, flick, or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps… The 7-inch tablets are tweeners. Too big to compete with a smartphone and too small to compete with an iPad.
Yeah, we know how well Steve thought one size fits all. Steve laughed at 'hummer phones' and now all phones except the iPhone have bigger screens and the next one seems to be going in the same direction. Never say never.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
And they can't simply drop the iPad 2 to $299. First, margins would stink. Second, that lowers the perceived value of a 10" tablet - which would impact the new iPad, as well.
Agreed. Also it doesn't address the smaller tablet concept.
My biggest question, Wifi only? or Cellular options?
Since iOS6 still supports the iPhone 3GS, I don't see production stopping anytime soon.
Does production revolve around iOS versions? I seem to recall that the first iPhone production completely stop with sales drying up for about 6 weeks before the launch of the iPhone 3G and yet it got rich updates for 3 years.
One of the dumbest quotes Jobs ever made. But I'd like to point out two things.
1- How do you explain apps for my iPhone and iPod touch that I use and work just fine?
2- Contrary to popular opinion, Steve Jobs is dead. So if the new regime wants it, they can do it over Steves dead body- literally.
If you doubt the advice of the late great Steve Jobs i refer you to the current standing of Adobe Flash and the recent announcement of its complete drop from mobile devices. Don't mess with the ones who know (or knew. RIP Mr. Jobs. you will be missed).
One of the dumbest quotes Jobs ever made. But I'd like to point out two things.
1- How do you explain apps for my iPhone and iPod touch that I use and work just fine?
2- Contrary to popular opinion, Steve Jobs is dead. So if the new regime wants it, they can do it over Steves dead body- literally.
Huh? How do you explain apps that work across your iPhone and iPod Touch when they have the same size display, or how to you explain apps for the iPhone/Touch that have 1x or 2x scaling on the iPad? The former makes no fucking sense and the latter should be obvious since it's a larger display, not one that is nearly half the size. Note that iPhone/Touch apps look like shit on the iPad and that you can't run iPad apps on the iPhone/Touch. Jobs was right and you relishing in his death doesn't make him any less correct; when you take elements design for a certain size and shrink them enough they reduce the usability, user experience, and eventually it just becomes pointless.
Perhaps I should have said "a seven inch device"! I agree with you, but also think this market is so new that Apple will be watching carefully. It might turn out that some people want a pure consumption device, an iTunes Pad perhaps. I still think it's feasible that they are experimenting, but that doesn't mean it will see the light of day.
That size would be better for travelers. I'd like more readable area than my iPhone but something less cumbersome than my iPad for wandering city streets when visiting other cities. Jacket pocket sized rather than briefcase sized (or dispatch case or small messenger bag etc.).
when you take elements design for a certain size and shrink them enough they reduce the usability, user experience, and eventually it just becomes pointless.
As with the rMBP when you use the more space option the desktop is unusable. It is a transitional period in that as more apps are reworked for the high resolution the practicality of the screen is increased. It is sort of a chicken and egg situation. At first, shrunk apps will look bad but workable as will scaled up apps. If they release a 7" iPad the developers will quickly adapt.
Cellular option is a must since it is perceived as being even more portable than the iPad.
The Nexus 7 not having that option is a big negative in my opinion.
But that is costly. You're talking about a 50% increase in the sale price. Perhaps less since Google isn't about having any margin on the Nexus 7, as if that makes sense.
I think this is smart on Google's part. They need to keep it simple for now. If it catches on then they can offer one with cellular chips that is larger, heavier, and costlier. Right now people, especially those in the Android camp, would any cellular capable model to have the bestest LTE in the whole wide world but that adds a lot of issues for this cheap device.
On top of that, I bet a lot of those interested in this device probably have an smartphone already that they can tether with without the cost of a separate data charge. You aren't buying a $200 tablet because you want the best tablet or the most convenience; you buy it because you want something economical.
The iPad is the equivalent to the 15" mbp and the smaller pad-to-be, will be the equivalent to the 13" mbp, in terms of use and functionality. To start with all iPhone OR iPad, OR both(!), apps will run on the new device but will not be optimized. After a year a whole new ecosystem will be well established. Count me in for at least one right off the bat, though 8 gb will be too little. If it starts with 8gb my guess is that in no time it will be discontinued. A medium sized device will excel at gaming and gamers need storage.
My prediction is that a medium sized device will arrive before the holiday season and will be a runaway success from the get-go.
As with the rMBP when you use the more space option the desktop is unusable. It is a transitional period in that as more apps are reworked for the high resolution the practicality of the screen is increased. It is sort of a chicken and egg situation. At first, shrunk apps will look bad but workable as will scaled up apps. If they release a 7" iPad the developers will quickly adapt.
Mac OS and iOS and fundamentally different. Regardless of what which of the current 15" MBPs you use the mouse pointer is essentially the same size. The user interacts with the trackpad (or mouse) not the display. iOS uses CocoaTouch for iDevices. This means that the size of the virtual elements are meaningful outside one's vision. If they release a different size touch display they will have an idealized UI and a new SDK that will allow devs to take advantage of these UI changes.
But that is costly. You're talking about a 50% increase in the sale price. Perhaps less since Google isn't about having any margin on the Nexus 7, as if that makes sense.
I think this is smart on Google's part. They need to keep it simple for now. If it catches on then they can offer one with cellular chips that is larger, heavier, and costlier. Right now people, especially those in the Android camp, would any cellular capable model to have the bestest LTE in the whole wide world but that adds a lot of issues for this cheap device.
On top of that, I bet a lot of those interested in this device probably have an smartphone already that they can tether with without the cost of a separate data charge. You aren't buying a $200 tablet because you want the best tablet or the most convenience; you buy it because you want something economical.
I suppose it makes sense. Tethering is a hassle and on AT&T they charge for it so the service cost is a wash. The added cost of the device is ok for Apple because their clientele generally has the disposable income evidenced by the high capacity expensive models selling well. Google's target market is probably El cheapo basement dwellers so they only need Wi-Fi.
One of the dumbest quotes Jobs ever made. But I'd like to point out two things.
1- How do you explain apps for my iPhone and iPod touch that I use and work just fine?
By pointing out those aren't tablet apps? I can use Pages on my iPhone, but it sucks compared to on my iPad. I can browse and read on my iPhone, but again it sucks compared to my iPad. Same with movies, my graphing software, and with my sketching software.
There is plenty the iPhone and iPod do well, plenty that OS X does well, but there is some stuff that is perfectly suited for a tablet and not done as well on other hardware. Can those tasks be accomplished on a 7-8 inch iPad? Sure, but I doubt as well as on the 10-11" ones. But I'll reserve judgment until I actually see how the mini tablets perform. So far there has been nothing impressive on the market.
As for reading, the closest thing to an actual paper in size seems ideal to me. Back in the 30s they had pocket size books, those have pretty much vanished from the market today. Turns out the mini format wasn't very practical and ideal even though there was a small fashion for it. You don't want to text to be too small to read extensively on the device, and you don't want to have to resort to constant scrolling. So again there seems to be an ideal size. Yes they can tweak that to add extra pages, but then you are constantly flipping pages every 10 seconds, which again is annoying. The point is I'm worried the 7 inchers will end up being trouble in the long run.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo
What if this device exists and is a compliment to (controller for) the Apple TV? Others have asked the question previously. It could then be an iPad by stealth and an iPod growing up.
I believe this is exactly what this device is for.
Agreed. There's definitely demand from consumers for this form factor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK
The reason it would work is because if they do as expected all the iPad 2 app's will work perfectly on it from day one - which means games, games, games galore - oh and a few eBooks of course.
How can all apps work perfectly when they are shrunk down into about 65% of the original screen real estate? For some apps, this will be a very bad thing. Read Steve Jobs' quote again and think about the ramifications.
In reference to using a UI for a 10" tablet on a display with half the way area. Note that Apple first made the iPhone and iPod Touch with a 3.5" display and no sandpaper is needed for that because the UI is designed for the display and input method.
I don't recall Jobs ever saying it would never happen but it certainly won't happen without making the primary I/O ideal for the user. And just because the 10" is an ideal size doesn't mean that you can't have other sizes that fill a somewhat less ideal market segment once you near saturating the ideal market segment. They did with the iPod in size/capabilities, and the Mac and iPhone with price points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoradala
I am suspicious that alot of the supporters of the mini ipad are also pro android in other threads.
Could it be that if apple release a mini ipad they can . . .
Say Apple is copying samsung, google, amazon etc and will bleat about it forevermore?
Know that it will take away sales of the larger ipad?
Be against steve jobs' advice and make him look untruthful or wrong, and thus reflect badly on him, Tim Cook and Apple?
I agree. The spirit of Jobs is alive and well at Apple and i don't see them taking such a step. Why even permit such a concession when the bank is full and others are needed to store the growing wealth? It is just a rumour to get peoples attention. Apple stands alone at the pinnacle and is in no way threatened by these cheap 7" crows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J
Or perhaps this is not about trying to compete with crap like Kindle and Nexus 7. Perhaps it's about the fact that a large market of people want an iPad style device (from Apple) but want a smaller form factor which would make it easier to transport and carry around. iPad is great, but it is rather big for constant every day use.
I would certainly buy a 7.75" iPad just because it would be great size for me.
Same here, plus I'll go out on a limb (again) and say that many females would like one to carry in their purse although I'm postulating based on a survey sample size of one.
Looking back now I think now it was a good idea not to waste time and our money on a Blu-ray player. Hell, nobody is buying them anyway.
One of the dumbest quotes Jobs ever made. But I'd like to point out two things.
1- How do you explain apps for my iPhone and iPod touch that I use and work just fine?
2- Contrary to popular opinion, Steve Jobs is dead. So if the new regime wants it, they can do it over Steves dead body- literally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by logandigges
No. No, no, no. No iPad Mini. Not very Apple-esque. You better agree.
..or you'll do what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnielse
In order to reach that pixel density it needs to have the same resolution as The New iPad.
A 7.85 inch screen needs approximately 2048x1536 pixels to reach 330 ppi. Check for yourself: http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html
Odds are it would just be 1024x768 for obvious compatibility. PPI varies based on distance to face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by amoradala
I think it's more likely they drop the price of the ipad2 to $300.
That would make the competition sweat.
Not really. There are a variety of reasons why that wouldn't work. The obvious point is for a smaller sized tablet for which there appears to be a market for, but no one's properly executed yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbriton
Steve Jobs quote, October 2010:
If you take an iPad and hold it upright in portrait view and draw an imaginary horizontal line halfway down the screen, the screens on these 7-inch tablets are a bit smaller than the bottom half of the ipad’s display. This size isn’t sufficient to create great tablet apps in our opinion. While one could increase the resolution of the display to make up for some of the difference, it is meaningless unless your tablet also includes sandpaper, so that the user can sand down their fingers to around one quarter of their present size.
Apple has done extensive user testing on touch interfaces over many years and we really understand this stuff. There are clear limits of how close you can physically place elements on a touchscreen before users cannot reliably tap, flick, or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps… The 7-inch tablets are tweeners. Too big to compete with a smartphone and too small to compete with an iPad.
Yeah, we know how well Steve thought one size fits all. Steve laughed at 'hummer phones' and now all phones except the iPhone have bigger screens and the next one seems to be going in the same direction. Never say never.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
And they can't simply drop the iPad 2 to $299. First, margins would stink. Second, that lowers the perceived value of a 10" tablet - which would impact the new iPad, as well.
Agreed. Also it doesn't address the smaller tablet concept.
My biggest question, Wifi only? or Cellular options?
Does production revolve around iOS versions? I seem to recall that the first iPhone production completely stop with sales drying up for about 6 weeks before the launch of the iPhone 3G and yet it got rich updates for 3 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
One of the dumbest quotes Jobs ever made. But I'd like to point out two things.
1- How do you explain apps for my iPhone and iPod touch that I use and work just fine?
2- Contrary to popular opinion, Steve Jobs is dead. So if the new regime wants it, they can do it over Steves dead body- literally.
If you doubt the advice of the late great Steve Jobs i refer you to the current standing of Adobe Flash and the recent announcement of its complete drop from mobile devices. Don't mess with the ones who know (or knew. RIP Mr. Jobs. you will be missed).
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
My biggest question, Wifi only? or Cellular options?
Cellular option is a must since it is perceived as being even more portable than the iPad.
The Nexus 7 not having that option is a big negative in my opinion.
Huh? How do you explain apps that work across your iPhone and iPod Touch when they have the same size display, or how to you explain apps for the iPhone/Touch that have 1x or 2x scaling on the iPad? The former makes no fucking sense and the latter should be obvious since it's a larger display, not one that is nearly half the size. Note that iPhone/Touch apps look like shit on the iPad and that you can't run iPad apps on the iPhone/Touch. Jobs was right and you relishing in his death doesn't make him any less correct; when you take elements design for a certain size and shrink them enough they reduce the usability, user experience, and eventually it just becomes pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbriton
Perhaps I should have said "a seven inch device"! I agree with you, but also think this market is so new that Apple will be watching carefully. It might turn out that some people want a pure consumption device, an iTunes Pad perhaps. I still think it's feasible that they are experimenting, but that doesn't mean it will see the light of day.
That size would be better for travelers. I'd like more readable area than my iPhone but something less cumbersome than my iPad for wandering city streets when visiting other cities. Jacket pocket sized rather than briefcase sized (or dispatch case or small messenger bag etc.).
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
when you take elements design for a certain size and shrink them enough they reduce the usability, user experience, and eventually it just becomes pointless.
As with the rMBP when you use the more space option the desktop is unusable. It is a transitional period in that as more apps are reworked for the high resolution the practicality of the screen is increased. It is sort of a chicken and egg situation. At first, shrunk apps will look bad but workable as will scaled up apps. If they release a 7" iPad the developers will quickly adapt.
But that is costly. You're talking about a 50% increase in the sale price. Perhaps less since Google isn't about having any margin on the Nexus 7, as if that makes sense.
I think this is smart on Google's part. They need to keep it simple for now. If it catches on then they can offer one with cellular chips that is larger, heavier, and costlier. Right now people, especially those in the Android camp, would any cellular capable model to have the bestest LTE in the whole wide world but that adds a lot of issues for this cheap device.
On top of that, I bet a lot of those interested in this device probably have an smartphone already that they can tether with without the cost of a separate data charge. You aren't buying a $200 tablet because you want the best tablet or the most convenience; you buy it because you want something economical.
The iPad is the equivalent to the 15" mbp and the smaller pad-to-be, will be the equivalent to the 13" mbp, in terms of use and functionality. To start with all iPhone OR iPad, OR both(!), apps will run on the new device but will not be optimized. After a year a whole new ecosystem will be well established. Count me in for at least one right off the bat, though 8 gb will be too little. If it starts with 8gb my guess is that in no time it will be discontinued. A medium sized device will excel at gaming and gamers need storage.
My prediction is that a medium sized device will arrive before the holiday season and will be a runaway success from the get-go.
Mac OS and iOS and fundamentally different. Regardless of what which of the current 15" MBPs you use the mouse pointer is essentially the same size. The user interacts with the trackpad (or mouse) not the display. iOS uses CocoaTouch for iDevices. This means that the size of the virtual elements are meaningful outside one's vision. If they release a different size touch display they will have an idealized UI and a new SDK that will allow devs to take advantage of these UI changes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
But that is costly. You're talking about a 50% increase in the sale price. Perhaps less since Google isn't about having any margin on the Nexus 7, as if that makes sense.
I think this is smart on Google's part. They need to keep it simple for now. If it catches on then they can offer one with cellular chips that is larger, heavier, and costlier. Right now people, especially those in the Android camp, would any cellular capable model to have the bestest LTE in the whole wide world but that adds a lot of issues for this cheap device.
On top of that, I bet a lot of those interested in this device probably have an smartphone already that they can tether with without the cost of a separate data charge. You aren't buying a $200 tablet because you want the best tablet or the most convenience; you buy it because you want something economical.
I suppose it makes sense. Tethering is a hassle and on AT&T they charge for it so the service cost is a wash. The added cost of the device is ok for Apple because their clientele generally has the disposable income evidenced by the high capacity expensive models selling well. Google's target market is probably El cheapo basement dwellers so they only need Wi-Fi.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol
One of the dumbest quotes Jobs ever made. But I'd like to point out two things.
1- How do you explain apps for my iPhone and iPod touch that I use and work just fine?
By pointing out those aren't tablet apps? I can use Pages on my iPhone, but it sucks compared to on my iPad. I can browse and read on my iPhone, but again it sucks compared to my iPad. Same with movies, my graphing software, and with my sketching software.
There is plenty the iPhone and iPod do well, plenty that OS X does well, but there is some stuff that is perfectly suited for a tablet and not done as well on other hardware. Can those tasks be accomplished on a 7-8 inch iPad? Sure, but I doubt as well as on the 10-11" ones. But I'll reserve judgment until I actually see how the mini tablets perform. So far there has been nothing impressive on the market.
As for reading, the closest thing to an actual paper in size seems ideal to me. Back in the 30s they had pocket size books, those have pretty much vanished from the market today. Turns out the mini format wasn't very practical and ideal even though there was a small fashion for it. You don't want to text to be too small to read extensively on the device, and you don't want to have to resort to constant scrolling. So again there seems to be an ideal size. Yes they can tweak that to add extra pages, but then you are constantly flipping pages every 10 seconds, which again is annoying. The point is I'm worried the 7 inchers will end up being trouble in the long run.