Once you start calling names you have lost the argument.
All I hear about the reason for needing a 7" iPad is "It will be more portable". I'm saying that it is not signicantly more portable. Period, end of story.
Will you buy one? Sure, have at it. I'm just saying that it will be a compromised experience. Apple does not like to make compromises. This isn't a iPod Shuffle type of thing where the size difference is a significant feature for not only how it is used but reflected in price as well.
Students will like it I'm sure, but if it maxes out at 32 Gigs then I'm calling boondoggle on it.
So go ahead and buy your SUV and convince yourself you need the ground clearance, the stiffer ride and the banged up doors. Enjoy watching the kids try and climb up into it. If you are objective about it, you'll find that you will be better served by a minivan.
Enjoy the smaller screen, the same iPad portability, the likely less storage and the ultimate question "why am I really bringing this AND my new larger iPhone with me at the same time when they are both close enough in size and they both do the same things?"
What, names like "dude" and "stupid".
I guess you lost the argument.
... and you're the guy who says that a 4" iPhone will give you same experience as a 7" iPad.
And, once again, your blind assertion doesn't make something true.
A 7" iPad would be half the size of a 10" iPad. That's certainly going to provide some difference in portability.
If not, then why would anyone buy a 13" MBA instead of a 15" MBP? Those two are closer in size than a 7" and 10" iPad. Clearly, the market believes that there's a difference.
Why buy two different size MacBooks? Price. Portability is pretty insignificant between the two. My argument is based on "relative portability" not price point. The capabilities between the two are significantly different as well so the purchase decision is based primarily on the perception that a smaller iPad will be a portable miracle when in truth it really isn't. It will simply be "less" iPad than truly "more portable".
That is okay, people believed SUVs to be more usefull than a Minivan too. The everyday reality and truth didn't bear that out but they still sold like hot cakes anyway. It was simply an excuse to rationalize a stupid purchase to satisfy the "I don't want to be seen in a minivan."
The 7" form factor has been idealized based on a exaggerated premise. In fact it is just as much an exaggerated justification as your exagerated claim that a 7" device is "half the size" of a 10" device.
I should just let BMason keep going. He's actually contradicted himself a few times without realizing it.
I'm not arguing the potential sales of the device. I am arguing that the form factor in the long run will not alter the portable use relative to a regular iPad. if you needed a tablet in that form factor you would have purchased one already.
If the size was such a deal maker and opened worlds of opportunity then many 7" Android tablets would eating into iPad market share.
You want one because you just want one, but to say it is filling a "need" is laughable.
... and you're the guy who says that a 4" iPhone will give you same experience as a 7" iPad.
Oh boy... we have a winner!
On this I take bmason1270's side. His use of "dude" wasn't name calling but a common usage (at least where I'm from) of starting a conversation on the defensive. His use of "stupid" was referring to your argument, not you. On the other hand, as mild as it is, your use of Scooter is a derogatory name.
I'm not arguing the potential sales of the device. I am arguing that the form factor in the long run will not alter the portable use relative to a regular iPad. if you needed a tablet in that form factor you would have purchased one already.
If the size was such a deal maker and opened worlds of opportunity then many 7" Android tablets would eating into iPad market share.
You want one because you just want one, but to say it is filling a "need" is laughable.
And as some people mentioned before, the need can come afterwards. Many people did not need an iPhone when it came out. then it did, and people flocked it. What samsung is doing may be a hit and miss, but Apple was not always a successful brand. I must say, the sales and number of people I see using these devices, makes it a needed item now.
Why buy two different size MacBooks? Price. Portability is pretty insignificant between the two. My argument is based on "relative portability" not price point. The capabilities between the two are significantly different as well so the purchase decision is based primarily on the perception that a smaller iPad will be a portable miracle when in truth it really isn't. It will simply be "less" iPad than truly "more portable".
That is okay, people believed SUVs to be more usefull than a Minivan too. The everyday reality and truth didn't bear that out but they still sold like hot cakes anyway. It was simply an excuse to rationalize a stupid purchase to satisfy the "I don't want to be seen in a minivan."
The 7" form factor has been idealized based on a exaggerated premise. In fact it is just as much an exaggerated justification as your exagerated claim that a 7" device is "half the size" of a 10" device.
Okay... his "exaggerated" claim of being half the size is out by a bit... the area of a 10" is 44.72 sq. in. and the area of a 7" is 24.3 sq. in.
On this I take bmason1270's side. His use of "dude" wasn't name calling but a common usage (at least where I'm from) of starting a conversation on the defensive. His use of "stupid" was referring to your argument, not you. On the other hand, as mild as it is, your use of Scooter is a derogatory name.
PS: There is only one Dude.
I found dude to be as offensive as Scooter. You can't tell me that he didn't mean it in a derogatory manner.
I have an uncle who is far sighted. He purchased one of these and likes it because he can read the caller ID and see the numbers on the keypad without putting on his reading glasses. Basically the Galaxy Note is like those large button phones and large digit alarm clocks.
I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus with a 4.65" screen and it is definitely too big for comfortable one-handed operation. I can do it, but to reach the top or bottom of the phone requires shifting the phone in your hand. I'm just waiting for the day when I loose my grip during a shift and drop the phone on concrete.
My next phone is going to have a 4.1" inch screen or smaller. Anything bigger is awkward for one handed use.
I found dude to be as offensive as Scooter. You can't tell me that he didn't mean it in a derogatory manner.
{There is difference in inflection]
Well the way I meant it was more of exclamation than as a name. So offense was not intended.
And to be offended by "Scooter" would assume I care about what you think about me. I don't know you so I can't be offended by your opinion of me. I'm sure your a nice guy and all but I'm a big boy and just felt that going to name calling was funny.
I have an uncle who is far sighted. He purchased one of these and likes it because he can read the caller ID and see the numbers on the keypad without putting on his reading glasses. Basically the Galaxy Note is like those large button phones and large digit alarm clocks.
I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus with a 4.65" screen and it is definitely too big for comfortable one-handed operation. I can do it, but to reach the top or bottom of the phone requires shifting the phone in your hand. I'm just waiting for the day when I loose my grip during a shift and drop the phone on concrete.
My next phone is going to have a 4.1" inch screen or smaller. Anything bigger is awkward for one handed use.
I'm sure that Apple realizes that making a larger screen for the iPhone will snag a few extra buyers but going over 4" would might end up losing existing customers. Anyone that likes the old form factor would still be able to buy the 4S.
As someone mentioned, though, the Note is not used as a phone in the traditional sense (ie. bt headset) and I can understand how someone would prefer the larger screen as it would better bridge the gap between a tablet and a phone... imho.
Well the way I meant it was more of exclamation than as a name. So offense was not intended.
And to be offended by "Scooter" would assume I care about what you think about me. I don't know you so I can't be offended by your opinion of me. I'm sure your a nice guy and all but I'm a big boy and just felt that going to name calling was funny.
As I thought that you had to resort to "dude".
... and, to me, Scooter is just an exclamation in response to "dude".
... and, Scooter, is just an exclamation by me in response to "dude".
No, there was a difference in intent. Dude isn't commonly considered derogatory. I've never heard anyone described as a "cool scooter". I've never The Big Lebowski proclaim himself as "The Scooter". The only affectionate way of calling anyone "Scooter" is when referring to a child. In any other instance it is meant to imply that you are calling me a child. This would imply that I am less than you in as much it's use is intended to be derogatory in nature and intent?
By the way, a 5" iPhone represents a similar issue in size differentiation from the iPhone as the 7" iPad does to the regular iPad.
Does 5 inches significantly improve the iPhone? Does 7" improve the the iPad significantly?
No, there was a difference in intent. Dude isn't commonly considered derogatory. I've never heard anyone described as a "cool scooter". I've never The Big Lebowski proclaim himself as "The Scooter".
By the way, a 5" iPhone represents a similar issue in size differentiation from the iPhone as the 7" iPad does to the regular iPad.
Does 5 inches significantly improve the iPhone? Does 7" improve the the iPad significantly?
They are tweener niche markets.
Not commonly but in your case it was obvious that the intent was to demean. As in: "Hey dude, how's it hanging!" as compared to, "Look, dude, this is the way it is and that's it."
Inflection. {As in when someone tells someone to "Shut it!", you pretty much know how that person thinks.]
By the way, for a guy that says he doesn't care you sure seem to be putting on a show.
... and, just like the other guys you are stating to go all over the board to try and fill in the cracks of your argument. No use giving a reply... you'll just keep moving the goalposts.
Not commonly but in your case it was obvious that the intent was to demean. As in: "Hey dude, how's it hanging!" as compared to, "Look, dude, this is the way it is and that's it."
Inflection.
By the way, for a guy that says he doesn't care you sure seem to be putting on a show.
... and, just like the other guys you are stating to go all over the board to try and fill in the cracks of your argument. No use giving a reply... you'll just keep moving the goalposts.
I haven't moved a goal post. Now you think that a 5 inch iPhone would be niche. It is roughly the same size difference to the standard iPhone form factor as the smaller iPad would be to the standard size.
That is a contradiction on your part. The truth is, that in that size range there are more form vs function compromises in the long run than there is in having two distinct product categories. Anything in the middle would come off looking like a El Camino. Cult classic? Sure, useful for most people? Nope.
I haven't moved a goal post. You think that a 5 inch iPhone would be niche. It is roughly the same size difference to the standard iPhone form factor as the smaller iPad would be to the standard size.
That is a contradiction on your part. The truth is, that in that size range there are more form vs function compromises in the long run than there is in having two distinct product categories. Anything in the middle would come off looking like a El Camino. Cult classic? Sure, useful for most people? Nope.
Har! You never read my other replies to other people. I think a 5.5" device would be great... if there isn't a 7" iPad. It's the first time I've considered something other than Apple.
Cult classic?... you really haven't been following Samsung's sales reports regarding the original Note, have you.
Har! You never read my other replies to other people. I think a 5.5" device would be great... if there isn't a 7" iPad.
Cult classic... you really haven't been following Samsung's sales reports regarding the original Note, have you.
And yet a device close to that form factor exists and you still haven't purchased it.
But as much of a freak show El Camino device that the Samsung is, at least it is distinct in where it sits.
Does it fit in your pocket? Yes, but barely for some.
Would you walk around carrying it? Yes because it fits in your pocket and it is a phone.
Would you need a bag? No.
It is more of a true convergence device who's compromises are far more livable. It doesn't require the need for another device in most casually mobile situations.
And yet, it is still a pretty niche device by your own admission.
And yet a device close to that form factor exists and you still haven't purchased it.
But as much of a freak show El Camino device that the Samsung is, at least it is distinct in where it sits.
Does it fit in your pocket? Yes, but barely for some.
Would you walk around carrying it? Yes because it fits in your pocket and it is a phone.
Would you need a bag? No.
It is more of a true convergence device who's compromises are far more livable. It doesn't require the need for another device in most casually mobile situations.
And yet, it is still a pretty niche device by your own admission.
You still don't get the point about the OS, do you. I realize it makes no difference to you... but it does to me, as it does to quite a few others. If Apple does not make a 7" device in the next year then I will have to seriously consider the 5.5" Samsung Note.
... and where did I say the Note was a niche device. Now you are putting words in my mouth.
All over the map... dude...
[I find your attraction to my posts very touching... for a guy who doesn't care about what I think]
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270
Once you start calling names you have lost the argument.
All I hear about the reason for needing a 7" iPad is "It will be more portable". I'm saying that it is not signicantly more portable. Period, end of story.
Will you buy one? Sure, have at it. I'm just saying that it will be a compromised experience. Apple does not like to make compromises. This isn't a iPod Shuffle type of thing where the size difference is a significant feature for not only how it is used but reflected in price as well.
Students will like it I'm sure, but if it maxes out at 32 Gigs then I'm calling boondoggle on it.
So go ahead and buy your SUV and convince yourself you need the ground clearance, the stiffer ride and the banged up doors. Enjoy watching the kids try and climb up into it. If you are objective about it, you'll find that you will be better served by a minivan.
Enjoy the smaller screen, the same iPad portability, the likely less storage and the ultimate question "why am I really bringing this AND my new larger iPhone with me at the same time when they are both close enough in size and they both do the same things?"
What, names like "dude" and "stupid".
I guess you lost the argument.
... and you're the guy who says that a 4" iPhone will give you same experience as a 7" iPad.
Oh boy... we have a winner!
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
People bought a larger vehicle that they realized they didn't need. That supports Island Hermit's point.
I should just let BMason keep going. He's actually contradicted himself a few times without realizing it.
Why buy two different size MacBooks? Price. Portability is pretty insignificant between the two. My argument is based on "relative portability" not price point. The capabilities between the two are significantly different as well so the purchase decision is based primarily on the perception that a smaller iPad will be a portable miracle when in truth it really isn't. It will simply be "less" iPad than truly "more portable".
That is okay, people believed SUVs to be more usefull than a Minivan too. The everyday reality and truth didn't bear that out but they still sold like hot cakes anyway. It was simply an excuse to rationalize a stupid purchase to satisfy the "I don't want to be seen in a minivan."
The 7" form factor has been idealized based on a exaggerated premise. In fact it is just as much an exaggerated justification as your exagerated claim that a 7" device is "half the size" of a 10" device.
I'm not arguing the potential sales of the device. I am arguing that the form factor in the long run will not alter the portable use relative to a regular iPad. if you needed a tablet in that form factor you would have purchased one already.
If the size was such a deal maker and opened worlds of opportunity then many 7" Android tablets would eating into iPad market share.
You want one because you just want one, but to say it is filling a "need" is laughable.
On this I take bmason1270's side. His use of "dude" wasn't name calling but a common usage (at least where I'm from) of starting a conversation on the defensive. His use of "stupid" was referring to your argument, not you. On the other hand, as mild as it is, your use of Scooter is a derogatory name.
PS: There is only one Dude.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270
I'm not arguing the potential sales of the device. I am arguing that the form factor in the long run will not alter the portable use relative to a regular iPad. if you needed a tablet in that form factor you would have purchased one already.
If the size was such a deal maker and opened worlds of opportunity then many 7" Android tablets would eating into iPad market share.
You want one because you just want one, but to say it is filling a "need" is laughable.
And as some people mentioned before, the need can come afterwards. Many people did not need an iPhone when it came out. then it did, and people flocked it. What samsung is doing may be a hit and miss, but Apple was not always a successful brand. I must say, the sales and number of people I see using these devices, makes it a needed item now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270
Why buy two different size MacBooks? Price. Portability is pretty insignificant between the two. My argument is based on "relative portability" not price point. The capabilities between the two are significantly different as well so the purchase decision is based primarily on the perception that a smaller iPad will be a portable miracle when in truth it really isn't. It will simply be "less" iPad than truly "more portable".
That is okay, people believed SUVs to be more usefull than a Minivan too. The everyday reality and truth didn't bear that out but they still sold like hot cakes anyway. It was simply an excuse to rationalize a stupid purchase to satisfy the "I don't want to be seen in a minivan."
The 7" form factor has been idealized based on a exaggerated premise. In fact it is just as much an exaggerated justification as your exagerated claim that a 7" device is "half the size" of a 10" device.
Okay... his "exaggerated" claim of being half the size is out by a bit... the area of a 10" is 44.72 sq. in. and the area of a 7" is 24.3 sq. in.
Just saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
On this I take bmason1270's side. His use of "dude" wasn't name calling but a common usage (at least where I'm from) of starting a conversation on the defensive. His use of "stupid" was referring to your argument, not you. On the other hand, as mild as it is, your use of Scooter is a derogatory name.
PS: There is only one Dude.
I found dude to be as offensive as Scooter. You can't tell me that he didn't mean it in a derogatory manner.
{There is difference in inflection]
LOL touché
And now it will be even bigger...
Yay?
I have an uncle who is far sighted. He purchased one of these and likes it because he can read the caller ID and see the numbers on the keypad without putting on his reading glasses. Basically the Galaxy Note is like those large button phones and large digit alarm clocks.
I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus with a 4.65" screen and it is definitely too big for comfortable one-handed operation. I can do it, but to reach the top or bottom of the phone requires shifting the phone in your hand. I'm just waiting for the day when I loose my grip during a shift and drop the phone on concrete.
My next phone is going to have a 4.1" inch screen or smaller. Anything bigger is awkward for one handed use.
Well the way I meant it was more of exclamation than as a name. So offense was not intended.
And to be offended by "Scooter" would assume I care about what you think about me. I don't know you so I can't be offended by your opinion of me. I'm sure your a nice guy and all but I'm a big boy and just felt that going to name calling was funny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelstuff
I have an uncle who is far sighted. He purchased one of these and likes it because he can read the caller ID and see the numbers on the keypad without putting on his reading glasses. Basically the Galaxy Note is like those large button phones and large digit alarm clocks.
I have a Samsung Galaxy Nexus with a 4.65" screen and it is definitely too big for comfortable one-handed operation. I can do it, but to reach the top or bottom of the phone requires shifting the phone in your hand. I'm just waiting for the day when I loose my grip during a shift and drop the phone on concrete.
My next phone is going to have a 4.1" inch screen or smaller. Anything bigger is awkward for one handed use.
I'm sure that Apple realizes that making a larger screen for the iPhone will snag a few extra buyers but going over 4" would might end up losing existing customers. Anyone that likes the old form factor would still be able to buy the 4S.
As someone mentioned, though, the Note is not used as a phone in the traditional sense (ie. bt headset) and I can understand how someone would prefer the larger screen as it would better bridge the gap between a tablet and a phone... imho.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270
Well the way I meant it was more of exclamation than as a name. So offense was not intended.
And to be offended by "Scooter" would assume I care about what you think about me. I don't know you so I can't be offended by your opinion of me. I'm sure your a nice guy and all but I'm a big boy and just felt that going to name calling was funny.
As I thought that you had to resort to "dude".
... and, to me, Scooter is just an exclamation in response to "dude".
No, there was a difference in intent. Dude isn't commonly considered derogatory. I've never heard anyone described as a "cool scooter". I've never The Big Lebowski proclaim himself as "The Scooter". The only affectionate way of calling anyone "Scooter" is when referring to a child. In any other instance it is meant to imply that you are calling me a child. This would imply that I am less than you in as much it's use is intended to be derogatory in nature and intent?
By the way, a 5" iPhone represents a similar issue in size differentiation from the iPhone as the 7" iPad does to the regular iPad.
Does 5 inches significantly improve the iPhone? Does 7" improve the the iPad significantly?
They are tweener niche markets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270
No, there was a difference in intent. Dude isn't commonly considered derogatory. I've never heard anyone described as a "cool scooter". I've never The Big Lebowski proclaim himself as "The Scooter".
By the way, a 5" iPhone represents a similar issue in size differentiation from the iPhone as the 7" iPad does to the regular iPad.
Does 5 inches significantly improve the iPhone? Does 7" improve the the iPad significantly?
They are tweener niche markets.
Not commonly but in your case it was obvious that the intent was to demean. As in: "Hey dude, how's it hanging!" as compared to, "Look, dude, this is the way it is and that's it."
Inflection. {As in when someone tells someone to "Shut it!", you pretty much know how that person thinks.]
By the way, for a guy that says he doesn't care you sure seem to be putting on a show.
... and, just like the other guys you are stating to go all over the board to try and fill in the cracks of your argument. No use giving a reply... you'll just keep moving the goalposts.
I haven't moved a goal post. Now you think that a 5 inch iPhone would be niche. It is roughly the same size difference to the standard iPhone form factor as the smaller iPad would be to the standard size.
That is a contradiction on your part. The truth is, that in that size range there are more form vs function compromises in the long run than there is in having two distinct product categories. Anything in the middle would come off looking like a El Camino. Cult classic? Sure, useful for most people? Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270
I haven't moved a goal post. You think that a 5 inch iPhone would be niche. It is roughly the same size difference to the standard iPhone form factor as the smaller iPad would be to the standard size.
That is a contradiction on your part. The truth is, that in that size range there are more form vs function compromises in the long run than there is in having two distinct product categories. Anything in the middle would come off looking like a El Camino. Cult classic? Sure, useful for most people? Nope.
Har! You never read my other replies to other people. I think a 5.5" device would be great... if there isn't a 7" iPad. It's the first time I've considered something other than Apple.
Cult classic?... you really haven't been following Samsung's sales reports regarding the original Note, have you.
And yet a device close to that form factor exists and you still haven't purchased it.
But as much of a freak show El Camino device that the Samsung is, at least it is distinct in where it sits.
Does it fit in your pocket? Yes, but barely for some.
Would you walk around carrying it? Yes because it fits in your pocket and it is a phone.
Would you need a bag? No.
It is more of a true convergence device who's compromises are far more livable. It doesn't require the need for another device in most casually mobile situations.
And yet, it is still a pretty niche device by your own admission.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmason1270
And yet a device close to that form factor exists and you still haven't purchased it.
But as much of a freak show El Camino device that the Samsung is, at least it is distinct in where it sits.
Does it fit in your pocket? Yes, but barely for some.
Would you walk around carrying it? Yes because it fits in your pocket and it is a phone.
Would you need a bag? No.
It is more of a true convergence device who's compromises are far more livable. It doesn't require the need for another device in most casually mobile situations.
And yet, it is still a pretty niche device by your own admission.
You still don't get the point about the OS, do you. I realize it makes no difference to you... but it does to me, as it does to quite a few others. If Apple does not make a 7" device in the next year then I will have to seriously consider the 5.5" Samsung Note.
... and where did I say the Note was a niche device. Now you are putting words in my mouth.
All over the map... dude...
[I find your attraction to my posts very touching... for a guy who doesn't care about what I think]