There wouldn't be any cannibalization if there wasn't such a sad convergence of the "pro" with the consumer product lines.
That's the whole point. That's the powerful, meaningful trend here: the Rise of the Prosumer. And Apple is leading this charge in a big way. It's what is *supposed* to be happening.
Bullshit. The stock will mega-tank. The term "irrational exuberance" comes to mind when talking about AAPL. Any hiccup at all will bring out the sharp knives.
AAPL is not overvalued. P/E ratio about 15 which is normal for non-growth companies - which Apple isn't. Actually its the 66th percentile in its sector. This ratio assumes no market growth - it used to be in the 40's in 2009
The price to book vale is 5 down from 10 a few years ago. The market is continuously undervaluing aapl. that said I would love to see a miss this Q, goos buying opp.
I like that you copied and pasted from their own material. Even if they were three guys in a garage they could still call themselves a "leading, full-service North American financial services provider offering equity and debt underwriting, corporate lending and project financing, merger and acquisitions advisory services, securitization, treasury management, market risk management, debt and equity research and institutional sales and trading."
I like that you selectively quoted and omitted the most important parts:
Quote:
BMO Capital Markets has 2,200 employees operating in 30 locations around the world, including 17 in North America.
BMO Capital Markets is a part of BMO Financial Group (NYSE, TSX: BMO), one of the largest diversified financial services providers in North America with US$532 billion total assets and more than 46,500 employees as of April 30, 2012.
Established in 1817 as Bank of Montreal, BMO Financial Group is a highly diversified North American financial services organization.
Of course this could just be made up bullshit. But then the burden of proof is back on the "who are these guys?" "I've never heard of them" and "what do they know?" folks. They may indeed not know anything. But this was a typical Apple fanboi-ish response to anything even remotely negative about Apple.
I like that you also conveniently ignored that there's a wikipedia page suggesting a company with a fairly long history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague
Sure they're big, but there have been plenty of analysts from big firms who have been big wrong on a consistent basis.
I haven't claimed they were right (or wrong). I was merely addressing the original poster's implication that because he had never heard of them, they were probably wrong or inconsequential.
Price has never been the problem with Macs. They sold in record numbers even during a recession.
If price is not a problem with Macs then why do they still only have a 5-10% market share? The simple truth is that many people buying the iPad have come from the Windows PC world rather than the Mac world. Even Apple admitted that a significant proportion of iPad buyers are new to Apple. The reason they are buying the iPad is because it's affordable whereas they would not have bought a Mac in the past because they were too expensive compared to the average Windows PC.
You can call the iPad a cheaper Mac if you want. I still think that ultimately once the hype is over most people will continue to use a desktop or laptop as their primary computer with a tablet device as a secondary machine.
If price is not a problem with Macs then why do they still only have a 5-10% market share? The simple truth is that many people buying the iPad have come from the Windows PC world rather than the Mac world. Even Apple admitted that a significant proportion of iPad buyers are new to Apple. The reason they are buying the iPad is because it's affordable whereas they would not have bought a Mac in the past because they were too expensive compared to the average Windows PC.
You can call the iPad a cheaper Mac if you want. I still think that ultimately once the hype is over most people will continue to use a desktop or laptop as their primary computer with a tablet device as a secondary machine.
Alright, I can agree with a lot of this. Price has always been a barrier to entry into the Apple ecosystem via Macs. Unless we're talking about the Mini, the entry fee is $1000+.
I like that you selectively quoted and omitted the most important parts:
Of course this could just be made up bullshit. But then the burden of proof is back on the "who are these guys?" "I've never heard of them" and "what do they know?" folks. They may indeed not know anything. But this was a typical Apple fanboi-ish response to anything even remotely negative about Apple.
I like that you also conveniently ignored that there's a wikipedia page suggesting a company with a fairly long history.
I haven't claimed they were right (or wrong). I was merely addressing the original poster's implication that because he had never heard of them, they were probably wrong or inconsequential.
I didn't cut out your "quote" AI just didn't include it when I "quoted" you, apparently because of how you quoted it. The only point I was trying to make is that it is much sounder to use impartial descriptions rather than self descriptions. I would have copied Wikipedia's info or some other 3rd party source. Anyone can say nice things about themselves.
To your last line, if you read Apple Blogs often enough you usually hear about the analysts who are from the biggest firms as well as about the people who are most consistently accurate (Andy Zaky at Bullish Cross for example). So, to say he'd never heard of them so they are probably wrong could hold some water in that regard.
What does that matter? Steve already explained the PC days are numbered. The fact is Apple don't mind cannibalizing other products and never have if the over all sales figures are going up for the company. That is precisely why Apple succeed and Kodak, Microsoft et al die. They dare not mess with their precious status quo whereas Apple thrive on challenging themselves. Why on earth don't pundits get that very significant fact?
You Sir are talking through your rear end. Microsoft are still making money hand over fist.
Please post again when you leave elementary school. Re*ard.
Why, when modern computers already do 10x more than most people ever need? We're only people that would wait to buy because of a 10% performance bump, as we're the only ones who care.
Probably. Maybe Mac users wait because, unlike the PC Windows market, Apple users keep their computers, as useful, way longer than PCs. I realized my remark is anecdotal and reflects my buying habits but I like to think I'm typical Mac user.
Yes it is the fact that Apple hasn't updated the hardware that is killing them. It is hardware that needs more in the way of updates than simple processor swaps. The Mac line up, especially the desktop range is extremely stale and no longer significant for customers. Thisis driving sales downward at a rather fast rate. Many of us want to see dramatically new machines for the desktop market that show the same commitment to engineering that the laptops get.
The current iMac is the best selling iMac ever. It's hard to upgrade perfection. Well, I'm bad on that one but there isn't that much in Apple's iMac that really needs changing. I don't want to see any Mac changed because a few people think it's stale. Stale is a element of fashion not capability.
The only point I was trying to make is that it is much sounder to use impartial descriptions rather than self descriptions. Anyone can say nice things about themselves.
Agreed. But I wasn't planning to spend much time pointing out the fact that this isn't fly by night operation...and that took all of about 10 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague
I would have copied Wikipedia's info or some other 3rd party source.
See above. I did include a link to Wikipedia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague
To your last line, if you read Apple Blogs often enough you usually hear about the analysts who are from the biggest firms as well as about the people who are most consistently accurate (Andy Zaky at Bullish Cross for example). So, to say he'd never heard of them so they are probably wrong could hold some water in that regard.
Possibly. But geez...this ain't exactly a small firm.
I assume no one thinks Apple will sell Macs than they did the same quarter last year. If that happens then we really are in a post-PC market that clearly is being affected by the iPad in an amazing way. I'm guessing that Mac sales will be higher than last year and that they will be above the industry average for growth. I'm also hoping that this Autumn will be the start of a new Mac campaign. I'm thinking that with the Retina Macs, Mountain Lion, and Window 8 all arriving it's the perfect time to launch a new campaign.
What does that matter? Steve already explained the PC days are numbered.
Yep. These guys act like Apple is expecting their Mac sales to go through the roof and it won't. But for all we know Apple does not expect any such thing and the sales numbers could be right where they (Apple) expect and want them to be
If price is not a problem with Macs then why do they still only have a 5-10% market share? The simple truth is that many people buying the iPad have come from the Windows PC world rather than the Mac world. Even Apple admitted that a significant proportion of iPad buyers are new to Apple. The reason they are buying the iPad is because it's affordable whereas they would not have bought a Mac in the past because they were too expensive compared to the average Windows PC.
You can call the iPad a cheaper Mac if you want. I still think that ultimately once the hype is over most people will continue to use a desktop or laptop as their primary computer with a tablet device as a secondary machine.
Do you realize what it means to produce 5% of all the computers in the world? Even 1% more is almost impossible to do because of production capacity and logistics.
As you know Apples Mac share is growing every year and if you look at the number of Macs produced its absolutely phenomenal.
If you look at the notebooks Apple has about 25% of the market in the U.S., and thats incredible for one company.
So its a fact that the price isn't a problem at all.
And Apple didn't 'admit that a significant portion of iPad buyers are new to Apple', because admitting it would be a negative spin.
But probably Apple did state that a significant portion of iPad buyers are new to Apple, as they did several times for the Mac.
This is of course a huge plus for Apple because people will be inclined to try other Apple products like Macs and this will increase the sales even more.
And no, no one is buying an iPad because they cannot buy a Mac.
Thats insane, because it isn't a complete replacement for a PC and seen as an expensive luxury toy (two of the most common heard negative comments).
The iPad is a distinct product and is better at some tasks than any Mac, its also used differently.
If you define primary computer as the one you use the most, the iPad is my primary computer already, and hype doesn't have anything to do with it.
When Apple releases an A4 pad it will be my only computer.
Comments
Mac Pros don't have much effect on Mac sales. Apple doesn't sell nearly as many as they do laptops and even iMacs.
That's the whole point. That's the powerful, meaningful trend here: the Rise of the Prosumer. And Apple is leading this charge in a big way. It's what is *supposed* to be happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Bullshit. The stock will mega-tank. The term "irrational exuberance" comes to mind when talking about AAPL. Any hiccup at all will bring out the sharp knives.
AAPL is not overvalued. P/E ratio about 15 which is normal for non-growth companies - which Apple isn't. Actually its the 66th percentile in its sector. This ratio assumes no market growth - it used to be in the 40's in 2009
The price to book vale is 5 down from 10 a few years ago. The market is continuously undervaluing aapl. that said I would love to see a miss this Q, goos buying opp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague
I like that you copied and pasted from their own material. Even if they were three guys in a garage they could still call themselves a "leading, full-service North American financial services provider offering equity and debt underwriting, corporate lending and project financing, merger and acquisitions advisory services, securitization, treasury management, market risk management, debt and equity research and institutional sales and trading."
I like that you selectively quoted and omitted the most important parts:
Quote:
BMO Capital Markets has 2,200 employees operating in 30 locations around the world, including 17 in North America.
BMO Capital Markets is a part of BMO Financial Group (NYSE, TSX: BMO), one of the largest diversified financial services providers in North America with US$532 billion total assets and more than 46,500 employees as of April 30, 2012.
Established in 1817 as Bank of Montreal, BMO Financial Group is a highly diversified North American financial services organization.
Of course this could just be made up bullshit. But then the burden of proof is back on the "who are these guys?" "I've never heard of them" and "what do they know?" folks. They may indeed not know anything. But this was a typical Apple fanboi-ish response to anything even remotely negative about Apple.
I like that you also conveniently ignored that there's a wikipedia page suggesting a company with a fairly long history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague
Sure they're big, but there have been plenty of analysts from big firms who have been big wrong on a consistent basis.
I haven't claimed they were right (or wrong). I was merely addressing the original poster's implication that because he had never heard of them, they were probably wrong or inconsequential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Price has never been the problem with Macs. They sold in record numbers even during a recession.
If price is not a problem with Macs then why do they still only have a 5-10% market share? The simple truth is that many people buying the iPad have come from the Windows PC world rather than the Mac world. Even Apple admitted that a significant proportion of iPad buyers are new to Apple. The reason they are buying the iPad is because it's affordable whereas they would not have bought a Mac in the past because they were too expensive compared to the average Windows PC.
You can call the iPad a cheaper Mac if you want. I still think that ultimately once the hype is over most people will continue to use a desktop or laptop as their primary computer with a tablet device as a secondary machine.
the sky is falling!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh
Besides, who is this "investment firm BMO Capital"? Never heard of them. What do they know?
Only part of the most powerful and sound banking system in the whole world; but you realize the USA is not the centre of the world eh?
Alright, I can agree with a lot of this. Price has always been a barrier to entry into the Apple ecosystem via Macs. Unless we're talking about the Mini, the entry fee is $1000+.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147
the sky is falling!
You spelled that wrong. It's "Apple is doomed!™".
Actually there is an updated Mac Pro:
http://www.apple.com/macpro/
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970
I like that you selectively quoted and omitted the most important parts:
Of course this could just be made up bullshit. But then the burden of proof is back on the "who are these guys?" "I've never heard of them" and "what do they know?" folks. They may indeed not know anything. But this was a typical Apple fanboi-ish response to anything even remotely negative about Apple.
I like that you also conveniently ignored that there's a wikipedia page suggesting a company with a fairly long history.
I haven't claimed they were right (or wrong). I was merely addressing the original poster's implication that because he had never heard of them, they were probably wrong or inconsequential.
I didn't cut out your "quote" AI just didn't include it when I "quoted" you, apparently because of how you quoted it. The only point I was trying to make is that it is much sounder to use impartial descriptions rather than self descriptions. I would have copied Wikipedia's info or some other 3rd party source. Anyone can say nice things about themselves.
To your last line, if you read Apple Blogs often enough you usually hear about the analysts who are from the biggest firms as well as about the people who are most consistently accurate (Andy Zaky at Bullish Cross for example). So, to say he'd never heard of them so they are probably wrong could hold some water in that regard.
You Sir are talking through your rear end. Microsoft are still making money hand over fist.
Please post again when you leave elementary school. Re*ard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why, when modern computers already do 10x more than most people ever need? We're only people that would wait to buy because of a 10% performance bump, as we're the only ones who care.
Probably. Maybe Mac users wait because, unlike the PC Windows market, Apple users keep their computers, as useful, way longer than PCs. I realized my remark is anecdotal and reflects my buying habits but I like to think I'm typical Mac user.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So… do we use Trojans to protect against trojans? I'm confused.
And what happens if she blue screens midway? I shudder to think.
Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.
Don't fear trojans - fear the greeks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Yes it is the fact that Apple hasn't updated the hardware that is killing them. It is hardware that needs more in the way of updates than simple processor swaps. The Mac line up, especially the desktop range is extremely stale and no longer significant for customers. Thisis driving sales downward at a rather fast rate. Many of us want to see dramatically new machines for the desktop market that show the same commitment to engineering that the laptops get.
The current iMac is the best selling iMac ever. It's hard to upgrade perfection. Well, I'm bad on that one but there isn't that much in Apple's iMac that really needs changing. I don't want to see any Mac changed because a few people think it's stale. Stale is a element of fashion not capability.
Just another ANAL-IST (no spelling mistake) trying to create a buying opportunity for himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague
The only point I was trying to make is that it is much sounder to use impartial descriptions rather than self descriptions. Anyone can say nice things about themselves.
Agreed. But I wasn't planning to spend much time pointing out the fact that this isn't fly by night operation...and that took all of about 10 seconds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague
I would have copied Wikipedia's info or some other 3rd party source.
See above. I did include a link to Wikipedia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregInPrague
To your last line, if you read Apple Blogs often enough you usually hear about the analysts who are from the biggest firms as well as about the people who are most consistently accurate (Andy Zaky at Bullish Cross for example). So, to say he'd never heard of them so they are probably wrong could hold some water in that regard.
Possibly. But geez...this ain't exactly a small firm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
What does that matter? Steve already explained the PC days are numbered.
Yep. These guys act like Apple is expecting their Mac sales to go through the roof and it won't. But for all we know Apple does not expect any such thing and the sales numbers could be right where they (Apple) expect and want them to be
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK
If price is not a problem with Macs then why do they still only have a 5-10% market share? The simple truth is that many people buying the iPad have come from the Windows PC world rather than the Mac world. Even Apple admitted that a significant proportion of iPad buyers are new to Apple. The reason they are buying the iPad is because it's affordable whereas they would not have bought a Mac in the past because they were too expensive compared to the average Windows PC.
You can call the iPad a cheaper Mac if you want. I still think that ultimately once the hype is over most people will continue to use a desktop or laptop as their primary computer with a tablet device as a secondary machine.
Do you realize what it means to produce 5% of all the computers in the world? Even 1% more is almost impossible to do because of production capacity and logistics.
As you know Apples Mac share is growing every year and if you look at the number of Macs produced its absolutely phenomenal.
If you look at the notebooks Apple has about 25% of the market in the U.S., and thats incredible for one company.
So its a fact that the price isn't a problem at all.
And Apple didn't 'admit that a significant portion of iPad buyers are new to Apple', because admitting it would be a negative spin.
But probably Apple did state that a significant portion of iPad buyers are new to Apple, as they did several times for the Mac.
This is of course a huge plus for Apple because people will be inclined to try other Apple products like Macs and this will increase the sales even more.
And no, no one is buying an iPad because they cannot buy a Mac.
Thats insane, because it isn't a complete replacement for a PC and seen as an expensive luxury toy (two of the most common heard negative comments).
The iPad is a distinct product and is better at some tasks than any Mac, its also used differently.
If you define primary computer as the one you use the most, the iPad is my primary computer already, and hype doesn't have anything to do with it.
When Apple releases an A4 pad it will be my only computer.
J.