Apple acknowledges 'mistake,' places eligible products back on EPEAT

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  • Reply 61 of 159
    cvaldes1831cvaldes1831 Posts: 1,832member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post


     


    Maybe, but I don't buy this version of events. For one thing, Apple took a PR hit. For another the Green Electronics Council would have gone out of its way to accommodate Apple anyway. There is absolutely no reason to believe they were being intransigent with Apple.


     


    I think Apple simply saw EPEAT as a bureaucratic requirement and failed to understand the value of it as a signal of intent to environmentally conscious consumers.



    Are you kidding? Apple was one of the most instrumentally involved companies in setting up the original EPEAT. They were one of the primary drivers.


     


    And based on Mansfield's and Frisbee's quotes, it appears that Apple will have an even louder voice in how EPEAT evolves.

  • Reply 62 of 159
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,382member


    Bullshit. Apple should have stuck to its horses. If Apple backpedalled and gave in everytime one of its decisions causes an outrage (ie. every single decision its ever made) it would not be a SHRED of the company it is today. If Apple withdrew from EPEAT, they must have known it would cause some bad PR, and they must have believed the reasons behind the decisions outweighed that. To give in to the temporary, bullshit, contrived outrage from people who probably dont have a clue about what EPEAT actually is, or how outdated the guidelines are, is a mistake. HIstory has shown that Apple is usually right, and the critics are all wrong. I doubt this time was an exception, but Apple buckled. Unfortunately.   

  • Reply 63 of 159
    applegreenapplegreen Posts: 421member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post


    Here are the most interesting statements by both sides:


     


    and


     


     


     


     


    This alludes to some sort of power struggle between Apple Inc. and the Green Electronics Council.


     


    Let's say Apple approaches the Green Electronics Council proposing changes to EPEAT, perhaps some that would disqualify some products from its competitors. Perhaps there was an uproar by others in the industry and the Council voted down on Apple's proposed changes to EPEAT.


     


    Or what if it were something like "let's use EPEAT on smartphones and tablets" (the EPEAT standard is so old, neither product category is covered). If other smartphone manufacturers weren't ready for EPEAT, do you think they'd be willing to proceed?


     


    So, then Apple called the Green Electronics Council's bluff by walking away. While the public and media scratched their heads at Apple's actions, the Green Electronics Council probably realized that they couldn't have such a prominent corporation give them the "no confidence" vote. It would be like the USA leaving the United Nations (note that the predecessor League of Nations failed since USA refused to sign up). So the Green Electronics Council folded.


     


    While the public written statements make it sound like Apple's fault, the aforementioned quotes point to something that happened behind the scenes.


     


    It is likely that the Green Electronics Council blinked.


     


    As a matter of fact, Apple probably knew from the beginning that it would end up like this and that they would need some sort of scapegoat (the outgoing Mansfield, a guy who has never really spoken for Apple on a public relations level). They could have left EPEAT last year or next year, it probably wouldn't have mattered. My guess is that they had this planned for a while, and the idea was probably Steve's. They just needed the right opportunity.


     


    This whole thing smacks of a Steve Jobs power play.



    I like your explanation.  Makes a lot of sense.

  • Reply 64 of 159
    srangersranger Posts: 473member
    I suspect the Apple thought that their withdraw would force rule changes in the green rating system and simply over played their hand....
  • Reply 65 of 159
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 15,309moderator
    According to the official material available from Apple, http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/macbookpro_retinadisplay_per_june2012.pdf
    the Retina display Macbook Pro "[SIZE=14px]Achieves a Gold rating from EPEAT"[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=14px]So, it appears that the initial withdrawal from EPEAT wasn't due to the rMBP. That's what it looks like at least.[/SIZE]

    I checked that PDF out when the news arrived they were withdrawing from EPEAT and it didn't mention EPEAT. In the PDF inspector, it says that file's creation date is July 12th yet is listed online as a June 2012 PDF. It looks like they updated it yesterday with the EPEAT certification.

    Very odd of them to drop a certification in the first place if they pass all the checks. I could understand if they got a lower rating on one product so perhaps they did get a lower rating on the Retina MBP and Apple decided to scrap it but the certifying body overturned the decision after Apple decided to drop EPEAT.
  • Reply 66 of 159


    You will be seeing some Apple approved EPEAT regulation updates in the next 6 months.

  • Reply 67 of 159
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    well if they are going to change the glue why not stop using it all together. And stop using the torque screws that are the other part of the issue. 


     



    A fancy screwdriver is still just a screwdriver so it should qualify as a common tool. The glue could actually be serving a number of functions such as ensuring better heat dissipation to the external case as well as allowing for smaller tolerances, less weight due to reduced chassis structure or possibly for safety to better contain the battery in the event of blowout. 

  • Reply 68 of 159
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post


     


    Well, obviously doing the thinking first is better. But if you didn't, or didn't do it right, better to face as soon as you realize it than to stay the course at all costs.



     


    Exactly right.  This isn't a "massive fail" or "epic fail" as others have posted.  This is a rather ho-hum, "Apple goofed, learned quickly, and corrected course."


     


    Obviously it's weird (since many of us here were asking "just because some of your products don't mean the standard, what's the point of pulling already-approved items from the list?"), but it's hard to get too excited about it.


     


    Apple had PLENTY of communication/messaging gaffes during the Jobs era and was (probably/generally) slower to correct course.  I think this new development is (if anything) positive.

  • Reply 69 of 159
    mazda 3smazda 3s Posts: 1,613member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Marvin View Post





    I checked that PDF out when the news arrived they were withdrawing from EPEAT and it didn't mention EPEAT. In the PDF inspector, it says that file's creation date is July 12th yet is listed online as a June 2012 PDF. It looks like they updated it yesterday with the EPEAT certification.

    Very odd of them to drop a certification in the first place if they pass all the checks. I could understand if they got a lower rating on one product so perhaps they did get a lower rating on the Retina MBP and Apple decided to scrap it but the certifying body overturned the decision after Apple decided to drop EPEAT.


     


    The plot thickens...

  • Reply 70 of 159
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member

    Oh, and Apple has backtracked before. Remember the iPhone price drop and resulting refund? Mistakes are not un-Apple like. It's run by humans. What was Apple-like was the speed of the reaction. Four days? That's fast.

    Wasn't expecting this. Not crazy about the waffling going on, but it's nothing really critical.

    Yes, Apple *can* make mistakes. But notice what their "mistakes" are compared to the competition? A price drop. An environmental thingy, Ping, and maybe something else not significant enough to remember.

    The competition would kill to make Apple's "mistakes." Meanwhile entire competitor platforms and flagship devices are mistakes, and costly ones. *Looks at RIM, HP, Dell, MS.*

    Congratulations to Apple on their "mistakes." The exception(s) does indeed prove the rule.
  • Reply 71 of 159
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    mazda 3s wrote: »
    The plot thickens...

    Agreed. I'd be interested in hearing more about this.
  • Reply 72 of 159
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,192member
    This news comes on the same day retina MBP availability improves by a week. Just coincidence? Maybe.

    No manufacturer is an island.
  • Reply 73 of 159
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member


    As to "Why was it Bob Mansfield and not Cook or Ives?" Duh.  The Senior Vice President for Hardware Engineering sounds like exactly the right person to make an announcement like this.  It's not going to be Ives; he's got NOTHING to do with this.  And why escalate it to the big boss?  This is a tempest in a teapot and no sense making it even more high-profile be attaching Cook's name to it.  And if it wasn't Mansfield decision to pursue this in the first place (and therefore his "mistake" to correct) then something's wrong.

     

  • Reply 74 of 159
    moxommoxom Posts: 326member
    takeo wrote: »
    I know it's popular to hate Greenpeace and their tactics can be annoying (intentionally I'm sure) but it's good to have some 'watchdogs' bearing witness and raising awareness. If not for Greenpeace the ozone layer would be gone, the whales would be gone, your kids toys would be made from toxic plastic and the French would still be dumping 50 gallon drums of radioactive waste into the ocean. I'm all for capitalism (I'm a business owner myself) but you can't just destroy everything.

    To be honest, I don't have a problem with Greenpeace - they do a lot of good and bring important environmental issues to the public eye.

    However, sometimes they act like an annoying little sister ready to grass you up to your parents at every opportunity when you do wrong...

    As long as Apple continue to make great innovative products, then I'm happy. The day they start to make compromises will be a very sad day.
  • Reply 75 of 159
    misamisa Posts: 827member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Sure looks like it.

    Maybe it was simply a mistake like Apple said.

    Or maybe they're firing a shot across EPEAT's bow to get them to listen to Apple's ideas.

    Exactly. If EPEAT is making a big deal out of 5-lobed screws and glued batteries, they're living in a strange world. Furthermore, it's about time that environmental groups pay more attention to results than buzzwords - and Apple's results are miles ahead of anyone else.


    I doubt repair-ability and recycle-ability are the same thing in EPEAT's eyes. If the glass in the iMac, rMBP, iPad, iPhone can't be removed without shattering, that's a problem. If the batteries can't be removed without breaking their contents, that's a problem. However choice of screws is non-issue, since it's trivial to buy screw drivers. 


     


    Where I question design over function is the the battery had to be glued in the first place, is it so that the batteries can expand in high heat without exploding, or is there just not enough clearance to be able to screw the batteries down? Are the screws effectively useless due to not having enough depth?


     


    As far as repairing something goes, yes the rMBP has a low repairability score... does that matter to anyone who is going to buy it? Nope. The only parts that ever really wear in a laptop are the spinning hard drive (which the rMBP doesn't have) and cracking the screen (Which is caused by uneven force in opening/closing the laptop or damage caused by dropping the laptop, or something on the laptop (eg stepping on it.) Laptops also tend to burn out CFL inverters, but if it's LED lit, then that doesn't apply either.

  • Reply 76 of 159
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by krabbelen View Post


    And Godwins Law makes an early appearance. ;) Post 17.



     


    "Godwins Law" is stupid and childish.  Why do you care?  Why should anyone care?  


     


    When you are talking about machismo, domination, totalitarian attitudes, etc. it's actually quite sensible for Hitler and nazi Germany to come up.  It's the most famous totalitarian state in recent memory and the most famous dictator.  How this idiotic observation continues to have the legs it does I will never understand.  

  • Reply 77 of 159
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,092member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    There move was strategic. Because future Macs will not meet the current EPEAT standards for certification it would look worse to have only their old machines with the high rating. It's unfortunate that Apple is bowing to the asshats and chuckleheads from the usual snowflake that has become an avalanche.




    I think Apple wanted to send a message to the guys at EPEAT.  Even the new "CEO" has said their standards are outdated and need to be reviewed and updated.  While I don't think Apple has a think-tank department that does nothing but think of ways to send subliminal messages to standards-bodies, I think in the end EPEAT will get their act together and modernize the way they certify products.



    I mean really, all the drama-queens raising a stink about gluing the battery as opposed to using screws will conveniently disappear again when Apple gets the new rMBP's certified.



    Personally, I think gluing the battery is a great idea.  The old-school guy in me obviously prefers screws, but to me it makes sense since adhesives are used in such high-strength applications (like automotive subframes) to make a structure super-rigid, that gluing the battery in makes the entire structure that much more solid.  If I want to remove the battery, a sharp spatula-like tool will certainly do the trick.  Just about every notebook consumer will NEVER replace the battery in their laptop, they will NEVER upgrade the RAM or hard drive in their system either.  But hey, the iHaters, trolls, and whiners just love to get their panties in a wedgie.  



    I agree with you Solips.  Absolute bunch of asshats.



    Mark my words... with the industry copying Apple on everything... just wait till the other Scamsungs start gluing their batteries in and watch as no one raises a stink about them doing it... 

  • Reply 78 of 159
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Maybe, but I don't buy this version of events. For one thing, Apple took a PR hit. For another the Green Electronics Council would have gone out of its way to accommodate Apple anyway. There is absolutely no reason to believe they were being intransigent with Apple.

    I think Apple simply saw EPEAT as a bureaucratic requirement and failed to understand the value of it as a signal of intent to environmentally conscious consumers.

    Re: the bolded.

    How do you know that? After all, Greenpeace has been soooooooooo accommodating of Apple.

    Environmental groups thrive on publicity. Most of them would stab their own mother in the back as long as they got front page coverage.
  • Reply 79 of 159
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,897member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post




    "officials are reportedly worried that with Apple backing out, other companies may follow suit, wrecking government attempts to buy environmentally friendly hardware."

    That opens p speculation that Apple could have done this to force them to alter their testing/rating methods or that Apple was woefully unaware of the backlash but it affected EPEAT even more so that they asked Apple to rejoin.


    I'm going with this.  Kind of a "New Coke" strategy.  They pull out, EPEAT panics and has private conversations with Apple to get them back.  Apple agrees, but only if they get to design the new standards.   Apple wins because they have now forced their competition to enact expensive design changes to maintain EPEAT certification.  A certification Apple created and already meets.


     


    Wow, sneaky.

  • Reply 80 of 159

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post


     


    Other government bodies and institutions around the world had started making announcements that they would not buy the products or look into the issue within the next few days. There was a risk of a snowball.


     


    As to the responsibility, I have no idea where this came from and who proposed the backtrack. It sure is an interesting question though.



     


    I have to admit to some inside information on this retraction: Steve Jobs came back from the dead and was all over this unnamed guy eating his brain. He was gonna work his way up the corporate food chain unless Mansfield made a retraction.


     


    Don't think for one minute Steve is gone because he's dead.

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