Apple acknowledges 'mistake,' places eligible products back on EPEAT

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  • Reply 81 of 159
    kellya74ukellya74u Posts: 171member


    deleted

  • Reply 82 of 159
    msimpsonmsimpson Posts: 452member


    Does that mean I should go get my retina MBP out of the dumpster and recycle it instead?

  • Reply 83 of 159

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by asdasd View Post



    That's.....weird.


    Maybe ... or maybe not. Could be some politicking on behalf of Apple to get the EPEAT standards body to consider changing the rules a little (glue may become ok very soon). The backpedal may be signaling that EPEAT has decided it is willing to change the standard.

  • Reply 84 of 159
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,092member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kellya74u View Post


    Sorry, I dozed a minute…had a dream where my mind, ignorant of the facts, conjured up the following:


     


    Apple submitted the Macbook Pro for EPEAT approval & it was denied with, 'you're kidding, right?'


    Apple: We have a proprietary method of recycling these things that complies with your standards, even better. 


    EPEAT: Really, how does that work?


    Apple:    We can't tell you, its proprietary.


    EPEAT: Well, we can't' put our approval on it, unless we understand the process. We can't recycle it & anyone else can't either.


    APPLE: We'll take take care of that, they will want to recycle with us, because we will provide $ incentives toward new purchase.


    EPEAT: That's not good enough. We need to know & duplicate the recycling process.


    APPLE: You mean you are going to declare our very green product, 'not green,' because you don't know how to do it?


    EPEAT: We are an independent body, we need to do independent testing & yield independent results. People rely on us.


    APPLE: You only exist because company like ours participate.


    EPEAT: We exist because the people want us to exist. This isn't the first un-recyclable product that a company has argued for.


    APPLE: We're not arguing, we've got a green product & you won't approve it.


    EPEAT: You realize, that without our approval, You will no longer be able to get government & enterprise accounts?


    APPLE: Are you threatening us, blackmailing us into revealing/publishing proprietary, confidential information?


    EPEAT: No, just stating the obvious facts, lack of our EPEAT approval will cost you 30% in sales.


    APPLE: The only thing that's obvious, is you forget who you are dealing with…I need to make a call….


    EPEAT: Take all the time you need, we'll still be here.


    APPLE:  (smiles, makes the call, then returns)


    EPEAT: Well, give you better direction as to the proper way to get this approved from us, to get the official EPEAT "A-OK?"


    APPLE: Actually, I got very clear direction. Effective immediately, we are pulling all of our products from EPEAT. We will be deleting all of our references to your company because at Apple, you no longer exist.


    EPEAT: That's absurd, you'll be the laughingstock of the whole world.


    APPLE: We doubt it. We believe that people will want our products so much, that they will drop references     to you, buy our products & EPEAT will become irrelevant, then cease to exist, all because you wouldn't approve our green product!


    EPEAT: I think Apple is making a fatal error in not only financially, but how they are perceived around the  world.


    APPLE: You already made the fatal error, now you enjoy watching EPEAT unravel because of your decision here today; sleep well.


    EPEAT: The world will know the truth.


    APPLE: What, that we recycle the green laptops? Any of your lies or spin won't touch us in the long run. Be sure to go back & tell your people what a great job you're doing & how you told Apple what they could do with their 'green laptop." I bet they give you an award.  Nice almost doing business with you.


     


     


    Does this sound familiar, like anyone we know?


     


    Update-


     


    Apple: Um, can we talk?


    EPEAT: I was expecting your call…come on over.




    Actually.... here's the real Update:



    EPEAT: Hello, can we talk?

    APPLE: Sure.  I was expecting your call.

    EPEAT: We realized our recycling standards are a bit outdated.

    APPLE: Please clarify "a bit outdated"?

    EPEAT: Okay, okay... our standards assume we're building 2012 products using methods from the 1990's.

    APPLE: No problem.  Letting go of old ways is hard to do, like Britney Spears.

    EPEAT: So we're cool?

    APPLE: As "cool" as an iPad.

    EPEAT: But I use a Samsung tablet.

    APPLE: I rest my case.  Explains why you're irrelevant now.



    Note:  Sorry... just couldn't resist a stab at Samsung. :)

  • Reply 85 of 159
    rogifanrogifan Posts: 10,669member
    malax wrote: »
    As to "Why was it Bob Mansfield and not Cook or Ives?" Duh.  The Senior Vice President for Hardware Engineering sounds like exactly the right person to make an announcement like this.  It's not going to be Ives; he's got NOTHING to do with this.  And why escalate it to the big boss?  This is a tempest in a teapot and no sense making it even more high-profile be attaching Cook's name to it.  And if it wasn't Mansfield decision to pursue this in the first place (and therefore his "mistake" to correct) then something's wrong.

     
    Since Ive (NOT Ives) is responsible for hardware design my guess is he is very involved in materials used, how the products are designed and engineered and how they can be recycled. But as I reread the statement I see Mansfield used the pronoun "I" which leads me to believe this probably was his decision, or he decided to take the flack for it.
  • Reply 86 of 159
    kibitzerkibitzer Posts: 1,114member


  • Reply 87 of 159
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    [I]Steve would never let this happen¡[/I]
  • Reply 88 of 159
    enjourni wrote: »
    Epic fail there Apple. It was pretty obvious they were going to have to rethink this, rather then lose all government sales. Someone seriously dropped the ball.

    Somehow, I think you are overstating the scope of the "fail" here. Government sales are nowhere near the size of Apple's retail sales worldwide.
  • Reply 89 of 159
    zindakozindako Posts: 468member
    This would never happen if Steve Jobs was still around.
  • Reply 90 of 159
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    zindako wrote: »
    This would never happen if Steve Jobs was still around.

    Soli beat you to it. :lol:
  • Reply 91 of 159
    fredaroonyfredaroony Posts: 619member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post





    This is embarrassing and a bit worrysome as it shows Apple either Apple isnt thinking through decisions well enough or they can be bullied. I'm sure Greenpeace is taking note.

    Interesting that this reversal was announced by someone who is retiring and not Tim Cook or Jony Ive.


    I wonder if its just arrogance? Considering their issues with 4G and warranty in other countries its sure making them look arrogant.

  • Reply 92 of 159
    markbyrnmarkbyrn Posts: 661member
    I have a sneaking suspicion that the original decision flew under the radar of Tim Cook and he was oblivious to the implications, especially in terms of negative public perception and the loss of government contracts. After the fact, Cook woke up the reality (maybe got an earful from folks like Al Gore) and thus Mansfield was ordered to fall on his sword. More so than Mansfield, I would suggest that Apple's General Counsel (Bruce Sewell) be replaced at the soonest opportunity.
  • Reply 93 of 159
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,092member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    Steve would never let this happen¡




    I'm not so sure.  I think Steve would have handled it differently though.  He'd be on the phone with EPEAT first saying this is what we're going to do, update your procedures.  If EPEAT didn't do it in a timely manner, Steve would have done it anyways, then criticize EPEAT and make them look really irrelevant over time, then EPEAT would succumb to the bad PR and update their procedures.



    I think that's the only way you get folks like EPEAT to wake up and get with the program.  Bureaucracies like EPEAT won't change unless their jobs and image are in jeopardy.  Just like politics.

  • Reply 95 of 159
    markbyrnmarkbyrn Posts: 661member
    zindako wrote: »
    This would never happen if Steve Jobs was still around.

    When the iPhone first came, out, Jobs initially didn't allow 3rd party applications to 'pollute it's integrity' but eventually changed his mind, and of course he presided over the Mobile Me debacle and pulled the plug. That's a good sign when a CEO recognizes mistakes and has has the flexibility to change or even reverse course as Cook did here.
  • Reply 96 of 159
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Except for what it signals. I think that the new management has the tendency to blink a tad too much.


     


    We'll see where this heads....



     


     


    Steve Jobs blinked sometimes. Take for instance, the whole roar from early adopters over Apple dramatically dropping the price of the iPhone after less than six months on the market. Apple was clearly in the right, but Jobs made a public statement saying it would give early adopters of the iPhone a hundred dollar credit. 


     


    What Apple did wrong here was two fold. First, it removed all its products from certification even the ones already approved. This made the issue a whole public affair.  Second, Apple should have not said a word about future products not making the certification process all while working (like it has in the past) to change the standard. Apple has a valid point that is products while falling below the standard in some areas, exceeds the standard in ways not measured. If the public eventually became enraged, Apple should have done  a well thought out response like Jobs did on Flash. On the Flash controversy, Jobs came out with a well reasoned response that was hard for anybody to refute. Explaining the standard and why Apple doesn't agree with it would help. 


     


    With Jobs, the buck stopped with him. Why didn't Tim make the statement? He gets paid the most. 

  • Reply 97 of 159
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post





    When the iPhone first came, out, Jobs initially didn't allow 3rd party applications to 'pollute it's integrity' but eventually changed his mind, and of course he presided over the Mobile Me debacle and pulled the plug. That's a good sign when a CEO recognizes mistakes and has has the flexibility to change or even reverse course as Cook did here.


    It is hard to tell sometimes what Jobs thought. He commonly would say one thing in public that Apple wasn't going to do this or that, and then what do you know Apple was soon after doing that. WIth the app store, Apple could have been buying time to eventually come out with the app store throwing off its competitors in the process. Jobs, however, was good at correcting the ship and could make changes when needed. You will notice here though that the CEO didn't take the blame like he should have. 

  • Reply 98 of 159
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by markbyrn View Post


    I would suggest that Apple's General Counsel (Bruce Sewell) be replaced at the soonest opportunity.


    Not sure why since you don't know his involvement if anything in the decision making process. In case you weren't aware, Apple's general counsel is quite busy with lawsuits. What probably happened is the EPEAT debacle snuck up on Apple. It probably submitted the Mac Book Retina, and received a low score. Communications broke down. Apple wanted to apply pressure on EPEAT to update the standard, so it thought withdrawing its products might do the trick. It didn't. 


     


    A lawyer's job is to take a problem and explain the different implications of handling it in different ways. At the end of the day, somebody else generally decides the approach to take. Again, we don't know Sewell's involvement. 


     


    When Mobile Me was screwed up, Jobs took the blame. 

  • Reply 99 of 159
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,092member

    Quote:




    How incredibly funny!!! Where are the iHaters now??!!!  They are probably in emergency-mode right now trying to spin the story that now "suddenly" EPEAT doesn't matter anymore because they caved in to Apple's "evil" methods.

     

  • Reply 100 of 159

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    It signals weakness, lack of managerial attention, and/or lack careful planning. Also, the lack of an explanation, in at least the environmental portion of Apple's website, was really horrible PR. 


     



     


    Neither was there any explanation in Mansfield's letter.  He gives no reason for the original decision or for the new dicision.  The closest he comes is to say that it was a mistake.,

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