When will Macs support USB 2.0?

cdhostage · January 16, 2002 8:41AM

<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23699.html"; target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/23699.html</a>;

This reminded me that Mintoshes are still all on USB 1.1. Does Apple want to come out with Firewire 2 with its super high bandwidth before coming out with USB 2, which is slightly faster than Firewire 1?

Perhaps more to the point, is it reasonable to expect either faster firewire or faster USB in the next PowerMac?

codewarrior · January 16, 2002 9:00AM

I don't expect to see USB 2.0 on the mobo for at least 1 year (if ever). Not a whole lot of USB 2.0 stuff is shipping (PCs or products) so no real need. Since it competes with FireWire, Apple will not want to push it. Probably a good 3rd party opportunity for the next couple of years.

hmurchison · January 16, 2002 9:11AM

Many people on these boards have mentioned what "step up" features will the Powermacs have over the iMac. I believe the next Powermacs will have faster Firewire and USB 2.0. This will make differentiating between an iMac and a Tower much easier. I don't think Apple is really afraid to push USB or they wouldn't have went all USB in the first place. Firewire is a great technology and it will fuel the Desktop Video Revolution ..FW is in no real danger but adding USB 2.0 is important to take advantage is the future peripherals that will connect via this standard. Apple must remain committed to offering tomorrows technology today and not fall prey to limiting OUR choices because of some personal crusade.

amidala · January 16, 2002 1:17PM

FireWire and USB are not competitors.

USB is made for simple devices, such as mice and keyboards. Webcams and Drives that don't use much speed.

USB2 works with these devices still since it keeps the same form factor, but is still not good for Video due to the large size of the connectors (mini cameras don't have the space).

Firewire is good for video, and firewire2 will be even better (with three different connection heads, it has much more diversity).

Firewire will always be for the things that NEED SPEED (read: HDTV Camcorders). USB will be there for the less expensive add-ons to the comptuer.

Andrew

kidred · January 16, 2002 1:18PM

When firewire4 comes out.

marcuk · January 16, 2002 1:26PM

I hope Apple don't adopt USB2. Simply, although USB and Firewire arn't direct competitiors, USB2.0 IS more of a competitor to Firewire. If it wasn;t for apple, USB might have been much slower off the ground, Given that most people dont need Firewire2, USB2 might be good enough to stop manufacturers developing Firewire peripherals.

hmurchison · January 16, 2002 1:48PM

USB 2.0 and Firewire are most definitely competitors. They both hook up very similar devices. Apple will have to keep expousing the virtues of FW,no need for Hubs though they exist if you want one, Asychronous speeds(slower FW devices don't slow the whole chain down). Better support for multimedia and device control. All in all I say we need both. If Computer manufacturers want people to start buying PC's again...they'd better keep us happy.

dosal · January 16, 2002 2:03PM

when hell freezes over

amidala · January 16, 2002 3:05PM

[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:

USB 2.0 and Firewire are most definitely competitors. They both hook up very similar devices. Apple will have to keep expousing the virtues of FW,no need for Hubs though they exist if you want one, Asychronous speeds(slower FW devices don't slow the whole chain down). Better support for multimedia and device control. All in all I say we need both. If Computer manufacturers want people to start buying PC's again...they'd better keep us happy.<hr></blockquote>

If we NEED both then they are competing.

We don't NEED both Windows and OS-X, so they are competing.

The manufacturers of devices know the virtues of different connections. Firewire is small and fast.

USB is larger and slower.

Even USB2 is slower than Firewire2.

And if you dont' think that developers will find away to use the speeds of FW2, then you're very silly. Give them the ability, and they will make the products.

Andrew

berbercarpet · January 16, 2002 5:35PM

Firewire 2 will win out over USB 2 the way USB 1.1 has won out over Firewire 1.

---

There *are* Firewire 1 devices available--no shortage thereof. But there are *way more* USB 1.1 devices available.

Use to be, you couldn't find a USB printer, now they're coming with no serial/parralel support.

Microsoft has stated that it preferres Firewire over USB and Apple couldn't be more thrilled.

The next round of Inkjet printers will be Firewire 1/USB1.1 the way portable harddrives are now.

The next-next round will be Firewire2/USB 1.1.

After that: just Firewire.

neomac · January 16, 2002 5:46PM

[quote]Originally posted by cdhostage:

When will Macs support USB 2.0?<hr></blockquote>

Hey numb-nuts, Apple does support USB 2.0. It's called FireWire. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

berbercarpet · January 16, 2002 6:14PM

[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:

Hey numb-nuts<hr></blockquote>

Classy, NeoMac, just classy.

Now I have to go boil myself.

cdhostage · January 16, 2002 7:23PM

[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:



Hey numb-nuts, Apple does support USB 2.0. It's called FireWire. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> <hr></blockquote>

Wrong.

May the fleas of a thousand reindeer infest your genitals.

applenut · January 16, 2002 7:47PM

nally posted by hmurchison:

Many people on these boards have mentioned what "step up" features will the Powermacs have over the iMac. I believe the next Powermacs will have faster Firewire and USB 2.0. This will make differentiating between an iMac and a Tower much easier. I don't think Apple is really afraid to push USB or they wouldn't have went all USB in the first place. Firewire is a great technology and it will fuel the Desktop Video Revolution ..FW is in no real danger but adding USB 2.0 is important to take advantage is the future peripherals that will connect via this standard. Apple must remain committed to offering tomorrows technology today and not fall prey to limiting OUR choices because of some personal crusade.[/QUOTE]

that would suck and is a bad business practice. something basic like peripheral connectivity should not differtiate models.

that is dumb, very dumb

sexvegan · January 17, 2002 2:05AM

<a href="http://www.macally.com/spec/usb/connecting_device/uh2222.html"; target="_blank">http://www.macally.com/spec/usb/connecting_device/uh2222.html</a>;

Features

tÂ*

Â?\tProvides 2 USB2.0 Hi-Speed Type A ports

Â?

\tConnects both USB 2.0 and USB 1.1 Devices to your computer simultaneously

Â?

\tSupports all USB speeds: USB 2.0 EHCI 480 Mbps and USB 1.1 OHCI 12 Mbps

Â?\tProvide up to 500mA each port

Â?\tPlug & Play

Â?\tLifetime warranty

System Requirements:

Â?

\tAny Macintosh with a PCI 2.1 compliant slot

Â?\tMacOS 10.1.1 or later for USB2.0

Â?\tMacOS 8.6 to 9.X for USB1.0

Specifications:

Â?\tFCC Part15, Class B, & CE

Â?\tNet Weight : 2.4 oz

Â?\tDimensions : (W) 2.5",(L) 4.8",(H) 0.7"

Part Number:

Â?\tUH2-222

MSRP:

Â?\tUS $39.00

<a href="http://www.macally.com/spec/usb/connecting_device/uh2225.html"; target="_blank">http://www.macally.com/spec/usb/connecting_device/uh2225.html</a>;

Features

tÂ*

Â?

\tProvides 5 USB2.0 Hi-Speed Type A ports

(4 external & 1 internal)

Â?

\tConnects both USB 2.0 and USB 1.1 Devices to your computer simultaneously

Â?

\tSupports all USB speeds: USB 2.0 EHCI 480 Mbps and USB 1.1 OHCI 12 Mbps

Â?\tProvide up to 500mA each port

Â?\tPlug & Play

Â?\tLifetime warranty

System Requirements:

Â?

\tAny Macintosh with a PCI 2.1 compliant slot

Â?\tMacOS 10.1.1 or later for USB2.0

Â?\tMacOS 8.6 to 9.X for USB1.0

Specifications:

Â?\tFCC Part15, Class B, & CE

Â?\tNet Weight : 2.4 oz

Â?\tDimensions : (W) 2.5",(L) 4.8",(H) 0.7"

Part Number:

Â?\tUH2-225

MSRP:

Â?\tUS $59.00

eugene · January 17, 2002 7:55AM

applenut: Small USB connectors exist. You see these on laptops like VAIOs and digital cameras all the time. Small USB 2 connectors exist as well.

amidala: Well, USB is theoretically faster than FireWire. And in ideal conditions, that is very true. FireWire is less dependent on CPU however. FireWire also supports isosynchronous data transfer, which guarantees bandwidth to a particular device. FireWire can also supply more power to devices.

Berber: FireWire was always in a different category. USB 1.1 did not compete with FireWire. 50 MB/s is a lot different than 1.5 MB/s. However, 60 MB/s from USB 2.0 vs 50 MB/s from FireWire is a minor threat. The next generation of FireWire will most likely not be threatened by USB 2.0 *unless* people just decide they don't need that kind of bandwidth...100 MB/s or more. That is very unlikely as long as FireWire 2 is priced within reach and is more robust.

nonsuch · January 17, 2002 10:57AM

Everything I've heard suggests USB 2.0's supposed Firewire-like speed is a pipe dream. I don't think normal users are going to see anywhere near the peak speeds being touted for USB 2. Firewire 1 will still be faster, and Firewire 2 will settle it once and for all.

macgregor · January 17, 2002 1:10PM

Macs certainly don't need anything else, such as USB2 eating up processor cycles (which I think is true.) Sony likes Firewire. We don't need our keyboards to type operate at 10x the speed as is current so why do we need USB2.

Once you make the switch to being a "digital hub" you have to start getting your direction from the makers of the digital periferals. If everyone goes to USB2, then so should Apple. If everyone sticks with FW, then so should Apple. More than every Apple needs to follow the market and only occasionally set the standards where it makes sense and they have the technological advantage...ie Airport.

hmurchison · January 17, 2002 1:57PM

Quote:

Originally posted by applenut:

nally posted by hmurchison:

[qb]Many people on these boards have mentioned what "step up" features will the Powermacs have over the iMac. I believe the next Powermacs will have faster Firewire and USB 2.0. This will make differentiating between an iMac and a Tower much easier. I don't think Apple is really afraid to push USB or they wouldn't have went all USB in the first place. Firewire is a great technology and it will fuel the Desktop Video Revolution ..FW is in no real danger but adding USB 2.0 is important to take advantage is the future peripherals that will connect via this standard. Apple must remain committed to offering tomorrows technology today and not fall prey to limiting OUR choices because of some personal crusade.<hr></blockquote>

that would suck and is a bad business practice. something basic like peripheral connectivity should not differtiate models.

that is dumb, very dumb[/QB]

Precisely Applenut that's what scares me. Apple is not afraid to piss people off a bit.

gordy · January 17, 2002 2:50PM

Are there any USB 2 peripherals out now, with Mac drivers? That would be the next headache. Apple has put a lot of work into USB audio, HID and USB mass storage support. Embracing 2.0 means redoing all of this, while realizing that they're possibly hurting FireWire's positioning. Fat chance. 1.1 has a place, 2.0 doesn't.

This is one reason why I'm not buying an iMac. And if 2.0 does become a player in the Mac arena, I'll just buy a card for my G4.

i have questions · January 17, 2002 3:08PM

[quote]Originally posted by CodeWarrior:

I don't expect to see USB 2.0 on the mobo for at least 1 year (if ever). Not a whole lot of USB 2.0 stuff is shipping (PCs or products) so no real need.<hr></blockquote>

When I went to Best Buy yesterday, the place was FILLED with USB 2.0 devices. Mostly CD-RWs and external HDDs that used to be only FireWire. I don't know where you live or how often you leave your house, but USB 2.0 is going to be everyone in a hurry.

I'm not saying it's better or preferable -- I just get tired of reading crap like "no USB 2.0 stuff is shipping" on these boards. What happened to all the smart people?

When will Macs support USB 2.0?

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