It has different details on the back! So if Ford were to accidentally copy the look of a Ferrari to where people can't tell the difference from more than a few feet away, it would actually be find because what's under the hood would still look different? Could this judge tell the difference when NOT looking at the back of the Tab?
Ugh, what a crock.
That's the thing about design patents that always confuses me. Since you make a car analogy, I have a couple examples: A Chrysler 300m looks like Bentley, Hyundai Genesis looks a lot like a Mercedes Benz, Honda NSX looks like a Ferrari. I'd say those are just as similar as the iPad is to the Galaxy. Why don't we see a lot more of these suits?
It's quite common in British law for companies to be made to issue public apologies if they've been found to have defamed or libelled someone. The newspapers have to do it all the time, so this case is not without precedent.
No it isn't.
Newspapers do it as a result of a voluntary code, and occasionally as the result of losing a libel case. But "quite common" is a bit of a stretch. I can't think of one example. Presumably you have many?
It has to start somewhere. I am glad the judge ruled that way. The idea the square is invented by Apple is absolutely absurd. I like Apple products and all, but this one was a stupid suit to begin with.
The most charitable correction I can offer is that the iPad is not a square, it's a rectangle. Although it does appropriately sets the tone for your comment's level of intelligent contribution.
One of the baseless, unproven, so-called "principles" of the quackery known as neurolinguistic programming is that the human brain does not store negation. ...
Do manga carts and the bill of rights not ring a bell? We have the right of free speech in the uk, just like the USA.
Thanks for playing though.
The magna carta - an ancient charter for Barons which led to no liberty for anyone else - has no legal status. There is no constitutional regard for free speech in the UK, as there is no constitution. The twitter trial, the racist tweets, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK
You obviously didn't read the article. The Judge has not granted Apple leave to appeal to a higher court. His decision is final and binding. If Apple fails to comply they will be fined and/or someone will go to prison.
it has the right to appeal. The article has changed.
I do think that
1) The Apple spokesman should have said nothing when the case went against them.
Edit: scratch that. Apple merely said that "It's no coincidence that Samsung's latest products look a lot like the iPhone and iPad, from the shape of the hardware to the user interface and even the packaging"
latest products: not the Tab.
2) They should just forget the Tab. Times have moved on. Stop wasting time.
There is something decidedly discriminatory in both the tone & manner, and rulings directed toward Apple by this particular judge...
Apple has similar lawsuits all over the world. Each has had slightly different results, but none quite as egregious in attitude as in this particular court. One should not be punished for bringing what one thinks is a justifiable suit (and I think it's even more questionable to treat Apple this way, given the history of this and other cases that demonstrate that Apple's position is entirely legitimate).
When I first saw a Galaxy Tab from a distance, I thought for a moment it was an iPad… then immediately thought, oh, something's weird with that one (because it seemed longer, due to its 16:9 dimensions). Other than that, it and their nexus phone could both be mistaken for Apple products at a glance.
That kind of blatant copying of design and finishing style is now OK apparently……? "look-alike" products, not a problem, eh?
SO what's the point of a trademark, copyright or patent then?
check your facts, apple, via it's official spokesman, did make explicit public accusations about samsung, so you are the one spouting drivel
as this thread seems to be rapidly turning into yet another fact-free stream of childish nonsense, let's be clear
on july 9th apple lost it's case in the high court, follwing which an apple spokesman is quoted in the uk press as saying...
a rather childish fit of pique from apple, so it's no surprise that the judge took exception to this blatant act of contempt, and as a result decided that...
the law may sometimes be an ass, but in the uk you don't **** around with judges, they bite
maybe they'll be stupid enough to try it again, next time they could end up in prison
Just a second - you (and/or the UK press) took the quote from an Apple spokesman out of context. That quote was referring to the ruling in the US case, and if you dig further you'd know that this is the statement that Apple has used regarding cases around the world since last April. The judge didn't rule Apple was in contempt of court for comments made, unless you have information the rest of us do not.
Proof is in the pudding, as they say. Before Apple's iPad, there was no lack of companies making tablets, they were made, they were pushed, they were shown around and hyped. Nothing came of them. To the dump, all of them.
iPad was shown, just 3 years ago. It was cool, it did stuff, it was touch like the iPhone but better in many ways. Where everyone before had failed, Apple succeeded. Why? Because Apple created a product that worked, and on many levels.
Now, everyone and his mother are coming out with tablets, which they claim don't copy Apple. Horse hockey! If Apple merely created a market for tablets, then their competitors should just offer their old junk and see how that flies. Bet they wouldn't sell, and they couldn't give them away.
No, Apple's competitors stole the essence of the iPad -- they had to to compete. The iPad is the emergent result of many technical parts, many of which existed before, but were tweaked by Apple engineers and combined in ways others had failed to see.
Yes, Apple's competitors all had the hydrogen and oxygen, but it was Apple who made the water.
I read the first page... laughed, and then decided to try and explain this. The UK has pretty stringent libel laws. If you make a complaint to a court for the purpose of a lawsuit, and it is decided by the court that your complaint was wrong, then by definition of making the complaint, your statement is considered libelous. Therefore you have to publicly retract the statement.
This probably seems odd, especially to those in the US, however in the UK you cannot simply sue with impunity, lose and continue to assert your complaint. By taking it to court, you're asking a judge to determine if the complaint is true. If they decide no, you're technically making a libelous claim.
Apple's lawyers in the UK would have known and advised of this risk before taking it to court. You win some, you lose some.
The other thing which confuses me is the Judge's belief that he is supposed to be concerned with "Informed Consumers" only. He says himself that:
He said: "When I first saw the Samsung products in this case I was struck by how similar they look to the Apple design when they are resting on a table.
"They look similar because they both have the same front screen. It stands out.
"However, to the informed user - which at that stage I was not - these screens do not stand out to anything like the same extent.
So if every user gets to be a judge in a trial on the issue, they will get the differences. Is this the way trade dress usually works?
The article as it presently stands, as far as I could see, does not mention if Apple has the right to appeal or not but says that Apple will have to advertise in newspapers and magazines as well as on their own website in the uk for 6 months about this result. I would include a link to the macrumors article or a similar one though as part of whatever advert that Apple may need to make as well as the galaxy tab not being cool comment from the judge, whether he meant it or not. One other thing that was not specified was what the specifics of the advertising should be. Could it be an eighth of a page in the back of some magazine that nobody reads or does it need to be in a tech magazine. How big does the newspaper ad need to be and what does it need to say.
I am sure this is not the last we will hear about this.
I read the first page... laughed, and then decided to try and explain this. The UK has pretty stringent libel laws. If you make a complaint to a court for the purpose of a lawsuit, and it is decided by the court that your complaint was wrong, then by definition of making the complaint, your statement is considered libelous. Therefore you have to publicly retract the statement.
This probably seems odd, especially to those in the US, however in the UK you cannot simply sue with impunity, lose and continue to assert your complaint. By taking it to court, you're asking a judge to determine if the complaint is true. If they decide no, you're technically making a libelous claim.
Apple's lawyers in the UK would have known and advised of this risk before taking it to court. You win some, you lose some.
Newspapers do it as a result of a voluntary code, and occasionally as the result of losing a libel case. But "quite common" is a bit of a stretch. I can't think of one example. Presumably you have many?
You have no idea what you're talking about. Barely a month goes by without someone suing one or more of the newspapers for libel. I'm not saying they always win but if they do they usually have to publish an apology. Nothing to do with that waste of space PCC voluntary code which has been shown to be a sham by the Leveson Inquiry.
I suppose the last big one I can think of is Christopher Jefferies successfully suing a number of newspapers for libel last year over the Joanna Yates murder. I guess you don't remember that case - it is was only the lead news story for days across TV and the Press here. I'm sure I could find a lot more celebrity cases if I could be bothered to Google it but I'll leave that to you.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep
It has different details on the back! So if Ford were to accidentally copy the look of a Ferrari to where people can't tell the difference from more than a few feet away, it would actually be find because what's under the hood would still look different? Could this judge tell the difference when NOT looking at the back of the Tab?
Ugh, what a crock.
That's the thing about design patents that always confuses me. Since you make a car analogy, I have a couple examples: A Chrysler 300m looks like Bentley, Hyundai Genesis looks a lot like a Mercedes Benz, Honda NSX looks like a Ferrari. I'd say those are just as similar as the iPad is to the Galaxy. Why don't we see a lot more of these suits?
IANAL so just trying to understand.
No it isn't.
Newspapers do it as a result of a voluntary code, and occasionally as the result of losing a libel case. But "quite common" is a bit of a stretch. I can't think of one example. Presumably you have many?
Quote:
Originally Posted by therealestmc
It has to start somewhere. I am glad the judge ruled that way. The idea the square is invented by Apple is absolutely absurd. I like Apple products and all, but this one was a stupid suit to begin with.
The most charitable correction I can offer is that the iPad is not a square, it's a rectangle. Although it does appropriately sets the tone for your comment's level of intelligent contribution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeJay2012
"Justice is blind" ?.. Forgive me. I could not resist.
And apparently looks more like a dog with sunglasses and a fancy bib.
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney
One of the baseless, unproven, so-called "principles" of the quackery known as neurolinguistic programming is that the human brain does not store negation. ...
Fixed that for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artistry
Beg pardon?
Do manga carts and the bill of rights not ring a bell? We have the right of free speech in the uk, just like the USA.
Thanks for playing though.
The magna carta - an ancient charter for Barons which led to no liberty for anyone else - has no legal status. There is no constitutional regard for free speech in the UK, as there is no constitution. The twitter trial, the racist tweets, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK
You obviously didn't read the article. The Judge has not granted Apple leave to appeal to a higher court. His decision is final and binding. If Apple fails to comply they will be fined and/or someone will go to prison.
it has the right to appeal. The article has changed.
I do think that
1) The Apple spokesman should have said nothing when the case went against them.
Edit: scratch that. Apple merely said that "It's no coincidence that Samsung's latest products look a lot like the iPhone and iPad, from the shape of the hardware to the user interface and even the packaging"
latest products: not the Tab.
2) They should just forget the Tab. Times have moved on. Stop wasting time.
3) Nevertheless appeal this stupid decision.
There is something decidedly discriminatory in both the tone & manner, and rulings directed toward Apple by this particular judge...
Apple has similar lawsuits all over the world. Each has had slightly different results, but none quite as egregious in attitude as in this particular court. One should not be punished for bringing what one thinks is a justifiable suit (and I think it's even more questionable to treat Apple this way, given the history of this and other cases that demonstrate that Apple's position is entirely legitimate).
When I first saw a Galaxy Tab from a distance, I thought for a moment it was an iPad… then immediately thought, oh, something's weird with that one (because it seemed longer, due to its 16:9 dimensions). Other than that, it and their nexus phone could both be mistaken for Apple products at a glance.
That kind of blatant copying of design and finishing style is now OK apparently……? "look-alike" products, not a problem, eh?
SO what's the point of a trademark, copyright or patent then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by umumum
check your facts, apple, via it's official spokesman, did make explicit public accusations about samsung, so you are the one spouting drivel
as this thread seems to be rapidly turning into yet another fact-free stream of childish nonsense, let's be clear
on july 9th apple lost it's case in the high court, follwing which an apple spokesman is quoted in the uk press as saying...
a rather childish fit of pique from apple, so it's no surprise that the judge took exception to this blatant act of contempt, and as a result decided that...
the law may sometimes be an ass, but in the uk you don't **** around with judges, they bite
maybe they'll be stupid enough to try it again, next time they could end up in prison
Just a second - you (and/or the UK press) took the quote from an Apple spokesman out of context. That quote was referring to the ruling in the US case, and if you dig further you'd know that this is the statement that Apple has used regarding cases around the world since last April. The judge didn't rule Apple was in contempt of court for comments made, unless you have information the rest of us do not.
Apple need to stay focused on innovations instead of wasting resources and talents on suing its competition.
Apple should know that their customers are paying premium prices for innovations not to fund the fightings in court rooms around the world.
Perhaps, Apple need to appologize to its customers for wasting customer's money in the court rooms.. Otherwise, we should stop buying Apple products.
Proof is in the pudding, as they say. Before Apple's iPad, there was no lack of companies making tablets, they were made, they were pushed, they were shown around and hyped. Nothing came of them. To the dump, all of them.
iPad was shown, just 3 years ago. It was cool, it did stuff, it was touch like the iPhone but better in many ways. Where everyone before had failed, Apple succeeded. Why? Because Apple created a product that worked, and on many levels.
Now, everyone and his mother are coming out with tablets, which they claim don't copy Apple. Horse hockey! If Apple merely created a market for tablets, then their competitors should just offer their old junk and see how that flies. Bet they wouldn't sell, and they couldn't give them away.
No, Apple's competitors stole the essence of the iPad -- they had to to compete. The iPad is the emergent result of many technical parts, many of which existed before, but were tweaked by Apple engineers and combined in ways others had failed to see.
Yes, Apple's competitors all had the hydrogen and oxygen, but it was Apple who made the water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd
Correct. Judge Birss has granted Apple's request to ask the Court of Appeal to have a look-see.
Do it in Korean.
I read the first page... laughed, and then decided to try and explain this. The UK has pretty stringent libel laws. If you make a complaint to a court for the purpose of a lawsuit, and it is decided by the court that your complaint was wrong, then by definition of making the complaint, your statement is considered libelous. Therefore you have to publicly retract the statement.
This probably seems odd, especially to those in the US, however in the UK you cannot simply sue with impunity, lose and continue to assert your complaint. By taking it to court, you're asking a judge to determine if the complaint is true. If they decide no, you're technically making a libelous claim.
Apple's lawyers in the UK would have known and advised of this risk before taking it to court. You win some, you lose some.
The other thing which confuses me is the Judge's belief that he is supposed to be concerned with "Informed Consumers" only. He says himself that:
He said: "When I first saw the Samsung products in this case I was struck by how similar they look to the Apple design when they are resting on a table.
"They look similar because they both have the same front screen. It stands out.
"However, to the informed user - which at that stage I was not - these screens do not stand out to anything like the same extent.
So if every user gets to be a judge in a trial on the issue, they will get the differences. Is this the way trade dress usually works?
I just remember this from the judge in the US
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/10/14/samsung-lawyers-also-struggle-to-tell-ipad-and-galaxy-tab-apart/
The article as it presently stands, as far as I could see, does not mention if Apple has the right to appeal or not but says that Apple will have to advertise in newspapers and magazines as well as on their own website in the uk for 6 months about this result. I would include a link to the macrumors article or a similar one though as part of whatever advert that Apple may need to make as well as the galaxy tab not being cool comment from the judge, whether he meant it or not. One other thing that was not specified was what the specifics of the advertising should be. Could it be an eighth of a page in the back of some magazine that nobody reads or does it need to be in a tech magazine. How big does the newspaper ad need to be and what does it need to say.
I am sure this is not the last we will hear about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artistry
Beg pardon?
Do manga carts and the bill of rights not ring a bell? We have the right of free speech in the uk, just like the USA.
Thanks for playing though.
Hah! I think the judge knows better than you.
I'd say just pull iPads from the UK. Maybe the judge can handle illegal imports and an unhappy public instead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook
I read the first page... laughed, and then decided to try and explain this. The UK has pretty stringent libel laws. If you make a complaint to a court for the purpose of a lawsuit, and it is decided by the court that your complaint was wrong, then by definition of making the complaint, your statement is considered libelous. Therefore you have to publicly retract the statement.
This probably seems odd, especially to those in the US, however in the UK you cannot simply sue with impunity, lose and continue to assert your complaint. By taking it to court, you're asking a judge to determine if the complaint is true. If they decide no, you're technically making a libelous claim.
Apple's lawyers in the UK would have known and advised of this risk before taking it to court. You win some, you lose some.
really - can you link to similar cases?
Quote:
Originally Posted by artistry
No it isn't.
Newspapers do it as a result of a voluntary code, and occasionally as the result of losing a libel case. But "quite common" is a bit of a stretch. I can't think of one example. Presumably you have many?
You have no idea what you're talking about. Barely a month goes by without someone suing one or more of the newspapers for libel. I'm not saying they always win but if they do they usually have to publish an apology. Nothing to do with that waste of space PCC voluntary code which has been shown to be a sham by the Leveson Inquiry.
I suppose the last big one I can think of is Christopher Jefferies successfully suing a number of newspapers for libel last year over the Joanna Yates murder. I guess you don't remember that case - it is was only the lead news story for days across TV and the Press here. I'm sure I could find a lot more celebrity cases if I could be bothered to Google it but I'll leave that to you.