Apple wins EU-wide ban on Samsung Galaxy Tab 7.7, loses Galaxy Tab 10.1N appeal

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 49
    mauszmausz Posts: 243member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


     


     


    Design = technical.


    Like architecture + structural engineering = Design.


    Design is not scribbling.



     


    Good choice of words, did you acutally see the design on which this claim is based... it's a scribbling...


     


    There is visual design and structural design... This ruling is based on a visual design.


     


    image

  • Reply 22 of 49
    zozmanzozman Posts: 393member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


     


     


    Keep this muslin fear-mongering out of this discussion.


    We need NO Fascist here!


     


    Turkey is a modern country, growing farther than any other European country.


    Serbia is a lot less Democratic than Turkey.



     


    Haha that's not what i meant.


    What i mean is, how can the EU Work if counties that aren't as economically strong as Germany or France (i would say the same thing about Serbia if they were in the EU) So if someone from Greece lets say goes to Germany to work then takes all their money back to Greece (Greece isn't doing very well) so Germany's economy is going to be effected, I know it should all even out, its all interesting.


     


     




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    If that 7.7n isn't a carbon copy of Apple's design then they have done something right, late but that's a different story


     




     


    I have a Galaxy tab 7.7 in one hand & the new iPad in the other, i'm not sure what people are smoking but it does not look or feel the same.

    just doesn't

  • Reply 23 of 49
    ochymingochyming Posts: 474member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mausz View Post


     


    Good choice of words, did you acutally see the design on which this claim is based... it's a scribbling...


     


    There is visual design and structural design... This ruling is based on a visual design.


     


    image



     


     


    really?


     


    Have seen any of Frank Ghery design?


    image


     


    Now imagine how much that have being reDesigned to feat engineering realization?


    The end result is called Design, because in the end it can serve a purpose like any design.


    It costs money, it take time and advanced math.

  • Reply 24 of 49
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post



    This decision is totally illogical because the 7 inches Tab doesn't really look like an iPad. It's obviously smaller and features no home button.

    On the other hand the 10 inches version is pretty much a ripoff of the iPad...but it isn't banned?? Why isn't Samsung obliged to put a disclaimer on their website saying that they copied?

    Also, I fail to see how a court in Germany can decide for a ban on the whole EU, it doesn't work that way.


     


    Size and a home button aren't the only factors in the design patent. 


     


    As for the whole Germany question there are deals between the member states that give some jurisdictional authority of this type for certain matters. We'll see if this matter is one of them or if Samsung turns around and appeals the ban for outside of Germany on the grounds that Germany's courts don't have such authority (and win the appeal). 

  • Reply 25 of 49
    andreidandreid Posts: 96member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


     


     


    Rubbish!


    Are you suggesting that judicial system is rigged!?


     


     


    The right-wing dominance of Europe right now, lead by Frankfurt nutHeads has nothing to do with this court-fight.


     


     


    Germans actually like Apple produce things.


    The Best creative firms are German firms , so they DO mind about copycats like Samsung.



    No, i didn't say that the judicial system is rigged. I was just referring to the latest "economic" decisions.


     


    Speaking of judiciary competence and to clear up this issue:


     


    Quoted from the Regulation 44/2001:


     


    (10) For the purposes of the free movement of judgments, judgments given in a Member State bound by this Regulation should be recognised and enforced in another Member State bound by this Regulation, even if the judgment debtor is domiciled in a third State.


     


  • Reply 26 of 49
    ochymingochyming Posts: 474member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


     


    Haha that's not what i meant.


    What i mean is, how can the EU Work if counties that aren't as economically strong as Germany or France (i would say the same thing about Serbia if they were in the EU) So if someone from Greece lets say goes to Germany to work then takes all their money back to Greece (Greece isn't doing very well) so Germany's economy is going to be effected, I know it should all even out, its all interesting.


     


     




     


     


    I have a Galaxy tab 7.7 in one hand & the new iPad in the other, i'm not sure what people are smoking but it does not look or feel the same.

    just doesn't



     


     


    again you do not know WHAT you are talking about.


     


    Lets look at USA for example.


    How rich states like New York can co-exist in a Federation with a poorer state like Mississippi?


    Like how The housing crisis in Florida was resolves compared with What is happening to spain and Italy in Europe?


    By the way German firms endUp buying the primary work creators of those two countries, isn´t that telling?


     


    --- Ferrari and Lamborghini are now German owned as is Seat. 


     


    Back to the USA, there are transfer of money from the rich to the poorer states ( the irony is that the poorer states are more conservative leaned than the rich ones ).


    This transfer will be difficult in the EU, because it is NOT a country.


    EU is A faulty realization at its core. Because there is not a federal government or a central bank that does it jobs as such.


     


    Again Turkey is growing economically faster than Germany.

  • Reply 27 of 49
    andreidandreid Posts: 96member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    Size and a home button aren't the only factors in the design patent. 


     


    As for the whole Germany question there are deals between the member states that give some jurisdictional authority of this type for certain matters. We'll see if this matter is one of them or if Samsung turns around and appeals the ban for outside of Germany on the grounds that Germany's courts don't have such authority (and win the appeal). 



    This is done deal: (10) For the purposes of the free movement of judgments, judgments given in a Member State bound by this Regulation should be recognised and enforced in another Member State bound by this Regulation, even if the judgment debtor is domiciled in a third State.


     


  • Reply 28 of 49
    ochymingochyming Posts: 474member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AndreiD View Post


    No, i didn't say that the judicial system is rigged. I was just referring to the latest "economic" decisions.


     


    Speaking of judiciary competence and to clear up this issue:


     


    Quoted from the Regulation 44/2001:


     


    (10) For the purposes of the free movement of judgments, judgments given in a Member State bound by this Regulation should be recognised and enforced in another Member State bound by this Regulation, even if the judgment debtor is domiciled in a third State.


     



     


     


    Get at look at European Patent Convention.


    Was it dictated by Germany?


     


    BTW remember how France reacted to a possible breach of security regarding Renault greenEnergy patents? 


    Countries that actually thrive on creativity like Germany are very serious regarding IP.

  • Reply 29 of 49
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    andreid wrote: »
    haha you're clearly not a layer are you?


    It's like saying it's illogical since the first shape doesn't really look like the second shape since it's obviously smaller and features no black color.
    400
    Second statement: please read the article again or dig in the history of the German court disputes between Apple and Scumsung (really like this term-hope it's not copyrighted :P ).
    Last statement: Please remember that nowadays, pretty much EU = Germany. As for the jurisdictional standpoint i'm not sure entirely since you'd have to read exactly the Court's ruling.

    No, I'm not a 'layer'. Are you a layer?
    The 7.7 is not only noticeably smaller, it also has a different aspect ratio, no home button, a different back and a big samsung written on front. What I find illogical, and I think my sentence isn't really subject to debate (but there'll always be someone like you to say the contrary), is that the 10 inch tab is much much closer to an iPad than this.
    The EU is not Germany, you are being influenced too much by what's happening nowadays and you show a total lack of knowledge of what the EU is, you are either american or english.
    I'm not a lawyer but I know how justice works in the EU, and it's not because you think that EU=Germany that magically a decision in Germany will apply in the whole EU. That's not how it works here. There is stuff called regulations.

    Edit:
    Ah you're romanian...well, your view on the EU is wrong. Germany pretty much dictates the economic agenda, but it's being counterbalanced by countries like France, Italy, the UK and Spain, even in these difficult times. Anyway, regulations remains regulations and german courts can't impose anything for the whole EU.
  • Reply 30 of 49
    andreidandreid Posts: 96member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


     


     


    again you do not know WHAT you are talking about.


     


    Lets look at USA for example.


    How rich states like New York can co-exist in a Federation with a poorer state like Mississippi?


    Like how The housing crisis in Florida was resolves compared with What is happening to spain and Italy in Europe?


    By the way German firms endUp buying the primary work creators of those two countries, isn´t that telling?


     


    --- Ferrari and Lamborghini are now German owned as is Seat. 


     


    Back to the USA, there are transfer of money from the rich to the poorer states ( the irony is that the poorer states are more conservative leaned than the rich ones ).


    This transfer will be difficult in the EU, because it is NOT a country.


    EU is A faulty realization at its core. Because there is not a federal government or a central bank that does it jobs as such.


     


    Again Turkey is growing economically faster than Germany.



    Some of your points are valid some are not.


     


    As you pointed out correctly the most important flaw of EU's esatblishment is the lack of federal rulement especially no homogenous fiscal laws and fiscal control. From this reasons alone it's useless to compare US to EU.


     


    To my knowledge Lambo indeed is being owned by VAG but Ferrari is being owned by Fiat group.


     


    As for your last statement you should put some figures into perspective when making such a claim because you could say that Turkey is growing faster then Germany if you look at the GDP rate but at the same time you have to consider other factors, like other national indicators GDP per capita, unemployment, inflation rates, exports etc. AND the base line factors (meaning with what base line does it compare, because of course a less developed country could have the tendency to grow faster than an already strong developed country).

  • Reply 31 of 49
    zozmanzozman Posts: 393member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


     


     


    again you do not know WHAT you are talking about.


     


    Lets look at USA for example.


    How rich states like New York can co-exist in a Federation with a poorer state like Mississippi?


    Like how The housing crisis in Florida was resolves compared with What is happening to spain and Italy in Europe?


    By the way German firms endUp buying the primary work creators of those two countries, isn´t that telling?


     


    --- Ferrari and Lamborghini are now German owned as is Seat. 


     


    Back to the USA, there are transfer of money from the rich to the poorer states ( the irony is that the poorer states are more conservative leaned than the rich ones ).


    This transfer will be difficult in the EU, because it is NOT a country.


    EU is A faulty realization at its core. Because there is not a federal government or a central bank that does it jobs as such.


     


    Again Turkey is growing economically faster than Germany.



     


    Hey buddy you need to chill out, i was asking questions not stating facts.

     


    People get so defensive & aggressive so quickly, people don't need to be keyboard warriors, no ladies here to impress :p 


     


     


     


    I took some pics of my galaxy tab 7.7 & iPad, you can be the judge.


     


     


    image


     


    image

  • Reply 32 of 49
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    ochyming wrote: »

    Keep this muslin fear-mongering out of this discussion.
    We need NO Fascist here!

    Turkey is a modern country, growing farther than any other European country.
    Serbia is a lot less Democratic than Turkey.

    Mmmm...I've been to both countries and I have nothing to say against one or another. Saying that Serbia is less democratic than Turkey...no, absolutely not true. I'd say they're the same, just as any other modern country. Turkey still has some efforts to make in some rural areas about women rights. Serbians and Turks are both very nice people.
  • Reply 33 of 49
    andreidandreid Posts: 96member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post





    No, I'm not a 'layer'. Are you a layer?

    The 7.7 is not only noticeably smaller, it also has a different aspect ratio, no home button, a different back and a big samsung written on front. What I find illogical, and I think my sentence isn't really subject to debate (but there'll always be someone like you to say the contrary), is that the 10 inch tab is much much closer to an iPad than this.

    The EU is not Germany, you are being influenced too much by what's happening nowadays and you show a total lack of knowledge of what the EU is, you are either american or english.

    I'm not a lawyer but I know how justice works in the EU, and it's not because you think that EU=Germany that magically a decision in Germany will apply in the whole EU. That's not how it works here. There is stuff called regulations.

    Edit:

    Ah you're romanian...well, your view on the EU is wrong. Germany pretty much dictates the economic agenda, but it's being counterbalanced by countries like France, Italy, the UK and Spain, even in these difficult times. Ayway, regulations remains regulations and german courts can't impose anything for the whole EU.


    Ooops sorry for the typo. I meant lawyer. What are you like 16 to pick on typeos on a forum?


     


    Regarding the rest of your comments please read the EC regulation 44/2001 before stating "facts" like 'i know best', regardless of your nationality or the others' of this forum :)

  • Reply 34 of 49
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    You mean this?
    andreid wrote: »
    This is done deal: (10) For the purposes of the free movement of judgments, judgments given in a Member State bound by this Regulation should be recognised and enforced in another Member State bound by this Regulation, even if the judgment debtor is domiciled in a third State.
     

    That's a general introduction in the regulation,

    In the same regulation (44/2001):

    Exclusive jurisdiction
    Article 22

    4. in proceedings concerned with the registration or validity of patents, trade marks, designs, or other similar rights required to be deposited or registered, the courts of the Member State in which the deposit or registration has been applied for, has taken place or is under the terms of a Community instrument or an international convention deemed to have taken place.
    Without prejudice to the jurisdiction of the European Patent Office under the Convention on the Grant of European Patents, signed at Munich on 5 October 1973, the courts of each Member State shall have exclusive jurisdiction, regardless of domicile, in proceedings concerned with the registration or validity of any European patent granted for that State;

    That means that Germany has the exclusivity to have a court on trademark disputes. But any other country has exclusivity for the same thing applied in their country.

    Someone talked about Ferrari being german. I don't know if it's true but I'll be furious if it is! I have my doubts though.
  • Reply 35 of 49
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 1,480member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


     


    Hey buddy you need to chill out, i was asking questions not stating facts.

     


    People get so defensive & aggressive so quickly, people don't need to be keyboard warriors, no ladies here to impress :p 


     


     


     


    I took some pics of my galaxy tab 7.7 & iPad, you can be the judge.


     


     


    image


     


    image



     

    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

    They copied the hell out to the iPad.  I have the black and it looks identical to this Samsung with the exception of the home button.  They are a slimy company!


    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

     
  • Reply 36 of 49
    andreidandreid Posts: 96member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Ochyming View Post


     


     


    Get at look at European Patent Convention.


    Was it dictated by Germany?


     


    BTW remember how France reacted to a possible breach of security regarding Renault greenEnergy patents? 


    Countries that actually thrive on creativity like Germany are very serious regarding IP.



    Hmmm, i'm not sure i follow up with your point regarding the EPC. Reading the wiki link: "a multilateral treaty instituting the European Patent Organisation and providing an autonomous legal system according to which European patents are granted." While there are some statements to how patents are granted and ruled in the EU the question here was more regarding the court jurisdictional authority across all EU. As far as i know Apple filled all the patents in US but  i may be wrong and please correct me if so. It would be nice to see the actual ruling of the court because that would answer a lot of questions. The way i see it Apple (US or Germany) went after Samsung's subsidiary in Germany that acts as the mother company for the whole EU distribution. If that's the case then it makes sense that the legal action was promoted in Germany.


     


    Regarding your comments on Renault greenEnergy patents, on this subject i know nothing about so i can't really comment.

  • Reply 37 of 49
    zozmanzozman Posts: 393member
    genovelle wrote: »
    They copied the hell out to the iPad.  I have the black and it looks identical to this Samsung with the exception of the home button.  They are a slimy company!
     

    That's your opinion fair call.
    In person they don't feel the same & the super amoled give the screen a strange quality (colour tinge) I think they are different enough that people won't confuse them,
  • Reply 38 of 49
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,552member
    ochyming wrote: »

    Get at look at <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Patent_Convention" style="color:rgb(6,69,173);background-image:none;" target="_blank" title="European Patent Convention">European Patent Convention</a>
    .
    Was it dictated by Germany?

    BTW remember how France reacted to a possible breach of security regarding Renault greenEnergy patents? 
    Countries that actually thrive on creativity like Germany are very serious regarding IP.

    From that link:
    For a period in the late-1990's, national courts issued cross-border injunctions covering all EP jurisdictions, but this has been limited by the European Court of Justice. In two cases in July 2006 interpreting Articles 6.1 and 16.4 of the Brussels Convention, the European Court of Justice held that European patents are national rights that must be enforced nationally, that it was "unavoidable" that infringements of the same European patent have to be litigated in each relevant national court, even if the lawsuit is against the same group of companies, and that cross-border injunctions are not available.[52]

    Pretty clear to me.
  • Reply 39 of 49
    ochymingochyming Posts: 474member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


     


    Hey buddy you need to chill out, i was asking questions not stating facts.

     


    People get so defensive & aggressive so quickly, people don't need to be keyboard warriors, no ladies here to impress :p 


     


     


     


    I took some pics of my galaxy tab 7.7 & iPad, you can be the judge.


     


     


    image


     


    image



     


     


    AH!


    Women ARE smarter than men for them to be aroused by an ignorant like me!


     


    It is frivolous to put side to side two different cars both sporting the same engine and call them different at core.


    One thing is to be against patent, one thing IS to dismiss Apple right to defend/reenforce its fragile stance against cartels who fight to kill it - meaning windows and Android vendors, firms that do not NO research & development, they just sell the OS that Google and Microsoft develop.


     


    Apple is one company fighting against a myriad of BIG money Firms that spend almost NOTHING in R&D.!


     


    Apple like Germany will be dead in the water if they cannot protect their sole strategy of growth, creativity, against the copycat sellCheap-grab-marketshare minded companies.


     


    Is that difficult to understand?

  • Reply 40 of 49
    ochymingochyming Posts: 474member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post





    From that link:

    Pretty clear to me.


     


     


    I still fail to see the Germany hands all over it!

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