The story linked that supposedly proves carrier "unhappiness" contains a fact-free assertion by an analyst. Here's the quote:
Walter Piecyk's opinion isn't the basis for proof of anything.
I look forward to the day Apple decides to buy up the available white space from the FCC at auction for use in future iPhones and iPads. I'd rather pay Apple for wireless service than the scum they currently deal with.
multiple companies have said the same thing over and over.....
The problem with it is it encourages they sales-men/women to try to sell more androind smartphone..... which isn't truly a problem per sya, but probably does affect i{Phone profit in a very small way.
But I can't see how they can go much further with this cloud stuff without having control of the pipe. No one is going to download huge all their movies if the ISPs throttle your connection after your tenth movie, or the mobile broadband is too expensive to use.
I was thinking that Apple needs to offer high-speed, fixed-cost mobile connections if they want to avoid hitting the wall caused by stubborn pipe suppliers.
except for a few services like photo stream the cloud is a scam to get you into a low monthly payment forever. i work for a cloud company and sit next to some of our sales people
i'll take local storage and blu ray over streaming any day
Not all iPhone alternatives are 'trash' that costs less to make. It is Apples fault they demand a higher margin than anyone else.
Ah, the infamous 'Apple Tax'
You base that on some iFixIt type guess that the parts cost $75 per phone but that doesn't include the labor to assemble them, the licensing for various bits etc
As for what money is added on top of te actual costs to build, some of that money pays for the stores, the tech support, the free workshops etc. so they aren't actually making scads more profit.
Fault? Isn't that the purpose of running a business? Apple has created a series of products that are so much superior to the competition that they are able to obtain a significantly higher selling price (on average) than the competition while keeping manufacturing costs low. So that's supposed to be a problem now?
It just is.
What's interesting is the swing in the game. For the first 3 years Apple had to basically bend over on whatever AT&T wanted cause they needed the carrier. Not now. So if a carrier is really that upset they can kick rocks.
How, particularly since they don't. {command a larger margin than anyone else}
Actually, they do.
I don't know about the subsidies (and neither does anyone else here, probably), but in terms of margin, Apple clearly does get a larger margin than the competition. That's why Apple is profitable while few others are - even after letting Apple pay their R&D costs.
In the end, I suspect that the 'problem' of subsidies will go away for the carriers over the next decade. I'm already seeing a major shift to prepaid, unsubsidized plans in the US and, of course, they are already common in many other countries. Consumers are starting to realize how much the carriers rip them off with subsidies that continue after the contract period, recovery of 2-3 times the subsidy cost, and so on.
After all, you don't get your TV from Cox or Comcast with the cable company subsidizing some of the cost. You don't buy a car with the radio subsidized by Sirius. You don't buy a subsidized refrigerator with your local grocery store picking up some of the initial cost in exchange for a contract for groceries. The fact that cell phones operate with contracts and subsidies is an artifact that could well fade.
Of course, the same thing applies to cable companies in a different regard. I'm getting really sick of having my cable bill increase by 20% per year even without adding new services. Then, they advertise their $99 bundles on TV, but they only apply to new users. I've started playing their game - my internet/cable bill for $141 just dropped to $99 when I added phone service and left everything else unchanged. Even after the 6 month promotional period, it only goes up to $121 ($20 less than I was paying without phone service). When my one year commitment expires, I'll readjust the plan and find some other deal I'm qualified for. If I can't, it may be time to switch to dish.
When the subsidies go away and the carriers have to compete on service and price, I'm sure they'll be much happier. /s
I don't know about the subsidies (and neither does anyone else here, probably), but in terms of margin, Apple clearly does get a larger margin than the competition. That's why Apple is profitable while few others are - even after letting Apple pay their R&D costs.
In the end, I suspect that the 'problem' of subsidies will go away for the carriers over the next decade. I'm already seeing a major shift to prepaid, unsubsidized plans in the US and, of course, they are already common in many other countries. Consumers are starting to realize how much the carriers rip them off with subsidies that continue after the contract period, recovery of 2-3 times the subsidy cost, and so on.
After all, you don't get your TV from Cox or Comcast with the cable company subsidizing some of the cost. You don't buy a car with the radio subsidized by Sirius. You don't buy a subsidized refrigerator with your local grocery store picking up some of the initial cost in exchange for a contract for groceries. The fact that cell phones operate with contracts and subsidies is an artifact that could well fade.
Of course, the same thing applies to cable companies in a different regard. I'm getting really sick of having my cable bill increase by 20% per year even without adding new services. Then, they advertise their $99 bundles on TV, but they only apply to new users. I've started playing their game - my internet/cable bill for $141 just dropped to $99 when I added phone service and left everything else unchanged. Even after the 6 month promotional period, it only goes up to $121 ($20 less than I was paying without phone service). When my one year commitment expires, I'll readjust the plan and find some other deal I'm qualified for. If I can't, it may be time to switch to dish.
When the subsidies go away and the carriers have to compete on service and price, I'm sure they'll be much happier. /s
You may well be correct about carriers ditching subsidised handsets. Such a move would have a serious impact on the sales of higher end handsets with people no longer ditching their phones every 2 years. It would also lead to carriers having to find new ways of trying to keep customers locked into contracts.
Mind you it would be nice to see a shift away from the recent trend of 24 month contracts back to the 12 month ones.
i'm looking to do that. wife has a 4 and i have a 4S. Straight Talk is $40 - $45 a month per line unlimited everything. Virgin is the cheapest at $30 for 300 minutes and unlimited sms/data. i'm on wifi 90% of the time anyway.
I hate Siri and don't play too many games. there is very little difference for normal use in yearly iphone releases now. iOS will work 3 generations back. only reason to get a new phone now is if the old one breaks
i'm looking to do that. wife has a 4 and i have a 4S. Straight Talk is $40 - $45 a month per line unlimited everything.
Have you tried it already, or are you just looking into it? I just want to confirm this'll actually work before I drop coin on three unlocked iPhones for this purpose.
Have you tried it already, or are you just looking into it? I just want to confirm this'll actually work before I drop coin on three unlocked iPhones for this purpose.
my wife's 4 goes off contract next month and i'll try on her. even then ST is an AT&T MVNO and it's the same AT&T network. from what i've read you just need a slightly modified apn file which you can make yourself or get from a new zealand server. just google iphone apn file or something close to it
CDMA locks your phones to a carrier but not GSM/UMTS
prepaid cell and cancelling cable will free up close to $200 a month of after-tax money
my wife's 4 goes off contract next month and i'll try on her. even then ST is an AT&T MVNO and it's the same AT&T network. from what i've read you just need a slightly modified apn file which you can make yourself or get from a new zealand server. just google iphone apn file or something close to it
CDMA locks your phones to a carrier but not GSM/UMTS
But Straight Talk can also use CDMA, right? I think we need a thread dedicated to Straight Talk iPhones and getting them to work…
But Straight Talk can also use CDMA, right? I think we need a thread dedicated to Straight Talk iPhones and getting them to work…
i think so, but with CDMA its different. the carrier has to allow the phone ESN on the network or something like that. Cricket is a verizon MVNO and i've read rumors that unofficially they will allow verizon iphone ESN's on their network. not sure how straight talk will handle iphone ESN's.
my iphones have been on AT&T since 2009 and i plan to take them to straight talk soon.
i was waiting for the family shared data since last year because i wanted to get my inlaws to get iphones or galaxy phones. but the terms are beyond ridiculous and they don't want to pay anything extra. as it is now i pay for 4GB data and use around 1.5 or 2. no reason why i should pay more money to use that data just to "activate" a device on a network
I don't know about the subsidies (and neither does anyone else here, probably), but in terms of margin, Apple clearly does get a larger margin than the competition. That's why Apple is profitable while few others are - even after letting Apple pay their R&D costs.
In the end, I suspect that the 'problem' of subsidies will go away for the carriers over the next decade. I'm already seeing a major shift to prepaid, unsubsidized plans in the US and, of course, they are already common in many other countries. Consumers are starting to realize how much the carriers rip them off with subsidies that continue after the contract period, recovery of 2-3 times the subsidy cost, and so on.
After all, you don't get your TV from Cox or Comcast with the cable company subsidizing some of the cost. You don't buy a car with the radio subsidized by Sirius. You don't buy a subsidized refrigerator with your local grocery store picking up some of the initial cost in exchange for a contract for groceries. The fact that cell phones operate with contracts and subsidies is an artifact that could well fade.
Of course, the same thing applies to cable companies in a different regard. I'm getting really sick of having my cable bill increase by 20% per year even without adding new services. Then, they advertise their $99 bundles on TV, but they only apply to new users. I've started playing their game - my internet/cable bill for $141 just dropped to $99 when I added phone service and left everything else unchanged. Even after the 6 month promotional period, it only goes up to $121 ($20 less than I was paying without phone service). When my one year commitment expires, I'll readjust the plan and find some other deal I'm qualified for. If I can't, it may be time to switch to dish.
When the subsidies go away and the carriers have to compete on service and price, I'm sure they'll be much happier. /s
When my $59 contract ends on the 12th of August I am switching to the same plan, month to month for $45, until I upgrade to a contract again when a new iPhone launches.
I pay nothing for TV, don't use it enough and can always find something on free to air.
Unlimited ADSL 2+ is $60 pm with a phone line that I couldn't be bothered plugging a phone into.
my wife's 4 goes off contract next month and i'll try on her. even then ST is an AT&T MVNO and it's the same AT&T network. from what i've read you just need a slightly modified apn file which you can make yourself or get from a new zealand server. just google iphone apn file or something close to it
CDMA locks your phones to a carrier but not GSM/UMTS
prepaid cell and cancelling cable will free up close to $200 a month of after-tax money
Have you tried it already, or are you just looking into it? I just want to confirm this'll actually work before I drop coin on three unlocked iPhones for this purpose.
I did it - one iPhone and one Android phone. Both worked pretty well.
There are a few glitches. The New Zealand modification method didn't work for me. I was unable to receive data. I tried the Apple iPhone Configuration tool and that didn't work, either. Eventually, I had to jailbreak my phone and install the settings manually. That wasn't painless either - hours on the phone with Straight Talk trying different settings (it's as if they have no idea what settings to use so they keep trying options until they find one that works).
In the end, I got it working except that you had to turn WiFi off in order to send or receive an MMS message (but not a text message). Fortunately, Trumptman here recommended a fix for that problem so it's all working properly (although, oddly, my daughter's Android phone still requires that WiFi be turned off to send or receive MMS).
So, in the end, you'll probably have to play around with a variety of settings and the changeover isn't as easy as it should be, but it's possible to get it working. I've completed the first month and first refill and am quite happy - better plan (unlimited data) at just over half the price of AT&T. I will have to buy a different SIM to use the phone Internationally, but I should have been doing that all along, anyway.
Not all iPhone alternatives are 'trash' that costs less to make. It is Apples fault they demand a higher margin than anyone else.
I wouldn't call this Apple's fault. Starving carriers or an eventual backlash may bite them, but AT&T screwed it for the rest of them by agreeing to Apple's terms. Verizon turned them away initially. Had every other carrier done the same, they would have needed to rethink what their demands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Actually, they do.
I don't know about the subsidies (and neither does anyone else here, probably), but in terms of margin, Apple clearly does get a larger margin than the competition. That's why Apple is profitable while few others are - even after letting Apple pay their R&D costs.
In the end, I suspect that the 'problem' of subsidies will go away for the carriers over the next decade. I'm already seeing a major shift to prepaid, unsubsidized plans in the US and, of course, they are already common in many other countries. Consumers are starting to realize how much the carriers rip them off with subsidies that continue after the contract period, recovery of 2-3 times the subsidy cost, and so on.
You have a lot of passive aggressive commentary, but I've wanted to see the end of subsidized phones for a while. I'd rather upgrade when I choose and pay an unpadded rate.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
The story linked that supposedly proves carrier "unhappiness" contains a fact-free assertion by an analyst. Here's the quote:
Walter Piecyk's opinion isn't the basis for proof of anything.
I look forward to the day Apple decides to buy up the available white space from the FCC at auction for use in future iPhones and iPads. I'd rather pay Apple for wireless service than the scum they currently deal with.
multiple companies have said the same thing over and over.....
The problem with it is it encourages they sales-men/women to try to sell more androind smartphone..... which isn't truly a problem per sya, but probably does affect i{Phone profit in a very small way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
How, particularly since they don't.
According to numerous AI articles, they do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayz
Mmm. I hadn't thought of that.
But I can't see how they can go much further with this cloud stuff without having control of the pipe. No one is going to download huge all their movies if the ISPs throttle your connection after your tenth movie, or the mobile broadband is too expensive to use.
I was thinking that Apple needs to offer high-speed, fixed-cost mobile connections if they want to avoid hitting the wall caused by stubborn pipe suppliers.
except for a few services like photo stream the cloud is a scam to get you into a low monthly payment forever. i work for a cloud company and sit next to some of our sales people
i'll take local storage and blu ray over streaming any day
Ah, the infamous 'Apple Tax'
You base that on some iFixIt type guess that the parts cost $75 per phone but that doesn't include the labor to assemble them, the licensing for various bits etc
As for what money is added on top of te actual costs to build, some of that money pays for the stores, the tech support, the free workshops etc. so they aren't actually making scads more profit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy
except for a few services like photo stream the cloud is a scam to get you into a low monthly payment forever.
Yep, that free iCloud sure screams 'monthly payment'.
It just is.
What's interesting is the swing in the game. For the first 3 years Apple had to basically bend over on whatever AT&T wanted cause they needed the carrier. Not now. So if a carrier is really that upset they can kick rocks.
Actually, they do.
I don't know about the subsidies (and neither does anyone else here, probably), but in terms of margin, Apple clearly does get a larger margin than the competition. That's why Apple is profitable while few others are - even after letting Apple pay their R&D costs.
In the end, I suspect that the 'problem' of subsidies will go away for the carriers over the next decade. I'm already seeing a major shift to prepaid, unsubsidized plans in the US and, of course, they are already common in many other countries. Consumers are starting to realize how much the carriers rip them off with subsidies that continue after the contract period, recovery of 2-3 times the subsidy cost, and so on.
After all, you don't get your TV from Cox or Comcast with the cable company subsidizing some of the cost. You don't buy a car with the radio subsidized by Sirius. You don't buy a subsidized refrigerator with your local grocery store picking up some of the initial cost in exchange for a contract for groceries. The fact that cell phones operate with contracts and subsidies is an artifact that could well fade.
Of course, the same thing applies to cable companies in a different regard. I'm getting really sick of having my cable bill increase by 20% per year even without adding new services. Then, they advertise their $99 bundles on TV, but they only apply to new users. I've started playing their game - my internet/cable bill for $141 just dropped to $99 when I added phone service and left everything else unchanged. Even after the 6 month promotional period, it only goes up to $121 ($20 less than I was paying without phone service). When my one year commitment expires, I'll readjust the plan and find some other deal I'm qualified for. If I can't, it may be time to switch to dish.
When the subsidies go away and the carriers have to compete on service and price, I'm sure they'll be much happier. /s
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations
What Tim Cook doesn't say is that Apple's high subsidy demands are eventually paid for by us customers (via higher monthly wireless fees).
True, but it is not just iPhone customers that end up paying in the long term, all customers pay as carriers resort to cross subsidising.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Actually, they do.
I don't know about the subsidies (and neither does anyone else here, probably), but in terms of margin, Apple clearly does get a larger margin than the competition. That's why Apple is profitable while few others are - even after letting Apple pay their R&D costs.
In the end, I suspect that the 'problem' of subsidies will go away for the carriers over the next decade. I'm already seeing a major shift to prepaid, unsubsidized plans in the US and, of course, they are already common in many other countries. Consumers are starting to realize how much the carriers rip them off with subsidies that continue after the contract period, recovery of 2-3 times the subsidy cost, and so on.
After all, you don't get your TV from Cox or Comcast with the cable company subsidizing some of the cost. You don't buy a car with the radio subsidized by Sirius. You don't buy a subsidized refrigerator with your local grocery store picking up some of the initial cost in exchange for a contract for groceries. The fact that cell phones operate with contracts and subsidies is an artifact that could well fade.
Of course, the same thing applies to cable companies in a different regard. I'm getting really sick of having my cable bill increase by 20% per year even without adding new services. Then, they advertise their $99 bundles on TV, but they only apply to new users. I've started playing their game - my internet/cable bill for $141 just dropped to $99 when I added phone service and left everything else unchanged. Even after the 6 month promotional period, it only goes up to $121 ($20 less than I was paying without phone service). When my one year commitment expires, I'll readjust the plan and find some other deal I'm qualified for. If I can't, it may be time to switch to dish.
When the subsidies go away and the carriers have to compete on service and price, I'm sure they'll be much happier. /s
You may well be correct about carriers ditching subsidised handsets. Such a move would have a serious impact on the sales of higher end handsets with people no longer ditching their phones every 2 years. It would also lead to carriers having to find new ways of trying to keep customers locked into contracts.
Mind you it would be nice to see a shift away from the recent trend of 24 month contracts back to the 12 month ones.
i'm looking to do that. wife has a 4 and i have a 4S. Straight Talk is $40 - $45 a month per line unlimited everything. Virgin is the cheapest at $30 for 300 minutes and unlimited sms/data. i'm on wifi 90% of the time anyway.
I hate Siri and don't play too many games. there is very little difference for normal use in yearly iphone releases now. iOS will work 3 generations back. only reason to get a new phone now is if the old one breaks
Quote:
Originally Posted by hngfr
that's a very arrogant statement form the ceo,
they should be wary, ms/nokia are about to launch their models,
and i'm sure everyone knows how ms plays dirty behind the scenes,
back room deals by ms to launch its partners products could see carries give iphone subsidies the boot,
ONLY because they are concerned with apples dominance.
Which one will be first to watch the queues form at their competitor's stores as people leave them, come launch day?
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy
i'm looking to do that. wife has a 4 and i have a 4S. Straight Talk is $40 - $45 a month per line unlimited everything.
Have you tried it already, or are you just looking into it? I just want to confirm this'll actually work before I drop coin on three unlocked iPhones for this purpose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Have you tried it already, or are you just looking into it? I just want to confirm this'll actually work before I drop coin on three unlocked iPhones for this purpose.
my wife's 4 goes off contract next month and i'll try on her. even then ST is an AT&T MVNO and it's the same AT&T network. from what i've read you just need a slightly modified apn file which you can make yourself or get from a new zealand server. just google iphone apn file or something close to it
CDMA locks your phones to a carrier but not GSM/UMTS
prepaid cell and cancelling cable will free up close to $200 a month of after-tax money
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy
my wife's 4 goes off contract next month and i'll try on her. even then ST is an AT&T MVNO and it's the same AT&T network. from what i've read you just need a slightly modified apn file which you can make yourself or get from a new zealand server. just google iphone apn file or something close to it
CDMA locks your phones to a carrier but not GSM/UMTS
But Straight Talk can also use CDMA, right? I think we need a thread dedicated to Straight Talk iPhones and getting them to work…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
But Straight Talk can also use CDMA, right? I think we need a thread dedicated to Straight Talk iPhones and getting them to work…
i think so, but with CDMA its different. the carrier has to allow the phone ESN on the network or something like that. Cricket is a verizon MVNO and i've read rumors that unofficially they will allow verizon iphone ESN's on their network. not sure how straight talk will handle iphone ESN's.
my iphones have been on AT&T since 2009 and i plan to take them to straight talk soon.
i was waiting for the family shared data since last year because i wanted to get my inlaws to get iphones or galaxy phones. but the terms are beyond ridiculous and they don't want to pay anything extra. as it is now i pay for 4GB data and use around 1.5 or 2. no reason why i should pay more money to use that data just to "activate" a device on a network
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Actually, they do.
I don't know about the subsidies (and neither does anyone else here, probably), but in terms of margin, Apple clearly does get a larger margin than the competition. That's why Apple is profitable while few others are - even after letting Apple pay their R&D costs.
In the end, I suspect that the 'problem' of subsidies will go away for the carriers over the next decade. I'm already seeing a major shift to prepaid, unsubsidized plans in the US and, of course, they are already common in many other countries. Consumers are starting to realize how much the carriers rip them off with subsidies that continue after the contract period, recovery of 2-3 times the subsidy cost, and so on.
After all, you don't get your TV from Cox or Comcast with the cable company subsidizing some of the cost. You don't buy a car with the radio subsidized by Sirius. You don't buy a subsidized refrigerator with your local grocery store picking up some of the initial cost in exchange for a contract for groceries. The fact that cell phones operate with contracts and subsidies is an artifact that could well fade.
Of course, the same thing applies to cable companies in a different regard. I'm getting really sick of having my cable bill increase by 20% per year even without adding new services. Then, they advertise their $99 bundles on TV, but they only apply to new users. I've started playing their game - my internet/cable bill for $141 just dropped to $99 when I added phone service and left everything else unchanged. Even after the 6 month promotional period, it only goes up to $121 ($20 less than I was paying without phone service). When my one year commitment expires, I'll readjust the plan and find some other deal I'm qualified for. If I can't, it may be time to switch to dish.
When the subsidies go away and the carriers have to compete on service and price, I'm sure they'll be much happier. /s
When my $59 contract ends on the 12th of August I am switching to the same plan, month to month for $45, until I upgrade to a contract again when a new iPhone launches.
I pay nothing for TV, don't use it enough and can always find something on free to air.
Unlimited ADSL 2+ is $60 pm with a phone line that I couldn't be bothered plugging a phone into.
Australia seems to have caught up in some ways.
I did it - one iPhone and one Android phone. Both worked pretty well.
There are a few glitches. The New Zealand modification method didn't work for me. I was unable to receive data. I tried the Apple iPhone Configuration tool and that didn't work, either. Eventually, I had to jailbreak my phone and install the settings manually. That wasn't painless either - hours on the phone with Straight Talk trying different settings (it's as if they have no idea what settings to use so they keep trying options until they find one that works).
In the end, I got it working except that you had to turn WiFi off in order to send or receive an MMS message (but not a text message). Fortunately, Trumptman here recommended a fix for that problem so it's all working properly (although, oddly, my daughter's Android phone still requires that WiFi be turned off to send or receive MMS).
So, in the end, you'll probably have to play around with a variety of settings and the changeover isn't as easy as it should be, but it's possible to get it working. I've completed the first month and first refill and am quite happy - better plan (unlimited data) at just over half the price of AT&T. I will have to buy a different SIM to use the phone Internationally, but I should have been doing that all along, anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui
Not all iPhone alternatives are 'trash' that costs less to make. It is Apples fault they demand a higher margin than anyone else.
I wouldn't call this Apple's fault. Starving carriers or an eventual backlash may bite them, but AT&T screwed it for the rest of them by agreeing to Apple's terms. Verizon turned them away initially. Had every other carrier done the same, they would have needed to rethink what their demands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Actually, they do.
I don't know about the subsidies (and neither does anyone else here, probably), but in terms of margin, Apple clearly does get a larger margin than the competition. That's why Apple is profitable while few others are - even after letting Apple pay their R&D costs.
In the end, I suspect that the 'problem' of subsidies will go away for the carriers over the next decade. I'm already seeing a major shift to prepaid, unsubsidized plans in the US and, of course, they are already common in many other countries. Consumers are starting to realize how much the carriers rip them off with subsidies that continue after the contract period, recovery of 2-3 times the subsidy cost, and so on.
You have a lot of passive aggressive commentary, but I've wanted to see the end of subsidized phones for a while. I'd rather upgrade when I choose and pay an unpadded rate.