Not offended at all, you misread my tone. I didn't mention Samsung at all, or infer that they were not innovating. I was responding to your comment that could be paraphrased as stating that Apple should forget about protecting their intellectual property and go back to innovating. To me it seems that innovation is stifled without protection, I can't see any other way around it. It doesn't matter to me which side Apple or Samsung is on, copying is just not conducive to innovation.
In this post you seem to suggest a somewhat socialist idea that innovation should be rewarded, but only up to a determined level of profit. I'm not making a judgement on this, just trying to understand.
No I did not mean that Apple should forget about protecting IP. If you see the Apple some of those patents seen in the media, however, do seem to be too obvious to be patented. I agree with you that copying prevents innovation (no one has been against that here in fact)
This guy is unbelievable. Some of Samsung's product look almost like Apple's products, and we now learn that people have been returning their Samsung products simply because they are not iDevices like they thought.
And what about Samsung wanting more from Apple than other device manufacturers, in licensing fees for FRAND patents?
This whole lawsuit goes well beyond rectangles and Samsung knows it -- I think the set backs they've suffered so far has led to a PR-assault on Apple, trying to make ? look bad.
SOME look ALMOST like? Really? And you expect people to believe the claim that people bought a device thinking it was an Apple device even though BOX and the DEVICE both have the words SAMSUNG on them? The statement about Samsung wanting more for the FRAND patents than other manufacturers is hearsay. Do you have any actual proof than what Apple states? Oh, wait...Apple isn't about the money. Right, and I have a bridge to sell you. If it wasn't about the money (simple example) WHY did Apple remove the student discount on the iPods and significantly reduce the student discount on computers? Why did Apple stop giving a free iPod to students who buy laptops every summer and instead just give credit to the App Store?
Guys, if you believe anything EITHER of these monolithic corporations are stating you need to have your head examined.
I am so tired of all this litigation crap. I have to deal with this enough as my brother-in-law is a slimeball attorney. I really am to the point where I will be selling my iPhone 4 and my Galaxy Nexus for a Windows Phone. Or...just sell both smartphones, get a basic dumbphone, and then go back to using my laptop. I don't see TV manufacturers fighting over the appearance of the gazillion HD TVs being sold today. I know I couldn't tell the brand of a TV if it didn't have a logo on it.
Does Apple REALLY BELIEVE that if they shut down Samsung from ever making another smartphone or tablet in the future that everyone will just flock to the local Apple Store to buy an iPhone or iPad?
People can rationalize all they want...Apple has turned into the Microsoft of old. I don't deny that Apple makes good products, but I am just tired of the company and its antics.
SOME look ALMOST like? Really? And you expect people to believe the claim that people bought a device thinking it was an Apple device even though BOX and the DEVICE both have the words SAMSUNG on them? The statement about Samsung wanting more for the FRAND patents than other manufacturers is hearsay. Do you have any actual proof than what Apple states? Oh, wait...Apple isn't about the money. Right, and I have a bridge to sell you. If it wasn't about the money (simple example) WHY did Apple remove the student discount on the iPods and significantly reduce the student discount on computers? Why did Apple stop giving a free iPod to students who buy laptops every summer and instead just give credit to the App Store?
Guys, if you believe anything EITHER of these monolithic corporations are stating you need to have your head examined.
I don't have to believe anything either corporation is saying. I can use my own eyes and judgements and see that Samsung is copying Apple. It's the first thing I said when they released their Galaxy line of phones before Apple actually filed a law suit. It was what everyone was saying when Samsung released their phones and tablets. At the very least Apple should've been afforded some amount of time to benefit from their R&D from the iPhone and iPads before Samsung started copying Apple's work. So many before them failed at tablet design and smart phone design.
I am so tired of all this litigation crap. I have to deal with this enough as my brother-in-law is a slimeball attorney. I really am to the point where I will be selling my iPhone 4 and my Galaxy Nexus for a Windows Phone. Or...just sell both smartphones, get a basic dumbphone, and then go back to using my laptop. I don't see TV manufacturers fighting over the appearance of the gazillion HD TVs being sold today. I know I couldn't tell the brand of a TV if it didn't have a logo on it.
Does Apple REALLY BELIEVE that if they shut down Samsung from ever making another smartphone or tablet in the future that everyone will just flock to the local Apple Store to buy an iPhone or iPad?
People can rationalize all they want...Apple has turned into the Microsoft of old. I don't deny that Apple makes good products, but I am just tired of the company and its antics.
So Apple shouldn't be allowed to profit from it's own innovations or inventions. Why use a phone at all? Any other company would be doing the same thing if they could. Google sued MSFT over MSFT using Google's search results with BING. All of these guys laptop makers, dumb phone makers and pretty much all science & technology companies do the same thing when it comes to their intellectual property. They should be allowed to profit from their inventions and innovations. Even the dumb phones are subject to patents and things hidden below the surface. You might as well just not use a phone or laptop at all if someone fighting for their IP bothers you. I guarantee any company you buy from can and will do the same thing if someone infringes on their IP.
So Apple shouldn't be allowed to profit from it's own innovations or inventions. Why use a phone at all? Any other company would be doing the same thing if they could. Google sued MSFT over MSFT using Google's search results with BING. All of these guys laptop makers, dumb phone makers and pretty much all science & technology companies do the same thing when it comes to their intellectual property. They should be allowed to profit from their inventions and innovations. Even the dumb phones are subject to patents and things hidden below the surface. You might as well just not use a phone or laptop at all if someone fighting for their IP bothers you. I guarantee any company you buy from can and will do the same thing if someone infringes on their IP.
Ummm are you really stating that Apple isn't making a profit? Heck, they have billions of dollars offshore being hidden from U.S. taxes.Apple IS PROFITING from their own innovations and inventions. The problem is that many of those patents shouldn't have been awarded, or at best, should be FRAND patents. Swipe to unlock, really? A flat screen with a bezel? Really? I agree there are some patents that Apple has the right to ask for compensation, such as the double-tap to zoom idea.
Swipe to unlock didn't exist on a smart phone before Apple. Why shouldn't Apple be allowed to patent it? It's not needed to make a smart phone. Flat Screen with bezel... is kind of a strange patent to ask for and I'm not sure how you even argue this one in court. Just because you don't agree with the patent doesn't mean that the patent holder shouldn't have been awarded. Flat Screen with bezel isn't needed to make a smart phone. FRAND is for standards and essential patents and it's the price companies pay for getting others to unify around a single specific technology. It's better for the end consumer and it's better for competing businesses overall and better for the innovator ensuring people will license their technology.
The I should be allowed to copy because it sells well isn't a good argument. That argument stifles innovation.... it takes the incentive away for companies and people to innovate.
It is obvious that Samsung had their own designs for Galaxy Tab and Galaxy phones before Apple designs were released. Their OS is not iOS. They have very different dimentions in every products than Apple's. Theirs are made of mainly plastic whereas Apple's glass and aluminum. So what makes you think that Samsung copied Apple?
I think you have a point in similarities about the accessories and packaging in Samsung products, but are they really serious infringements of something that Apple has to ban entire products? There is no confusion from the consumers, but if Apple really care about this, why not ask Samsung to change the accessory and packaging designs?
One other question that I have wanted to ask you since the beginning. Is this a discussion site for Apple shareholders? (Appleinisder = Appleshareholder?) Why this arrogant Apple practice (copycat calling&suing copycat) is good thing to consumers, if you are not shareholders? If you really care about Apple as a consumer, you should be asking Apple to innovate as they did in 2007 rather than cheering up this nonsense. Just me thought.
What makes you think Apple hasnt asked Samsung to do those very things and Samsung said no. As for this discussion site, its not called Samsunginsider for a reason.
But then how much Apple wants? $110 billion is not enough? How much Apple is investing R&D on their income? I read somewhere that Samsung is investing tens of billiions every year, but how much by Apple?
Again what exactly Samsung copied Apple? If Samsung copied (I dont know yet), what Apple has been doing? Are you sure Apple is not copying. If yes, how do you know?
Are you saying Samsung is not innovating?
If Samsung were innovating they would have built the whole widget rather than slap on Android into a blatant KIRF of Apples products, shine it up a bit and act surprised when they get called out on it.
Does Apple REALLY BELIEVE that if they shut down Samsung from ever making another smartphone or tablet in the future that everyone will just flock to the local Apple Store to buy an iPhone or iPad?
It's only Apple that is unreasonable. Yet every other company out there who can't make there own products themselves and just steals Apple's R&D are little angels.
What a bunch of B.S.!!!
Every patent whore out there with no products seems to think they should have a piece of Apple's profit without spending a dime to create anything and they call Apple unreasonable?
I'm sorry but that is unreasonable in so many different ways. Apple didn't start this patent war, they did. Apple has the right to defend itself and its intellectual property for which they actually spent a lot of time, money, and effort into creating unlike the patent whores who do nothing but go to court with nothing and say Apple owes them?
If Samsung were innovating they would have built the whole widget rather than slap on Android into a blatant KIRF of Apples products, shine it up a bit and act surprised when they get called out on it.
Actually TouchWiz was the blatant copy of iOS. Though I suppose they would argue its not because their app icons don't have rounded corners. -;)
Mind you, before the iPhone all of Samsung's phones were copies of Nokia, Blackberry and SonyEricsson phones. Same-sung has always been nothing but a cheap me-too.
Here's the Samsung F700, the way the fandroids don't want you to see it i.e. apart from being rectangular why it is nothing like the iPhone design patents:-
Why the rubbish about "rectangles" is precisely that, rubbish for trolling Internet sites, you'd expect better from an executive representing a company.
It's only Apple that is unreasonable. Yet every other company out there who can't make there own products themselves and just steals Apple's R&D are little angels.
What a bunch of B.S.!!!
Every patent whore out there with no products seems to think they should have a piece of Apple's profit without spending a dime to create anything and they call Apple unreasonable?
I'm sorry but that is unreasonable in so many different ways. Apple didn't start this patent war, they did. Apple has the right to defend itself and its intellectual property for which they actually spent a lot of time, money, and effort into creating unlike the patent whores who do nothing but go to court with nothing and say Apple owes them?
Are you saying that Apple spent most R&D in smartphone? Really? Samsung said in their trial brief that they spent 35 billion over 3 years (2005 to 2008, I think) in real technology not like Apple registering multiple design patents for the same products. You know that there has not been many products by Apple, so many many patents were just design patents that never eventuated, (extremly vague drawing patents just like so called Ipad design patents.) This Apple practice has been covered in OS News before.
Here's the Samsung F700, the way the fandroids don't want you to see it i.e. apart from being rectangular why it is nothing like the iPhone design patents:-
Why the rubbish about "rectangles" is precisely that, rubbish for trolling Internet sites, you'd expect better from an executive representing a company.
So, you are saying that Apple does not own rectangular shape with rounded coners, shiny metal look rim and home button. Good.
So, you are saying that Apple does not own rectangular shape with rounded coners, shiny metal look rim and home button. Good.
Of course not, however Apple do own some remarkably detailed design patents, going well beyond a two dimensional front view, which Samsung are likely to have infringed, enough to have several injunctions placed against their products in other jurisdictions.
The "OMG, Apple has patented the rectangle!!!" is a diversionary battle cry of the lowest of the low Internet trolls.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by diplication
Not offended at all, you misread my tone. I didn't mention Samsung at all, or infer that they were not innovating. I was responding to your comment that could be paraphrased as stating that Apple should forget about protecting their intellectual property and go back to innovating. To me it seems that innovation is stifled without protection, I can't see any other way around it. It doesn't matter to me which side Apple or Samsung is on, copying is just not conducive to innovation.
In this post you seem to suggest a somewhat socialist idea that innovation should be rewarded, but only up to a determined level of profit. I'm not making a judgement on this, just trying to understand.
No I did not mean that Apple should forget about protecting IP. If you see the Apple some of those patents seen in the media, however, do seem to be too obvious to be patented. I agree with you that copying prevents innovation (no one has been against that here in fact)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip
This guy is unbelievable. Some of Samsung's product look almost like Apple's products, and we now learn that people have been returning their Samsung products simply because they are not iDevices like they thought.
And what about Samsung wanting more from Apple than other device manufacturers, in licensing fees for FRAND patents?
This whole lawsuit goes well beyond rectangles and Samsung knows it -- I think the set backs they've suffered so far has led to a PR-assault on Apple, trying to make ? look bad.
SOME look ALMOST like? Really? And you expect people to believe the claim that people bought a device thinking it was an Apple device even though BOX and the DEVICE both have the words SAMSUNG on them? The statement about Samsung wanting more for the FRAND patents than other manufacturers is hearsay. Do you have any actual proof than what Apple states? Oh, wait...Apple isn't about the money. Right, and I have a bridge to sell you. If it wasn't about the money (simple example) WHY did Apple remove the student discount on the iPods and significantly reduce the student discount on computers? Why did Apple stop giving a free iPod to students who buy laptops every summer and instead just give credit to the App Store?
Guys, if you believe anything EITHER of these monolithic corporations are stating you need to have your head examined.
I am so tired of all this litigation crap. I have to deal with this enough as my brother-in-law is a slimeball attorney. I really am to the point where I will be selling my iPhone 4 and my Galaxy Nexus for a Windows Phone. Or...just sell both smartphones, get a basic dumbphone, and then go back to using my laptop. I don't see TV manufacturers fighting over the appearance of the gazillion HD TVs being sold today. I know I couldn't tell the brand of a TV if it didn't have a logo on it.
Does Apple REALLY BELIEVE that if they shut down Samsung from ever making another smartphone or tablet in the future that everyone will just flock to the local Apple Store to buy an iPhone or iPad?
People can rationalize all they want...Apple has turned into the Microsoft of old. I don't deny that Apple makes good products, but I am just tired of the company and its antics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
SOME look ALMOST like? Really? And you expect people to believe the claim that people bought a device thinking it was an Apple device even though BOX and the DEVICE both have the words SAMSUNG on them? The statement about Samsung wanting more for the FRAND patents than other manufacturers is hearsay. Do you have any actual proof than what Apple states? Oh, wait...Apple isn't about the money. Right, and I have a bridge to sell you. If it wasn't about the money (simple example) WHY did Apple remove the student discount on the iPods and significantly reduce the student discount on computers? Why did Apple stop giving a free iPod to students who buy laptops every summer and instead just give credit to the App Store?
Guys, if you believe anything EITHER of these monolithic corporations are stating you need to have your head examined.
I don't have to believe anything either corporation is saying. I can use my own eyes and judgements and see that Samsung is copying Apple. It's the first thing I said when they released their Galaxy line of phones before Apple actually filed a law suit. It was what everyone was saying when Samsung released their phones and tablets. At the very least Apple should've been afforded some amount of time to benefit from their R&D from the iPhone and iPads before Samsung started copying Apple's work. So many before them failed at tablet design and smart phone design.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
I am so tired of all this litigation crap. I have to deal with this enough as my brother-in-law is a slimeball attorney. I really am to the point where I will be selling my iPhone 4 and my Galaxy Nexus for a Windows Phone. Or...just sell both smartphones, get a basic dumbphone, and then go back to using my laptop. I don't see TV manufacturers fighting over the appearance of the gazillion HD TVs being sold today. I know I couldn't tell the brand of a TV if it didn't have a logo on it.
Does Apple REALLY BELIEVE that if they shut down Samsung from ever making another smartphone or tablet in the future that everyone will just flock to the local Apple Store to buy an iPhone or iPad?
People can rationalize all they want...Apple has turned into the Microsoft of old. I don't deny that Apple makes good products, but I am just tired of the company and its antics.
So Apple shouldn't be allowed to profit from it's own innovations or inventions. Why use a phone at all? Any other company would be doing the same thing if they could. Google sued MSFT over MSFT using Google's search results with BING. All of these guys laptop makers, dumb phone makers and pretty much all science & technology companies do the same thing when it comes to their intellectual property. They should be allowed to profit from their inventions and innovations. Even the dumb phones are subject to patents and things hidden below the surface. You might as well just not use a phone or laptop at all if someone fighting for their IP bothers you. I guarantee any company you buy from can and will do the same thing if someone infringes on their IP.
You wish is my command: http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lk5wjcUfuj1qij8bto1_1280.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU
So Apple shouldn't be allowed to profit from it's own innovations or inventions. Why use a phone at all? Any other company would be doing the same thing if they could. Google sued MSFT over MSFT using Google's search results with BING. All of these guys laptop makers, dumb phone makers and pretty much all science & technology companies do the same thing when it comes to their intellectual property. They should be allowed to profit from their inventions and innovations. Even the dumb phones are subject to patents and things hidden below the surface. You might as well just not use a phone or laptop at all if someone fighting for their IP bothers you. I guarantee any company you buy from can and will do the same thing if someone infringes on their IP.
Ummm are you really stating that Apple isn't making a profit? Heck, they have billions of dollars offshore being hidden from U.S. taxes.Apple IS PROFITING from their own innovations and inventions. The problem is that many of those patents shouldn't have been awarded, or at best, should be FRAND patents. Swipe to unlock, really? A flat screen with a bezel? Really? I agree there are some patents that Apple has the right to ask for compensation, such as the double-tap to zoom idea.
Swipe to unlock didn't exist on a smart phone before Apple. Why shouldn't Apple be allowed to patent it? It's not needed to make a smart phone. Flat Screen with bezel... is kind of a strange patent to ask for and I'm not sure how you even argue this one in court. Just because you don't agree with the patent doesn't mean that the patent holder shouldn't have been awarded. Flat Screen with bezel isn't needed to make a smart phone. FRAND is for standards and essential patents and it's the price companies pay for getting others to unify around a single specific technology. It's better for the end consumer and it's better for competing businesses overall and better for the innovator ensuring people will license their technology.
The I should be allowed to copy because it sells well isn't a good argument. That argument stifles innovation.... it takes the incentive away for companies and people to innovate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Wrong post!. one up mate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjb
It is obvious that Samsung had their own designs for Galaxy Tab and Galaxy phones before Apple designs were released. Their OS is not iOS. They have very different dimentions in every products than Apple's. Theirs are made of mainly plastic whereas Apple's glass and aluminum. So what makes you think that Samsung copied Apple?
I think you have a point in similarities about the accessories and packaging in Samsung products, but are they really serious infringements of something that Apple has to ban entire products? There is no confusion from the consumers, but if Apple really care about this, why not ask Samsung to change the accessory and packaging designs?
One other question that I have wanted to ask you since the beginning. Is this a discussion site for Apple shareholders? (Appleinisder = Appleshareholder?) Why this arrogant Apple practice (copycat calling&suing copycat) is good thing to consumers, if you are not shareholders? If you really care about Apple as a consumer, you should be asking Apple to innovate as they did in 2007 rather than cheering up this nonsense. Just me thought.
What makes you think Apple hasnt asked Samsung to do those very things and Samsung said no. As for this discussion site, its not called Samsunginsider for a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjb
Sorry if I offended you.
But then how much Apple wants? $110 billion is not enough? How much Apple is investing R&D on their income? I read somewhere that Samsung is investing tens of billiions every year, but how much by Apple?
Again what exactly Samsung copied Apple? If Samsung copied (I dont know yet), what Apple has been doing? Are you sure Apple is not copying. If yes, how do you know?
Are you saying Samsung is not innovating?
If Samsung were innovating they would have built the whole widget rather than slap on Android into a blatant KIRF of Apples products, shine it up a bit and act surprised when they get called out on it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
Does Apple REALLY BELIEVE that if they shut down Samsung from ever making another smartphone or tablet in the future that everyone will just flock to the local Apple Store to buy an iPhone or iPad?
Do you REALLY BELIEVE that this is Apple's aim?
It's only Apple that is unreasonable. Yet every other company out there who can't make there own products themselves and just steals Apple's R&D are little angels.
What a bunch of B.S.!!!
Every patent whore out there with no products seems to think they should have a piece of Apple's profit without spending a dime to create anything and they call Apple unreasonable?
I'm sorry but that is unreasonable in so many different ways. Apple didn't start this patent war, they did. Apple has the right to defend itself and its intellectual property for which they actually spent a lot of time, money, and effort into creating unlike the patent whores who do nothing but go to court with nothing and say Apple owes them?
Compare that to HTC Sense:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode
BWAHAHAHAHAAAA. Samsung is such a sorry xerox.
Mind you, before the iPhone all of Samsung's phones were copies of Nokia, Blackberry and SonyEricsson phones. Same-sung has always been nothing but a cheap me-too.
Competition?? Come on!! Samsung just represents mediocrity!! You don't compete by copying products.
If you want to compete go to the design board and start thinking different!
but nobody in the industry apparently have the brains or the balls to do it right. The same goes to Google for stealing iOS.
If this is REAL competition then why there isn't something cooler than the iPhone in the market yet?
It looks like Microsoft is the only company that has a clue of where to go next. (after the iOS era)
So.. who hasn't dreamed of a 15" iPad with i7 processor and 16gb of RAM running full OSX with full size apps?
If apple builds it I'll go stand in line to get one right away! because that's the kind of product that could change the game again.
But nope... we just got a Retina display MacBook Pro. (we just got... hehehe poor us)
The only problem here is that it is Microsoft doing it and to be honest... Windows just SUX!
It looks like apples strategy has some flaws nobody wants to exploit. (Nobody but Microsoft)
Hope apple doesn't get lost without Steve.
It is time to get out of the courtroom and back to the design board.
Here's the Samsung F700, the way the fandroids don't want you to see it i.e. apart from being rectangular why it is nothing like the iPhone design patents:-
Why the rubbish about "rectangles" is precisely that, rubbish for trolling Internet sites, you'd expect better from an executive representing a company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by b9bot
It's only Apple that is unreasonable. Yet every other company out there who can't make there own products themselves and just steals Apple's R&D are little angels.
What a bunch of B.S.!!!
Every patent whore out there with no products seems to think they should have a piece of Apple's profit without spending a dime to create anything and they call Apple unreasonable?
I'm sorry but that is unreasonable in so many different ways. Apple didn't start this patent war, they did. Apple has the right to defend itself and its intellectual property for which they actually spent a lot of time, money, and effort into creating unlike the patent whores who do nothing but go to court with nothing and say Apple owes them?
Are you saying that Apple spent most R&D in smartphone? Really? Samsung said in their trial brief that they spent 35 billion over 3 years (2005 to 2008, I think) in real technology not like Apple registering multiple design patents for the same products. You know that there has not been many products by Apple, so many many patents were just design patents that never eventuated, (extremly vague drawing patents just like so called Ipad design patents.) This Apple practice has been covered in OS News before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Here's the Samsung F700, the way the fandroids don't want you to see it i.e. apart from being rectangular why it is nothing like the iPhone design patents:-
Why the rubbish about "rectangles" is precisely that, rubbish for trolling Internet sites, you'd expect better from an executive representing a company.
So, you are saying that Apple does not own rectangular shape with rounded coners, shiny metal look rim and home button. Good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hjb
So, you are saying that Apple does not own rectangular shape with rounded coners, shiny metal look rim and home button. Good.
Of course not, however Apple do own some remarkably detailed design patents, going well beyond a two dimensional front view, which Samsung are likely to have infringed, enough to have several injunctions placed against their products in other jurisdictions.
The "OMG, Apple has patented the rectangle!!!" is a diversionary battle cry of the lowest of the low Internet trolls.