If there were a rule against apps doing the same thing 1st party apps do, Apple would have kicked out every stock market app, every texting app, and most important, every mapping app among others.
But then again, they don't allow alternative launchers, or anything remotely like that.
Their policy seems to have softened over time. When they were less experienced at the app approval process, they used to do things that caused questions to be asked and bad publicity to be printed.
GIven the huge marketshare of the iPhone, iPad and iPod touch, Google will definitely take a hit from this move by Apple. It will shut down one of their big sources of traffic/revenue, and one that is constantly expanding as people use more and more smartphones and tablets.
Assuming they remove and get a replacement for Google in Siri searches.
Yeah, maps are one piece, getting people to think of hitting Siri rather than Google is another, and while Siri already uses other sources as well it would certainly have to stop defaulting to 'Do you want to search Google?' as the 'I have no idea what you just asked' query.
But it certainly seems like there's a fair chance things will move that way in the next couple of years. Google really stuck a knife in Apple's back, and I'd be shocked if Apple isn't looking for just about any path to remove Google from its devices as a preset - whether out of sense of betrayal (as it seemed Jobs had) and/or just in order not to have dependencies on what is now their major mobile OS competitor! Even for people who fall into the 'Google didn't do anything wrong or copy anything at all!' camp, it should make perfect sense that Apple wouldn't want to depend on the kindness of the company that makes Android to keep supplying viable mapping / search / etc. options. Google is in a position to get a competitive advantage for their own platform by withholding or delaying iOS features while simultaneously generating revenue from Apple's own customer base. Apple would be incredibly stupid to leave that as the status quo, and I don't get the sense that the leaders there are that shortsighted.
Google is in a position to get a competitive advantage for their own platform by withholding or delaying iOS features while simultaneously generating revenue from Apple's own customer base. Apple would be incredibly stupid to leave that as the status quo....
Yes, I can definitely see Apple wanting to change this around and shut off Google from generating revenue from iOS users. Google's Android is a direct threat to iOS and Google partners with companies like Samsung among others to manufacture devices that directly compete with the iPhone/iPad and also create a better version of their apps for Android (which is only natural). Apple would be "feeding the monster" as it were by allowing Google to have the default maps app and search engine on iOS as their business model benefits directly and they generate revenue from those things.
So when you try to do a web search on iOS 6, you won't be able to use Google? Is iOS6 automatically going to block AdSense and associated website ads? Google was and still is primarily a search engine and ad-based service; everyone uses Google for searching and if you start auto-blocking AdSense, guess what websites do? They start auto-blocking your device. Yes, Apple is eliminating Google as a mapping solution on iOS, yes it'll hurt Google, but it's not going to wipe them off the map. Find me a better search engine.
Wipe off the map was a punny headline. I think you missed the pun
What's more, their turn-by-turn navigation will really have to be steller as well. Basic directions isn't good enough, it needs to have traffic camera alerts, speed limit notification, etc.
Turn by turn navigation is too hyped and I also wonder how many will actually use it.
The wrong destinations directed by turn by turn navigation are the stuff of legends.
Turn by turn navigation is too hyped and I also wonder how many will actually use it.
The wrong destinations directed by turn by turn navigation are the stuff of legends.
No way! I love my TomTom. It's a tool like anything else. I love Wikipedia but I don't assume the info it proffers is absolutely factual. Tools are suppose to make your life easier but that doesn't mean one should stop critically when using them.
You're singlehandedly undermining their entire business operation. You keep at it, because the day google starts logging "John B"'s location is the day they become a global monopoly super power
+1...oops... that's Google's... whatever.
Funny how science fiction, movies and TV shows at some point in time, become reality rather than a "spacey vision" from an author or script writer.
Every time this location and tracking business by Google comes up, I think of Terminator and John Connor. While the complete story-line is fiction, the underlying premise is not.... and the technology is here right now and being expanded.
At what point in time, does the data fall into the hands of an unsavory government, for example one that is trying to "secure it's borders against terrorism" and creates an agency and laws to help them in that "cause"? Possibly "nationalizing" a major information database to achieve the results faster.
And at that time, what additional and unconstitutional freedoms would "the people" give up, to be tracked, accounted for, searched, and their personal data accumulated to be proven innocent from subversive behavior?
Nah! Never gonna happen... I'm just trippin' on the heat wave here! I'm just happy my real name isn't John Connor (Emoticon: Sunglasses- Smoking-Therapeutic-Substance)
Turn by turn navigation is too hyped and I also wonder how many will actually use it.
The wrong destinations directed by turn by turn navigation are the stuff of legends.
"too hyped"? What does that mean? Would you say sex is "too hyped"? Maybe it's connected with the next:
"how many will actually use it"? Around these parts, practically everybody does (use a navi, I mean ), whether car-installed, a dedicated device, or on a smartphone. Give somebody your address, and as soon as you start to give directions, 9 out of 10 times they'll say "don't bother, I've got a navi." Use of a navi has 2 curious negative side-effects. People are using real maps less and less, relying instead on the turn-by-turn pictures and directions on their devices, which is almost never set to a geographic overview for very long, if at all. People successfully drive from A to B without really knowing how they got there, or what's along the way (or even where they are!). Example: using a navi to get from Vienna to Paris, you could easily miss the fact that you're travelling part of the way along the Danube, or that Salzburg is close to your route, etc. The other problem with using navis is that you actually have difficulty learning the route yourself, as if your brain had taken a break and let the navi take over. It's a little like airline pilots, who use so much automated equipment, forgetting how to really fly by themselves. Distressing.
"The wrong destinations directed by turn by turn navigation are the stuff of legends." The problem may lie more with legends than with navis. I've been using TomToms, both as a dedicated device and on my iPhone for years, all over Europe and North America, and have very rarely been mis-directed. It has happened a few times, though, and is really frustrating, but that problem is due to my own dumbed-downness, due to the problem described above. C'mon, if these things were so notoriously bad, no one would be using them, and they'd go the way of the Edsel. Fact is, navis, any of them, are head and shoulders better than Google Maps for navigation.
My own bottom line: TomToms are very good, useful, and reliable. If they've partnered with Apple, and Apple adds its own modifications, Apple's navigation is likely to be fantastic, and will become a must-have.
Those TeleAtlas cars aren't doing "streetview" work. They're simply to make mapping and routing more accurate by making note of actual intersections and/or roadway details including signs and any other road markings. They have no plans for any publicly available "Streetview" similar to Google.
Yes, TomTom has said they do not have a streetview service today and no public plans to offer such. But they have the raw data required, Apple has deep pockets and a deep penchant for secrecy.
Do you seriously believe that Teleatlas is NOT going to offer streetview when it is ready when NavTeq will?
Yes, TomTom has said they do not have a streetview service today and no public plans to offer such. But they have the raw data required, Apple has deep pockets and a deep penchant for secrecy.
Do you seriously believe that Teleatlas is NOT going to offer streetview when it is ready when NavTeq will?
Yes, I seriously believe TomTom won't offer streetview. And no they do not have the raw data required. They have some particular roadways driven with their mapping vans, but they don't have very many vans in the first place. I believe there's only about 20 covering all of Europe, hardly enough to drive every regional roadway in it's entirety, much less local roads. That handful of TeleAtlas vans are instead dispatched to survey those areas with the most reported changes or errors, The TeleAtlas planned surveys also consider the time of year. You don't want to be checking a new highway in Finland in the middle of a snowstorm in the dead of winter.
Add in the significant staff cutbacks at TeleAtlas North American offices in New Hampshire and Tomtom doesn't have the people nor resources to do a streetview project IMHO. They're a shell of what they were 5 years ago.
Apple on the other hand has an abundance of resources, but why would they be interested in doing a streetview-like project? Their mapping is only going to be used on Apple devices. Unless Apple is planning a major focus on targeted advertising as a significant revenue stream, which means aggressive tracking of their users travels and online searches, I don't see them putting the emphasis on mapping that Google does.
So besides eliminating Google map, are they eliminating the Google search engine which is on iOS 5 Safari now and use the crappy Yahoo which has too many information on their search engine page?
I just tested Yahoo Search Engine page.........one word......CRAP!
What other search engine is better than Google at the moment folks? Please tell me........
So besides eliminating Google map, are they eliminating the Google search engine which is on iOS 5 Safari now and use the crappy Yahoo which has too many information on their search engine page?
I have absolutely no idea how you cam to that conclusion.
Apple on the other hand has an abundance of resources, but why would they be interested in doing a streetview-like project? Their mapping is only going to be used on Apple devices. Unless Apple is planning a major focus on targeted advertising as a significant revenue stream, which means aggressive tracking of their users travels and online searches, I don't see them putting the emphasis on mapping that Google does.
Because it's actually useful in finding your actual destination?
Yeah, they could lose interest in mapping and not bother but it's a significant lack. If they can't license from NavTeq or Google then TomTom has a viable economic reason to collect and sell to Apple. Given that they started using the higher mast 360 camera I believe they have a good amount of usable street view imagery but probably not large enough for Apple to make a launch feature.
It depends on whether or not MS/Nokia is willing to collaborate with Apple on this. Even if they do Apple is dependent on their good will in negotiating how long this collaboration will last. Mapping is important to the platform, enough for the current non-trivial level of investment. Building a second class mapping service is like building Bing.
So either Apple will invest the amount to do so or drop it like Ping. Given it's a core service I think they have no choice and they already made the choice not to partner with Google and choose not to or were unable to partner with MS.
So besides eliminating Google map, are they eliminating the Google search engine which is on iOS 5 Safari now and use the crappy Yahoo which has too many information on their search engine page?
There won't be any more updates to iOS 5. Google Maps will stick around there forever, as it will on all previous versions. Google, Yahoo!, and Bing are all accessible in Safari. Just change your preferences.
What other search engine is better than Google at the moment folks? Please tell me........
I've seen people mention DuckDuckGo, but I know nothing about it.
This might be the stupidest thing I've read on AI, and that's saying a lot. You could apply your same argument to literally every single feature of iOS. We got by fine before smartphones, so who needs them?
Oh come on, it isn't THAT bad… frankly, I got by without 'virtual maps', 'turn by turn navigation' and 'mobile phones' for the first 2/3 of my life… I was making MORE money before all that came along too...
He didn't say "Who needs 'em"… but his main premise (which I think you missed) is sound.
Here's to the EXPLORERS, willing to blaze new trails where there are no maps… to boldly go where no… yeah, them.
If the Sun "burped" tomorrow, and knocked out our internet and phone services, we'd crash and burn… for a week, maybe a month… then we'd pick up, dust off and make do.
You might even find life is pretty good when you remove the "ball and chain" of technology sometimes...
But then again, other than holidays, you couldn't take my car navigation away if you paid me! It WILL take a major solar event before I give that up ))
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by enature
In fact, by pushing its own map service, Apple risks to frustrate its customers who are used to the already excellent and reliable Google Maps.
If they do it even just reasonably OK, things will be fine. They'll add features as they go along, and everybody will coo and swoon over them.
Apple is always pulling stuff that people predict will end in disaster, but they usually come up smelling like roses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup
If there were a rule against apps doing the same thing 1st party apps do, Apple would have kicked out every stock market app, every texting app, and most important, every mapping app among others.
But then again, they don't allow alternative launchers, or anything remotely like that.
Their policy seems to have softened over time. When they were less experienced at the app approval process, they used to do things that caused questions to be asked and bad publicity to be printed.
I just hope they update it soon. It lacks old updates, and keeps getting addresses wrong that Google fixed a while back.
GIven the huge marketshare of the iPhone, iPad and iPod touch, Google will definitely take a hit from this move by Apple. It will shut down one of their big sources of traffic/revenue, and one that is constantly expanding as people use more and more smartphones and tablets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA
Assuming they remove and get a replacement for Google in Siri searches.
Yeah, maps are one piece, getting people to think of hitting Siri rather than Google is another, and while Siri already uses other sources as well it would certainly have to stop defaulting to 'Do you want to search Google?' as the 'I have no idea what you just asked' query.
But it certainly seems like there's a fair chance things will move that way in the next couple of years. Google really stuck a knife in Apple's back, and I'd be shocked if Apple isn't looking for just about any path to remove Google from its devices as a preset - whether out of sense of betrayal (as it seemed Jobs had) and/or just in order not to have dependencies on what is now their major mobile OS competitor! Even for people who fall into the 'Google didn't do anything wrong or copy anything at all!' camp, it should make perfect sense that Apple wouldn't want to depend on the kindness of the company that makes Android to keep supplying viable mapping / search / etc. options. Google is in a position to get a competitive advantage for their own platform by withholding or delaying iOS features while simultaneously generating revenue from Apple's own customer base. Apple would be incredibly stupid to leave that as the status quo, and I don't get the sense that the leaders there are that shortsighted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep
Google is in a position to get a competitive advantage for their own platform by withholding or delaying iOS features while simultaneously generating revenue from Apple's own customer base. Apple would be incredibly stupid to leave that as the status quo....
Yes, I can definitely see Apple wanting to change this around and shut off Google from generating revenue from iOS users. Google's Android is a direct threat to iOS and Google partners with companies like Samsung among others to manufacture devices that directly compete with the iPhone/iPad and also create a better version of their apps for Android (which is only natural). Apple would be "feeding the monster" as it were by allowing Google to have the default maps app and search engine on iOS as their business model benefits directly and they generate revenue from those things.
Wipe off the map was a punny headline. I think you missed the pun
Turn by turn navigation is too hyped and I also wonder how many will actually use it.
The wrong destinations directed by turn by turn navigation are the stuff of legends.
No way! I love my TomTom. It's a tool like anything else. I love Wikipedia but I don't assume the info it proffers is absolutely factual. Tools are suppose to make your life easier but that doesn't mean one should stop critically when using them.
+1...oops... that's Google's... whatever.
Funny how science fiction, movies and TV shows at some point in time, become reality rather than a "spacey vision" from an author or script writer.
Every time this location and tracking business by Google comes up, I think of Terminator and John Connor. While the complete story-line is fiction, the underlying premise is not.... and the technology is here right now and being expanded.
At what point in time, does the data fall into the hands of an unsavory government, for example one that is trying to "secure it's borders against terrorism" and creates an agency and laws to help them in that "cause"? Possibly "nationalizing" a major information database to achieve the results faster.
And at that time, what additional and unconstitutional freedoms would "the people" give up, to be tracked, accounted for, searched, and their personal data accumulated to be proven innocent from subversive behavior?
Nah! Never gonna happen... I'm just trippin' on the heat wave here! I'm just happy my real name isn't John Connor (Emoticon: Sunglasses- Smoking-Therapeutic-Substance)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC
Turn by turn navigation is too hyped and I also wonder how many will actually use it.
The wrong destinations directed by turn by turn navigation are the stuff of legends.
"too hyped"? What does that mean? Would you say sex is "too hyped"? Maybe it's connected with the next:
"how many will actually use it"? Around these parts, practically everybody does (use a navi, I mean
"The wrong destinations directed by turn by turn navigation are the stuff of legends." The problem may lie more with legends than with navis. I've been using TomToms, both as a dedicated device and on my iPhone for years, all over Europe and North America, and have very rarely been mis-directed. It has happened a few times, though, and is really frustrating, but that problem is due to my own dumbed-downness, due to the problem described above. C'mon, if these things were so notoriously bad, no one would be using them, and they'd go the way of the Edsel. Fact is, navis, any of them, are head and shoulders better than Google Maps for navigation.
My own bottom line: TomToms are very good, useful, and reliable. If they've partnered with Apple, and Apple adds its own modifications, Apple's navigation is likely to be fantastic, and will become a must-have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Those TeleAtlas cars aren't doing "streetview" work. They're simply to make mapping and routing more accurate by making note of actual intersections and/or roadway details including signs and any other road markings. They have no plans for any publicly available "Streetview" similar to Google.
http://www.fonstuinstra.net/?p=1783
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/29/tomtom-working-on-its-own-street-view-like-service/
Yes, TomTom has said they do not have a streetview service today and no public plans to offer such. But they have the raw data required, Apple has deep pockets and a deep penchant for secrecy.
Do you seriously believe that Teleatlas is NOT going to offer streetview when it is ready when NavTeq will?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
http://www.fonstuinstra.net/?p=1783
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/29/tomtom-working-on-its-own-street-view-like-service/
Yes, TomTom has said they do not have a streetview service today and no public plans to offer such. But they have the raw data required, Apple has deep pockets and a deep penchant for secrecy.
Do you seriously believe that Teleatlas is NOT going to offer streetview when it is ready when NavTeq will?
Yes, I seriously believe TomTom won't offer streetview. And no they do not have the raw data required. They have some particular roadways driven with their mapping vans, but they don't have very many vans in the first place. I believe there's only about 20 covering all of Europe, hardly enough to drive every regional roadway in it's entirety, much less local roads. That handful of TeleAtlas vans are instead dispatched to survey those areas with the most reported changes or errors, The TeleAtlas planned surveys also consider the time of year. You don't want to be checking a new highway in Finland in the middle of a snowstorm in the dead of winter.
Add in the significant staff cutbacks at TeleAtlas North American offices in New Hampshire and Tomtom doesn't have the people nor resources to do a streetview project IMHO. They're a shell of what they were 5 years ago.
Apple on the other hand has an abundance of resources, but why would they be interested in doing a streetview-like project? Their mapping is only going to be used on Apple devices. Unless Apple is planning a major focus on targeted advertising as a significant revenue stream, which means aggressive tracking of their users travels and online searches, I don't see them putting the emphasis on mapping that Google does.
The loss of Google maps will stop me upgrading to iOS6 until I am really sure the quality of data I used with Google is still there.
I do use walking directions.
I use public transport directions.
I see that maps from Apple posted in the article lack footpaths, that were shown on the Google map.
I also use satellite images sometimes to clarify what I'm looking at.
I don't care about the Spiderman view, I just want good data, in all countries and Google has provided lots of it.
I can see how Apple and friends can work on features, but that body of raw data can't be just coded in.
So besides eliminating Google map, are they eliminating the Google search engine which is on iOS 5 Safari now and use the crappy Yahoo which has too many information on their search engine page?
I just tested Yahoo Search Engine page.........one word......CRAP!
What other search engine is better than Google at the moment folks? Please tell me........
I have absolutely no idea how you cam to that conclusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Apple on the other hand has an abundance of resources, but why would they be interested in doing a streetview-like project? Their mapping is only going to be used on Apple devices. Unless Apple is planning a major focus on targeted advertising as a significant revenue stream, which means aggressive tracking of their users travels and online searches, I don't see them putting the emphasis on mapping that Google does.
Because it's actually useful in finding your actual destination?
Yeah, they could lose interest in mapping and not bother but it's a significant lack. If they can't license from NavTeq or Google then TomTom has a viable economic reason to collect and sell to Apple. Given that they started using the higher mast 360 camera I believe they have a good amount of usable street view imagery but probably not large enough for Apple to make a launch feature.
It depends on whether or not MS/Nokia is willing to collaborate with Apple on this. Even if they do Apple is dependent on their good will in negotiating how long this collaboration will last. Mapping is important to the platform, enough for the current non-trivial level of investment. Building a second class mapping service is like building Bing.
So either Apple will invest the amount to do so or drop it like Ping. Given it's a core service I think they have no choice and they already made the choice not to partner with Google and choose not to or were unable to partner with MS.
Originally Posted by Chairman Mao
So besides eliminating Google map, are they eliminating the Google search engine which is on iOS 5 Safari now and use the crappy Yahoo which has too many information on their search engine page?
There won't be any more updates to iOS 5. Google Maps will stick around there forever, as it will on all previous versions. Google, Yahoo!, and Bing are all accessible in Safari. Just change your preferences.
What other search engine is better than Google at the moment folks? Please tell me........
I've seen people mention DuckDuckGo, but I know nothing about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta
This might be the stupidest thing I've read on AI, and that's saying a lot. You could apply your same argument to literally every single feature of iOS. We got by fine before smartphones, so who needs them?
Oh come on, it isn't THAT bad… frankly, I got by without 'virtual maps', 'turn by turn navigation' and 'mobile phones' for the first 2/3 of my life… I was making MORE money before all that came along too...
He didn't say "Who needs 'em"… but his main premise (which I think you missed) is sound.
Here's to the EXPLORERS, willing to blaze new trails where there are no maps… to boldly go where no… yeah, them.
If the Sun "burped" tomorrow, and knocked out our internet and phone services, we'd crash and burn… for a week, maybe a month… then we'd pick up, dust off and make do.
You might even find life is pretty good when you remove the "ball and chain" of technology sometimes...
But then again, other than holidays, you couldn't take my car navigation away if you paid me! It WILL take a major solar event before I give that up