All that was obvious, don't cha know. There is absolutely no other way to way to do anything except the way Apple does it... though surprisingly only right after Apple does it.
Seriously though, it's unbelievable people could actually defend this type of behavior for a company. Even if you like Samsung their fans should at least have the ability to be reasonably fair and honest. It's all sounding quite pathetic that what DaHarder once said was stupid, dumb, pointless, and guaranteed to fail he's now saying was natural, obvious, and self-evident.
So what is Samsung to do?
1. Don't use the bounce. OK.
2. Don't use the double tap. OK
3. Don't use a horizontal swipe to unlock. OK.
I think all of those things could be easily licensed easily enough.
So what should Apple do?
1. Pay the licensing fees for the FRAND patents.
So, the only issue is trade and dress. Should Samsung not be allowed to make black or white tablets? Should Samsung not be able to make a tablet that is as thin or thinner than the competition? Should Samsung not be able to use a glass touchscreen?
These are serious questions. At what point does Apple "own" the tablet design that uses black/white, rectangular shape, glass touchscreen panel, etc etc? Is Apple the ONLY company that can use this design. Must everyone else make an ugly looking tablet? I base the idea of attractiveness on what the customer expects. There are certain car designs elements that are expected in a sleek and sexy car. So if Toyota wants to make a sleek sports car must they avoid using smooth lines so as not to upset the other automobile manufacturers?
At some point this crap has to end.
Those are all reasonable questions, but doesn't the issue come down to the sum of the parts? It's not a big deal, I think, if a company brings out a device that shares some characteristics with another company's designs, but when it adds up to the appearance of substantially trying to imitate, then it goes too far. And there are plenty of tablets out there that don't do that. Where to draw the line is going to be difficult, but these lawsuits will probably point the way.
You might want to take a long, hard look in the mirror, as his comments clearly apply to you, as well as several other of the fanatical bullies around here who feel their 'opinion' is the only valid 'opinion'.
I found his posts much easier to understand after enabling the block list.
Seems like a cop out to me; aside from depriving yourself of the comedy value of those posters, I like to think that I am able to perform my own filtering on what I read and respond to. I'm deluding myself of course.
It is common knowledge that Samsung stole Apple's icons.
Really? I guess it is safe to say that it is common knowledge then, that Apple stole RIM's BBM, Google's Notification Center and a whole host of Android design features like ota os updates, split keyboard, and now we see Apple attempting to copy Google maps/earth.
Funny, but it's probably safe to say, you don't think any of that is 'stealing' by Apple though, right?
You might want to take a long, hard look in the mirror, as his comments clearly apply to you, as well as several other of the fanatical bullies around here who feel their 'opinion' is the only valid 'opinion'.
For some reason you suddenly remind me of the hunter in that joke about the hunter and the bear - the one that ends with the bear saying "you're not really here for the hunting, are you?"
Just curious - why can't you stand the company? Presumably not just the tax thing.
Reasonable question. The tax thing for one. Other US companies do this and I don't like them either. My dislike is very much centered on Apple building itself up on the backs of other, in this case students, and then forgetting about them. Case in point. When the iPod came out Apple was giving discounts to students who purchased them. Apple also gave discounts to students who bought computers. As the iPod became more ubiquitous Apple stopped giving students a discount. Apple has also continued to reduce the discount that students receive when buying a computer. Finally, Apple used to give a free iPod to students who bought a new system for the fall. First they reduced the value of the credit to a new iPod and now have switched over to giving $100 credit on iTunes.
I am sure some folks will claim students are lucky to get anything at all (true) and that the students who bring this up (of which I am one - returning student) are self-centered/self-important/self-entitled. Those statements might hold water if Apple had never given better discounts to students in the past. But as Apple's profits and market share have risen, they have reduced what the students who supported them receive.
Also, I have been using Apple computers since my first Apple IIc, and I have never gotten over how Apple overprices their systems. Yes, they last and yes they are easy to use, but the elitest attitude of Apple and Jobs always rubbed me the wrong way.
Why do I keep buying Apple products? Because, up to now, they have been the best choice for use on a day to day basis. But, I am really starting to reconsider whether that is true or not anymore, especially considering the direction that OSX seems to be heading. As it stands, we are going to be stuck with Snow Leopard until our Mac Mini dies.
It is common knowledge that Samsung stole Apple's icons.
Really? I guess it is safe to say that it is common knowledge then, that Apple stole RIM's BBM, Google's Notification Center and a whole host of Android design features like ota os updates, split keyboard, and now we see Apple attempting to copy Google maps/earth.
Funny, but it's probably safe to say, you don't think any of that is 'stealing' by Apple though, right?
Really? I guess it is safe to say that it is common knowledge then, that Apple stole RIM's BBM, Google's Notification Center and a whole host of Android design features like ota os updates, split keyboard, and now we see Apple attempting to copy Google maps/earth.
Funny, but it's probably safe to say, you don't think any of that is 'stealing' by Apple though, right?
I have to agree with this. I don't understand how Apple can be "inspired" by these ideas, yet Samsung is considered having done something wrong. And...why has none of this been brought up in the trial? The jury needs to know these things so that a reasonable decision can be made and both Apple and Samsung can stop wasting our hard earned $$$ paying armies of slime ball lawyers (yes I have friends and family who are lawyers and it does embarrass me).
Just curious - why can't you stand the company? Presumably not just the tax thing.
Reasonable question. The tax thing for one. Other US companies do this and I don't like them either. My dislike is very much centered on Apple building itself up on the backs of other, in this case students, and then forgetting about them. Case in point. When the iPod came out Apple was giving discounts to students who purchased them. Apple also gave discounts to students who bought computers. As the iPod became more ubiquitous Apple stopped giving students a discount. Apple has also continued to reduce the discount that students receive when buying a computer. Finally, Apple used to give a free iPod to students who bought a new system for the fall. First they reduced the value of the credit to a new iPod and now have switched over to giving $100 credit on iTunes.
I am sure some folks will claim students are lucky to get anything at all (true) and that the students who bring this up (of which I am one - returning student) are self-centered/self-important/self-entitled. Those statements might hold water if Apple had never given better discounts to students in the past. But as Apple's profits and market share have risen, they have reduced what the students who supported them receive.
Also, I have been using Apple computers since my first Apple IIc, and I have never gotten over how Apple overprices their systems. Yes, they last and yes they are easy to use, but the elitest attitude of Apple and Jobs always rubbed me the wrong way.
Why do I keep buying Apple products? Because, up to now, they have been the best choice for use on a day to day basis. But, I am really starting to reconsider whether that is true or not anymore, especially considering the direction that OSX seems to be heading. As it stands, we are going to be stuck with Snow Leopard until our Mac Mini dies.
That's a coincidence - my first Apple computer was also a IIc.
Interesting view on the discount issue. They still have their education discount website. Should they do more? I don't know - how do their discounts compare to the competition? From a purely business point of view, one could argue that they discount to increase demand, and if demand is high then no need to discount heavily. I'm not sure that I would judge a company by that metric, but I can see the argument.
On the price - I don't follow the reasoning. You think they have always been overpriced, yet you have always bought them. Doesn't that mean that your cost/benefit analysis concluded that they are worth it?
Why the **** are you here if you don't think Apple as a company deserves a shred of credit and don't like any of their products? I'm serious. Why? Why waste your time on an Apple fan site?
I have to agree with this. I don't understand how Apple can be "inspired" by these ideas, yet Samsung is considered having done something wrong. And...why has none of this been brought up in the trial? The jury needs to know these things so that a reasonable decision can be made and both Apple and Samsung can stop wasting our hard earned $$$ paying armies of slime ball lawyers (yes I have friends and family who are lawyers and it does embarrass me).
...and it appears that Apple had been 'inspired' by Samsung designs long before the iPhone ever existed:
In 2005 Samsung had just released the SGH-E910 "fashion phone" with a similar arrangement, and iPod head Tony Fadell sent an Engadget blog post about the phone to Jobs and other Apple execs. "Weird way to hold the cellphone," said Fadell, but using the round center control pad "seems comfortable." Upon seeing the design, Jobs was typically direct. "This may be our answer — we could put the number pad around our click wheel," he wrote to Jony Ive and Apple designer Bas Ording. "Of course we should orient it like a watch, with 3, 6, 9, and * in the pure horizontal and vertical positions, just like any clock."
As ALL companies likely 'size up' their wares against the competition, and then seek to improve upon said competition's efforts.
Apple has made a complete industry out of doing exactly this... Inventing Nothing but Improving Upon What Others Already Created.
And you wonder why people complain about your posts. Seriously? Apple has invented nothing? All they do is improve on what others have done? This is beyond stupid, and making such a blanket statement is enough for people to discount anything else you say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Just because I happen to own dozens upon dozens of Apple products doesn't mean that they do no wrong.... It's a Tech Company, Not A Cult.
There are a lot of racists out there who say something like: "I'm Black so this isn't racist. I'm just commenting on things my people do that bother me." It's called the "concerned troll". Someone who claims to like or support a company, but only has negative things to say because they want the company to improve their products and get rid of the defects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Not True... and just because you appear to be highly 'selective' as to which posts you deem Apple-worthy is of no concern to me.
I support Apple, as well as any other company I choose, by buying/using their products... because that's all that really matters ;-)
Highly selective? Your very first post in this thread is pure garbage and contributes nothing worthwhile to the discussion. In fact, I went back to a couple other recent threads and your first posts in those were crap too. So tell us, how is that "highly selective" when the firstwords out of your mouth are nothing more than a toilet flushing?
I have to agree with this. I don't understand how Apple can be "inspired" by these ideas, yet Samsung is considered having done something wrong. And...why has none of this been brought up in the trial? The jury needs to know these things so that a reasonable decision can be made and both Apple and Samsung can stop wasting our hard earned $$$ paying armies of slime ball lawyers (yes I have friends and family who are lawyers and it does embarrass me).
...and it appears that Apple had been 'inspired' by Samsung designs long before the iPhone ever existed:
<p style="font-family:Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;color:rgb(51,51,51);font-size:14px;margin-bottom:15px;line-height:23px;">In 2005 Samsung had just released the SGH-E910 "fashion phone" with a similar arrangement, and iPod head Tony Fadell sent an Engadget blog post about the phone to Jobs and other Apple execs. "Weird way to hold the cellphone," said Fadell, but using the round center control pad "seems comfortable." Upon seeing the design, Jobs was typically direct. "This may be our answer — we could put the number pad around our click wheel," he wrote to Jony Ive and Apple designer Bas Ording. "Of course we should orient it like a watch, with 3, 6, 9, and * in the pure horizontal and vertical positions, just like any clock." </p>
Uncanny resemblance - so that's where Apple stole the iPhone design from.
You should look up the word 'inspired' as it's clear that you have no idea what it means.
It's been revealed that Jobs & company at Apple were 'inspired' by this device upon seeing it, as it was similar to the direction they were intially considering for the iPhone.
That's a coincidence - my first Apple computer was also a IIc.
Interesting view on the discount issue. They still have their education discount website. Should they do more? I don't know - how do their discounts compare to the competition? From a purely business point of view, one could argue that they discount to increase demand, and if demand is high then no need to discount heavily. I'm not sure that I would judge a company by that metric, but I can see the argument.
On the price - I don't follow the reasoning. You think they have always been overpriced, yet you have always bought them. Doesn't that mean that your cost/benefit analysis concluded that they are worth it?
I would give a rat's arse about the discount if Apple didn't keep reducing it, while at the same time playing up the discount. If this turns into a "what are the others doing" idea so why should we do more (ie they want as much $$$) as possible, then Apple has just failed and become nothing more than another corporate clone and all their statements about caring about their customers and creating the best products is bunk.
The cost/benefit idea only works so far. Yes, a choice can be made based on the C/B analysis, but often the differences are very small. Sometimes you take the lesser of two evils. I buy gasoline for my car because I need it to run my vehicle. I do it, but I don't like it. I would much rather use a decent train system (especially after spending time in Tokyo). I sometimes have to eat fast food because my friends want a hamburger. I don't like it, but I do it. I bought Apple computers because I used to love Apple products, but now I buy them because they are a bit better than the competition. As it stands, I only own a three year old Mac Mini still running Snow Leopard. We have two iPhones. I would like to switch to a Galaxy Nexus, but most of my Jpop was purchased from the Japanese iTunes store and therefore still has DRM embedded in the files (grrrr). I am forced to either stay with the iTunes/iDevice ecosystem or repurchase all the music free of DRM (Zoinks!). There is no good solution to the issue. I, like many others, are stuck using the iTunes ecosystem and therefore am still in Apple's grip.
Uncanny resemblance - so that's where Apple stole the iPhone design from.
You should look up the word 'inspired' as it's clear that you have no idea what it means.
It's been revealed that Jobs & company at Apple were 'inspired' by this device upon seeing it, as it was similar to the direction they were intially considering for the iPhone.
Inspired to build something totally different apparently.
So what is Samsung to do?
1. Don't use the bounce. OK.
2. Don't use the double tap. OK
3. Don't use a horizontal swipe to unlock. OK.
I think all of those things could be easily licensed easily enough.
So what should Apple do?
1. Pay the licensing fees for the FRAND patents.
So, the only issue is trade and dress. Should Samsung not be allowed to make black or white tablets? Should Samsung not be able to make a tablet that is as thin or thinner than the competition? Should Samsung not be able to use a glass touchscreen?
These are serious questions. At what point does Apple "own" the tablet design that uses black/white, rectangular shape, glass touchscreen panel, etc etc? Is Apple the ONLY company that can use this design. Must everyone else make an ugly looking tablet? I base the idea of attractiveness on what the customer expects. There are certain car designs elements that are expected in a sleek and sexy car. So if Toyota wants to make a sleek sports car must they avoid using smooth lines so as not to upset the other automobile manufacturers?
At some point this crap has to end.
[/quote]
The fact remains, Apple was the first manufacturer to focus on rounded rectangles as the primary shape. How or if that image should be protected is issue at trial. There are a handful of devices that in common use are very difficult to tell from an iPhone. There is some differentiation, but not much.
So... If you ignore the minimalism aspect, what do you do when you generate an iconic form and everybody else copies it? Come up with a new iconic form every two years, just to have the same thing happen?
Comments
good point
You talking to DaHarder or someone else?
I found his posts much easier to understand after enabling the block list.
Those are all reasonable questions, but doesn't the issue come down to the sum of the parts? It's not a big deal, I think, if a company brings out a device that shares some characteristics with another company's designs, but when it adds up to the appearance of substantially trying to imitate, then it goes too far. And there are plenty of tablets out there that don't do that. Where to draw the line is going to be difficult, but these lawsuits will probably point the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
You talking to DaHarder or someone else?
You might want to take a long, hard look in the mirror, as his comments clearly apply to you, as well as several other of the fanatical bullies around here who feel their 'opinion' is the only valid 'opinion'.
Seems like a cop out to me; aside from depriving yourself of the comedy value of those posters, I like to think that I am able to perform my own filtering on what I read and respond to. I'm deluding myself of course.
Funny, but it's probably safe to say, you don't think any of that is 'stealing' by Apple though, right?
For some reason you suddenly remind me of the hunter in that joke about the hunter and the bear - the one that ends with the bear saying "you're not really here for the hunting, are you?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
Just curious - why can't you stand the company? Presumably not just the tax thing.
Reasonable question. The tax thing for one. Other US companies do this and I don't like them either. My dislike is very much centered on Apple building itself up on the backs of other, in this case students, and then forgetting about them. Case in point. When the iPod came out Apple was giving discounts to students who purchased them. Apple also gave discounts to students who bought computers. As the iPod became more ubiquitous Apple stopped giving students a discount. Apple has also continued to reduce the discount that students receive when buying a computer. Finally, Apple used to give a free iPod to students who bought a new system for the fall. First they reduced the value of the credit to a new iPod and now have switched over to giving $100 credit on iTunes.
I am sure some folks will claim students are lucky to get anything at all (true) and that the students who bring this up (of which I am one - returning student) are self-centered/self-important/self-entitled. Those statements might hold water if Apple had never given better discounts to students in the past. But as Apple's profits and market share have risen, they have reduced what the students who supported them receive.
Also, I have been using Apple computers since my first Apple IIc, and I have never gotten over how Apple overprices their systems. Yes, they last and yes they are easy to use, but the elitest attitude of Apple and Jobs always rubbed me the wrong way.
Why do I keep buying Apple products? Because, up to now, they have been the best choice for use on a day to day basis. But, I am really starting to reconsider whether that is true or not anymore, especially considering the direction that OSX seems to be heading. As it stands, we are going to be stuck with Snow Leopard until our Mac Mini dies.
What's really funny is who you are replying to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World
Really? I guess it is safe to say that it is common knowledge then, that Apple stole RIM's BBM, Google's Notification Center and a whole host of Android design features like ota os updates, split keyboard, and now we see Apple attempting to copy Google maps/earth.
Funny, but it's probably safe to say, you don't think any of that is 'stealing' by Apple though, right?
I have to agree with this. I don't understand how Apple can be "inspired" by these ideas, yet Samsung is considered having done something wrong. And...why has none of this been brought up in the trial? The jury needs to know these things so that a reasonable decision can be made and both Apple and Samsung can stop wasting our hard earned $$$ paying armies of slime ball lawyers (yes I have friends and family who are lawyers and it does embarrass me).
That's a coincidence - my first Apple computer was also a IIc.
Interesting view on the discount issue. They still have their education discount website. Should they do more? I don't know - how do their discounts compare to the competition? From a purely business point of view, one could argue that they discount to increase demand, and if demand is high then no need to discount heavily. I'm not sure that I would judge a company by that metric, but I can see the argument.
On the price - I don't follow the reasoning. You think they have always been overpriced, yet you have always bought them. Doesn't that mean that your cost/benefit analysis concluded that they are worth it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
Why the **** are you here if you don't think Apple as a company deserves a shred of credit and don't like any of their products? I'm serious. Why? Why waste your time on an Apple fan site?
I think he's kinky
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
I have to agree with this. I don't understand how Apple can be "inspired" by these ideas, yet Samsung is considered having done something wrong. And...why has none of this been brought up in the trial? The jury needs to know these things so that a reasonable decision can be made and both Apple and Samsung can stop wasting our hard earned $$$ paying armies of slime ball lawyers (yes I have friends and family who are lawyers and it does embarrass me).
...and it appears that Apple had been 'inspired' by Samsung designs long before the iPhone ever existed:
In 2005 Samsung had just released the SGH-E910 "fashion phone" with a similar arrangement, and iPod head Tony Fadell sent an Engadget blog post about the phone to Jobs and other Apple execs. "Weird way to hold the cellphone," said Fadell, but using the round center control pad "seems comfortable." Upon seeing the design, Jobs was typically direct. "This may be our answer — we could put the number pad around our click wheel," he wrote to Jony Ive and Apple designer Bas Ording. "Of course we should orient it like a watch, with 3, 6, 9, and * in the pure horizontal and vertical positions, just like any clock."
*The Verge
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
As ALL companies likely 'size up' their wares against the competition, and then seek to improve upon said competition's efforts.
Apple has made a complete industry out of doing exactly this... Inventing Nothing but Improving Upon What Others Already Created.
And you wonder why people complain about your posts. Seriously? Apple has invented nothing? All they do is improve on what others have done? This is beyond stupid, and making such a blanket statement is enough for people to discount anything else you say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Just because I happen to own dozens upon dozens of Apple products doesn't mean that they do no wrong.... It's a Tech Company, Not A Cult.
There are a lot of racists out there who say something like: "I'm Black so this isn't racist. I'm just commenting on things my people do that bother me." It's called the "concerned troll". Someone who claims to like or support a company, but only has negative things to say because they want the company to improve their products and get rid of the defects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Not True... and just because you appear to be highly 'selective' as to which posts you deem Apple-worthy is of no concern to me.
I support Apple, as well as any other company I choose, by buying/using their products... because that's all that really matters ;-)
Highly selective? Your very first post in this thread is pure garbage and contributes nothing worthwhile to the discussion. In fact, I went back to a couple other recent threads and your first posts in those were crap too. So tell us, how is that "highly selective" when the first words out of your mouth are nothing more than a toilet flushing?
Uncanny resemblance - so that's where Apple stole the iPhone design from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
Uncanny resemblance - so that's where Apple stole the iPhone design from.
You should look up the word 'inspired' as it's clear that you have no idea what it means.
It's been revealed that Jobs & company at Apple were 'inspired' by this device upon seeing it, as it was similar to the direction they were intially considering for the iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry
That's a coincidence - my first Apple computer was also a IIc.
Interesting view on the discount issue. They still have their education discount website. Should they do more? I don't know - how do their discounts compare to the competition? From a purely business point of view, one could argue that they discount to increase demand, and if demand is high then no need to discount heavily. I'm not sure that I would judge a company by that metric, but I can see the argument.
On the price - I don't follow the reasoning. You think they have always been overpriced, yet you have always bought them. Doesn't that mean that your cost/benefit analysis concluded that they are worth it?
I would give a rat's arse about the discount if Apple didn't keep reducing it, while at the same time playing up the discount. If this turns into a "what are the others doing" idea so why should we do more (ie they want as much $$$) as possible, then Apple has just failed and become nothing more than another corporate clone and all their statements about caring about their customers and creating the best products is bunk.
The cost/benefit idea only works so far. Yes, a choice can be made based on the C/B analysis, but often the differences are very small. Sometimes you take the lesser of two evils. I buy gasoline for my car because I need it to run my vehicle. I do it, but I don't like it. I would much rather use a decent train system (especially after spending time in Tokyo). I sometimes have to eat fast food because my friends want a hamburger. I don't like it, but I do it. I bought Apple computers because I used to love Apple products, but now I buy them because they are a bit better than the competition. As it stands, I only own a three year old Mac Mini still running Snow Leopard. We have two iPhones. I would like to switch to a Galaxy Nexus, but most of my Jpop was purchased from the Japanese iTunes store and therefore still has DRM embedded in the files (grrrr). I am forced to either stay with the iTunes/iDevice ecosystem or repurchase all the music free of DRM (Zoinks!). There is no good solution to the issue. I, like many others, are stuck using the iTunes ecosystem and therefore am still in Apple's grip.
Inspired to build something totally different apparently.
1. Don't use the bounce. OK.
2. Don't use the double tap. OK
3. Don't use a horizontal swipe to unlock. OK.
I think all of those things could be easily licensed easily enough.
So what should Apple do?
1. Pay the licensing fees for the FRAND patents.
So, the only issue is trade and dress. Should Samsung not be allowed to make black or white tablets? Should Samsung not be able to make a tablet that is as thin or thinner than the competition? Should Samsung not be able to use a glass touchscreen?
These are serious questions. At what point does Apple "own" the tablet design that uses black/white, rectangular shape, glass touchscreen panel, etc etc? Is Apple the ONLY company that can use this design. Must everyone else make an ugly looking tablet? I base the idea of attractiveness on what the customer expects. There are certain car designs elements that are expected in a sleek and sexy car. So if Toyota wants to make a sleek sports car must they avoid using smooth lines so as not to upset the other automobile manufacturers?
At some point this crap has to end.
[/quote]
The fact remains, Apple was the first manufacturer to focus on rounded rectangles as the primary shape. How or if that image should be protected is issue at trial. There are a handful of devices that in common use are very difficult to tell from an iPhone. There is some differentiation, but not much.
So... If you ignore the minimalism aspect, what do you do when you generate an iconic form and everybody else copies it? Come up with a new iconic form every two years, just to have the same thing happen?