Making it longer should have opened up a ton of new internal space, more than Apple could have arguably filled.
Yeah they could have just packed the remaining unused space with extra battery, but why do that as long as they can achieve an impressive battery life otherwise?
OTOH, the original iPhone was just a tad bit too thin to hold comfortably. The 3G is still the most comfortable of the iPhone designs to hold, but it is still a tad bit too thick for me. The 4 got it about right.
I have a friend with a RAZR and that phone is uncomfortably thin to hold. The fact it's also a plastic housing makes it seem incredibly fragile as well, despite being extremely long and uncomfortably wide.
I can't argue with the thickness or battery life as the first isn't too thick and the battery could always be better but I would be weight would be the biggest issue with going with a 50% larger battery. I'd argue that it would then be too heavy to be comfortable. (Note: I know you said battery life, not battery size, but without better tech it's currently one and the same.)
From the reduction of so many other components and the change in the front and back paneling it's possible they could have increased the battery capacity a bit. i doubt it's by much if they did, but it still could be possible to get better battery life from even the same size or smaller battery with the new tech. The LTE chip should be (hopefully) using the 28nm lithography and at least be more power efficient than the iPhone 3G on 3G when it arrived in 2008.
I didn't say make it thicker, I said don't make it thinner. I'm making some assumptions, but surely the whole thickness of the phone isn't battery, at any point. The fact that it is becoming so much taller should leave a giant empty space in the case for more battery. There shouldn't need to be much more internal space used by anything as a result of the taller screen, really. So most of that height is probably going to extra battery. That would net a much bigger battery if they did not make it thinner. But if they do, then they're just taking away that benefit. And I'm going to have finally break down and buy a battery case, because I can't deal with running out of battery at 5 PM anymore.
PS: I'm most concerned with how Apple will do LTE operating bands for the rest of the world. It's one thing to focus on the US for the iPad but a smartphone is different. While LTE uses the same baseband they do need different HW for different markets (read: countries) for the operating bands. Maybe Qualcomm was able to make them a baseband that allowed for a half-dozen or more operating bands but I doubt it. I'm thinking we'll see LTE iPhones that are now regionalized because of the LTE bands.
This is concern for me too. Its possible the Qualcomm new chip will have more support indeed.
1) The battery life always either stays the same or increases substantially between models.
2) The current battery life is the best in the business.
CLAIMED battery life either stays the same or increases. Actual battery life? Mine goes down every year. I've had every new phone, each one for no more than a month after the next came out.
Pales in comparison to the Razr Maxx. Give me an iPhone Maxx. I'll pay an extra $100 for a battery with twice the capacity, which should only make the phone a tiny bit thicker.
the iphone is a victim of its sucess. what does this mean? samsung (for example) can take the risk and put the latest and greatest on their new phone (the note) because it will "only" sell a few million during the first half of the year. However apple needs something that is tested until saturation point and 100pc dominated tech because they will sell it in the 7digit figure since month one. they cannot risk that much on the pure hardware side. to be innovative while riding on the 2007 sucess they need to "create" features like siri until they think that they gained enough with it and are ready to destroy and recreate the mobile arena again and that's when your theory makes sense. maybe when they reach 300billion revenue per year, 2013 (or when they reach 500billion...)
Sounds like Apple has a problem Microsoft is very familiar with.
The ability to be disruptive to your own product line is what has made Apple's computers and OSes so good over the years as compared to MS dragging along DOS bloat. Sounds like you think this is reversed in phones.
1) The battery life always either stays the same or increases substantially between models.
2) The current battery life is the best in the business.
The 4s is far from being the best in the business. The 4s batterie life is pretty horrible actually. The ipad3 battery life is also worst than the ipad2
Not really. I just reckon how it will look in comparison with my current iPhone 4S. It'll look way too tall and narrow. In one word - UGLY.
You will get used to it. My guess, if the iP4 had the rumored specifications of the new iPhone and they would say it's going to be shorter in the next iteration, your comment would be:
It'll look way too small and fat. In one word - UGLY
A Day Made of Glass - Corning -- for phone jump to 1:40, although the other things are quite interesting as well, as they relate to design patents and today's court cases.
Corning has a very high estimation of themselves based on this video.
Nevertheless, makes me want to run out and buy a lot of Corning stock.
However, I do love a phone that has no place to hold the electronics to run it, or an antenna, much less a battery to support such powerful graphics!!
the iphone is a victim of its sucess. what does this mean? samsung (for example) can take the risk and put the latest and greatest on their new phone (the note) because it will "only" sell a few million during the first half of the year. However apple needs something that is tested until saturation point and 100pc dominated tech because they will sell it in the 7digit figure since month one. they cannot risk that much on the pure hardware side. to be innovative while riding on the 2007 sucess they need to "create" features like siri until they think that they gained enough with it and are ready to destroy and recreate the mobile arena again and that's when your theory makes sense. maybe when they reach 300billion revenue per year, 2013 (or when they reach 500billion...)
I think there is a more pressing issue that falls under the lesser known diseconomies of scale, even though it's not quite the right term to use. Apple is in the unique position of having a premium product that sells more than the average, inexpensive product. This is great for business but it also means they need to have the latest components in quantity on launch day that far exceeds their rivals which means they need to stock pile a lot farther in advance and at much higher quantity and yet are still likely to launch afterwards due to the volumes needed to meet demand.
This issue is one that isn't easy overcome in a finite world which is one reason I do expect them to vary the brand in ways that can use different components so they can maximize sales if component issues arise.
Making it longer should have opened up a ton of new internal space, more than Apple could have arguably filled.
Yeah they could have just packed the remaining unused space with extra battery, but why do that as long as they can achieve an impressive battery life otherwise?
OTOH, the original iPhone was just a tad bit too thin to hold comfortably. The 3G is still the most comfortable of the iPhone designs to hold, but it is still a tad bit too thick for me. The 4 got it about right.
I have a friend with a RAZR and that phone is uncomfortably thin to hold. The fact it's also a plastic housing makes it seem incredibly fragile as well, despite being extremely long and uncomfortably wide.
The battery life is not impressive to me. It's a constant problem for me. And I've had nothing but iPhones for the last 5 years.
The iPhone 4S is the thinnest ever so I don't see your praise of it being thicker than the 1 making any sense.
I think there is a more pressing issue that falls under the lesser known diseconomies of scale, even though it's not quite the right term to use. Apple is in the unique position of having a premium product that sells more than the average, inexpensive product. This is great for business but it also means they need to have the latest components in quantity on launch day that far exceeds their rivals which means they need to stock pile a lot farther in advance and at much higher quantity and yet are still likely to launch afterwards due to the volumes needed to meet demand.
This issue is one that isn't easy overcome in a finite world which is one reason I do expect them to vary the brand in ways that can use different components so they can maximize sales if component issues arise.
You're right, other smartphone aren't even close.
My eyes must be failing me, sonny... can you point me to the Droid Razr Maxx on that chart please?
Not just those wanting to make silly fashion statements. Thin makes about as much sense as diamond encrusted.
I don't know. Most phones go into pockets. A thinner phone with a bigger screen is a great improvement. The less noticeable it can be in your pocket, the better.
For people who want giant phones with more than 24 hours of battery life, there's always stuff like this: http://www.phonesuit.com ;
The thing that worries me the most about the next iPhone is really that nano SIM. There will be a massive changeover from micro to nano SIMS and if we believe the reports probably in less than a months time. I see almost no indications from the carriers as to what their policy is going to be on SIM exchanges in my country or any other. I've heard reports of some European carriers "stockpiling" nano SIMs but no clear indication in the USA or Canada that any of the carriers are even thinking about this let alone planning for it.
It's hard to see how those SIMs, which come with the device will be a supply issue, but this is a different issue than the Min-SIM to Micro-SIM non-issue with the iPhone 4 back in 2010. Back then the SIM change was still the same thickness (0.76mm) but this new Nano-SIM is (0.67mm) so even if you can trim the plastic again and the contacts line up if your old SIM is too thick to fit you are SOL.
On another note, I do think it's a bit juvenile the way this article uses percentages instead of real measurements to make things sound like they are radically different in size when in fact we are really just talking about a millimetre here and there. In an argument (or an article) about the increase in internal volume, it would make more sense for someone to actually calculate what the difference in internal volumes is between the two models than it would to talk about "40% savings" on the already incredibly tiny SIM tray.
Hmm... I wouldn't use the word juvenile but I would say that it's not very thorough. I'd love for a site to detail all the changes and then compare them.
And that's where the 32nm A5 on the ipad 2 runs the show, right? the a5x is too big and power hungry and it is too soon for the rumoured a6, so that's the only option?
I'm actually betting on an all-new A6 chip for the iPhone 5, I think it will be the main surprise Apple has for us next month.
The A5 has already been used in the iPhone 4S, and the A5X is basically the same thing with more RAM and a much faster GPU. The iPhone 5 wouldn't benefit nearly as much from doubling the graphics performance because it is rendering less than half the pixels compared to the iPad 3. Most of that power would go to waste. Of course Apple could use the dual-core GPU from the iPad 3 but clock it lower to save battery, but then you would still have the same CPU performance as the iPhone 4S. To make the thing at least a little faster they could use a 32 nm A5X and clock it a little higher, but I wouldn't expect much more than 10% to 20% performance gains.
Somehow I don't believe Apple will release a new iPhone that is only marginally faster than the 4S. The competition is already using Cortex-A15 based SoC's that are faster clock-for-clock, or quad-core SoC's that are faster in multithreaded tasks. I think Apple needs to move to a Cortex-A15 dual or quad-core produced at 32 or 28 nm, and I think they can do it, Samsung dedicated a whole fab to the production of SoC's for Apple, and they already have their 28 nm process more or less sorted out.
My eyes must be failing me, sonny... can you point me to the Droid Razr Maxx on that chart please?
They must be, among other things, as I assume you're attempting to say that phone with 237% the battery capacity of the iPhone 4S somehow invalides my response to 1) the 4s battery life is far worse than the 4, 2) not even close to other phones, despite my proving otherwise.
Here are the results of the Droid RZR MAXX. It's simply amazing that a phone with 5 Whr battery could even come close, much less beat a phone with 12 Whr battery in any test. It solidifies just how good Apple is at power management -and/or- just how bad Android and/or their vendors are it.
You will get used to it. My guess, if the iP4 had the rumored specifications of the new iPhone and they would say it's going to be shorter in the next iteration, your comment would be:
It'll look way too small and fat. In one word - UGLY
I really hope that you will be right. Fingers crossed.
The iPhone 4S is the thinnest ever so I don't see your praise of it being thicker than the 1 making any sense.
Scratch that, reverse it ... The original is about as thin as I have comfortably held. The 4 is a little awkward. I do imagine a longer phone will make it easier to hold., but hard to slip into my jeans ...
As for battery life, I have had nothing but iPhones for 5 years and they all blow the pants off all of my friends Droids. The first 3 months of owning an iPhone, I have zero complaints about battery life, but the batteries quickly lose capacity and by the end of my 2 year contract I am cursing them. Putting a larger battery in here will not change is significantly.
Besides, it's all about compromise. You could put a battery in there that would allow you to surf the web, play video games, watch movies, and video conference on two bars all day. But I doubt anyone would want to carry around something that big. If Apple can achieve the same, and most likely improve the current battery life while making the case profile smaller, then why compromise the design to gain only marginal amount?
Yes "thinner" seems to sell. And my guess is the longer form factor will be an issue for some customers. I was all set to buy the new iPhone, but now I'm thinking I want to wait and see what happens. I prefer the current size, in fact I would prefer it to be a little smaller. So we'll see how well this phone sells compared to the 4S, and whether Apple maintains two form factors or returns to the smaller size, especially after components shrink allow them to reduce the size in the future.
I like the design. The focus and lighting on these photographs are better than we have seen previously.
I like the bevel on the edge. Also I think the speaker holes are cool being uneven. You know, why worry about the right and left being unequal since there is hardly any separation for stereo anyway. Just put as many holes as will fit allowing the dock to be centered. The jack on the bottom is the right design so whatever compromises need to made, that is the right solution.
My battery already lasts more than all day for me since I mostly do office work and not on the road. As long as the battery life is at least the same, it is fine. Thin...whatever. It doesn't need to be any thinner in my opinion but it doesn't matter to me if it is either.
Scratch that, reverse it ... The original is about as thin as I have comfortably held. The 4 is a little awkward. I do imagine a longer phone will make it easier to hold., but hard to slip into my jeans ...
As for battery life, I have had nothing but iPhones for 5 years and they all blow the pants off all of my friends Droids. The first 3 months of owning an iPhone, I have zero complaints about battery life, but the batteries quickly lose capacity and by the end of my 2 year contract I am cursing them. Putting a larger battery in here will not change is significantly.
Besides, it's all about compromise. You could put a battery in there that would allow you to surf the web, play video games, watch movies, and video conference on two bars all day. But I doubt anyone would want to carry around something that big. If Apple can achieve the same, and most likely improve the current battery life while making the case profile smaller, then why compromise the design to gain only marginal amount?
Yes "thinner" seems to sell. And my guess is the longer form factor will be an issue for some customers. I was all set to buy the new iPhone, but now I'm thinking I want to wait and see what happens. I prefer the current size, in fact I would prefer it to be a little smaller. So we'll see how well this phone sells compared to the 4S, and whether Apple maintains two form factors or returns to the smaller size, especially after components shrink allow them to reduce the size in the future.
I love this new design but that original iPhone was very comfortable to hold. Not sure I want the rest of the space filled with battery as that would be obnoxious but I'd for rounded, thicker and aluminum again.
Comments
So, about 1/5 larger screen (in both area and pixels) and about 1/8 smaller by volume. Get me one!
(The people who say a screen MUST be wider as well... do they want larger pixels, or a whole new pixel width for developers to deal with?)
Making it longer should have opened up a ton of new internal space, more than Apple could have arguably filled.
Yeah they could have just packed the remaining unused space with extra battery, but why do that as long as they can achieve an impressive battery life otherwise?
OTOH, the original iPhone was just a tad bit too thin to hold comfortably. The 3G is still the most comfortable of the iPhone designs to hold, but it is still a tad bit too thick for me. The 4 got it about right.
I have a friend with a RAZR and that phone is uncomfortably thin to hold. The fact it's also a plastic housing makes it seem incredibly fragile as well, despite being extremely long and uncomfortably wide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I can't argue with the thickness or battery life as the first isn't too thick and the battery could always be better but I would be weight would be the biggest issue with going with a 50% larger battery. I'd argue that it would then be too heavy to be comfortable. (Note: I know you said battery life, not battery size, but without better tech it's currently one and the same.)
From the reduction of so many other components and the change in the front and back paneling it's possible they could have increased the battery capacity a bit. i doubt it's by much if they did, but it still could be possible to get better battery life from even the same size or smaller battery with the new tech. The LTE chip should be (hopefully) using the 28nm lithography and at least be more power efficient than the iPhone 3G on 3G when it arrived in 2008.
I didn't say make it thicker, I said don't make it thinner. I'm making some assumptions, but surely the whole thickness of the phone isn't battery, at any point. The fact that it is becoming so much taller should leave a giant empty space in the case for more battery. There shouldn't need to be much more internal space used by anything as a result of the taller screen, really. So most of that height is probably going to extra battery. That would net a much bigger battery if they did not make it thinner. But if they do, then they're just taking away that benefit. And I'm going to have finally break down and buy a battery case, because I can't deal with running out of battery at 5 PM anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
.
PS: I'm most concerned with how Apple will do LTE operating bands for the rest of the world. It's one thing to focus on the US for the iPad but a smartphone is different. While LTE uses the same baseband they do need different HW for different markets (read: countries) for the operating bands. Maybe Qualcomm was able to make them a baseband that allowed for a half-dozen or more operating bands but I doubt it. I'm thinking we'll see LTE iPhones that are now regionalized because of the LTE bands.
This is concern for me too. Its possible the Qualcomm new chip will have more support indeed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
1) The battery life always either stays the same or increases substantially between models.
2) The current battery life is the best in the business.
CLAIMED battery life either stays the same or increases. Actual battery life? Mine goes down every year. I've had every new phone, each one for no more than a month after the next came out.
Pales in comparison to the Razr Maxx. Give me an iPhone Maxx. I'll pay an extra $100 for a battery with twice the capacity, which should only make the phone a tiny bit thicker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
I doubt that they see it as a real possibility.
the iphone is a victim of its sucess. what does this mean? samsung (for example) can take the risk and put the latest and greatest on their new phone (the note) because it will "only" sell a few million during the first half of the year. However apple needs something that is tested until saturation point and 100pc dominated tech because they will sell it in the 7digit figure since month one. they cannot risk that much on the pure hardware side. to be innovative while riding on the 2007 sucess they need to "create" features like siri until they think that they gained enough with it and are ready to destroy and recreate the mobile arena again and that's when your theory makes sense. maybe when they reach 300billion revenue per year, 2013
Sounds like Apple has a problem Microsoft is very familiar with.
The ability to be disruptive to your own product line is what has made Apple's computers and OSes so good over the years as compared to MS dragging along DOS bloat. Sounds like you think this is reversed in phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
1) The battery life always either stays the same or increases substantially between models.
2) The current battery life is the best in the business.
The 4s is far from being the best in the business. The 4s batterie life is pretty horrible actually. The ipad3 battery life is also worst than the ipad2
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard
Not really. I just reckon how it will look in comparison with my current iPhone 4S. It'll look way too tall and narrow. In one word - UGLY.
You will get used to it. My guess, if the iP4 had the rumored specifications of the new iPhone and they would say it's going to be shorter in the next iteration, your comment would be:
It'll look way too small and fat. In one word - UGLY
Corning has a very high estimation of themselves based on this video.
Nevertheless, makes me want to run out and buy a lot of Corning stock.
However, I do love a phone that has no place to hold the electronics to run it, or an antenna, much less a battery to support such powerful graphics!!
I think there is a more pressing issue that falls under the lesser known diseconomies of scale, even though it's not quite the right term to use. Apple is in the unique position of having a premium product that sells more than the average, inexpensive product. This is great for business but it also means they need to have the latest components in quantity on launch day that far exceeds their rivals which means they need to stock pile a lot farther in advance and at much higher quantity and yet are still likely to launch afterwards due to the volumes needed to meet demand.
This issue is one that isn't easy overcome in a finite world which is one reason I do expect them to vary the brand in ways that can use different components so they can maximize sales if component issues arise.
You're right, other smartphone aren't even close.
The only way the iPhone 4 beats the iPhone 4S is in gaming and that's because the 4S is considerably more powerful in the GPU.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
Well I HOPE it's thinner!!
Making it longer should have opened up a ton of new internal space, more than Apple could have arguably filled.
Yeah they could have just packed the remaining unused space with extra battery, but why do that as long as they can achieve an impressive battery life otherwise?
OTOH, the original iPhone was just a tad bit too thin to hold comfortably. The 3G is still the most comfortable of the iPhone designs to hold, but it is still a tad bit too thick for me. The 4 got it about right.
I have a friend with a RAZR and that phone is uncomfortably thin to hold. The fact it's also a plastic housing makes it seem incredibly fragile as well, despite being extremely long and uncomfortably wide.
The battery life is not impressive to me. It's a constant problem for me. And I've had nothing but iPhones for the last 5 years.
The iPhone 4S is the thinnest ever so I don't see your praise of it being thicker than the 1 making any sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I think there is a more pressing issue that falls under the lesser known diseconomies of scale, even though it's not quite the right term to use. Apple is in the unique position of having a premium product that sells more than the average, inexpensive product. This is great for business but it also means they need to have the latest components in quantity on launch day that far exceeds their rivals which means they need to stock pile a lot farther in advance and at much higher quantity and yet are still likely to launch afterwards due to the volumes needed to meet demand.
This issue is one that isn't easy overcome in a finite world which is one reason I do expect them to vary the brand in ways that can use different components so they can maximize sales if component issues arise.
You're right, other smartphone aren't even close.
My eyes must be failing me, sonny... can you point me to the Droid Razr Maxx on that chart please?
Quote:
Not just those wanting to make silly fashion statements. Thin makes about as much sense as diamond encrusted.
I don't know. Most phones go into pockets. A thinner phone with a bigger screen is a great improvement. The less noticeable it can be in your pocket, the better.
For people who want giant phones with more than 24 hours of battery life, there's always stuff like this: http://www.phonesuit.com ;
It's hard to see how those SIMs, which come with the device will be a supply issue, but this is a different issue than the Min-SIM to Micro-SIM non-issue with the iPhone 4 back in 2010. Back then the SIM change was still the same thickness (0.76mm) but this new Nano-SIM is (0.67mm) so even if you can trim the plastic again and the contacts line up if your old SIM is too thick to fit you are SOL.
Hmm... I wouldn't use the word juvenile but I would say that it's not very thorough. I'd love for a site to detail all the changes and then compare them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
And that's where the 32nm A5 on the ipad 2 runs the show, right? the a5x is too big and power hungry and it is too soon for the rumoured a6, so that's the only option?
I'm actually betting on an all-new A6 chip for the iPhone 5, I think it will be the main surprise Apple has for us next month.
The A5 has already been used in the iPhone 4S, and the A5X is basically the same thing with more RAM and a much faster GPU. The iPhone 5 wouldn't benefit nearly as much from doubling the graphics performance because it is rendering less than half the pixels compared to the iPad 3. Most of that power would go to waste. Of course Apple could use the dual-core GPU from the iPad 3 but clock it lower to save battery, but then you would still have the same CPU performance as the iPhone 4S. To make the thing at least a little faster they could use a 32 nm A5X and clock it a little higher, but I wouldn't expect much more than 10% to 20% performance gains.
Somehow I don't believe Apple will release a new iPhone that is only marginally faster than the 4S. The competition is already using Cortex-A15 based SoC's that are faster clock-for-clock, or quad-core SoC's that are faster in multithreaded tasks. I think Apple needs to move to a Cortex-A15 dual or quad-core produced at 32 or 28 nm, and I think they can do it, Samsung dedicated a whole fab to the production of SoC's for Apple, and they already have their 28 nm process more or less sorted out.
They must be, among other things, as I assume you're attempting to say that phone with 237% the battery capacity of the iPhone 4S somehow invalides my response to 1) the 4s battery life is far worse than the 4, 2) not even close to other phones, despite my proving otherwise.
Here are the results of the Droid RZR MAXX. It's simply amazing that a phone with 5 Whr battery could even come close, much less beat a phone with 12 Whr battery in any test. It solidifies just how good Apple is at power management -and/or- just how bad Android and/or their vendors are it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit_Coach
You will get used to it. My guess, if the iP4 had the rumored specifications of the new iPhone and they would say it's going to be shorter in the next iteration, your comment would be:
It'll look way too small and fat. In one word - UGLY
I really hope that you will be right. Fingers crossed.
As for battery life, I have had nothing but iPhones for 5 years and they all blow the pants off all of my friends Droids. The first 3 months of owning an iPhone, I have zero complaints about battery life, but the batteries quickly lose capacity and by the end of my 2 year contract I am cursing them. Putting a larger battery in here will not change is significantly.
Besides, it's all about compromise. You could put a battery in there that would allow you to surf the web, play video games, watch movies, and video conference on two bars all day. But I doubt anyone would want to carry around something that big. If Apple can achieve the same, and most likely improve the current battery life while making the case profile smaller, then why compromise the design to gain only marginal amount?
Yes "thinner" seems to sell. And my guess is the longer form factor will be an issue for some customers. I was all set to buy the new iPhone, but now I'm thinking I want to wait and see what happens. I prefer the current size, in fact I would prefer it to be a little smaller. So we'll see how well this phone sells compared to the 4S, and whether Apple maintains two form factors or returns to the smaller size, especially after components shrink allow them to reduce the size in the future.
I like the design. The focus and lighting on these photographs are better than we have seen previously.
I like the bevel on the edge. Also I think the speaker holes are cool being uneven. You know, why worry about the right and left being unequal since there is hardly any separation for stereo anyway. Just put as many holes as will fit allowing the dock to be centered. The jack on the bottom is the right design so whatever compromises need to made, that is the right solution.
My battery already lasts more than all day for me since I mostly do office work and not on the road. As long as the battery life is at least the same, it is fine. Thin...whatever. It doesn't need to be any thinner in my opinion but it doesn't matter to me if it is either.
I love this new design but that original iPhone was very comfortable to hold. Not sure I want the rest of the space filled with battery as that would be obnoxious but I'd for rounded, thicker and aluminum again.