I also think you are off on the typical Apple customer. Many hip young Apple fans live in apartments in the city. Percentage wise I would put people like you and me with larger 4 bedroom homes less than double digits in terms of all Apple aficionados.
There really is only one way that I can see them doing this, and differentiating themselves in any meaningful way: Implement Siri and FaceTime into the TV. Then it would be worth a premium price. Otherwise it is just another TV out there in a sea of other competitors.
I think you're on the right track.
I am convinced that TVs have gotten very close to the limit of what screen performance is going to do for most people. I already have a hard time telling the difference between DVD and BluRay most of the time from my normal viewing distance - and I think the same is true of lots of people.
There was a huge shift from B/W to color which caesed many people to upgrade.
There was a huge shift from VHS to DVD which caused many people to upgrade.
There was a huge shift from CRT to flat screen which caused many people to upgrade.
Even 720p to 1080p is noticeable by a lot of people (but not by all).
I just don't see screen or picture performance causing a huge push to upgrade.
Siri or FaceTime? Maybe
New UI. Maybe
Completely new capabilities. Sure
But it's going to be something on the features or UI side, not specs which drives Apple's focus in the business (if they enter it at all).
I have read studies that say the largest percentage of Mac users live in urban areas. Larger sq, ft homes are usually found in suburban and rural areas. The average age of Mac users is considerably younger than it used to be and the average detached home owner vs. renter/condo dweller is unsurprisingly older due to current economic conditions. Builders are by in large building high density housing because large single family homes are not selling well at the moment. When you put all those numbers together smaller living spaces are the norm, especially worldwide. Apple is a global company so they consider things like that. 55" TVs are on the big side. I would imagine some people are convinced they need a 55"TV only to discover it is frickin' enormous once they get it home.
Dude that is not a normal size room or house. My family room is 18 x 22 and a 42" fits just right. We sit about 8 ft from the screen. I hate huge TVs in a room that has thoughtful decor. It really ruins the style of the room. I also think you are off on the typical Apple customer. Many hip young Apple fans live in apartments in the city. Percentage wise I would put people like you and me with larger 4 bedroom homes less than double digits in terms of all Apple aficionados.
I only have 3BR, but my office or exercise rooms could be bedrooms I suppose. Why not get a flip down ceiling lift like I have if you are worried about your décor. Stays completely hidden and invisible until you are ready to watch TV then flips down with a remote. They also make lifts that rise from cabinets if you prefer that. I don't know where you live, but I would say that the vast majority of middle and upper class people lives in house with 3 or more BR which would be the majority of my town. hell, even most lower income people have 3BR or larger homes, just not as new or nice. I live in a middle class neighborhood and my house is the smallest on the street by far.
I only have 3BR, but my office or exercise rooms could be bedrooms I suppose. Why not get a flip down ceiling lift like I have if you are worried about your décor. Stays completely hidden and invisible until you are ready to watch TV then flips down with a remote. They also make lifts that rise from cabinets if you prefer that. I don't know where you live, but I would say that the vast majority of middle and upper class people lives in house with 3 or more BR which would be the majority of my town. hell, even most lower income people have 3BR or larger homes, just not as new or nice. I live in a middle class neighborhood and my house is the smallest on the street by far.
All I can say is you do not know anything about average living accommodations of people who are current Apple computer owners. NYC and SF alone probably have more affluent Apple customers than the entire rest of the US and the average home/condo size within those city limits is probably around 1200 sq ft. or less.
All I can say is you do not know anything about average living accommodations of people who are current Apple computer owners. NYC and SF alone probably have more affluent Apple customers than the entire rest of the US and the average home/condo size within those city limits is probably around 1200 sq ft. or less.
Out of curiosity I looked it up. Average home sizes I am in Atlanta (metro population of about 5.5 million) so not that far off the average for my city. But I highly doubt NYC and SF come close to being more than half of Apple's customers in the U.S.
Out of curiosity I looked it up. Average home sizes I am in Atlanta (metro population of about 5.5 million) so not that far off the average for my city. But I highly doubt NYC and SF come close to being more than half of Apple's customers in the U.S.
Yes those statistics will be hard to quantify based on the size and diversity of the many US regions. Apple is the only one who knows the actual demographics but I do ask you to consider the global averages for home size when estimating what the best size TV might be for Apple to produce. Atlanta is generally considered oversized when it comes to home square footage. I won't bother doing and research but I am still convinced that your home size and living room size is much larger than average for the US and extremely so for Europe and Japan so that is what I base my estimates on. Apple's global presence and their tendency to make only a few variations of a model to serve the entire world seem to support a smaller to medium sized TV rather than huge TV.
But don't forget with wall mounts a 65" TV really doesn't take up that much more space than a 42" since it is on the wall. I lived in Japan for many years so trust me that I know what living in a cramped space is like. But even in Japan with small living rooms even they like to get 49" to 55" sets and mount them on the walls. Having said that I would be shocked if Apple made an actual display. I see them really improving the current Apple TV and adding a lot more iOS goodness and trying to take the wind out of the sails of Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and dominate that market.
But don't forget with wall mounts a 65" TV really doesn't take up that much more space than a 42" since it is on the wall. I lived in Japan for many years so trust me that I know what living in a cramped space is like. But even in Japan with small living rooms even they like to get 49" to 55" sets and mount them on the walls. Having said that I would be shocked if Apple made an actual display. I see them really improving the current Apple TV and adding a lot more iOS goodness and trying to take the wind out of the sails of Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and dominate that market.
think that is a decision for Apple marketing and I don;t suppose to out guess them since they seem to have their finger on the world pulse of consumer tech.
as I said previously, I'll be a possible Apple TV buyer a year or two from now at the earliest.
"…more of a platform company that consumers find increasingly more difficult tofind a reason to leave."
I think this is more what everyone's experiencing, don't you?
That sums it up pretty well.
And it isn't like I'm struggling, weighing lots of pros and cons, making tons of compromises to remain where I am… In fact, at present I have not a SINGLE reason to even consider changing "platforms"…
Yes, that does make it pretty darned difficult to leave…
{Citation needed, but can't be provided, as Apple doesn't make TVs.}
Which explains the $499 Apple TV box right now, doesn't it?
Made it more accurate for you. ????
Hehe.... even then it's not like they're running on incredible margins. They're simply not running each other into the ground. They really are at trash level pricing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Because we expect Apple to do certain things to/with ____ to redefine its position, purpose and use in the industry.
For instance, mobile industry before iPhone, vs. mobile industry after iPhone. Very, very few people saw THAT kind of sea-change coming. But now, in retrospect, it seems hardly surprising.
You would have seen new things come out of the pipeline either way. You're really just so far off the majority of the time. What you should take note of is that Apple is really quite nimble for a company of their size, and they're very shrewd in their purchases. They've purchased a lot of very cool smaller companies. While I would've preferred to see these companies continue on as they were before as third parties, Apple has managed to implement quite a few things really well. Note some of HP's botched investments where they got rid of everyone who actually understood WebOS. While much of what they let out is still corporate speak, they've made adjustments to their strategies rather quickly at times, and the iphone leapfrogged the others in some ways. Even when the first one was way behind in features and application development, it was still incredibly popular. Your biggest mistake is interpreting what was on the market as the prime example of what would be seen two or three years later without it. Larger displays and touch screens would have been tested anyway. Pricing was trending downward. A few years before that the cost of color lcd displays was still remarkably high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
But don't forget with wall mounts a 65" TV really doesn't take up that much more space than a 42" since it is on the wall. I lived in Japan for many years so trust me that I know what living in a cramped space is like. But even in Japan with small living rooms even they like to get 49" to 55" sets and mount them on the walls. Having said that I would be shocked if Apple made an actual display. I see them really improving the current Apple TV and adding a lot more iOS goodness and trying to take the wind out of the sails of Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and dominate that market.
I've expected them to do something with it for a long time. It might be an issue of how long before the lighter hardware options built into the Apple TV can really power a full blown IOS system with acceptable performance. Other factors could be involved too.
I assume the biggest issue for everyone will be price so just put it into perspective with what apple already has out. Their LED display and 27 inch imac is the only thing apple has that at all resembles the capabilities of a T.V ( Unlike the 21.5 inch which doesn't really have any of the input options the display or 27 inch has ) and at 27 inches the price is 1,000/1,700 respectively, pretty much. So with that said what most people have said are right, if apple enters the t.v market it won't be to give you a t.v for less than 1 thousand, ( and do us all a favour and not try to promote apple tv as a tv because it is no more a tv than my blu ray player is) but it will probably be no less awesome than we expect to be. When apple enters a market they enter not just to survive in it but to be the leaders of it so expect to expand your apple eco system in a huge way. That is, if you're in the market for a TV over a grand at all.
Comments
Originally Posted by mstone
I also think you are off on the typical Apple customer. Many hip young Apple fans live in apartments in the city. Percentage wise I would put people like you and me with larger 4 bedroom homes less than double digits in terms of all Apple aficionados.
I seriously, seriously doubt that.
I think you're on the right track.
I am convinced that TVs have gotten very close to the limit of what screen performance is going to do for most people. I already have a hard time telling the difference between DVD and BluRay most of the time from my normal viewing distance - and I think the same is true of lots of people.
There was a huge shift from B/W to color which caesed many people to upgrade.
There was a huge shift from VHS to DVD which caused many people to upgrade.
There was a huge shift from CRT to flat screen which caused many people to upgrade.
Even 720p to 1080p is noticeable by a lot of people (but not by all).
I just don't see screen or picture performance causing a huge push to upgrade.
Siri or FaceTime? Maybe
New UI. Maybe
Completely new capabilities. Sure
But it's going to be something on the features or UI side, not specs which drives Apple's focus in the business (if they enter it at all).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I seriously, seriously doubt that.
I have read studies that say the largest percentage of Mac users live in urban areas. Larger sq, ft homes are usually found in suburban and rural areas. The average age of Mac users is considerably younger than it used to be and the average detached home owner vs. renter/condo dweller is unsurprisingly older due to current economic conditions. Builders are by in large building high density housing because large single family homes are not selling well at the moment. When you put all those numbers together smaller living spaces are the norm, especially worldwide. Apple is a global company so they consider things like that. 55" TVs are on the big side. I would imagine some people are convinced they need a 55"TV only to discover it is frickin' enormous once they get it home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Dude that is not a normal size room or house. My family room is 18 x 22 and a 42" fits just right. We sit about 8 ft from the screen. I hate huge TVs in a room that has thoughtful decor. It really ruins the style of the room. I also think you are off on the typical Apple customer. Many hip young Apple fans live in apartments in the city. Percentage wise I would put people like you and me with larger 4 bedroom homes less than double digits in terms of all Apple aficionados.
I only have 3BR, but my office or exercise rooms could be bedrooms I suppose. Why not get a flip down ceiling lift like I have if you are worried about your décor. Stays completely hidden and invisible until you are ready to watch TV then flips down with a remote. They also make lifts that rise from cabinets if you prefer that. I don't know where you live, but I would say that the vast majority of middle and upper class people lives in house with 3 or more BR which would be the majority of my town. hell, even most lower income people have 3BR or larger homes, just not as new or nice. I live in a middle class neighborhood and my house is the smallest on the street by far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
I only have 3BR, but my office or exercise rooms could be bedrooms I suppose. Why not get a flip down ceiling lift like I have if you are worried about your décor. Stays completely hidden and invisible until you are ready to watch TV then flips down with a remote. They also make lifts that rise from cabinets if you prefer that. I don't know where you live, but I would say that the vast majority of middle and upper class people lives in house with 3 or more BR which would be the majority of my town. hell, even most lower income people have 3BR or larger homes, just not as new or nice. I live in a middle class neighborhood and my house is the smallest on the street by far.
All I can say is you do not know anything about average living accommodations of people who are current Apple computer owners. NYC and SF alone probably have more affluent Apple customers than the entire rest of the US and the average home/condo size within those city limits is probably around 1200 sq ft. or less.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
All I can say is you do not know anything about average living accommodations of people who are current Apple computer owners. NYC and SF alone probably have more affluent Apple customers than the entire rest of the US and the average home/condo size within those city limits is probably around 1200 sq ft. or less.
Out of curiosity I looked it up. Average home sizes I am in Atlanta (metro population of about 5.5 million) so not that far off the average for my city. But I highly doubt NYC and SF come close to being more than half of Apple's customers in the U.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
Out of curiosity I looked it up. Average home sizes I am in Atlanta (metro population of about 5.5 million) so not that far off the average for my city. But I highly doubt NYC and SF come close to being more than half of Apple's customers in the U.S.
Yes those statistics will be hard to quantify based on the size and diversity of the many US regions. Apple is the only one who knows the actual demographics but I do ask you to consider the global averages for home size when estimating what the best size TV might be for Apple to produce. Atlanta is generally considered oversized when it comes to home square footage. I won't bother doing and research but I am still convinced that your home size and living room size is much larger than average for the US and extremely so for Europe and Japan so that is what I base my estimates on. Apple's global presence and their tendency to make only a few variations of a model to serve the entire world seem to support a smaller to medium sized TV rather than huge TV.
But don't forget with wall mounts a 65" TV really doesn't take up that much more space than a 42" since it is on the wall. I lived in Japan for many years so trust me that I know what living in a cramped space is like. But even in Japan with small living rooms even they like to get 49" to 55" sets and mount them on the walls. Having said that I would be shocked if Apple made an actual display. I see them really improving the current Apple TV and adding a lot more iOS goodness and trying to take the wind out of the sails of Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and dominate that market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
But don't forget with wall mounts a 65" TV really doesn't take up that much more space than a 42" since it is on the wall. I lived in Japan for many years so trust me that I know what living in a cramped space is like. But even in Japan with small living rooms even they like to get 49" to 55" sets and mount them on the walls. Having said that I would be shocked if Apple made an actual display. I see them really improving the current Apple TV and adding a lot more iOS goodness and trying to take the wind out of the sails of Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and dominate that market.
think that is a decision for Apple marketing and I don;t suppose to out guess them since they seem to have their finger on the world pulse of consumer tech.
as I said previously, I'll be a possible Apple TV buyer a year or two from now at the earliest.
good discussing it with you, good night.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Originally Posted by tribalogical
"…more of a platform company that consumers find increasingly more difficult to find a reason to leave."
I think this is more what everyone's experiencing, don't you?
That sums it up pretty well.
And it isn't like I'm struggling, weighing lots of pros and cons, making tons of compromises to remain where I am… In fact, at present I have not a SINGLE reason to even consider changing "platforms"…
Yes, that does make it pretty darned difficult to leave…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
{Citation needed, but can't be provided, as Apple doesn't make TVs.}
Which explains the $499 Apple TV box right now, doesn't it?
Made it more accurate for you. ????
Hehe.... even then it's not like they're running on incredible margins. They're simply not running each other into the ground. They really are at trash level pricing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Because we expect Apple to do certain things to/with ____ to redefine its position, purpose and use in the industry.
For instance, mobile industry before iPhone, vs. mobile industry after iPhone. Very, very few people saw THAT kind of sea-change coming. But now, in retrospect, it seems hardly surprising.
You would have seen new things come out of the pipeline either way. You're really just so far off the majority of the time. What you should take note of is that Apple is really quite nimble for a company of their size, and they're very shrewd in their purchases. They've purchased a lot of very cool smaller companies. While I would've preferred to see these companies continue on as they were before as third parties, Apple has managed to implement quite a few things really well. Note some of HP's botched investments where they got rid of everyone who actually understood WebOS. While much of what they let out is still corporate speak, they've made adjustments to their strategies rather quickly at times, and the iphone leapfrogged the others in some ways. Even when the first one was way behind in features and application development, it was still incredibly popular. Your biggest mistake is interpreting what was on the market as the prime example of what would be seen two or three years later without it. Larger displays and touch screens would have been tested anyway. Pricing was trending downward. A few years before that the cost of color lcd displays was still remarkably high.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac
But don't forget with wall mounts a 65" TV really doesn't take up that much more space than a 42" since it is on the wall. I lived in Japan for many years so trust me that I know what living in a cramped space is like. But even in Japan with small living rooms even they like to get 49" to 55" sets and mount them on the walls. Having said that I would be shocked if Apple made an actual display. I see them really improving the current Apple TV and adding a lot more iOS goodness and trying to take the wind out of the sails of Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony and dominate that market.
I've expected them to do something with it for a long time. It might be an issue of how long before the lighter hardware options built into the Apple TV can really power a full blown IOS system with acceptable performance. Other factors could be involved too.
I assume the biggest issue for everyone will be price so just put it into perspective with what apple already has out. Their LED display and 27 inch imac is the only thing apple has that at all resembles the capabilities of a T.V ( Unlike the 21.5 inch which doesn't really have any of the input options the display or 27 inch has