Would a micro or mini USB been so hard? Why do we need yet ANOTHER non standard data connector that does exactly what all the other STANDARD connectors do?
Because Dock Connector 2 will do more than gimped MicroUSB ever could, probably.
Originally Posted by Mac_128
This can't be the final design. Doubt this is real. Apple would never create an insertable tab connector like that. There's nothing elegant about it. Unless this is a post Steve decision. Way too easy to break off. Now perhaps if this were intended to be housed inside some kind of shell al la USB, et al ... But take a look at any Apple product, aside from standard audio connectors there is nothing like this ... This has PC written all over it ...
"Apple would never make a phone that looks like that!" "Apple would never make a tablet without cameras!" "Apple would never discontinue the 17" MacBook Pro!"
Do you think the Dock Connector is easy to break off? How does Dock Connector 2 differ from that? I think we ought to cut the doom and gloom until several months after the device is released so that all the people that don't know how to take care of their possessions can get their plug breaking in early and out of their system if the plug is actually going to be so flimsy as to break.
Magsafe is great when attached to something heavy, like a notebook. But connected to a phone it's pointless, one trip on the cord and it's coming off the table anyway.
I think the people that really want magsafe on the iPhone are those that don't really appreciate the reasons behind the magsafe in the first place. They basically just like the feel of it and the easy way it connects.
The big hint of course is that it's called "magsafe" and not "magsmooth" or "mageasy"
Do you think the Dock Connector is easy to break off? How does Dock Connector 2 differ from that?.
Seriously? The dock connector is very robust. It's a structurally engineered ridgid metal enclosure, the pins are inside. It slips pretty tightly into a port with guides to align the tab that inserts, fairly shallowly I might add, into the slot.
This has been an Intuitive design pattern all the way back to the Apple II.
Ever notice how PC connectors have the male pins on the device, the female on the cable, so when a cable is inevitably pulled out or the incorrect plug jammed into the port, the pins on the device are broken off requiring a major repair, instead of the apple way where the pins are broken on the cable side, requiring only a new cable?
They aren't going to change that philosophy. This is not about selling a product with or without cameras ...
Magsafe is great when attached to something heavy, like a notebook. But connected to a phone it's pointless, one trip on the cord and it's coming off the table anyway.
The next time my girlfriend grabs her iPhone and starts to run off while it's still plugged in, can I call you and have you explain how Magsafe would be pointless to her?
Ever notice how PC connectors have the male pins on the device, the female on the cable…
Er, no… Because that would mean PCs would have inverse plug sticking out the side of the laptop/computer… ?
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
I assume you have actual proof of this, please provide.
Apple's not going to reduce functionality from the original Dock Connector… Take away the FireWire part, sure, but not reduce any functions themselves.
Or this could be just for charging and they expect us to sync wirelessly. Who knows.
Originally Posted by macslut
The next time my girlfriend grabs her iPhone and starts to run off while it's still plugged in, can I call you and have you explain how Magsafe would be pointless to her?
I'm sorry, if you have a girlfriend that doesn't understand not to walk away with something when it's still connected to something else (I'm going to be as nice as I can be about this), I think it's time to be in the market for a new model.
So she drives away with the gas nozzle still in her car? Moves a lamp with the cord still in the wall?
Yea I don't know what the big deal is with having the plug reversible. Almost no connector has ever been reversible aside from a 1930s era lamp cord.
Well, both the Europlug and the Schuko (but not some national variations) are reversible.
Magsafe has already been mentioned, and many coax DC power connectors used for other laptops and external devices (and pre-Magsafe Apple notebooks) are too. There's also a whole host of other ring-shaped/circular connectors (BNC, RCA, TRS etc.) that obviously are to some degree direction agnostic.
Also some IEC 60320 variations are non-polarised, and can be found on many common consumer electronics like shavers, Mac Mini and the PS3 slim.
Ethernet's problems with crossover and straight cables also come to mind. If there really are 16 contacts (8 per side), I'd imagine the port would do something similar to Auto-MDIX.
Well, both the Europlug and the Schuko (but not some national variations) are reversible. Magsafe has already been mentioned. There's also a whole host of ring-shaped/circular connectors (BNC, RCA, TRS etc.) that obviously are to some degree direction agnostic.
Ethernet's problems with crossover and straight cables also come to mind. If there really is 16 contacts (8 per side), I'd imagine the port would use something similar to Auto-MDIX.
Good points. The circular plugs are usually only two elements though, aside from stereo audio jacks, but even those exhibit the problem with multi-pinned circular jack plugs. As you insert or unplug them the power for one element can touch another pin which can cause nasty problems (think unplugging a 1/4" headphone jack while powered up, ouch!).
The usual configuration of plugs that are not reversible is that there is some visual indication of how they are to be oriented. In the case of the 30 pin dock you have to look for the quite tiny icon and insert it with that pointing up in relation to the screen, subtle but easy enough for those not visually impaired. In the case of USB (as in the above picture) there are two visual indications that you just need to learn to look for.
Also thanks for the reminder about the Europlug and the Schuko although the later I believe does use an offset optional ground, but in both cases those plugs should not be considered modern or safe by any definition so they fall within my original class along with the 1930s lamp cords.
Er, no… Because that would mean PCs would have inverse plug sticking out the side of the laptop/computer… ?
Apple's not going to reduce functionality from the original Dock Connector… Take away the FireWire part, sure, but not reduce any functions themselves.
Yes, and the current dock connector is designed per Apples 30 years of design philosophy, this new one is not ...
So one thing I wonder about: the current dock connector provides mechanical stability via width-- fully half that of the iPhone. Even then, I often feel a bit unsure of some dock connections, with a bit of lateral wiggle making it feel like it would be easy to knock things to one side or torque things a bit and do some damage.
So how secure would a much narrower dock connector be in applications like sound docks? I would hope that either the shell of the male connector is somewhat deeper, somewhat thicker, or that dock-based accessories would feature a bit more enclosure for the device itself. Obviously, all of these concerns become more critical when the inevitable iPad update follows suit, and I really have to wonder about the mechanics of the rumored old dock adapter-- seems like that would have to be a device wide enclosure, to avoid a really wobbly old dock to new dock ziggurat affair.
I would be very impressed, OTOH, if Apple actually pulled off the already discussed multiplexing scheme wherein device orientation was detected, yielding a virtual 16 pin data path that was orientation independent. In fact, eliminating having to look for the little symbol side of the connector to get the thing plugged in the right way around seems very Apple like-- the kind of thing they'd put some effort into.
The shape seems like it is rather a deep socket, relatively speaking, to be MagSafe compatible.
MagSafe doesn't make sense for a mobile device this lightweight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; } Why didn't they use MagSafe technology? That would have been awesome without having to push and pull. Just have it snap into place. If Steve were alive, that's what he would have asked the engineers to do.
That was a good joke about "if Steve were alive." (Because we all know you weren't being serious, right? Right? Oh dear.)
Perhaps I can explain why MagSafe doesn't make sense for a mobile device this lightweight. As a device becomes more lightweight, only a few ounces such as the iPhone, the magnetism must be weakened so that disconnecting the cable from the device can be done without 'dragging' the device. As the magnetism is weaked, the connection, and therefore the data signaling, is weakened. Who wants to lose a connection while doing a sync/backup?
So if the magnetism is too strong, you risk the device being inadvertantly pulled off its resting place and disconnecting at inoppertune times (saying when it's yanked off a table), and if the magnetism is too weak, you get data loss. Let's just stick to a material connection for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
This can't be the final design. Doubt this is real. Apple would never create an insertable tab connector like that. There's nothing elegant about it. Unless this is a post Steve decision. Way too easy to break off. Now perhaps if this were intended to be housed inside some kind of shell al la USB, et al ... But take a look at any Apple product, aside from standard audio connectors there is nothing like this ... This has PC written all over it ...
Huh?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Yeah, I'm surprised at how deep the thing is. It looks either as deep, or maybe slightly deeper, than the current 30 pin.
Considering how shallow the current dock connector is, it's not surprising at all to me. If these photos are accurate, it seems like the new connector will only be half as deep as a standard USB connector. Apple would want to have as shallaw and narrow a connector as possible as to increase internal volume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen
Don't ask. Don't tell?
Don't worry, Apple will repeal that 'law' on Sept 12. All will be told for better or worse.
Comments
Originally Posted by UrbanVoyeur
Would a micro or mini USB been so hard? Why do we need yet ANOTHER non standard data connector that does exactly what all the other STANDARD connectors do?
Because Dock Connector 2 will do more than gimped MicroUSB ever could, probably.
Originally Posted by Mac_128
This can't be the final design. Doubt this is real. Apple would never create an insertable tab connector like that. There's nothing elegant about it. Unless this is a post Steve decision. Way too easy to break off. Now perhaps if this were intended to be housed inside some kind of shell al la USB, et al ... But take a look at any Apple product, aside from standard audio connectors there is nothing like this ... This has PC written all over it ...
"Apple would never make a phone that looks like that!" "Apple would never make a tablet without cameras!" "Apple would never discontinue the 17" MacBook Pro!"
Do you think the Dock Connector is easy to break off? How does Dock Connector 2 differ from that? I think we ought to cut the doom and gloom until several months after the device is released so that all the people that don't know how to take care of their possessions can get their plug breaking in early and out of their system if the plug is actually going to be so flimsy as to break.
As I think someone else stated, the ring around the connector is the 9th pin. IOS6 references to 9 pins are correct.
Yes, I think it would be so hard. Mini and micro usb is not very good for accessories that function as docks for the phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
The shape seems like it is rather a deep socket, relatively speaking, to be MagSafe compatible.
Yeah, I'm surprised at how deep the thing is. It looks either as deep, or maybe slightly deeper, than the current 30 pin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64
Clearly there will be a Male connector and a Female socket - as to their "orientation" perhaps that is best left unasked.
Don't ask. Don't tell?
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
Magsafe is great when attached to something heavy, like a notebook. But connected to a phone it's pointless, one trip on the cord and it's coming off the table anyway.
I think the people that really want magsafe on the iPhone are those that don't really appreciate the reasons behind the magsafe in the first place. They basically just like the feel of it and the easy way it connects.
The big hint of course is that it's called "magsafe" and not "magsmooth" or "mageasy"
This has been an Intuitive design pattern all the way back to the Apple II.
Ever notice how PC connectors have the male pins on the device, the female on the cable, so when a cable is inevitably pulled out or the incorrect plug jammed into the port, the pins on the device are broken off requiring a major repair, instead of the apple way where the pins are broken on the cable side, requiring only a new cable?
They aren't going to change that philosophy. This is not about selling a product with or without cameras ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
The big hint of course is that it's called "magsafe" and not "magsmooth" or "mageasy"
Those are the Samsung copycat trademarks
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Because Dock Connector 2 will do more than gimped MicroUSB ever could, probably.
I assume you have actual proof of this, please provide. Also what's something that this 9-pin connector will do that a micro port can't?
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
Magsafe is great when attached to something heavy, like a notebook. But connected to a phone it's pointless, one trip on the cord and it's coming off the table anyway.
The next time my girlfriend grabs her iPhone and starts to run off while it's still plugged in, can I call you and have you explain how Magsafe would be pointless to her?
I am very glad they didn't use Micro USB because I HATE it. It always breaks for me no matter how careful I am with it.
The connector swivels? That seems a bit gimmicky for Apple.
Originally Posted by Mac_128
Seriously? The dock connector is very robust.
Exactly! That's what I'm saying.
Ever notice how PC connectors have the male pins on the device, the female on the cable…
Er, no… Because that would mean PCs would have inverse plug sticking out the side of the laptop/computer… ?
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
I assume you have actual proof of this, please provide.
Apple's not going to reduce functionality from the original Dock Connector… Take away the FireWire part, sure, but not reduce any functions themselves.
Or this could be just for charging and they expect us to sync wirelessly. Who knows.
Originally Posted by macslut
The next time my girlfriend grabs her iPhone and starts to run off while it's still plugged in, can I call you and have you explain how Magsafe would be pointless to her?
I'm sorry, if you have a girlfriend that doesn't understand not to walk away with something when it's still connected to something else (I'm going to be as nice as I can be about this), I think it's time to be in the market for a new model.
So she drives away with the gas nozzle still in her car? Moves a lamp with the cord still in the wall?
Well, both the Europlug and the Schuko (but not some national variations) are reversible.
Magsafe has already been mentioned, and many coax DC power connectors used for other laptops and external devices (and pre-Magsafe Apple notebooks) are too. There's also a whole host of other ring-shaped/circular connectors (BNC, RCA, TRS etc.) that obviously are to some degree direction agnostic.
Also some IEC 60320 variations are non-polarised, and can be found on many common consumer electronics like shavers, Mac Mini and the PS3 slim.
Ethernet's problems with crossover and straight cables also come to mind. If there really are 16 contacts (8 per side), I'd imagine the port would do something similar to Auto-MDIX.
Can you say: "liquid metal" really fast 3 times? I thought you could!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandros
Well, both the Europlug and the Schuko (but not some national variations) are reversible. Magsafe has already been mentioned. There's also a whole host of ring-shaped/circular connectors (BNC, RCA, TRS etc.) that obviously are to some degree direction agnostic.
Ethernet's problems with crossover and straight cables also come to mind. If there really is 16 contacts (8 per side), I'd imagine the port would use something similar to Auto-MDIX.
Good points. The circular plugs are usually only two elements though, aside from stereo audio jacks, but even those exhibit the problem with multi-pinned circular jack plugs. As you insert or unplug them the power for one element can touch another pin which can cause nasty problems (think unplugging a 1/4" headphone jack while powered up, ouch!).
The usual configuration of plugs that are not reversible is that there is some visual indication of how they are to be oriented. In the case of the 30 pin dock you have to look for the quite tiny icon and insert it with that pointing up in relation to the screen, subtle but easy enough for those not visually impaired. In the case of USB (as in the above picture) there are two visual indications that you just need to learn to look for.
Also thanks for the reminder about the Europlug and the Schuko although the later I believe does use an offset optional ground, but in both cases those plugs should not be considered modern or safe by any definition so they fall within my original class along with the 1930s lamp cords.
Are you familiar with legacy PC ports?
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/PC+input/output
And finally ... "Apple would never ... " What!?
So one thing I wonder about: the current dock connector provides mechanical stability via width-- fully half that of the iPhone. Even then, I often feel a bit unsure of some dock connections, with a bit of lateral wiggle making it feel like it would be easy to knock things to one side or torque things a bit and do some damage.
So how secure would a much narrower dock connector be in applications like sound docks? I would hope that either the shell of the male connector is somewhat deeper, somewhat thicker, or that dock-based accessories would feature a bit more enclosure for the device itself. Obviously, all of these concerns become more critical when the inevitable iPad update follows suit, and I really have to wonder about the mechanics of the rumored old dock adapter-- seems like that would have to be a device wide enclosure, to avoid a really wobbly old dock to new dock ziggurat affair.
I would be very impressed, OTOH, if Apple actually pulled off the already discussed multiplexing scheme wherein device orientation was detected, yielding a virtual 16 pin data path that was orientation independent. In fact, eliminating having to look for the little symbol side of the connector to get the thing plugged in the right way around seems very Apple like-- the kind of thing they'd put some effort into.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
The shape seems like it is rather a deep socket, relatively speaking, to be MagSafe compatible.
MagSafe doesn't make sense for a mobile device this lightweight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Why didn't they use MagSafe technology? That would have been awesome without having to push and pull. Just have it snap into place. If Steve were alive, that's what he would have asked the engineers to do.
That was a good joke about "if Steve were alive." (Because we all know you weren't being serious, right? Right? Oh dear.)
Perhaps I can explain why MagSafe doesn't make sense for a mobile device this lightweight. As a device becomes more lightweight, only a few ounces such as the iPhone, the magnetism must be weakened so that disconnecting the cable from the device can be done without 'dragging' the device. As the magnetism is weaked, the connection, and therefore the data signaling, is weakened. Who wants to lose a connection while doing a sync/backup?
So if the magnetism is too strong, you risk the device being inadvertantly pulled off its resting place and disconnecting at inoppertune times (saying when it's yanked off a table), and if the magnetism is too weak, you get data loss. Let's just stick to a material connection for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
This can't be the final design. Doubt this is real. Apple would never create an insertable tab connector like that. There's nothing elegant about it. Unless this is a post Steve decision. Way too easy to break off. Now perhaps if this were intended to be housed inside some kind of shell al la USB, et al ... But take a look at any Apple product, aside from standard audio connectors there is nothing like this ... This has PC written all over it ...
Huh?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Yeah, I'm surprised at how deep the thing is. It looks either as deep, or maybe slightly deeper, than the current 30 pin.
Considering how shallow the current dock connector is, it's not surprising at all to me. If these photos are accurate, it seems like the new connector will only be half as deep as a standard USB connector. Apple would want to have as shallaw and narrow a connector as possible as to increase internal volume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleGreen
Don't ask. Don't tell?
Don't worry, Apple will repeal that 'law' on Sept 12. All will be told for better or worse.