The USA is still in the top 30 of developed countries (December 2010)
14th in Reading, 25th in Maths, 17th in Science.
Of the top ranking countries, only two are Asian, believe it or not. Finland, Canada, New Zealand, South Korea and Japan (not in that order, though Finland is #1 in the world).
This has been going on since Japan in the 1960's, Asian companies making replicas of European and American products. Hopefully the courts will punish Samsung so severely no one will do it again. Yes Kia that would mean you need to hire a designer too! Although there is an irony that Kia is ripping off Toyota who ripped off Mercedes and BMW. It's not as if Asians aren't very smart enough ... get out there and innovate for heaven's sake.
In turn, Japan in particular has since then given back to the world several icons of industrial utility and consumer entertainment - the transistor radio, the Walkman, the Ghetto Blaster, Karaoke, Manga, Robotics, Trinitron to mention a select few, so copying obviously has not been a one-way Euro-America to Asia process after all is said and done.
It's a pity that most of the other Asian industrial powerhouses do not emulate this praiseworthy practice of looking into their own culture for innovation, preferring to slavishly replicate the creative efforts of others instead. The world is being deprived of so much wow-factor and true variety as a result
Sony in particular has been one of the most ripped-off targets of these knock-off-Nigel industries, and I marvel at their enigmatic silence in the face of the blatant copying and price-undercutting that Samsung in particular has subjected Sony to over the last few decades, to the former's great loss and the latter's huge advantage.
Perhaps Sony and Japan know something that they don't - that what goes around comes around (i.e. Americans are not as tolerant of blatant cloning and will take remedial measures) , and that while current form is temporary, true class endures permanently...
Apple expert shines light on Samsung sales in U.S.
Dan Levine and Edwin ChanReuters
1:37 a.m. CDT, August 14, 2012
SAN JOSE (Reuters) - Apple Inc is claiming that more than a quarter of Samsung Electronics' $30.4 billion in U.S. smartphone and tablet sales result from copying of the iPhone and iPad or infringe on other patents, a damages expert for the U.S. company said on Monday.
The Silicon Valley company is demanding up to $2.75 billion of damages from its Korean rival, which includes profits lost to infringing Samsung gadgets. However, Samsung attorneys argued that Apple's evidence was not sufficient to recoup such an award.
The Korean company sold more than 87 million mobile devices from mid-2010 to March 2012, according to documents displayed before the jury.
Accountant Terry Musika, citing Samsung records and testifying as an Apple expert witness, estimated that $8.16 billion in revenue, or 22.7 million of those total unit sales over that two-year period, came from products that infringed Apple patents, such as the first Galaxy S smartphone in July 2010.
Samsung typically does not reveal its sales in the United States.
Samsung earned roughly a 35.5 percent gross profit margin on that revenue, between June 2010 through March 2012, Musika said.
"It's not me sitting at a desk with a calculator," Musika, a former KPMG and PriceWaterhouseCoopers accounting partner, told the court.
"There are literally hundreds of millions of calculations," he said, adding that it took more than $1.75 million to employ a team of 20 programmers, accountants, statisticians and economists to work out damages over a plethora of gadgets.
But Samsung argued that Apple, which was struggling to keep up with demand for the iPhone 4 from July to October of 2010, did not have the capacity to have delivered on those additional sales.
"Apple couldn't service its own customers with the iPhone 4, but it could service customers it didn't have?" Samsung attorney Bill Price asked Musika.
Price also argued that the damages should vary depending on whether the Samsung products at issue in the lawsuit infringed on just one or all of Apple's patents.
So after they told them to go out there and learn from iphone what happened when they brought the designs and products and packaging and icons and featues back ,did they then forget what they told them to do...if thats the best defend then congrates to apple for a nice little win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Not little. This has to be a big fracking win, so big Samsung bleed all over the floor. Then it's Googles turn. Frankly, IMHO ripping off iOS is far worse than the ripping off of the look and feel of the hardware.
Apple-haters need to shed their philistine hard line and candidly put themselves in Apple's place, if only for the sake of objectivity.
Here are two of the company's erstwhile closest allies and collaborators, one in software (their CEO at a critical time sat on Apple's board of directors) and the other in hardware, both privy to a vast amount of insider design knowledge by virtue of partnership... oh, the treachery, and the lying. Apple's indignation, paranoia and secrecy is easily understandable under the circumstances
In turn, Japan in particular has since then given back to the world several icons of industrial utility and consumer entertainment - the transistor radio, the Walkman, the Ghetto Blaster, Karaoke, Manga, Robotics, Trinitron to mention a select few, so copying obviously has not been a one-way Euro-America to Asia process after all is said and done.
It's a pity that most of the other Asian industrial powerhouses do not emulate this praiseworthy practice of looking into their own culture for innovation, preferring to slavishly replicate the creative efforts of others instead. The world is being deprived of so much wow-factor and true variety as a result
Sony in particular has been one of the most ripped-off targets of these knock-off-Nigel industries, and I marvel at their enigmatic silence in the face of the blatant copying and price-undercutting that Samsung in particular has subjected Sony to over the last few decades, to the former's great loss and the latter's huge advantage.
Perhaps Sony and Japan know something that they don't - that what goes around comes around (i.e. Americans are not as tolerant of blatant cloning and will take remedial measures) , and that while current form is temporary, true class endures permanently...
I agree with you, indeed Sony in particular have been a powerhouse of excellent innovation.
The USA is still in the top 30 of developed countries (December 2010)
14th in Reading, 25th in Maths, 17th in Science.
Of the top ranking countries, only two are Asian, believe it or not. Finland, Canada, New Zealand, South Korea and Japan (not in that order, though Finland is #1 in the world).
It would be an admirable goal for the USA to aim to be in the top few especially in science and math.
That was a lazy response that answered none of my questions, but it confirmed that your racist remarks were actually sincere. How sad.
The problem with reading a specific post as you did which was part of a long thread, is it is then often taken out of context and easily misconstrued. I agreed with you that taken on its face value, absent the context of the back and forth banter preceding that specific post, it came across badly. To try to answer your specific points is to only bolster the misconception. I am not racist however, I spoke clumsily in trying to state Asians (yes I mean those involved in high tech from those countries that are involved in high tech), are very clever - witness Sony - and blatant copying is not acceptable nor necessary from the likes of Samsung.
I have dual nationality and I have lived and worked in five different countries (for many years in each) and one of my degrees is in educational psychology although I have been mostly involved in the tech sector.
I try to add something to AI and try never to indulge in personal attacks.
It's easy to assume that Samsung made an intentional decision to pursue copying the market leader instead of striving to create great products based on their own unique point of view and capabilities. Some reflection on East Asian (Taiwan, China, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea) culture and mindset might convince you that it is impossible for Samsung or any East Asian company to innovate the way Western companies do, with Apple being the most prominent example.
Taiwanese American filmmaker Winston Wu has blogged at some length about what he calls the "Confucian East Asian characteristics of repression, inhibition, stiffness, strictness, conservativism, solemness, workaholic lifestyle, narrow minded, rigid, insular world view, and judgmental black/white thinking." happierabroad.com/Asian_Mentality.htm
Extrapolating a bit from Wu, Samsung employees CAN'T create truly innovative products because everything in their culture says DON'T step out of line, daydream, indulge your imagination or take risks that might jeopardize your social or professional standing. Since Samsung has ambitions of global market leadership and continued growth, the only strategy open to them is copying the market successes of companies like Apple that bet heavily on truly innovative products.
Given the highly centralized organization of Korean chaebols like Samsung, it's likely that marching (copying) orders came from the very top and everyone all down the line is just doing their best to fit in. Even though the Apple people taking the stand in this trial are the very individuals who drove the innovations, it's unlikely that the jury will hear from the people or person at Samsung who said "copy the entire iPhone kit" and "we're not paying for any licenses from Apple".
"I am not saying to make what is exactly identical to the iPhone, but I am saying to learn the wisdom of the iPhone, and recognize the standard of the industry which was set by them already," Lee said.
Doesn't matter what Mr. Lee told his team or what personal wisdom he and his team gained from this whole copying affair. It doesn't even matter whether Samsung intentionally copied iPhone's hardware and software designs or inadvertently ended up with a near-exact copy of both.
What does matter is whether or not Samsung's designs infringe on Apple's patented designs.
Of course, intentional copying would bring a bigger penalty. But in the long run, Apple benefits more by protecting their designs.
The problem with reading a specific post as you did which was part of a long thread, is it is then often taken out of context and easily misconstrued. I agreed with you that taken on its face value, absent the context of the back and forth banter preceding that specific post, it came across badly. To try to answer your specific points is to only bolster the misconception. I am not racist however, I spoke clumsily in trying to state Asians (yes I mean those involved in high tech from those countries that are involved in high tech), are very clever - witness Sony - and blatant copying is not acceptable nor necessary from the likes of Samsung.
Thanks for your admonishment. And to my defense, I don't like to dilute important messages/discussions with complaints of political correctness (or attempt to play race cards). I just thought it would be worth my interjection in this case.
FWIW, I agree with you that specific cultures tend to exhibit specific philosophies & that blatant copying from Samsung is not acceptable.
Comments
Samscum is a shameless copycat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Nay, inexcusable.
The USA is still in the top 30 of developed countries (December 2010)
14th in Reading, 25th in Maths, 17th in Science.
Of the top ranking countries, only two are Asian, believe it or not. Finland, Canada, New Zealand, South Korea and Japan (not in that order, though Finland is #1 in the world).
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
This has been going on since Japan in the 1960's, Asian companies making replicas of European and American products. Hopefully the courts will punish Samsung so severely no one will do it again. Yes Kia that would mean you need to hire a designer too! Although there is an irony that Kia is ripping off Toyota who ripped off Mercedes and BMW. It's not as if Asians aren't very smart enough ... get out there and innovate for heaven's sake.
In turn, Japan in particular has since then given back to the world several icons of industrial utility and consumer entertainment - the transistor radio, the Walkman, the Ghetto Blaster, Karaoke, Manga, Robotics, Trinitron to mention a select few, so copying obviously has not been a one-way Euro-America to Asia process after all is said and done.
It's a pity that most of the other Asian industrial powerhouses do not emulate this praiseworthy practice of looking into their own culture for innovation, preferring to slavishly replicate the creative efforts of others instead. The world is being deprived of so much wow-factor and true variety as a result
Sony in particular has been one of the most ripped-off targets of these knock-off-Nigel industries, and I marvel at their enigmatic silence in the face of the blatant copying and price-undercutting that Samsung in particular has subjected Sony to over the last few decades, to the former's great loss and the latter's huge advantage.
Perhaps Sony and Japan know something that they don't - that what goes around comes around (i.e. Americans are not as tolerant of blatant cloning and will take remedial measures) , and that while current form is temporary, true class endures permanently...
Chicago Tribune: http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/sns-rt-us-apple-samsungbre87c0sc-20120813,0,5791363.story
Excerpt:
Apple expert shines light on Samsung sales in U.S.
Dan Levine and Edwin Chan Reuters
1:37 a.m. CDT, August 14, 2012
SAN JOSE (Reuters) - Apple Inc is claiming that more than a quarter of Samsung Electronics' $30.4 billion in U.S. smartphone and tablet sales result from copying of the iPhone and iPad or infringe on other patents, a damages expert for the U.S. company said on Monday.
The Silicon Valley company is demanding up to $2.75 billion of damages from its Korean rival, which includes profits lost to infringing Samsung gadgets. However, Samsung attorneys argued that Apple's evidence was not sufficient to recoup such an award.
The Korean company sold more than 87 million mobile devices from mid-2010 to March 2012, according to documents displayed before the jury.
Accountant Terry Musika, citing Samsung records and testifying as an Apple expert witness, estimated that $8.16 billion in revenue, or 22.7 million of those total unit sales over that two-year period, came from products that infringed Apple patents, such as the first Galaxy S smartphone in July 2010.
Samsung typically does not reveal its sales in the United States.
Samsung earned roughly a 35.5 percent gross profit margin on that revenue, between June 2010 through March 2012, Musika said.
"It's not me sitting at a desk with a calculator," Musika, a former KPMG and PriceWaterhouseCoopers accounting partner, told the court.
"There are literally hundreds of millions of calculations," he said, adding that it took more than $1.75 million to employ a team of 20 programmers, accountants, statisticians and economists to work out damages over a plethora of gadgets.
But Samsung argued that Apple, which was struggling to keep up with demand for the iPhone 4 from July to October of 2010, did not have the capacity to have delivered on those additional sales.
"Apple couldn't service its own customers with the iPhone 4, but it could service customers it didn't have?" Samsung attorney Bill Price asked Musika.
Price also argued that the damages should vary depending on whether the Samsung products at issue in the lawsuit infringed on just one or all of Apple's patents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Samsung exec told company to learn from Apple's iPhone, not copy it ... that went well didn't it?
Since that email was sent just 30 days prior to the device going on sale, his advice was way too late to change what they had already done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tcasey
So after they told them to go out there and learn from iphone what happened when they brought the designs and products and packaging and icons and featues back ,did they then forget what they told them to do...if thats the best defend then congrates to apple for a nice little win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Not little. This has to be a big fracking win, so big Samsung bleed all over the floor. Then it's Googles turn. Frankly, IMHO ripping off iOS is far worse than the ripping off of the look and feel of the hardware.
Apple-haters need to shed their philistine hard line and candidly put themselves in Apple's place, if only for the sake of objectivity.
Here are two of the company's erstwhile closest allies and collaborators, one in software (their CEO at a critical time sat on Apple's board of directors) and the other in hardware, both privy to a vast amount of insider design knowledge by virtue of partnership... oh, the treachery, and the lying. Apple's indignation, paranoia and secrecy is easily understandable under the circumstances
I agree with you, indeed Sony in particular have been a powerhouse of excellent innovation.
It would be an admirable goal for the USA to aim to be in the top few especially in science and math.
The problem with reading a specific post as you did which was part of a long thread, is it is then often taken out of context and easily misconstrued. I agreed with you that taken on its face value, absent the context of the back and forth banter preceding that specific post, it came across badly. To try to answer your specific points is to only bolster the misconception. I am not racist however, I spoke clumsily in trying to state Asians (yes I mean those involved in high tech from those countries that are involved in high tech), are very clever - witness Sony - and blatant copying is not acceptable nor necessary from the likes of Samsung.
I have dual nationality and I have lived and worked in five different countries (for many years in each) and one of my degrees is in educational psychology although I have been mostly involved in the tech sector.
I try to add something to AI and try never to indulge in personal attacks.
It's easy to assume that Samsung made an intentional decision to pursue copying the market leader instead of striving to create great products based on their own unique point of view and capabilities. Some reflection on East Asian (Taiwan, China, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea) culture and mindset might convince you that it is impossible for Samsung or any East Asian company to innovate the way Western companies do, with Apple being the most prominent example.
Taiwanese American filmmaker Winston Wu has blogged at some length about what he calls the "Confucian East Asian characteristics of repression, inhibition, stiffness, strictness, conservativism, solemness, workaholic lifestyle, narrow minded, rigid, insular world view, and judgmental black/white thinking." happierabroad.com/Asian_Mentality.htm
Extrapolating a bit from Wu, Samsung employees CAN'T create truly innovative products because everything in their culture says DON'T step out of line, daydream, indulge your imagination or take risks that might jeopardize your social or professional standing. Since Samsung has ambitions of global market leadership and continued growth, the only strategy open to them is copying the market successes of companies like Apple that bet heavily on truly innovative products.
Given the highly centralized organization of Korean chaebols like Samsung, it's likely that marching (copying) orders came from the very top and everyone all down the line is just doing their best to fit in. Even though the Apple people taking the stand in this trial are the very individuals who drove the innovations, it's unlikely that the jury will hear from the people or person at Samsung who said "copy the entire iPhone kit" and "we're not paying for any licenses from Apple".
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
"I am not saying to make what is exactly identical to the iPhone, but I am saying to learn the wisdom of the iPhone, and recognize the standard of the industry which was set by them already," Lee said.
Doesn't matter what Mr. Lee told his team or what personal wisdom he and his team gained from this whole copying affair. It doesn't even matter whether Samsung intentionally copied iPhone's hardware and software designs or inadvertently ended up with a near-exact copy of both.
What does matter is whether or not Samsung's designs infringe on Apple's patented designs.
Of course, intentional copying would bring a bigger penalty. But in the long run, Apple benefits more by protecting their designs.
This is like Stephen Colbert telling people "not" to throw printed out reports on the ice at a minor league hockey game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
The problem with reading a specific post as you did which was part of a long thread, is it is then often taken out of context and easily misconstrued. I agreed with you that taken on its face value, absent the context of the back and forth banter preceding that specific post, it came across badly. To try to answer your specific points is to only bolster the misconception. I am not racist however, I spoke clumsily in trying to state Asians (yes I mean those involved in high tech from those countries that are involved in high tech), are very clever - witness Sony - and blatant copying is not acceptable nor necessary from the likes of Samsung.
Thanks for your admonishment. And to my defense, I don't like to dilute important messages/discussions with complaints of political correctness (or attempt to play race cards). I just thought it would be worth my interjection in this case.
FWIW, I agree with you that specific cultures tend to exhibit specific philosophies & that blatant copying from Samsung is not acceptable.