I have noticed video issues a lot lately even though I have really fast connections. It seems quite often with streaming video, it doesn't cache. It just buffers a little and starts playing, but as soon as it plays it apparently flushes the cache behind the play head. Somethings if it stalls and if you try to back up the progress bar, it will start buffering again and often never fully recovers to playing smoothly.
I remember not that long ago that video would stream, but once the file was downloaded it stayed in the cache for days so if you wanted to watch it again it started immediately and played smoothly all the way through spooling directly from the hard disk. I don't think it works like that anymore.
I don't know if it is HTML5, H.264 or perhaps a setting in Safari that is causing the frequent flakiness of web video streaming. Mostly Youtube video plays smoothly enough so it may just be video from servers that can't deliver enough throughput, but it is frustrating when you have 10 Mb (home) and 100 Mb (office) and you still get stalled or stuttering video way too often.
Indeed as we get these staggeringly high download speeds it all to often reveals the limitations of the other end. On the other hand I started watching the NBC Live Olympics on 75 Mbs download at home and went on vacation to a place with 5 Mbs and there was zero difference in the HD quality which truly shocked me.
Oh, it's more, but much of it's not mine and all that would be on discs still. All I want is for the Apple TV to support a hard drive with a standard iTunes Library file structure when just the hard drive (not iTunes the application, not a computer ON and iTunes RUNNING on it) is connected to an AirPort (it wouldn't even have to be third party router support!) on the same network.
Once that happens, I buy three Apple TVs on day one and two 4TB hard drives on day two. Rip all my family's discs, convert to HEVC files, get them looking gorgeous in iTunes with subtitles, metadata, chapters, and artwork, and then clone the first drive and plop it on the network standalone.
That's all I want, Apple. NAiTL (Network Attached iTunes Libraries).
That's kind of my set up, I have a SATA dock on FW 800 to a MBP and dozens of 1 and 2 TB bare drives with HD videos. All the videos are aliased in iTunes and available to the home network as long as the correct drive is docked. It works like a charm. ... But I hear you on the NOT tying up a Mac, that would be sweet.
Indeed as we get these staggeringly high download speeds it all to often reveals the limitations of the other end. On the other hand I started watching the NBC Live Olympics on 75 Mbs download at home and went on vacation to a place with 5 Mbs and there was zero difference in the HD quality which truly shocked me.
I haven't quite figured it out, nor have I had the time to research it but for example there are sites that if you plug in the URL of a movie or you sort through the view source to discover the actual movie src, you can download the complete movie is seconds, way faster than realtime and once you have it on your drive it plays flawlessly however trying to just let it stream as a normal person would do it stutters and drops frames. I just went to Apple and watched the main home page video and it dropped frames several times and the lip sync was off a bit at times as well. I'm on an unthrottled (no QoS) 100 Mb line right now too.
Edit: and I forgot to mention I'm on a 8 core MP with 16 gig of ram and nothing going on in the background..
All I want is for the Apple TV to support a hard drive with a standard iTunes Library file structure when just the hard drive (not iTunes the application, not a computer ON and iTunes RUNNING on it) is connected to an AirPort (it wouldn't even have to be third party router support!) on the same network.
My biggest objection is the requirement to have a computer LOGGED IN. No reason this couldn't run as a service of some sort.
I haven't quite figured it out, nor have I had the time to research it but for example there are sites that if you plugin the URL of a movie or you sort through the view source to discover the actual movie src, you can download the complete movie is seconds, way faster than realtime and once you have it on your drive it plays flawlessly however trying to just let it stream as a normal person would do it stutters and drops frames. I just went to Apple and watched the main home page video and it dropped frames several times and the lip sync was off a bit at times. I'm on an unthrottled (no QoS) 100 Mb line right now too.
In which case it sounds like you have a problem streaming your end for some reason. Can you boot to a different drive with a nice clean install and see if it streams any better on the same Mac?
Split the difference please! Videos encoded a bit smaller yet also a bit higher-quality would be great. My awful AT&T DSL is just SLIGHTLY too slow for much of the video on the web these days.
I wonder if the following might be an interim solution:
It is a little hard to follow, but it seems to say that [much of the] compression is achieved by dropping intermediate frames and replacing them with hints -- the hints are used to regenerate the missing frames at the other end. I think this patent is directed at existing hardware.
As an aside, I experimented with a similar technique using Apple's "Optical Flow" feature of FCP X.
converted a video to frames (image sequence) using QuickTime 7
dropped some of the frames -- for instance 3 or 4 out of 5
converted the resulting frames back to a video using QuickTime 7
used Optical Flow to smooth the video (generate missing frames)
This was a pretty gross experiment -- there was no analysis on which frames to drop or any hints about the missing frames... they were gone, just gone!
The resulting video was surprisingly good and it used a file that was 10%-30% of the original file size.
My biggest objection is the requirement to have a computer LOGGED IN. No reason this couldn't run as a service of some sort.
Multiple iTunes Libraries on the same machine. Apple TV couldn't parse them. Shouldn't even have to OWN a computer at all… Just hard drives on the network…
Those with newer hardware that can decode HEVC will get the smaller data download. Those with older hardware will get the larger streams. Those running
afoul of bandwidth caps will naturally be more disposed to upgrading their hardware if HEVC support was there.
Great. I can't watch any DL/streaming video at home on my iMac, iPhone or iPad.... without it stuttering and buffering! C**ks (Cox) Cable really is terrible.
Multiple iTunes Libraries on the same machine. Apple TV couldn't parse them. Shouldn't even have to OWN a computer at all… Just hard drives on the network…
We have two libraries on our Mac and the ATV finds them just fine. One for each user. The mac wakes on LAN so no problem there either. iTunes is in the login items for both users. I'm not understanding why this is a huge problem? If you're a laptop only guy and worried about battery life by enabling wake on LAN, get a crappy old Mac Mini and stick in in a dark corner with your HDs.
In which case it sounds like you have a problem streaming your end for some reason. Can you boot to a different drive with a nice clean install and see if it streams any better on the same Mac?
Like I said I haven't had time to research it but my equipment would be the last thing I would suspect since it is so high performance and exhibits no signs of bottleneck in any other task. And I see the same problem on cable at home too. It is definitely related to Safari and H.264. I routinely upload and download huge files through Safari here at the office and I show really high throughput. I'm the only computer on my network that is unthrottled so I suck all the bandwidth from everyone else if I start watching a movie. I'm getting every bit of 100 Mb/sec file transfers. I should try in Chrome to see if there is a difference.
Those with newer hardware that can decode HEVC will get the smaller data download. Those with older hardware will get the larger streams. Those running
afoul of bandwidth caps will naturally be more disposed to upgrading their hardware if HEVC support was there.
I'm excited either way.
Thanks for the link... though I'm disappointed that it appears to be Android exclusive.
I am also disappointed that Apple appears to have no implementation of the new WiFi standard...
I guess I'm just spoiled because Apple usually leads the pack in introducing new technology.
We have two libraries on our Mac and the ATV finds them just fine. One for each user. The mac wakes on LAN so no problem there either. iTunes is in the login items for both users. I'm not understanding why this is a huge problem?
How does it see both libraries when only one user is logged in?
If you're a laptop only guy and worried about battery life by enabling wake on LAN, get a crappy old Mac Mini and stick in in a dark corner with your HDs.
Nope, but I shouldn't have to waste $600 on a computer I will never use for any reason just to do something my hardware is already capable of doing.
I would rather see mkv support coming to iOS before this...
mkv is only a container, usually holding mp4 video anyway. Therefore, it seems to be an unnecessary extra enclosure (hello AVCHD).
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
As an aside, I experimented with a similar technique using Apple's "Optical Flow" feature of FCP X.
converted a video to frames (image sequence) using QuickTime 7
dropped some of the frames -- for instance 3 or 4 out of 5
converted the resulting frames back to a video using QuickTime 7
used Optical Flow to smooth the video (generate missing frames)
This was a pretty gross experiment -- there was no analysis on which frames to drop or any hints about the missing frames... they were gone, just gone!
The resulting video was surprisingly good and it used a file that was 10%-30% of the original file size.
Cool research! I think Handbrake (or x264 CLI) does something similar if you crank up the B-frames, though too many breaks hardware playback on some devices.
I generally use pretty aggressive Handbrake settings, since a longer one-time encode is worth endless decoding of smaller & nicer files.
Like I said I haven't had time to research it but my equipment would be the last thing I would suspect since it is so high performance and exhibits no signs of bottleneck in any other task. And I see the same problem on cable at home too. It is definitely related to Safari and H.264. I routinely upload and download huge files through Safari here at the office and I show really high throughput. I'm the only computer on my network that is unthrottled so I suck all the bandwidth from everyone else if I start watching a movie. I'm getting every bit of 100 Mb/sec file transfers. I should try in Chrome to see if there is a difference.
You clearly don't need any advice from me but JFYI I am on vacation on a crappy Comcast connection which I rated at <5Mbs. I of course plugged an AE in to the back of the Comcast router for my own WiFi use. Running ML on a MBP i7 I just watched the 5 minute plus video on Apple web site (retina display) without a stutter or dropped frame using Safari.
I don't think you meant to say that. File sizes are determined by bitrate (multiplied by time). I think you meant to say that HEVC gives higher quality at lower bitrates.
At least Airplay supports mkv streamed flawlessly from VLC via Apple TV in Mountain Lion or AirParrot on older Macs.
Exactly. X Bits per frame times X frames determines file size. I'm sure he meant reduced bitrate requirements (Better efficiency at a given bitrate resulting in a better quality movie @ the same size), or equivalent quality at a reduced bitrate (resulting in the same quality at a smaller file size).
I've been encoding video for years starting with old VCD, SVCD, DivX, Xvid, MPEG2, and H.264.
You can easily encode good quality 720P @2000 Kbps using 2 pass. I've currently got about 2 TB of data from 500 or so BD-Rips and DVD Rips from my library. A typical 720 rip will encode at about 20-25 FPS on a quad core i7 2010 iMac. 1080P in 10-12 fps range (about twice the time it takes to watch a movie). All of these are 2-Pass encodes, with HE-AAC 5.1 Audio.
H.264 can get you up to 75% reduction in filesize due to increased bitrate efficiency on a very 'clean' low motion source. If H.265 is half again more efficient than H.264, this is great news!
Comments
Indeed as we get these staggeringly high download speeds it all to often reveals the limitations of the other end. On the other hand I started watching the NBC Live Olympics on 75 Mbs download at home and went on vacation to a place with 5 Mbs and there was zero difference in the HD quality which truly shocked me.
That's kind of my set up, I have a SATA dock on FW 800 to a MBP and dozens of 1 and 2 TB bare drives with HD videos. All the videos are aliased in iTunes and available to the home network as long as the correct drive is docked. It works like a charm. ... But I hear you on the NOT tying up a Mac, that would be sweet.
agree
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Indeed as we get these staggeringly high download speeds it all to often reveals the limitations of the other end. On the other hand I started watching the NBC Live Olympics on 75 Mbs download at home and went on vacation to a place with 5 Mbs and there was zero difference in the HD quality which truly shocked me.
I haven't quite figured it out, nor have I had the time to research it but for example there are sites that if you plug in the URL of a movie or you sort through the view source to discover the actual movie src, you can download the complete movie is seconds, way faster than realtime and once you have it on your drive it plays flawlessly however trying to just let it stream as a normal person would do it stutters and drops frames. I just went to Apple and watched the main home page video and it dropped frames several times and the lip sync was off a bit at times as well. I'm on an unthrottled (no QoS) 100 Mb line right now too.
Edit: and I forgot to mention I'm on a 8 core MP with 16 gig of ram and nothing going on in the background..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
All I want is for the Apple TV to support a hard drive with a standard iTunes Library file structure when just the hard drive (not iTunes the application, not a computer ON and iTunes RUNNING on it) is connected to an AirPort (it wouldn't even have to be third party router support!) on the same network.
My biggest objection is the requirement to have a computer LOGGED IN. No reason this couldn't run as a service of some sort.
In which case it sounds like you have a problem streaming your end for some reason. Can you boot to a different drive with a nice clean install and see if it streams any better on the same Mac?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme
Split the difference please! Videos encoded a bit smaller yet also a bit higher-quality would be great. My awful AT&T DSL is just SLIGHTLY too slow for much of the video on the web these days.
I wonder if the following might be an interim solution:
http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2012/08/new-apple-patents-relate-to-sim-cards-radio-transparent-materials-video-editing-more.html#more
Towards the end of this article there is a reference to two additional patents:
Quote:
Lastly, for those interested in patent applications relating to video coding, see patents 20120195376 and 20120195372.
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=%2220120195376%22.PGNR.&OS=DN/20120195376&RS=DN/20120195376
It is a little hard to follow, but it seems to say that [much of the] compression is achieved by dropping intermediate frames and replacing them with hints -- the hints are used to regenerate the missing frames at the other end. I think this patent is directed at existing hardware.
As an aside, I experimented with a similar technique using Apple's "Optical Flow" feature of FCP X.
converted a video to frames (image sequence) using QuickTime 7
dropped some of the frames -- for instance 3 or 4 out of 5
converted the resulting frames back to a video using QuickTime 7
used Optical Flow to smooth the video (generate missing frames)
This was a pretty gross experiment -- there was no analysis on which frames to drop or any hints about the missing frames... they were gone, just gone!
The resulting video was surprisingly good and it used a file that was 10%-30% of the original file size.
Originally Posted by John.B
My biggest objection is the requirement to have a computer LOGGED IN. No reason this couldn't run as a service of some sort.
Multiple iTunes Libraries on the same machine. Apple TV couldn't parse them. Shouldn't even have to OWN a computer at all… Just hard drives on the network…
apple will jump on it. they will come out with new equipment that supports it and send the the older devices H264 versions - simple.
Ziilabs is already working on integrating HEVC into ARM based SoC. They aren't the only ones.
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4236490/ZiiLabs-samples-stem-cell-Android-SoC
I see it playing out like this.
Those with newer hardware that can decode HEVC will get the smaller data download. Those with older hardware will get the larger streams. Those running
afoul of bandwidth caps will naturally be more disposed to upgrading their hardware if HEVC support was there.
I'm excited either way.
Great. I can't watch any DL/streaming video at home on my iMac, iPhone or iPad.... without it stuttering and buffering! C**ks (Cox) Cable really is terrible.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }null
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Multiple iTunes Libraries on the same machine. Apple TV couldn't parse them. Shouldn't even have to OWN a computer at all… Just hard drives on the network…
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We have two libraries on our Mac and the ATV finds them just fine. One for each user. The mac wakes on LAN so no problem there either. iTunes is in the login items for both users. I'm not understanding why this is a huge problem? If you're a laptop only guy and worried about battery life by enabling wake on LAN, get a crappy old Mac Mini and stick in in a dark corner with your HDs.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
In which case it sounds like you have a problem streaming your end for some reason. Can you boot to a different drive with a nice clean install and see if it streams any better on the same Mac?
Like I said I haven't had time to research it but my equipment would be the last thing I would suspect since it is so high performance and exhibits no signs of bottleneck in any other task. And I see the same problem on cable at home too. It is definitely related to Safari and H.264. I routinely upload and download huge files through Safari here at the office and I show really high throughput. I'm the only computer on my network that is unthrottled so I suck all the bandwidth from everyone else if I start watching a movie. I'm getting every bit of 100 Mb/sec file transfers. I should try in Chrome to see if there is a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison
Ziilabs is already working on integrating HEVC into ARM based SoC. They aren't the only ones.
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4236490/ZiiLabs-samples-stem-cell-Android-SoC
I see it playing out like this.
Those with newer hardware that can decode HEVC will get the smaller data download. Those with older hardware will get the larger streams. Those running
afoul of bandwidth caps will naturally be more disposed to upgrading their hardware if HEVC support was there.
I'm excited either way.
Thanks for the link... though I'm disappointed that it appears to be Android exclusive.
I am also disappointed that Apple appears to have no implementation of the new WiFi standard...
I guess I'm just spoiled because Apple usually leads the pack in introducing new technology.
Originally Posted by dbeats
We have two libraries on our Mac and the ATV finds them just fine. One for each user. The mac wakes on LAN so no problem there either. iTunes is in the login items for both users. I'm not understanding why this is a huge problem?
How does it see both libraries when only one user is logged in?
If you're a laptop only guy and worried about battery life by enabling wake on LAN, get a crappy old Mac Mini and stick in in a dark corner with your HDs.
Nope, but I shouldn't have to waste $600 on a computer I will never use for any reason just to do something my hardware is already capable of doing.
Originally Posted by mausz
I would rather see mkv support coming to iOS before this...
mkv is only a container, usually holding mp4 video anyway. Therefore, it seems to be an unnecessary extra enclosure (hello AVCHD).
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
As an aside, I experimented with a similar technique using Apple's "Optical Flow" feature of FCP X.
converted a video to frames (image sequence) using QuickTime 7
dropped some of the frames -- for instance 3 or 4 out of 5
converted the resulting frames back to a video using QuickTime 7
used Optical Flow to smooth the video (generate missing frames)
This was a pretty gross experiment -- there was no analysis on which frames to drop or any hints about the missing frames... they were gone, just gone!
The resulting video was surprisingly good and it used a file that was 10%-30% of the original file size.
Cool research! I think Handbrake (or x264 CLI) does something similar if you crank up the B-frames, though too many breaks hardware playback on some devices.
I generally use pretty aggressive Handbrake settings, since a longer one-time encode is worth endless decoding of smaller & nicer files.
You clearly don't need any advice from me but JFYI I am on vacation on a crappy Comcast connection which I rated at <5Mbs. I of course plugged an AE in to the back of the Comcast router for my own WiFi use. Running ML on a MBP i7 I just watched the 5 minute plus video on Apple web site (retina display) without a stutter or dropped frame using Safari.
So like he said, the smaller the files.
At least Airplay supports mkv streamed flawlessly from VLC via Apple TV in Mountain Lion or AirParrot on older Macs.
Exactly. X Bits per frame times X frames determines file size. I'm sure he meant reduced bitrate requirements (Better efficiency at a given bitrate resulting in a better quality movie @ the same size), or equivalent quality at a reduced bitrate (resulting in the same quality at a smaller file size).I've been encoding video for years starting with old VCD, SVCD, DivX, Xvid, MPEG2, and H.264.
You can easily encode good quality 720P @2000 Kbps using 2 pass. I've currently got about 2 TB of data from 500 or so BD-Rips and DVD Rips from my library. A typical 720 rip will encode at about 20-25 FPS on a quad core i7 2010 iMac. 1080P in 10-12 fps range (about twice the time it takes to watch a movie). All of these are 2-Pass encodes, with HE-AAC 5.1 Audio.
H.264 can get you up to 75% reduction in filesize due to increased bitrate efficiency on a very 'clean' low motion source. If H.265 is half again more efficient than H.264, this is great news!