I would rather see mkv support coming to iOS before this...
mkv is only a container, usually holding mp4 video anyway. Therefore, it seems to be an unnecessary extra enclosure (hello AVCHD).
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
As an aside, I experimented with a similar technique using Apple's "Optical Flow" feature of FCP X.
converted a video to frames (image sequence) using QuickTime 7
dropped some of the frames -- for instance 3 or 4 out of 5
converted the resulting frames back to a video using QuickTime 7
used Optical Flow to smooth the video (generate missing frames)
This was a pretty gross experiment -- there was no analysis on which frames to drop or any hints about the missing frames... they were gone, just gone!
The resulting video was surprisingly good and it used a file that was 10%-30% of the original file size.
Cool research! I think Handbrake (or x264 CLI) does something similar if you crank up the B-frames, though too many breaks hardware playback on some devices.
I generally use pretty aggressive Handbrake settings, since a longer one-time encode is worth endless decoding of smaller & nicer files.
I wasn't aware that handbrake could do that, thanks -- damn... now I'll have to rerip & recode all our DVDs... I wonder if it will slim down "The Two Fat Ladies"
I wasn't aware that handbrake could do that, thanks -- damn... now I'll have to rerip & recode all our DVDs... I wonder if it will slim down "The Two Fat Ladies"
Only after one of them sings / wink
I have taken the opposite approach of late, 2 TB bare drives are pretty cheap if you shop around so why kill yourself on the compression end.
Who else thinks iTunes might support this come the September/October update? Who else thinks Apple will start converting all of their iTunes video content to HEVC to be completed by the end of next year?
I think the biggest benefit is for streaming video companies. They can blast through their entire collection, issue a minor update for decoding and cut bandwidth usage in half.
It's a shame the forum doesn't have smilies any more; if it did I'd be using a bucket load of ROFLs and LOLs at this.
Apple was epically pathetic at supporting High Profile H.264. High Profile H.264 has existed from the beginning of H.264 (2003) and it took Apple until 2010 to support it.
You clearly don't need any advice from me but JFYI I am on vacation on a crappy Comcast connection which I rated at <5Mbs. I of course plugged an AE in to the back of the Comcast router for my own WiFi use. Running ML on a MBP i7 I just watched the 5 minute plus video on Apple web site (retina display) without a stutter or dropped frame using Safari.
I wasn't aware that handbrake could do that, thanks -- damn... now I'll have to rerip & recode all our DVDs... I wonder if it will slim down "The Two Fat Ladies"
Only after one of them sings / wink
I have taken the opposite approach of late, 2 TB bare drives are pretty cheap if you shop around so why kill yourself on the compression end.
I used to save all my DVD rips, because I figured I would recode them as better codecs came available. I have about 23 TB of various LaCie Drives... but the power bricks die after a few years & I got tired of replacing them (88% failure rate). Anyway, i kept having fewer and fewer drives available online, so I just wholesale deleted the ripped DVD source to free up online space.
We have about 1,000 videos (mostly ripped DVDs), plus home movies where an 8 GB AVCHD card expands to about 57 Gig...
Finally I said screw it and bought a 12 TB Promise Pegasus RAID... It cost $2,000 -- just $300 more than a 2 TB LaCie I bought 3 years earlier... It is Thunderbolt & faster than the internal drive on my latest iMac 27. Anyway great piece of kit -- so much so that I bought another (after the flood) for $2,400.
Two of my 3 grandkids are learning FCP X and watching the 2Reel Guys Podcasts to learn about storytelling...
I would rather see mkv support coming to iOS before this...
I don't follow how these are linked. One is a codec and the other is a container. There is also no need from Apple's PoV to support Matroska when all the features, and audio and video codecs Apple's devices support are already supported by their supported containers. On top of that, Matroska has the limitation of not allowing chapters which is something the MP4 container can support.
I used to save all my DVD rips, because I figured I would recode them as better codecs came available. I have about 23 TB of various LaCie Drives... but the power bricks die after a few years & I got tired of replacing them (88% failure rate). Anyway, i kept having fewer and fewer drives available online, so I just wholesale deleted the ripped DVD source to free up online space.
We have about 1,000 videos (mostly ripped DVDs), plus home movies where an 8 GB AVCHD card expands to about 57 Gig...
Finally I said screw it and bought a 12 TB Promise Pegasus RAID... It cost $2,000 -- just $300 more than a 2 TB LaCie I bought 3 years earlier... It is Thunderbolt & faster than the internal drive on my latest iMac 27. Anyway great piece of kit -- so much so that I bought another (after the flood) for $2,400.
Two of my 3 grandkids are learning FCP X and watching the 2Reel Guys Podcasts to learn about storytelling...
Awesome that your grandkids are learning to edit video. We just got a new granddaughter last week (hence we are on Cape Cod) and I plan to start teaching her in a few years. / smile
I hear you on failure rates. Seagate has had 100% failure rate for me over time starting with 5MB drives on Apple /// profile and ending with an external 1TB Mac 800 FW drive last month and far too many in between, I say ending as I'll never touch another! Prior to that I used Rodine drives on Apple ][s and they were not much better, don't even ask about Corvus systems! Western Digital have been the best drives for me so far. There has to be a better way ... My first large SSD, a 256 GIG, is showing promise but I know the issues and they are prohibitively expensive. As I have mentioned before, I always have to remember what I paid for 16 GIG RAID systems in 1996 when editing TV shows. OMG! I wonder what we'll have in a decade?
If Google would have it their way, investments in technological advancements like this would probably not be possible, since everyone was still using an inferior h.264 knockoff codec because it's supposedly 'more open and free' :-/
I can't wait until this becomes mainstream, with hardware codec support. A good Blu-Ray encode is around 8-10 GB right now, and while I'm not particularly bothered by the file size, the quality of such an encode is decidedly worse than a Blu-Ray disc. Same bitrate double the quality please :-)
What knock off codec are you talking about? x264? x264 is an open IMPLMENTATION of AVC/h.264, it's the same format...
Western Digital have been the best drives for me so far.
Same here. Ever since they came out with Caviar line I've had no problems and they run 24x7 under heavy load in the servers. I think my Mac Pro came with them too. I only opened the case once to put in an Intensity Pro card and I never looked at the drives, however I'm thinking I read somewhere they were WD.
Until the W3C gets some consensus on HTML 5 video, this is all academic. Having to create a cascade of video options (H.264, WebM, Ogg, Flash) in order to reach an audience is so lame. Maybe when 90% of that audience is on iOS we can spend less time on encoding and more time creating compelling content.
That's encoding, not decoding, which always takes more resources. And who knows what decoding would take or what Apple has in the pipeline. They could be working on a new Apple TV set box which could handle this that would be out for the holidays. They would likely slowly bring this into the game starting with big name releases or just one or two studios, perhaps as a Super1080 option that would slowly replaced the current 1080 on back titles. Perhaps this would have the power to make digital 3D releases possible and they might start with that. Say with all the Disney/Pixar titles that a being converted. I would pay the current $19.99 digital price if it came with SD, 720, 1080 and 10803D especially if it had several language and subtitle tracks, the disc features etc,
I also posted the line above that about decoding, the 2fps part...
I used to save all my DVD rips, because I figured I would recode them as better codecs came available. I have about 23 TB of various LaCie Drives... but the power bricks die after a few years & I got tired of replacing them (88% failure rate). Anyway, i kept having fewer and fewer drives available online, so I just wholesale deleted the ripped DVD source to free up online space.
We have about 1,000 videos (mostly ripped DVDs), plus home movies where an 8 GB AVCHD card expands to about 57 Gig...
Finally I said screw it and bought a 12 TB Promise Pegasus RAID... It cost $2,000 -- just $300 more than a 2 TB LaCie I bought 3 years earlier... It is Thunderbolt & faster than the internal drive on my latest iMac 27. Anyway great piece of kit -- so much so that I bought another (after the flood) for $2,400.
Two of my 3 grandkids are learning FCP X and watching the 2Reel Guys Podcasts to learn about storytelling...
Awesome that your grandkids are learning to edit video. We just got a new granddaughter last week (hence we are on Cape Cod) and I plan to start teaching her in a few years. / smile
I hear you on failure rates. Seagate has had 100% failure rate for me over time starting with 5MB drives on Apple /// profile and ending with an external 1TB Mac 800 FW drive last month and far too many in between, I say ending as I'll never touch another! Prior to that I used Rodine drives on Apple ][s and they were not much better, don't even ask about Corvus systems! Western Digital have been the best drives for me so far. There has to be a better way ... My first large SSD, a 256 GIG, is showing promise but I know the issues and they are prohibitively expensive. As I have mentioned before, I always have to remember what I paid for 16 GIG RAID systems in 1996 when editing TV shows. OMG! I wonder what we'll have in a decade?
Ha! We made a lot (a real lot) of money selling Corvus -- they mainly used IMI drives in the early Shaqille shoebox model... Jeesh, 5 Megabytes for only $4,999. (Even Apple bought Corvus drives from us). We had a very good history with Corvus -- it did help that we were their first sale and my wife and I became good friends with the founders.
Ha! We made a lot (a real lot) of money selling Corvus -- they mainly used IMI drives in the early Shaqille shoebox model... Jeesh, 5 Megabytes for only $4,999. (Even Apple bought Corvus drives from us). We had a very good history with Corvus -- it did help that we were their first sale and my wife and I became good friends with the founders.
To be fair it wasn't the HDs with Corvus, it was the networking software and ribbon cables we had a few issues with (not to mention early multi-user, relational databases) ... we moved to Symbiotic Fiber Optic networks after that on Apple ][s. (we were sales too, not end users).
Ha! We made a lot (a real lot) of money selling Corvus -- they mainly used IMI drives in the early Shaqille shoebox model... Jeesh, 5 Megabytes for only $4,999. (Even Apple bought Corvus drives from us). We had a very good history with Corvus -- it did help that we were their first sale and my wife and I became good friends with the founders.
To be fair it wasn't the HDs it was the networking software and ribbon cables we had a few issues with (not to mention early multi-user databases) ... we moved to Symbiotic Fiber Optic networks after that on Apple ][s. (we were sales too, not end users).
Oh those were the days! LOL
Now, what possible problems could anyone have with 50 wire (pin) flat ribbon cables? AIR, they were about 2 inches wide, fairly rigid -- and a joy to string. I never found any good multi-user databases in those days (before relationals like Oracle, Sybase/Windows DB Server). Now, even SQLite 3 cad do multi-user.
Xvid is Open; h264 is proprietary and you have to pay a licence fee to use it.
Xvid sucks compared to H.264 in terms of bitrate:quality, and I don't have to pay a licensing fee to use H.264. H.264 is free for most consumer use, and even now much pro and content provider use. The remaining fees that do exists are really negligible and may be greatly offset by the cost difference of having to serve Xvid (not to mention the reduced audience if you use Xvid).
No, not like he said. Look at his quot again: "HEVC gives smaller file sizes at higher bitrates". To correct that phrase you would say, "Any codec gives smaller file sizes at lower bitrates and larger file sizes at higher bitrates".
More important was to correct the comment of "No need to split it when you get both!". Yes, you do need to "split" meaning a decision with any codec still needs to be made in terms of trading off quality for bitrate. One could, if they wanted, use HEVC and get lower quality than H.264. One could also use HEVC and get higher bitrates (larger file sizes) than H.264. However, using HEVC gives you a better quality:bitrate ratio than H.264 does... it's about twice that of H.264. So one must still decide on how much they want the quality and/or the bitrate to improve using HEVC versus H.264.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vorsos
Originally Posted by mausz
I would rather see mkv support coming to iOS before this...
mkv is only a container, usually holding mp4 video anyway. Therefore, it seems to be an unnecessary extra enclosure (hello AVCHD).
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
As an aside, I experimented with a similar technique using Apple's "Optical Flow" feature of FCP X.
converted a video to frames (image sequence) using QuickTime 7
dropped some of the frames -- for instance 3 or 4 out of 5
converted the resulting frames back to a video using QuickTime 7
used Optical Flow to smooth the video (generate missing frames)
This was a pretty gross experiment -- there was no analysis on which frames to drop or any hints about the missing frames... they were gone, just gone!
The resulting video was surprisingly good and it used a file that was 10%-30% of the original file size.
Cool research! I think Handbrake (or x264 CLI) does something similar if you crank up the B-frames, though too many breaks hardware playback on some devices.
I generally use pretty aggressive Handbrake settings, since a longer one-time encode is worth endless decoding of smaller & nicer files.
I wasn't aware that handbrake could do that, thanks -- damn... now I'll have to rerip & recode all our DVDs... I wonder if it will slim down "The Two Fat Ladies"
Only after one of them sings / wink
I have taken the opposite approach of late, 2 TB bare drives are pretty cheap if you shop around so why kill yourself on the compression end.
I think the biggest benefit is for streaming video companies. They can blast through their entire collection, issue a minor update for decoding and cut bandwidth usage in half.
Probably quite soon:
http://code.google.com/p/x265/
It's a shame the forum doesn't have smilies any more; if it did I'd be using a bucket load of ROFLs and LOLs at this.
Apple was epically pathetic at supporting High Profile H.264. High Profile H.264 has existed from the beginning of H.264 (2003) and it took Apple until 2010 to support it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
You clearly don't need any advice from me but JFYI I am on vacation on a crappy Comcast connection which I rated at <5Mbs. I of course plugged an AE in to the back of the Comcast router for my own WiFi use. Running ML on a MBP i7 I just watched the 5 minute plus video on Apple web site (retina display) without a stutter or dropped frame using Safari.
I'm running Safari 5.1.6 in Lion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I wasn't aware that handbrake could do that, thanks -- damn... now I'll have to rerip & recode all our DVDs... I wonder if it will slim down "The Two Fat Ladies"
Only after one of them sings / wink
I have taken the opposite approach of late, 2 TB bare drives are pretty cheap if you shop around so why kill yourself on the compression end.
I used to save all my DVD rips, because I figured I would recode them as better codecs came available. I have about 23 TB of various LaCie Drives... but the power bricks die after a few years & I got tired of replacing them (88% failure rate). Anyway, i kept having fewer and fewer drives available online, so I just wholesale deleted the ripped DVD source to free up online space.
We have about 1,000 videos (mostly ripped DVDs), plus home movies where an 8 GB AVCHD card expands to about 57 Gig...
Finally I said screw it and bought a 12 TB Promise Pegasus RAID... It cost $2,000 -- just $300 more than a 2 TB LaCie I bought 3 years earlier... It is Thunderbolt & faster than the internal drive on my latest iMac 27. Anyway great piece of kit -- so much so that I bought another (after the flood) for $2,400.
Two of my 3 grandkids are learning FCP X and watching the 2Reel Guys Podcasts to learn about storytelling...
I don't follow how these are linked. One is a codec and the other is a container. There is also no need from Apple's PoV to support Matroska when all the features, and audio and video codecs Apple's devices support are already supported by their supported containers. On top of that, Matroska has the limitation of not allowing chapters which is something the MP4 container can support.
ML does seem to have a few wrinkles ironed out!
Awesome that your grandkids are learning to edit video. We just got a new granddaughter last week (hence we are on Cape Cod) and I plan to start teaching her in a few years. / smile
I hear you on failure rates. Seagate has had 100% failure rate for me over time starting with 5MB drives on Apple /// profile and ending with an external 1TB Mac 800 FW drive last month and far too many in between, I say ending as I'll never touch another! Prior to that I used Rodine drives on Apple ][s and they were not much better, don't even ask about Corvus systems! Western Digital have been the best drives for me so far. There has to be a better way ... My first large SSD, a 256 GIG, is showing promise but I know the issues and they are prohibitively expensive. As I have mentioned before, I always have to remember what I paid for 16 GIG RAID systems in 1996 when editing TV shows. OMG! I wonder what we'll have in a decade?
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range
If Google would have it their way, investments in technological advancements like this would probably not be possible, since everyone was still using an inferior h.264 knockoff codec because it's supposedly 'more open and free' :-/
I can't wait until this becomes mainstream, with hardware codec support. A good Blu-Ray encode is around 8-10 GB right now, and while I'm not particularly bothered by the file size, the quality of such an encode is decidedly worse than a Blu-Ray disc. Same bitrate double the quality please :-)
What knock off codec are you talking about? x264? x264 is an open IMPLMENTATION of AVC/h.264, it's the same format...
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Western Digital have been the best drives for me so far.
Same here. Ever since they came out with Caviar line I've had no problems and they run 24x7 under heavy load in the servers. I think my Mac Pro came with them too. I only opened the case once to put in an Intensity Pro card and I never looked at the drives, however I'm thinking I read somewhere they were WD.
Until the W3C gets some consensus on HTML 5 video, this is all academic. Having to create a cascade of video options (H.264, WebM, Ogg, Flash) in order to reach an audience is so lame. Maybe when 90% of that audience is on iOS we can spend less time on encoding and more time creating compelling content.
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
That's encoding, not decoding, which always takes more resources. And who knows what decoding would take or what Apple has in the pipeline. They could be working on a new Apple TV set box which could handle this that would be out for the holidays. They would likely slowly bring this into the game starting with big name releases or just one or two studios, perhaps as a Super1080 option that would slowly replaced the current 1080 on back titles. Perhaps this would have the power to make digital 3D releases possible and they might start with that. Say with all the Disney/Pixar titles that a being converted. I would pay the current $19.99 digital price if it came with SD, 720, 1080 and 10803D especially if it had several language and subtitle tracks, the disc features etc,
I also posted the line above that about decoding, the 2fps part...
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I used to save all my DVD rips, because I figured I would recode them as better codecs came available. I have about 23 TB of various LaCie Drives... but the power bricks die after a few years & I got tired of replacing them (88% failure rate). Anyway, i kept having fewer and fewer drives available online, so I just wholesale deleted the ripped DVD source to free up online space.
We have about 1,000 videos (mostly ripped DVDs), plus home movies where an 8 GB AVCHD card expands to about 57 Gig...
Finally I said screw it and bought a 12 TB Promise Pegasus RAID... It cost $2,000 -- just $300 more than a 2 TB LaCie I bought 3 years earlier... It is Thunderbolt & faster than the internal drive on my latest iMac 27. Anyway great piece of kit -- so much so that I bought another (after the flood) for $2,400.
Two of my 3 grandkids are learning FCP X and watching the 2Reel Guys Podcasts to learn about storytelling...
Awesome that your grandkids are learning to edit video. We just got a new granddaughter last week (hence we are on Cape Cod) and I plan to start teaching her in a few years. / smile
I hear you on failure rates. Seagate has had 100% failure rate for me over time starting with 5MB drives on Apple /// profile and ending with an external 1TB Mac 800 FW drive last month and far too many in between, I say ending as I'll never touch another! Prior to that I used Rodine drives on Apple ][s and they were not much better, don't even ask about Corvus systems! Western Digital have been the best drives for me so far. There has to be a better way ... My first large SSD, a 256 GIG, is showing promise but I know the issues and they are prohibitively expensive. As I have mentioned before, I always have to remember what I paid for 16 GIG RAID systems in 1996 when editing TV shows. OMG! I wonder what we'll have in a decade?
Ha! We made a lot (a real lot) of money selling Corvus -- they mainly used IMI drives in the early Shaqille shoebox model... Jeesh, 5 Megabytes for only $4,999. (Even Apple bought Corvus drives from us). We had a very good history with Corvus -- it did help that we were their first sale and my wife and I became good friends with the founders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
At least Airplay supports mkv streamed flawlessly from VLC via Apple TV in Mountain Lion or AirParrot on older Macs.
QuickTime would as well, given the proper codecs.
To be fair it wasn't the HDs with Corvus, it was the networking software and ribbon cables we had a few issues with (not to mention early multi-user, relational databases) ... we moved to Symbiotic Fiber Optic networks after that on Apple ][s. (we were sales too, not end users).
Oh those were the days! LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Ha! We made a lot (a real lot) of money selling Corvus -- they mainly used IMI drives in the early Shaqille shoebox model... Jeesh, 5 Megabytes for only $4,999. (Even Apple bought Corvus drives from us). We had a very good history with Corvus -- it did help that we were their first sale and my wife and I became good friends with the founders.
To be fair it wasn't the HDs it was the networking software and ribbon cables we had a few issues with (not to mention early multi-user databases) ... we moved to Symbiotic Fiber Optic networks after that on Apple ][s. (we were sales too, not end users).
Oh those were the days! LOL
Now, what possible problems could anyone have with 50 wire (pin) flat ribbon cables? AIR, they were about 2 inches wide, fairly rigid -- and a joy to string. I never found any good multi-user databases in those days (before relationals like Oracle, Sybase/Windows DB Server). Now, even SQLite 3 cad do multi-user.
Someone told me that "Xvid is Open; h264 is proprietary and you have to pay a licence fee to use it." Huh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidod315
Xvid is Open; h264 is proprietary and you have to pay a licence fee to use it.
Xvid sucks compared to H.264 in terms of bitrate:quality, and I don't have to pay a licensing fee to use H.264. H.264 is free for most consumer use, and even now much pro and content provider use. The remaining fees that do exists are really negligible and may be greatly offset by the cost difference of having to serve Xvid (not to mention the reduced audience if you use Xvid).
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
So like he said, the smaller the files.
No, not like he said. Look at his quot again: "HEVC gives smaller file sizes at higher bitrates". To correct that phrase you would say, "Any codec gives smaller file sizes at lower bitrates and larger file sizes at higher bitrates".
More important was to correct the comment of "No need to split it when you get both!". Yes, you do need to "split" meaning a decision with any codec still needs to be made in terms of trading off quality for bitrate. One could, if they wanted, use HEVC and get lower quality than H.264. One could also use HEVC and get higher bitrates (larger file sizes) than H.264. However, using HEVC gives you a better quality:bitrate ratio than H.264 does... it's about twice that of H.264. So one must still decide on how much they want the quality and/or the bitrate to improve using HEVC versus H.264.