AuthenTec "Smart Sensor" appears key to Apple's urgent acquisition

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  • Reply 21 of 57
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


     


    I guess I wasn't clear.  I think the technology is great, but I think those two particular speculations on possible uses of it by Apple Insider are terribly dumb (IMO of course).  



    No you were clear enough and I wasn't disagreeing, just speculating that any of the obvious or even far fetched applications for this technology are more than likely not the application Apple has in mind.


     


    I guess I was not clear enough. On this forum, anytime you quote someone it is assumed that you are disagreeing with them unless otherwise noted as 'Agreed'.

  • Reply 22 of 57
    patranuspatranus Posts: 366member


    I think people are missing the idea.


    Its not going to be in the home button or a seperate reader.


     


    The fingerprint reader will be the *screen*.


     


    Swipe to unlock? Nope, just click unlock with your thumb and you phone either unlocks or doesn't.


    No more complex keys and passwords.


     


    Need to make a mobile payment? Just tap the pay button.  No pin required.


     


    Apple doesn't buy companies for solutions that are all over the industry.  They buy companies that build the *next generation* of industry standard technology.

  • Reply 23 of 57
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Patranus View Post


    Swipe to unlock? Nope, just click unlock with your thumb and you phone either unlocks or doesn't.


    No more complex keys and passwords.



    The reason we have to swipe is that it is a deliberate action. Just touching the screen might result in a lot of unnecessary unlocking, screen power up and accidental pants pocket dialing.

  • Reply 24 of 57
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,288member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Patranus View Post


    Swipe to unlock? Nope, just click unlock with your thumb and you phone either unlocks or doesn't.


    No more complex keys and passwords.


     


    Need to make a mobile payment? Just tap the pay button.  No pin required.



    Makes me wonder if "tapping" as we presently do it will have to change. A quick tap with the tip of a finger may not be sufficient to be read. Will have to be more of a press with the entire pad of the finger, perhaps even held for a period of time.

  • Reply 25 of 57
    gazoobeegazoobee Posts: 3,754member


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post

     


    I guess I wasn't clear.  I think the technology is great, but I think those two particular speculations on possible uses of it by Apple Insider are terribly dumb (IMO of course).  They would only work if Apple is prepared to go the route of endless pages of settings which they basically never do.  They envision a complicated environment that would bewilder the average user and so would have to be enabled for the "small subset" of users that wanted these complications through settings.  It seems really unlikely to me.  


     


     


    "Just like the "endless pages of settings" for multitouch options in OS X?"


     


    I think it far more likely that they might integrate the sensor technology into their next round of screens so that it works invisibly in the background.  The next iPhone might be aware if someone other than the owner was using it for instance and shut down.  It might throw up a small square on the screen (anywhere on the screen) and ask for your thumbprint for authentication.  It might give them the ability to differentiate between live fingers touching the screen and a non-living object.  These are all great qualities to have and I'm sure the Apple designers have already thought of these ideas and more.  


     


    "While doing magical "integration," why not put the speaker, mic and camera "in their next round of screens" too? Perhaps because it's just as ridiculous."


     


    The anti-trust angle could be covered off by continuing to manufacture the sensors currently in use.  That way everyone has the same technology but only Apple has it integrated into the screen.  That's what I'd do anyway.  



     


    "You mean, if you were capable of developing products? Or capable of magical instantiation of your imagination unconstrained by reality? "


     


    I don't know what you're talking about here other than I guess you are upset.  Probably that will end up being because I inadvertently came across too harshly or something (sadly a common occurrence).  None of your comments make any sense at all.


     


    It's a touch screen-based sensor technology.  The suggestion that it might be integrated seemed straightforward to me, whereas speakers and microphones are a totally different things.  


     


    Apologies to those that thought the complicated AppleInsider suggestions were not dumb.  I thought they were.  Just stating my opinion.   I can't really do much about the way I commonly talk/write but please be advised that I (almost) never mean anything in a mean spirited way regardless of whether it comes across that way.  On the other hand, I am a flawed human being like the rest of you and get angry and say stupid things as often as the average person I suppose.  

  • Reply 26 of 57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post



    ... This could allow Apple to supercharge its iOS Home button, enabling users to initiate different tasks (such as launching specific apps, Siri or Spotlight search; call a particular favorite (sic) contact; start a specific playlist or ask for directions to get home) with different fingers. ...


    For example, a user could perform a thumb swipe before scrolling in order to scroll twice as fast, when trying to navigate through a very long list. Or alternatively, swipe a particular finger to increase the sensitivity of a jog control to accurately step through a video one frame at a time. ...


     


    These both sound like incredibly wild and patently ridiculous speculations and something that Apple would never do IMO.  


     


    A Home button that does different things if pressed with different fingers?  Seriously?  No one sees the HUGE problems that would cause versus the very minimal gain for a small subset of users?  Gestures that do unexpected and completely different things when different users use them? Really?  


     


    Dumb de dumb dumb.  



     


     


    Configurable and optional!

  • Reply 27 of 57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Patranus View Post


    Swipe to unlock? Nope, just click unlock with your thumb and you phone either unlocks or doesn't.


    No more complex keys and passwords.



    The reason we have to swipe is that it is a deliberate action. Just touching the screen might result in a lot of unnecessary unlocking, screen power up and accidental pants pocket dialing.



     


    Still use swipe to unlock -- it just needs to be done (optionally) with an authorized finger or fingers.

  • Reply 28 of 57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Patranus View Post


    Swipe to unlock? Nope, just click unlock with your thumb and you phone either unlocks or doesn't.


    No more complex keys and passwords.


     


    Need to make a mobile payment? Just tap the pay button.  No pin required.



    Makes me wonder if "tapping" as we presently do it will have to change. A quick tap with the tip of a finger may not be sufficient to be read. Will have to be more of a press with the entire pad of the finger, perhaps even held for a period of time.



     


    I don't think that every touch needs to be authorized -- just things like "swipe to unlock", "buy", Login"...


     


    ...I can see (hear) it all now:


     


    Siri:  "He's touching me!"

  • Reply 29 of 57


    >On an updated iPad it could be the key to user profiles. No need ot select the user, just turn the device on like you normally would and it automaticall authenticates and loads your customized home screen/apps.


     


    I think this is one of the features the smart sensor technology will offer to iPad users- one that many enterprises have been clamoring for- True Multiuser Capability [TM®]. Combine this with... say the ability to have the front facing camera capture the user's retina print and you might have a pretty decent biometric two factor authentication scheme without having to rely on smart cards or the keyboard (for typed in passwords) to authenticate. 

  • Reply 30 of 57


    For me, fingerprint recognition would only have to solve one major problem for me for it to be very useful. I have pretty sensitive business emails on my phone so I need to lock it with a passcode, but it's a pain in the ass every time I need to open my phone to have to put in a 4 digit code just to check an email or text. If they could make it so that I can unlock my phone just by placing my finger on the screen, it would make keeping my phone locked all the time MUCH easier! I'm sure there are a lot of people in my same shoes that should really have their phones locked but choose not to because unlocking it all the damn time can be tedious.

  • Reply 31 of 57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    The reason we have to swipe is that it is a deliberate action. Just touching the screen might result in a lot of unnecessary unlocking, screen power up and accidental pants pocket dialing.



     


    Pants pocket dialing won't happen in this scenario since you will have to touch the screen with a finger, not with a random object.

  • Reply 32 of 57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Patranus View Post


    The fingerprint reader will be the *screen*.


     


    Swipe to unlock? Nope, just click unlock with your thumb and you phone either unlocks or doesn't.


    No more complex keys and passwords.


     


    Need to make a mobile payment? Just tap the pay button.  No pin required.



     


    And the screen would be able distinguish between different fingers. For example, a drawing app could assign different colors to different fingers. Or gestures could be finger-dependent.


     


    However, I doubt it will happen in the near future. Firstly, it would require a major R&D effort to upgrade tiny fingerprint sensors into fullscreen multi-touch sensors integrated with display tech. Apple of late seems to prefer buying mature technologies and work on integrating them deeply into their products. Secondly, it would be prohibitively expensive computationally. Imagine 9.7-inch iPad sensor with 500 pixels per inch. That amounts to a 2910 x 3880 pixel stream that has to be analyzed in real-time at full resolution (otherwise, the ridges and valleys won't be visible). At present time, this is simply impossible to do in an energy-efficient manner.


     


    So I think they will start with home button.

  • Reply 33 of 57

    An idealized scenario might look like this:


     


    1. A fingerprint sensor of a new type is built into the home button. The button looks exactly as it did before.


     


    2. You don't need the lock screen and swipe-to-unlock gesture anymore. The button registers the press only if pressed by a finger; after that, device immediately displays the home screen. (The innovation being the sensor's ability to detect not just fingerprints of specific people, but human fingerprints in general.)


     


    3. If you want, you are able to lock the device to your fingerprints only. All 10 fingers are scanned, so you can use any one of them without thinking.


     


    4. Fingerprints are uploaded to iCloud and in fact become one of your iCloud passwords (opt-in; text passwords continue to exist for high-security scenarios). When you get a new device, you simply press the home button; your device automatically identifies you and starts downloading your preferences, apps and data.


     


     


    However, this idealization seems to break down when it comes to security. The screen of your device is all stamped over with your fingerprints; with 3D printers widely available, it seems it will be easy to create artificial "stamps" from fingerprint photos. There are many other places where a potential hacker could acquire a fingerprint. It just feels fundamentally insecure, as opposed to, say, high-resolution iris scan. What do you think?
  • Reply 34 of 57

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    These both sound like incredibly wild and patently ridiculous speculations and something that Apple would never do IMO.  


     


    A Home button that does different things if pressed with different fingers?  Seriously?  No one sees the HUGE problems that would cause versus the very minimal gain for a small subset of users?  Gestures that do unexpected and completely different things when different users use them? Really?  


     


    Dumb de dumb dumb.  



     If the Home button was a fingerprint reader, I'd never have to enter my passcode again. And if someone else's finger pressed it, the passcode prompt would come up. That the first thing off the top of my head I could come up with for this. Maybe a specific fingerprint to auto-open the camera app as well? Honestly, you could set it up as simple or as complex as you want it.

  • Reply 35 of 57
    Same post provided in previous article.

    Facts:

    [IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/10575/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

    [IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/10576/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

    [IMG ALT=""]http://forums.appleinsider.com/content/type/61/id/10577/width/350/height/700[/IMG]

    Looks like this sensor would fit just fine in the outside upper corner of the new iPhone. There is a larger and exactly the same shaped rectangle slot in the frame. Plus, glass coverings will still exist in the upper and lower part of the phone and would explain why the headphone jack went to the bottom.

    As well, it seems that a lefty or righty holding the iPhone could easily swipe down an index finger to run a transaction.

    ****Additional notes. This sensor will most likely be a proprietary "Apple Sensor" designed with the help of AuthenTec's technology and expertise. I assume by the slot size, it will be nearly the same sensor in this article, just larger to fit the iPhone 5 purposes. Apple also probably wanted to acquire the company as widely mentioned in order to avoid future collaboration and royalties in subsequent models of the iPhone. Obviously, once in the product, we will not want to lose the capability.

    ****Here is a link to AuthenTec's 8-K and developer's agreement with Apple. Search "Apple Sensor" and its definition is in Exhibit A.
    http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...4083dex101.htm

    ****It is going to happen.
  • Reply 36 of 57
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    mstone wrote: »
    Apple apparently sees something useful in their technology. Probably something that the company itself does not even see.

    I can't imagine it to be for security, but what if it's for convenience. For instance, what if the body of the universal Apple HDTV remote control had areas on the natural way people hold a remote so that when a new family member picks it up it can adjust its settings, channel lineup, favorites, etc. for that user without the rigamarole of accessing a menu to make the change. It could also be used to lock out channels or access if the finger print isn't recognized but that would be a less secure, secondary feature.
  • Reply 37 of 57
    I wonder if a stolen iPhone could send the thief's fingerprint to the police?

    And as a parent I would like the iPhone to automatically impose restrictions when my kids borrow the phone but not of course when I'm using it.
  • Reply 38 of 57
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by yakovlev View Post


     


    Pants pocket dialing won't happen in this scenario since you will have to touch the screen with a finger, not with a random object.



    I think it could. For example I just did a test. I put my finger under my shirt tail which was conveniently untucked already then I pressed the Home button, then could easily swipe to unlock without my finger actually touching the screen through the cloth of the shirt. The same thing could happen if the phone is activated in your pocket. I might reach inside a pocket to get something and touch the screen accidentally and if that was all it took to unlock well you get the idea.... If it is then open and active, just the motion of walking could dial a number. Swipe to unlock is essential to preventing this from happening.

  • Reply 39 of 57
    unicron wrote: »
    And multi-user iPad would be great (finally!).

    I know what you are saying, but in fact a single-user iPad is much better. (It's my iPad dammit, get your own! I don't care if we are married to me!). I have over the last couple of years become increasingly possessive in regards to my iPad. At this point, at least to me, a multi-user iPad is as about as desirable as multi-user underwear - there's no reason we couldn't do that, I just don't want to go there.
  • Reply 40 of 57
    rjbruce wrote: »
    So if I'm stuck out in a snow storm and have to call for help, will I be able to unlock my phone?
    Depends on the level of frostbite...
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