That is one complicated set of questions - I hope the jury members all kept detailed notes. Also, an interesting condition specified on page 1:
[QUOTE]We, the jury, unanimously agree to the answers to the following questions and return them under the instructions of this Court as our verdict in this case.[/QUOTE]
I lost the will to count the number of actual questions, but it's clearly in the hundreds. I cannot imagine the jury being unanimous on all of them, so then what happens? This does look rather like Samsung's final effort to tie the entire trial in knots.
Nothing personal but as a person living in Canada I don't know what you are talking about. The jury system up here is pretty much the same as the US. Just because you haven't known anyone that's been on one up here ... well, that's a pretty meaningless statistic isn't it?
Also, it's hard to tell from the bad writing in the main article whether the form is actually a Samsung one or an Apple one or a joint one (it seems to imply the latter), but I don't get why everyone is talking about how "complex" it is.
It's a grid for cripes sake. You fill in the grid with "yes" and/or "no." The deciding factor in the yeses and nos, is written at the top of each grid (what patent the grid refers to).
If the jury is too dumb to figure out a grid of yeses and nos, or is unsure what the patents that the trial is based on are all about then all is lost. Might as well throw dice if the jury is as dim or "challenged" as many people here seem to be.
I repeat ... it's a grid.
The only thing simpler would be ticks and x's instead of yes and no.
I think the jurors should be required to fillout a captcha with a math question, a programming requirement and maybe a bit of genetics knowledge checks. Just to be on the safe side
I think the jurors should be required to fillout a captcha with a math question, a programming requirement and maybe a bit of genetics knowledge checks. Just to be on the safe side
I prefer a much simpler approach:
Is Samsung:
_____ Guilty
_____ Very Guilty
_____ Guilty, Guilty, Guilty
Should Samsung's penalty be:
______ $2.5 billion
______ $7.5 billion (tripled for willful infringement)
______ $1 googol (since they licensed their OS from Google)
Judge Koh needs to stop being a pussy and go ahead and make a verdict. She is avoiding it at all costs and it PISSES ME OFF
But both sides requested a jury trial, so the jury has to do their thing first.
At this point, Judge Koh's ruling is going to be to tie the lawyers up by their toes and give each member of the jury one wack with a big stick per question per lawyer.... The remaining lawyers can then negotiate or have the jury "decide" again!
To make it fair, justice should be blindfolded, it will be like a piñata party. More people will want to be on her juries too!
Nothing personal but as a person living in Canada I don't know what you are talking about. The jury system up here is pretty much the same as the US. Just because you haven't known anyone that's been on one up here ... well, that's a pretty meaningless statistic isn't it?
No it isn't "pretty much the same". In Canada, juries are used in civil suits only exceptionally. Since most suits are civil suits, the number of jury trials in the US is significantly higher. Original poster's observations are quite correct. I will corroborate by saying that I know only a few people who have been called for jury duty and they were criminal trials in all cases.
I like the Canadian system because in most cases the subject matter is miles above the jury's head and they are ill-suited to pass judgement on highly technical matters such as patents, contract law, etc. Lawyers need to argue the technical merits much more and focus less on making complicated issues comprehensible to Johnny Lunchbucket.
No it isn't "pretty much the same". In Canada, juries are used in civil suits only exceptionally. Since most suits are civil suits, the number of jury trials in the US is significantly higher. Original poster's observations are quite correct. I will corroborate by saying that I know only a few people who have been called for jury duty and they were criminal trials in all cases.
I like the Canadian system because in most cases the subject matter is miles above the jury's head and they are ill-suited to pass judgement on highly technical matters such as patents, contract law, etc. Lawyers need to argue the technical merits much more and focus less on making complicated issues comprehensible to Johnny Lunchbucket.
New form:
Is Samsung evil? [ ] yes [ ] definitely [ ] can I have fries with my burger
Holy crap. Imagine being a juror getting those instructions after a two week trial. My first reaction would be "WTF didn't you give us this before the testimony started so we'd have a prayer of paying attention to the right stuff?"
I feel exceptionally sorry for the foreman of the jury. As others have pointed out, the challenge is to reach consensus on the answers to literally hundreds of questions. Did the Samsung SUX9000 violate patent '409? Did the Samsung9000a violate patent '409? etc., etc. And at least half the jurors will be primarily interested in being done with this whole thing and haven't absorbed enough information to make meaningful assessment of any of the questions. What a nightmare.
No it isn't "pretty much the same". In Canada, juries are used in civil suits only exceptionally. Since most suits are civil suits, the number of jury trials in the US is significantly higher. Original poster's observations are quite correct. I will corroborate by saying that I know only a few people who have been called for jury duty and they were criminal trials in all cases.
I like the Canadian system because in most cases the subject matter is miles above the jury's head and they are ill-suited to pass judgement on highly technical matters such as patents, contract law, etc. Lawyers need to argue the technical merits much more and focus less on making complicated issues comprehensible to Johnny Lunchbucket.
Well said. It is completely beyond me how they expect a bunch of laypeople to be able to understand, let alone pass proper and fair judgement on matters so complex. For goodness sakes man, people study for years and years to be a patent lawyer to be able to interpret and understand patents and the law and you're gonna ask a bunch of people who just want to get the F#%^ out of there and get back to their families and jobs - to make a decision that they really can ONLY make on an emotional level based on how well crafted the lawyers' speeches were? If that's the definition of justice in the free world, just shoot me already.
Most other countries around the world have abolished trial by jury, by the way, because they realise that it doesn't work.
And in a criminal case, I wouldn't like to be on the jury, then have to watch my back everywhere I go. What if it's a mafia case? Man, it's like the world has gone mad!
Newsflash - the US of A doesn't automatically do everything correctly and perfectly. They have made lots of mistakes in their past in the name of democracy... and God, so let's not start pointing fingers.
Comments
That probably has the right ratio of yes no.
Apple & Samsung are both behaving like spoilt children, it's hard to take them seriously.
[QUOTE]We, the jury, unanimously agree to the answers to the following questions and return them under the instructions of this Court as our verdict in this case.[/QUOTE]
I lost the will to count the number of actual questions, but it's clearly in the hundreds. I cannot imagine the jury being unanimous on all of them, so then what happens? This does look rather like Samsung's final effort to tie the entire trial in knots.
Originally Posted by Droid
Apple & Samsung are both behaving like spoilt children, it's hard to take them seriously.
That's wrong. It's hard to take you seriously.
This is a trial by jury, so it is their job, not hers, to make the verdict
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich
Samsung can't even design a form properly. Pitiful.
They're waiting for Apple to do it first, then making a form just like it, but not quite as good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's wrong. It's hard to take you seriously.
Are you enough of a fanboy to declare Apple hasn't misbehaved recently when it comes to patents and trials?
Quote:
Originally Posted by logandigges
Judge Koh needs to stop being a pussy and go ahead and make a verdict. She is avoiding it at all costs and it PISSES ME OFF
I'm sure sad for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Nothing personal but as a person living in Canada I don't know what you are talking about. The jury system up here is pretty much the same as the US. Just because you haven't known anyone that's been on one up here ... well, that's a pretty meaningless statistic isn't it?
Also, it's hard to tell from the bad writing in the main article whether the form is actually a Samsung one or an Apple one or a joint one (it seems to imply the latter), but I don't get why everyone is talking about how "complex" it is.
It's a grid for cripes sake. You fill in the grid with "yes" and/or "no." The deciding factor in the yeses and nos, is written at the top of each grid (what patent the grid refers to).
If the jury is too dumb to figure out a grid of yeses and nos, or is unsure what the patents that the trial is based on are all about then all is lost. Might as well throw dice if the jury is as dim or "challenged" as many people here seem to be.
I repeat ... it's a grid.
The only thing simpler would be ticks and x's instead of yes and no.
I think the jurors should be required to fillout a captcha with a math question, a programming requirement and maybe a bit of genetics knowledge checks. Just to be on the safe side
I prefer a much simpler approach:
But both sides requested a jury trial, so the jury has to do their thing first.
At this point, Judge Koh's ruling is going to be to tie the lawyers up by their toes and give each member of the jury one wack with a big stick per question per lawyer.... The remaining lawyers can then negotiate or have the jury "decide" again!
To make it fair, justice should be blindfolded, it will be like a piñata party. More people will want to be on her juries too!
Originally Posted by mabhatter
To make it fair, justice should be blindfolded, it will be like a piñata party. More people will want to be on her juries too!
But instead of a donkey, it's two pinatas: the prosecution and the defense.
And instead of a stick, she's using her sword.
And instead of candy…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Nothing personal but as a person living in Canada I don't know what you are talking about. The jury system up here is pretty much the same as the US. Just because you haven't known anyone that's been on one up here ... well, that's a pretty meaningless statistic isn't it?
No it isn't "pretty much the same". In Canada, juries are used in civil suits only exceptionally. Since most suits are civil suits, the number of jury trials in the US is significantly higher. Original poster's observations are quite correct. I will corroborate by saying that I know only a few people who have been called for jury duty and they were criminal trials in all cases.
I like the Canadian system because in most cases the subject matter is miles above the jury's head and they are ill-suited to pass judgement on highly technical matters such as patents, contract law, etc. Lawyers need to argue the technical merits much more and focus less on making complicated issues comprehensible to Johnny Lunchbucket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barthrh
No it isn't "pretty much the same". In Canada, juries are used in civil suits only exceptionally. Since most suits are civil suits, the number of jury trials in the US is significantly higher. Original poster's observations are quite correct. I will corroborate by saying that I know only a few people who have been called for jury duty and they were criminal trials in all cases.
I like the Canadian system because in most cases the subject matter is miles above the jury's head and they are ill-suited to pass judgement on highly technical matters such as patents, contract law, etc. Lawyers need to argue the technical merits much more and focus less on making complicated issues comprehensible to Johnny Lunchbucket.
New form:
Is Samsung evil? [ ] yes [ ] definitely [ ] can I have fries with my burger
Holy crap. Imagine being a juror getting those instructions after a two week trial. My first reaction would be "WTF didn't you give us this before the testimony started so we'd have a prayer of paying attention to the right stuff?"
I feel exceptionally sorry for the foreman of the jury. As others have pointed out, the challenge is to reach consensus on the answers to literally hundreds of questions. Did the Samsung SUX9000 violate patent '409? Did the Samsung9000a violate patent '409? etc., etc. And at least half the jurors will be primarily interested in being done with this whole thing and haven't absorbed enough information to make meaningful assessment of any of the questions. What a nightmare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by logandigges
Judge Koh needs to stop being a pussy and go ahead and make a verdict. She is avoiding it at all costs and it PISSES ME OFF
The trial is in the United States... not Iran, the former Soviet Union, Mao's China, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwingrav
They're waiting for Apple to do it first, then making a form just like it, but not quite as good.
Well played... very good!
Quote:
Originally Posted by barthrh
No it isn't "pretty much the same". In Canada, juries are used in civil suits only exceptionally. Since most suits are civil suits, the number of jury trials in the US is significantly higher. Original poster's observations are quite correct. I will corroborate by saying that I know only a few people who have been called for jury duty and they were criminal trials in all cases.
I like the Canadian system because in most cases the subject matter is miles above the jury's head and they are ill-suited to pass judgement on highly technical matters such as patents, contract law, etc. Lawyers need to argue the technical merits much more and focus less on making complicated issues comprehensible to Johnny Lunchbucket.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Well said. It is completely beyond me how they expect a bunch of laypeople to be able to understand, let alone pass proper and fair judgement on matters so complex. For goodness sakes man, people study for years and years to be a patent lawyer to be able to interpret and understand patents and the law and you're gonna ask a bunch of people who just want to get the F#%^ out of there and get back to their families and jobs - to make a decision that they really can ONLY make on an emotional level based on how well crafted the lawyers' speeches were? If that's the definition of justice in the free world, just shoot me already.
Most other countries around the world have abolished trial by jury, by the way, because they realise that it doesn't work.
And in a criminal case, I wouldn't like to be on the jury, then have to watch my back everywhere I go. What if it's a mafia case? Man, it's like the world has gone mad!
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1
The trial is in the United States... not Iran, the former Soviet Union, Mao's China, etc.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Newsflash - the US of A doesn't automatically do everything correctly and perfectly. They have made lots of mistakes in their past in the name of democracy... and God, so let's not start pointing fingers.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Why is the jury being asked to decide if Apple infringed on Samsung's patents? Isn't Apple the plaintiff in this lawsuit?
They are bringing suit for IP claims against each other.