Overly complex verdict questionnaire could confuse jury, judge says [u]

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 46
    droiddroid Posts: 38member


    That probably has the right ratio of yes no.


     


    Apple & Samsung are both behaving like spoilt children, it's hard to take them seriously.

  • Reply 22 of 46
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,328member
    That is one complicated set of questions - I hope the jury members all kept detailed notes. Also, an interesting condition specified on page 1:

    [QUOTE]We, the jury, unanimously agree to the answers to the following questions and return them under the instructions of this Court as our verdict in this case.[/QUOTE]

    I lost the will to count the number of actual questions, but it's clearly in the hundreds. I cannot imagine the jury being unanimous on all of them, so then what happens? This does look rather like Samsung's final effort to tie the entire trial in knots.
  • Reply 23 of 46


    Originally Posted by Droid View Post

    Apple & Samsung are both behaving like spoilt children, it's hard to take them seriously.


     


    That's wrong. It's hard to take you seriously.

  • Reply 24 of 46
    iansilviansilv Posts: 283member
    I'll add an "Dude there are too many effin' like, things on this"
  • Reply 25 of 46
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,215member
    Judge Koh needs to stop being a pussy and go ahead and make a verdict. She is avoiding it at all costs and it PISSES ME OFF

    This is a trial by jury, so it is their job, not hers, to make the verdict
  • Reply 26 of 46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post



    Samsung can't even design a form properly. Pitiful.




    They're waiting for Apple to do it first, then making a form just like it, but not quite as good.

  • Reply 27 of 46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    That's wrong. It's hard to take you seriously.







    Are you enough of a fanboy to declare Apple hasn't misbehaved recently when it comes to patents and trials?

  • Reply 28 of 46
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by logandigges View Post


    Judge Koh needs to stop being a pussy and go ahead and make a verdict. She is avoiding it at all costs and it PISSES ME OFF





    I'm sure sad for you.

  • Reply 29 of 46
    lightknightlightknight Posts: 2,312member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    Nothing personal but as a person living in Canada I don't know what you are talking about.  The jury system up here is pretty much the same as the US.  Just because you haven't known anyone that's been on one up here ... well, that's a pretty meaningless statistic isn't it?  


     


    Also, it's hard to tell from the bad writing in the main article whether the form is actually a Samsung one or an Apple one or a joint one (it seems to imply the latter), but I don't get why everyone is talking about how "complex" it is.  


     


    It's a grid for cripes sake.  You fill in the grid with "yes" and/or "no."  The deciding factor in the yeses and nos, is written at the top of each grid (what patent the grid refers to).  


     


    If the jury is too dumb to figure out a grid of yeses and nos, or is unsure what the patents that the trial is based on are all about then all is lost.  Might as well throw dice if the jury is as dim or "challenged" as many people here seem to be.  


     


    I repeat ... it's a grid.  


     


    The only thing simpler would be ticks and x's instead of yes and no.  





    I think the jurors should be required to fillout a captcha with a math question, a programming requirement and maybe a bit of genetics knowledge checks. Just to be on the safe side :p

  • Reply 30 of 46
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member

    I think the jurors should be required to fillout a captcha with a math question, a programming requirement and maybe a bit of genetics knowledge checks. Just to be on the safe side :p

    I prefer a much simpler approach:
    Is Samsung:

    _____ Guilty

    _____ Very Guilty

    _____ Guilty, Guilty, Guilty



    Should Samsung's penalty be:

    ______ $2.5 billion

    ______ $7.5 billion (tripled for willful infringement)

    ______ $1 googol (since they licensed their OS from Google)

    ______ Off with their heads
  • Reply 31 of 46
    Judge Koh needs to stop being a pussy and go ahead and make a verdict. She is avoiding it at all costs and it PISSES ME OFF

    But both sides requested a jury trial, so the jury has to do their thing first.

    At this point, Judge Koh's ruling is going to be to tie the lawyers up by their toes and give each member of the jury one wack with a big stick per question per lawyer.... The remaining lawyers can then negotiate or have the jury "decide" again!

    To make it fair, justice should be blindfolded, it will be like a piñata party. More people will want to be on her juries too!
  • Reply 32 of 46
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by mabhatter View Post

    To make it fair, justice should be blindfolded, it will be like a piñata party. More people will want to be on her juries too!


     


    But instead of a donkey, it's two pinatas: the prosecution and the defense. 


     


    And instead of a stick, she's using her sword.




    And instead of candy… 

  • Reply 33 of 46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    Nothing personal but as a person living in Canada I don't know what you are talking about.  The jury system up here is pretty much the same as the US.  Just because you haven't known anyone that's been on one up here ... well, that's a pretty meaningless statistic isn't it?  


     


     



    No it isn't "pretty much the same". In Canada, juries are used in civil suits only exceptionally. Since most suits are civil suits, the number of jury trials in the US is significantly higher. Original poster's observations are quite correct. I will corroborate by saying that I know only a few people who have been called for jury duty and they were criminal trials in all cases.


     


    I like the Canadian system because in most cases the subject matter is miles above the jury's head and they are ill-suited to pass judgement on highly technical matters such as patents, contract law, etc. Lawyers need to argue the technical merits much more and focus less on making complicated issues comprehensible to Johnny Lunchbucket.

  • Reply 34 of 46

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by barthrh View Post


    No it isn't "pretty much the same". In Canada, juries are used in civil suits only exceptionally. Since most suits are civil suits, the number of jury trials in the US is significantly higher. Original poster's observations are quite correct. I will corroborate by saying that I know only a few people who have been called for jury duty and they were criminal trials in all cases.


     


    I like the Canadian system because in most cases the subject matter is miles above the jury's head and they are ill-suited to pass judgement on highly technical matters such as patents, contract law, etc. Lawyers need to argue the technical merits much more and focus less on making complicated issues comprehensible to Johnny Lunchbucket.



    New form:


    Is Samsung evil? [  ] yes  [  ] definitely [  ] can I have fries with my burger

  • Reply 35 of 46
    malaxmalax Posts: 1,598member


    Holy crap.  Imagine being a juror getting those instructions after a two week trial.  My first reaction would be "WTF didn't you give us this before the testimony started so we'd have a prayer of paying attention to the right stuff?"


     


    I feel exceptionally sorry for the foreman of the jury.  As others have pointed out, the challenge is to reach consensus on the answers to literally hundreds of questions.  Did the Samsung SUX9000 violate patent '409?  Did the Samsung9000a violate patent '409? etc., etc.  And at least half the jurors will be primarily interested in being done with this whole thing and haven't absorbed enough information to make meaningful assessment of any of the questions.  What a nightmare.

     

  • Reply 36 of 46
    hudson1hudson1 Posts: 800member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by logandigges View Post


    Judge Koh needs to stop being a pussy and go ahead and make a verdict. She is avoiding it at all costs and it PISSES ME OFF



    The trial is in the United States... not Iran, the former Soviet Union, Mao's China, etc.

  • Reply 37 of 46
    hudson1hudson1 Posts: 800member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by cwingrav View Post




    They're waiting for Apple to do it first, then making a form just like it, but not quite as good.





    Well played... very good!

  • Reply 38 of 46
    hzchzc Posts: 63member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by barthrh View Post


    No it isn't "pretty much the same". In Canada, juries are used in civil suits only exceptionally. Since most suits are civil suits, the number of jury trials in the US is significantly higher. Original poster's observations are quite correct. I will corroborate by saying that I know only a few people who have been called for jury duty and they were criminal trials in all cases.


     


    I like the Canadian system because in most cases the subject matter is miles above the jury's head and they are ill-suited to pass judgement on highly technical matters such as patents, contract law, etc. Lawyers need to argue the technical merits much more and focus less on making complicated issues comprehensible to Johnny Lunchbucket.



     

    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

    Well said. It is completely beyond me how they expect a bunch of laypeople to be able to understand, let alone pass proper and fair judgement on matters so complex. For goodness sakes man, people study for years and years to be a patent lawyer to be able to interpret and understand patents and the law and you're gonna ask a bunch of people who just want to get the F#%^ out of there and get back to their families and jobs - to make a decision that they really can ONLY make on an emotional level based on how well crafted the lawyers' speeches were? If that's the definition of justice in the free world, just shoot me already. image


     


    Most other countries around the world have abolished trial by jury, by the way, because they realise that it doesn't work.


     


    And in a criminal case, I wouldn't like to be on the jury, then have to watch my back everywhere I go. What if it's a mafia case? Man, it's like the world has gone mad!


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  • Reply 39 of 46
    hzchzc Posts: 63member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post


    The trial is in the United States... not Iran, the former Soviet Union, Mao's China, etc.



     

    #next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }

    Newsflash - the US of A doesn't automatically do everything correctly and perfectly. They have made lots of mistakes in their past in the name of democracy... and God, so let's not start pointing fingers.


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  • Reply 40 of 46
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,903member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post



    Why is the jury being asked to decide if Apple infringed on Samsung's patents? Isn't Apple the plaintiff in this lawsuit?


    They are bringing suit for IP claims against each other. 

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