If FaceTime could do audio only, which would be easier on the network, then it would be Clear that AT&T blocked similar service.
My Guess is that Apple never offer this iChat Feature because of the talk they had with AT&T before the first iPhone.
It is inevitable that one day, Cellular provider will become Internet provider and VOiP will get real Quality of Service (QOS), comparable, i hope to current voice technology.
BUT, as a result, they will loose all the money they make on voice, and SMS, and since they hate making less money, the will rise the price of the MB...
So at the end, we will have what we want but will pay a lot more for it.
It could be argued that having Facetime available to all subscribers, including those who remain on the current minute/data plans, would encourage people to lower the minutes portion of their plan. If that is the case it could also be argued that AT&T is blocking its usage to keep it from competing with a similar service that they offer. I don't know how well it would stand up but I see the two as competing services, voice communication and video communication can still be boiled down to communication.
Now that is a way to attempt to argue within the quoted rules, pity the initial case wasn't as smart and went with just focusing on Skype etc
With the iPhone available with many carriers, time to jump ship from AT&T. It's all about profit and exec. salary rather than improving the customer experience. Anyone know the innovation example, a washing machine that also washes potatoes. An innovative company would have invented one that does it all. Time for Apple to become a carrier and blow these MOJOS out of the water. RIM couldn't keep up, Nokia hanging by a thread, Samsung had to copy and now the time is right to morph into a carrier. Jobs would have thought of it, make it all VOIP. Snooze, you lose.
AT&T has decided to block the built-in Safari, Weather, Stocks, Maps, Notes, Photos, Calendar, Camera, App Store, iTunes, and Reminders apps on the iPhone unless users pay for their more expensive data plan.
When questioned as to the legality of this move, they replied, "Because we can."
In other news, the government to continue to ignore AT&T.
With Verizon they allow you to keep your current plan until you decide to upgrade your phone. Then you have no choice but to move ot the Share Everything Plan. The nice thing about this plan is they allow you to use your device as a hotspot without an extra charge. The shared data at least for me works out better because I use next to no cellular data because I am over wifi most of the day. So that was a wasted 2GB.
ATT plan is more expensive. However either one is like dealing with the Mafia.
With Verizon they allow you to keep your current plan until you decide to upgrade your phone. Then you have no choice but to move ot the Share Everything Plan.
Unless you never had data to begin with! Then you can stay on a phone without data.
In exactly one month, and if everything actually does work as it's supposed to, our plan is to drop Verizon unceremoniously and get three iPhones on Straight Talk. I have to make absolutely certain of a few things before we do that, otherwise we'll just stick with our seven year old phones on Verizon.
The problem with you AT&T, is that, you don't understand how business works. Companies like Apple and others are trying to provide customers with innovative products and services. You on the other hand are trying to take advantage of loop holes within the law system to rip off customers pockets.
AT&T, it doesn't matter that what you are doing is within the law, IT PISSES CUSTOMERS OFF!!
YOU ARE ACTUALLY GIVING PEOPLE A REASON (FEEDING THEIR DESIRE) TO USE OTHER CARRIERS. YOU ARE GIVING T-MOBILE AND SPRINT FREE ADVERTISING. You are giving ME (your customer for years) many reasons to change carrier.
On the long run you will see that customers care more about how much they pay than for how much coverage you have, just because you are trying to limit these services like Facetime through 3G.
What does the app have to do with pushing people to sign up for there MORE EXPENSIVE shared CRAP! Why does changing the plan to the shared plan suddenly make it OK to use FaceTime?
There are millions of apps out there, does that mean every time I put an app on my iPhone I have to change my plan?
With the iPhone available with many carriers, time to jump ship from AT&T. It's all about profit and exec. salary rather than improving the customer experience. Anyone know the innovation example, a washing machine that also washes potatoes. An innovative company would have invented one that does it all. Time for Apple to become a carrier and blow these MOJOS out of the water. RIM couldn't keep up, Nokia hanging by a thread, Samsung had to copy and now the time is right to morph into a carrier. Jobs would have thought of it, make it all VOIP. Snooze, you lose.
Unless you never had data to begin with! Then you can stay on a phone without data.
In exactly one month, and if everything actually does work as it's supposed to, our plan is to drop Verizon unceremoniously and get three iPhones on Straight Talk. I have to make absolutely certain of a few things before we do that, otherwise we'll just stick with our seven year old phones on Verizon.
Just did exactly that last weekend .
Ported the verizon number to a GSM iPhone on Straighttalk.
45 a Month for unlimited calling/text/web vs 85 for verizon.
Ported the verizon number to a GSM iPhone on Straighttalk.
45 a Month for unlimited calling/text/web vs 85 for verizon.
For three iPhones, unlimited talk, text (which we will never use for any reason), and 2GB data TOTAL, Verizon would charge us $200 a month.
It's $120 a month for unlimited talk, text, and 6GB data TOTAL (2GB each) on Straight Talk.
And more than that, Straight Talk with infinity/infinity/6GB is LESS MONEY than our current Verizon plan, 1000/250/0GB!
We can no longer justify staying with those morons.
Here's my list of concerns, though…
Network: It's AT&T, right? Or do they supplement with other GSM providers, too? What sort of coverage/quality/dropped calls?
Data: It works on an iPhone, right? At what speeds? I know they don't have LTE access yet and we won't be able to use LTE on our LTE iPhones, sure, but is it at least HSPA+? There's probably no HSPA+ service through AT&T where we live though, anyway…
Can other users thereof comment specifically on that? I know jragosta has been able to do it, but he had trouble that I forget about.
I just posted a complaint stating something like this:
"AT&T is forcing me to buy a more expensive plan to use FaceTime video-call service over cellular connection. AT&T is blocking FaceTime on my existing Data plan despite the fact that I pay monthly for a 3GB data allotment and only intend to use FaceTime within the limits of my plan. I believe this is a violation of the network neutrality rules"
Jailbreaking is a time consuming pain in the ass though.
Only a geek wants to spend that much time fooling around with the guts of their phone and boot-loaders and such and you have to give up on having all the latest stuff as you are always one release behind.
Huh?? The jailbreak I have for 5.1.1 took less than 10 minutes and was all automated. Did it for a friend who wanted to use a 3GS on Boost Mobile.
So if Facetime were a download from the app store that integrated into the phone app then we would be good to go?
Not necessarily.
Skype won the issue in part because it has or at least had, a text feature and an audio call feature both of which directly compete with AT&T offerings. That you had to download it is moot.
The key feature of FaceTime is video chatting which AT&T doesn't offer, so the rule isn't immediately applicable. that is the issue with the argument. Positioning it as an later native to making voice calls plus a data is data argument might win but 'you allow Skype' not really
Do they 'believe' in class action lawsuits? I 'believe' the time has come.
I would love for this to become a reality. The problem is that under their terms of service you cannot file a class action suit. You can only go through an arbitration service of their choosing. Personally, I find this to be the most heinous part of all of this. For U.S. customers, AT&T and basically every other carrier out there are trying to limit and remove your right to challenge them in court. This is your 7th Amendment:
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
AT&T and all the others out there do not want to go to court with you, or even a class of you. They just want to control your data.
So you're saying you're legally allowed to block all smartphones from making calls because "the phone app is built in"? Or from using the Internet because "the browser is built in"?
Not at all. They are focusing on the video feature of FaceTime, which they don't offer. And because they don't offer their own video chat service the quoted rule doesn't apply.
That the iPhone has it built in would only regulate Apple, not AT&T.
And unfortunately for us it is a legit legal argument under this particular rule.
Atlanta, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Kansas City, San Antonio and Waco already have Sprint LTE. Apparently, Sprint expects to cover nearly 200 million potential subscribers by the end of 2014.
Not at all. They are focusing on the video feature of FaceTime, which they don't offer. And because they don't offer their own video chat service the quoted rule doesn't apply.
That the iPhone has it built in would only regulate Apple, not AT&T.
I don't understand your point about Skype in this regard, though. Could you elaborate?
Skype presents an even greater threat to AT&T's revenue than FaceTime ever could.
So does this mean if I bring my own iPhone not purchased or subsidized by ATT that FaceTime would work over cellular with an unlimited contract? Seems that the logic used in the AT&T post would require it.
Nope. Because they are blocking it based in the data plan you have, not if you got a subsidy.
Comments
You are right
If FaceTime could do audio only, which would be easier on the network, then it would be Clear that AT&T blocked similar service.
My Guess is that Apple never offer this iChat Feature because of the talk they had with AT&T before the first iPhone.
It is inevitable that one day, Cellular provider will become Internet provider and VOiP will get real Quality of Service (QOS), comparable, i hope to current voice technology.
BUT, as a result, they will loose all the money they make on voice, and SMS, and since they hate making less money, the will rise the price of the MB...
So at the end, we will have what we want but will pay a lot more for it.
Now that is a way to attempt to argue within the quoted rules, pity the initial case wasn't as smart and went with just focusing on Skype etc
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
AT&T has decided to block the built-in Safari, Weather, Stocks, Maps, Notes, Photos, Calendar, Camera, App Store, iTunes, and Reminders apps on the iPhone unless users pay for their more expensive data plan.
When questioned as to the legality of this move, they replied, "Because we can."
In other news, the government to continue to ignore AT&T.
With Verizon they allow you to keep your current plan until you decide to upgrade your phone. Then you have no choice but to move ot the Share Everything Plan. The nice thing about this plan is they allow you to use your device as a hotspot without an extra charge. The shared data at least for me works out better because I use next to no cellular data because I am over wifi most of the day. So that was a wasted 2GB.
ATT plan is more expensive. However either one is like dealing with the Mafia.
Originally Posted by extremeskater
With Verizon they allow you to keep your current plan until you decide to upgrade your phone. Then you have no choice but to move ot the Share Everything Plan.
Unless you never had data to begin with! Then you can stay on a phone without data.
In exactly one month, and if everything actually does work as it's supposed to, our plan is to drop Verizon unceremoniously and get three iPhones on Straight Talk. I have to make absolutely certain of a few things before we do that, otherwise we'll just stick with our seven year old phones on Verizon.
Curious that the (very) Appleionado doesn't grasp that...
Originally Posted by Blitz1
Makes me think of Apple not allowing apps that have the same function as built in apps.
Then maybe reading the article will make you think something different (correct).
The problem with you AT&T, is that, you don't understand how business works. Companies like Apple and others are trying to provide customers with innovative products and services. You on the other hand are trying to take advantage of loop holes within the law system to rip off customers pockets.
AT&T, it doesn't matter that what you are doing is within the law, IT PISSES CUSTOMERS OFF!!
YOU ARE ACTUALLY GIVING PEOPLE A REASON (FEEDING THEIR DESIRE) TO USE OTHER CARRIERS. YOU ARE GIVING T-MOBILE AND SPRINT FREE ADVERTISING. You are giving ME (your customer for years) many reasons to change carrier.
On the long run you will see that customers care more about how much they pay than for how much coverage you have, just because you are trying to limit these services like Facetime through 3G.
What does the app have to do with pushing people to sign up for there MORE EXPENSIVE shared CRAP! Why does changing the plan to the shared plan suddenly make it OK to use FaceTime?
There are millions of apps out there, does that mean every time I put an app on my iPhone I have to change my plan?
What actually changes?
I'll tell you, absolutely NOTHING!!
AT&T B.S.!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleJim
With the iPhone available with many carriers, time to jump ship from AT&T. It's all about profit and exec. salary rather than improving the customer experience. Anyone know the innovation example, a washing machine that also washes potatoes. An innovative company would have invented one that does it all. Time for Apple to become a carrier and blow these MOJOS out of the water. RIM couldn't keep up, Nokia hanging by a thread, Samsung had to copy and now the time is right to morph into a carrier. Jobs would have thought of it, make it all VOIP. Snooze, you lose.
Agree 100%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Unless you never had data to begin with! Then you can stay on a phone without data.
In exactly one month, and if everything actually does work as it's supposed to, our plan is to drop Verizon unceremoniously and get three iPhones on Straight Talk. I have to make absolutely certain of a few things before we do that, otherwise we'll just stick with our seven year old phones on Verizon.
Just did exactly that last weekend .
Ported the verizon number to a GSM iPhone on Straighttalk.
45 a Month for unlimited calling/text/web vs 85 for verizon.
Originally Posted by Rind
Just did exactly that last weekend .
Ported the verizon number to a GSM iPhone on Straighttalk.
45 a Month for unlimited calling/text/web vs 85 for verizon.
For three iPhones, unlimited talk, text (which we will never use for any reason), and 2GB data TOTAL, Verizon would charge us $200 a month.
It's $120 a month for unlimited talk, text, and 6GB data TOTAL (2GB each) on Straight Talk.
And more than that, Straight Talk with infinity/infinity/6GB is LESS MONEY than our current Verizon plan, 1000/250/0GB!
We can no longer justify staying with those morons.
Here's my list of concerns, though…
Network: It's AT&T, right? Or do they supplement with other GSM providers, too? What sort of coverage/quality/dropped calls?
Data: It works on an iPhone, right? At what speeds? I know they don't have LTE access yet and we won't be able to use LTE on our LTE iPhones, sure, but is it at least HSPA+? There's probably no HSPA+ service through AT&T where we live though, anyway…
Can other users thereof comment specifically on that? I know jragosta has been able to do it, but he had trouble that I forget about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quad 68030
Just go here for net neutrality.
http://www.fcc.gov/complaints
I just posted a complaint stating something like this:
"AT&T is forcing me to buy a more expensive plan to use FaceTime video-call service over cellular connection. AT&T is blocking FaceTime on my existing Data plan despite the fact that I pay monthly for a 3GB data allotment and only intend to use FaceTime within the limits of my plan. I believe this is a violation of the network neutrality rules"
Guys, I encourage all of you to do the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Jailbreaking is a time consuming pain in the ass though.
Only a geek wants to spend that much time fooling around with the guts of their phone and boot-loaders and such and you have to give up on having all the latest stuff as you are always one release behind.
Huh?? The jailbreak I have for 5.1.1 took less than 10 minutes and was all automated. Did it for a friend who wanted to use a 3GS on Boost Mobile.
Not necessarily.
Skype won the issue in part because it has or at least had, a text feature and an audio call feature both of which directly compete with AT&T offerings. That you had to download it is moot.
The key feature of FaceTime is video chatting which AT&T doesn't offer, so the rule isn't immediately applicable. that is the issue with the argument. Positioning it as an later native to making voice calls plus a data is data argument might win but 'you allow Skype' not really
I would love for this to become a reality. The problem is that under their terms of service you cannot file a class action suit. You can only go through an arbitration service of their choosing. Personally, I find this to be the most heinous part of all of this. For U.S. customers, AT&T and basically every other carrier out there are trying to limit and remove your right to challenge them in court. This is your 7th Amendment:
AT&T and all the others out there do not want to go to court with you, or even a class of you. They just want to control your data.
Not at all. They are focusing on the video feature of FaceTime, which they don't offer. And because they don't offer their own video chat service the quoted rule doesn't apply.
That the iPhone has it built in would only regulate Apple, not AT&T.
And unfortunately for us it is a legit legal argument under this particular rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Atlanta, Dallas/Fort Worth, Houston, Kansas City, San Antonio and Waco already have Sprint LTE. Apparently, Sprint expects to cover nearly 200 million potential subscribers by the end of 2014.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Actually they are plannig to cover 250-270M by the end of 2013 and it will also be LTE-A
Originally Posted by charlituna
Not at all. They are focusing on the video feature of FaceTime, which they don't offer. And because they don't offer their own video chat service the quoted rule doesn't apply.
That the iPhone has it built in would only regulate Apple, not AT&T.
I don't understand your point about Skype in this regard, though. Could you elaborate?
Skype presents an even greater threat to AT&T's revenue than FaceTime ever could.
Nope. Because they are blocking it based in the data plan you have, not if you got a subsidy.