crazy hot is relative. If the iMacs where too hot we would have a constant flow of reports of them overheating. As it is right now only a few seem to have trouble.
As to right to left fans heat rises, if you want to remove it efficiently you don't work against that. On top of that Ivy Bridge, SSDs and a host of other technologies would lower the heat profile. It would not be impossible to actuall see a thinner and cooler iMac.
I agree- but as the iMacs get older and dust accumulates inside, it will run hotter, and hotter. It's more of a time bomb. I have 2 27"s and love them- but they could cook an egg on top (both of them). :-) True about Ivy Bridge and SSDs... the big enemy is the GPU. But keep in mind- Retina would make the GPU work harder, and also have a hotter screen (more pixels)- so it's kind of a wash I'd think.
Retina would be easier in an iMac assuming a longer viewing distance.
True
It isn't speed that keeps me from upgrading to an iMac. I rather hate it's anti service designs. I wouldn't even consider an iMac unless serviceability was addressed.
That being said we have yet to hear any Mini rumors or even replacements for the Mini. This is a big concern as they need something other than iMac on the desktop.
Applecare is dirt cheap for an iMac- don't let that hold you back. iMacs are awesome!
So just like last time... 1 GB standard and 2 GB BTO? Sounds about right.
Yeah that I don't understand. Apple had a reputation for being popular among graphic designers and such. Have they always been strict on video memory?
Apple at times has been down right stupid when it comes to video memory. To say their configurations can be frustrating at times is an understatement.
As to your prior question about video memory, the trick here is understanding the needs of the software you expect to run. For the vast majority of users 1GB is likely to be enough. If you are into OpenCL or more advanced apps that leverage the GPU 1GB might not be enough.
There might be other considerations if Retina does come to the iMac. More pixels mean more memory is required. However it isn't a linear increase.
When buying a machine and looking at video card options consider how long you expect to keep the machine and the software you use. From there you should be able to determine if the investment is worthwhile. In the end the longer you expect to keep the machine the more important it is to configure for greater GPU performance.
About 30-35% of Apple's customers buy desktops. The amount of that portion of users watching DVDs on their computers is probably very small because you can't really sit comfortably in front of a desktop computer. Optical drives can be noisy too, I'd rather not have drive noise interrupting a movie.
There are many good ways to enjoy a movie at your computer. Sometimes you just want a background fill to keep your mind occupied while you cruise the net, hack some software or design your latest and greatest.
There is no reduction of choice though. You aren't forced to use a digital option. You just don't have to pay for a drive you might never use.
I don't understand some of these arguements either. While idbe the first to agree that dropping the optical from an iMac shouldn't be high priority, Apple has demonstrated the ability to make far better computers when given design flexibility.
Interesting because that isn't what I took away from that sight. For many users AMDs solution is much better. I looked with great interest at some of the CAD numbers and was stunned that NVidia was that far behind. Yeah thermally AMD is a bit behind but then again this is in reality a different generation processor. I'd much rather give up a few watts in power to get a better desktop solution.
1GB of memory should be enough at the current resolution. Apple is always tight with video memory for some reason.
Needed Video RAM depends upon what you do with the machine and how your software uses it. lf the iMac is a long term investment though, I'd have to think long and hard about only 1GB of RAM in an iMac. The reality is every year more load is put on GPUs by the system and applications.
Did'ja ever notice that there aren't too many (read: any at all) external floppy drives around anymore?
Did'ja ever wonder why that might be?
That's right; your problem is wanting that in the first place.
Your point on floppy drives makes no sense. Floppies were replaced by a choice of better technologies which offered everything floppies did and much more.
The current digital movie options are in some key ways hugely inferior to optical, and that isn't changing anytime soon. I can buy a box set of DVDs for next to nothing, rip them into nice DRM free files, then stream them through PLEX to any device on my network. How does that compare with a hugely expensive DRM infested iTunes purchase? Or a low quality "HD" Netflix stream which requires a constant connection to work...
I just don't see any sane reason to remove the optical drive from a DESKTOP. Portability is a total no issue for obvious reasons, as is weight. Cost is also essentially a non issue as BD drives cost so little now, and DVD drives are pretty much free with Corn Flakes.
It seems that for some it's ideologically driven, and that the evidence simply doesn't support that stance. At least not yet, maybe it will in 5-10 years.
How does that compare with a hugely expensive DRM infested iTunes purchase? Or a low quality "HD" Netflix stream which requires a constant connection to work...
Buy an Apple TV, stream to any television in your house. Digital files are identical in operation to DVDs, and you don't have to have a CLOSET full of them (because you DO have to keep them) to have a closet full of them. A 4TB 3.5" drive can hold ~500 1080p movies right now. In a few months the same capacity drive will be able to hold ~1,000 1080p movies.
I just don't see any sane reason to remove the optical drive from a DESKTOP. Portability is a total no issue for obvious reasons, as is weight. Cost is also essentially a non issue as BD drives cost so little now, and DVD drives are pretty much free with Corn Flakes.
Cost isn't a non-issue. Apple has to design the optical drive into the form factor and make it part of the milling process. They have to choose what batch of drives to put in and order in bulk from a supplier. They have to adjust the internal layout so the connector cables aren't say crossing a heat pipe. They have to do QA testing on the drives to make sure they aren't broken. They have to allow for training staff to repair/replace broken optical drives. They have to setup information guides on how to use the drives. They have to put eject keys on their keyboards. They have to offer firmware upgrades for their drives.
Those are some reasons why it's $100 for you to buy one with the machine but $30 to buy one from a store. Apple is saving you money by leaving it out and it frees up a lot of their resources to make the rest of the computer better.
You will notice that their machines are gradually being stripped down to the bare essentials. The iPad is probably the best example of hardware that has no superfluous features and the Retina Macbook Pro is the next closest thing on the Mac side.
Think of it from the point of view of Apple shipping a printer with every Mac. We all need to print something at some point but nobody would expect Apple to ship every computer with a printer. They are just putting optical drives in the same category of non-essential components.
1GB of memory should be enough at the current resolution. Apple is always tight with video memory for some reason.
Current imacs can be configured with 2 in their top configurations. Going backward there would be odd. It's also not just about display resolution. 256MB could refresh the desktop.
No, you do it by removing the drive. This has worked for every technology Apple has removed from devices.
So feel free to continue to use last century's technology while Apple moves everyone else forward.
BR and DVD will be around for some time yet and there are some markets where they have to accommodate these users. I'm in one. We only started producing BR this spring and still work with DVD, too. Many of our customers don't own computers nor iPads; they have 50" plasma TVs at home connected to a BR or DVD player. When Japan went completely digital TV last year, lots of people still had VCRs; I know several who still do, by choice.
This is not to say that Apple should keep the OD in the iMac. Companies that need BR or whatever will by definition have an external (or internal for MacPro) burner or even a duplicator like the Bravo Pro (if the ink weren't so darned expensive we'd have one). Third parties will support the needs for a while.
Apple needs to push forward, but that doesn't mean that everyone will move with them at the same pace, and it certainly doesn't make those people any lesser for it.
Apple needs to push forward, but that doesn't mean that everyone will move with them at the same pace, and it certainly doesn't make those people any lesser for it.
No, certainly not. They absolutely have the right and choice to continue using old technology while new stuff comes out. It's the whining about the fact that there IS new stuff and how they will eventually have to change that is bothersome.
No, certainly not. They absolutely have the right and choice to continue using old technology while new stuff comes out. It's the whining about the fact that there IS new stuff and how they will eventually have to change that is bothersome.
This I have to agree with. I would be surprised to find some of these people with beta video systems still running in their basements.
On a side note Apple is apparently releasing iPhone 5 in ten days. That is good news for many but how many here think we will see a Mini or iMac update on or before that date? Obviously I want to see what is happening with the Mini but remain hopeful that Apple will pull their head out and build an iMac that I'd want to purchase.
…how many here think we will see a Mini or iMac update on or before that date? Obviously I want to see what is happening with the Mini but remain hopeful that Apple will pull their head out and build an iMac that I'd want to purchase.
I don't think Apple gives a crap about its computers anymore. We'd be lucky to see a new computer before the end of the year at this point. And iLife and iWork? HA!
I don't think Apple gives a crap about its computers anymore. We'd be lucky to see a new computer before the end of the year at this point. And iLife and iWork? HA!
This is once again more crap. They care about anything which generates significant profit. It just doesn't carry as much weight. The people claiming they would just walk on several billion a year (there are some on here) lack a functional thought process.
Not to post too off topic but it's a good thing football season starts tomorrow so I'll have something else to focus on besides waiting for the Apple Store to update.
Not to post too off topic but it's a good thing football season starts tomorrow so I'll have something else to focus on besides waiting for the Apple Store to update.
I spend way to much time here myself. The best thing to do is to find other interests, build a CNC machine or something. Or go for a hike.
Besides admit to the idea that watching football on a retina display could be very interesting to say the least.
There are a few options I have to do though not enough on the internet which is where I spend a lot of my time. Taking a walk/hike is a good idea though not with this hot weather. I prefer the cold.
Comments
Yeah that I don't understand. Apple had a reputation for being popular among graphic designers and such. Have they always been strict on video memory?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
crazy hot is relative. If the iMacs where too hot we would have a constant flow of reports of them overheating. As it is right now only a few seem to have trouble.
As to right to left fans heat rises, if you want to remove it efficiently you don't work against that. On top of that Ivy Bridge, SSDs and a host of other technologies would lower the heat profile. It would not be impossible to actuall see a thinner and cooler iMac.
I agree- but as the iMacs get older and dust accumulates inside, it will run hotter, and hotter. It's more of a time bomb. I have 2 27"s and love them- but they could cook an egg on top (both of them). :-) True about Ivy Bridge and SSDs... the big enemy is the GPU. But keep in mind- Retina would make the GPU work harder, and also have a hotter screen (more pixels)- so it's kind of a wash I'd think.
Retina would be easier in an iMac assuming a longer viewing distance.
True
It isn't speed that keeps me from upgrading to an iMac. I rather hate it's anti service designs. I wouldn't even consider an iMac unless serviceability was addressed.
That being said we have yet to hear any Mini rumors or even replacements for the Mini. This is a big concern as they need something other than iMac on the desktop.
Applecare is dirt cheap for an iMac- don't let that hold you back. iMacs are awesome!
Apple at times has been down right stupid when it comes to video memory. To say their configurations can be frustrating at times is an understatement.
As to your prior question about video memory, the trick here is understanding the needs of the software you expect to run. For the vast majority of users 1GB is likely to be enough. If you are into OpenCL or more advanced apps that leverage the GPU 1GB might not be enough.
There might be other considerations if Retina does come to the iMac. More pixels mean more memory is required. However it isn't a linear increase.
When buying a machine and looking at video card options consider how long you expect to keep the machine and the software you use. From there you should be able to determine if the investment is worthwhile. In the end the longer you expect to keep the machine the more important it is to configure for greater GPU performance.
Needed Video RAM depends upon what you do with the machine and how your software uses it. lf the iMac is a long term investment though, I'd have to think long and hard about only 1GB of RAM in an iMac. The reality is every year more load is put on GPUs by the system and applications.
Edit: It is 4 GB. I would love to see Apple employ that option in the BTO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Did'ja ever notice that there aren't too many (read: any at all) external floppy drives around anymore?
Did'ja ever wonder why that might be?
That's right; your problem is wanting that in the first place.
Your point on floppy drives makes no sense. Floppies were replaced by a choice of better technologies which offered everything floppies did and much more.
The current digital movie options are in some key ways hugely inferior to optical, and that isn't changing anytime soon. I can buy a box set of DVDs for next to nothing, rip them into nice DRM free files, then stream them through PLEX to any device on my network. How does that compare with a hugely expensive DRM infested iTunes purchase? Or a low quality "HD" Netflix stream which requires a constant connection to work...
I just don't see any sane reason to remove the optical drive from a DESKTOP. Portability is a total no issue for obvious reasons, as is weight. Cost is also essentially a non issue as BD drives cost so little now, and DVD drives are pretty much free with Corn Flakes.
It seems that for some it's ideologically driven, and that the evidence simply doesn't support that stance. At least not yet, maybe it will in 5-10 years.
Originally Posted by kotatsu
How does that compare with a hugely expensive DRM infested iTunes purchase? Or a low quality "HD" Netflix stream which requires a constant connection to work...
Buy an Apple TV, stream to any television in your house. Digital files are identical in operation to DVDs, and you don't have to have a CLOSET full of them (because you DO have to keep them) to have a closet full of them. A 4TB 3.5" drive can hold ~500 1080p movies right now. In a few months the same capacity drive will be able to hold ~1,000 1080p movies.
Cost isn't a non-issue. Apple has to design the optical drive into the form factor and make it part of the milling process. They have to choose what batch of drives to put in and order in bulk from a supplier. They have to adjust the internal layout so the connector cables aren't say crossing a heat pipe. They have to do QA testing on the drives to make sure they aren't broken. They have to allow for training staff to repair/replace broken optical drives. They have to setup information guides on how to use the drives. They have to put eject keys on their keyboards. They have to offer firmware upgrades for their drives.
Those are some reasons why it's $100 for you to buy one with the machine but $30 to buy one from a store. Apple is saving you money by leaving it out and it frees up a lot of their resources to make the rest of the computer better.
You will notice that their machines are gradually being stripped down to the bare essentials. The iPad is probably the best example of hardware that has no superfluous features and the Retina Macbook Pro is the next closest thing on the Mac side.
Think of it from the point of view of Apple shipping a printer with every Mac. We all need to print something at some point but nobody would expect Apple to ship every computer with a printer. They are just putting optical drives in the same category of non-essential components.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
The GTX 680M looks like a good choice. They can also use the 7970M but from this site, it looks like the 680M would be a better choice:
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-GeForce-GTX-680M-vs-Radeon-HD-7970M.77110.0.html
1GB of memory should be enough at the current resolution. Apple is always tight with video memory for some reason.
Current imacs can be configured with 2 in their top configurations. Going backward there would be odd. It's also not just about display resolution. 256MB could refresh the desktop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No, you do it by removing the drive. This has worked for every technology Apple has removed from devices.
So feel free to continue to use last century's technology while Apple moves everyone else forward.
BR and DVD will be around for some time yet and there are some markets where they have to accommodate these users. I'm in one. We only started producing BR this spring and still work with DVD, too. Many of our customers don't own computers nor iPads; they have 50" plasma TVs at home connected to a BR or DVD player. When Japan went completely digital TV last year, lots of people still had VCRs; I know several who still do, by choice.
This is not to say that Apple should keep the OD in the iMac. Companies that need BR or whatever will by definition have an external (or internal for MacPro) burner or even a duplicator like the Bravo Pro (if the ink weren't so darned expensive we'd have one). Third parties will support the needs for a while.
Apple needs to push forward, but that doesn't mean that everyone will move with them at the same pace, and it certainly doesn't make those people any lesser for it.
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
Apple needs to push forward, but that doesn't mean that everyone will move with them at the same pace, and it certainly doesn't make those people any lesser for it.
No, certainly not. They absolutely have the right and choice to continue using old technology while new stuff comes out. It's the whining about the fact that there IS new stuff and how they will eventually have to change that is bothersome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No, certainly not. They absolutely have the right and choice to continue using old technology while new stuff comes out. It's the whining about the fact that there IS new stuff and how they will eventually have to change that is bothersome.
This I have to agree with. I would be surprised to find some of these people with beta video systems still running in their basements.
On a side note Apple is apparently releasing iPhone 5 in ten days. That is good news for many but how many here think we will see a Mini or iMac update on or before that date? Obviously I want to see what is happening with the Mini but remain hopeful that Apple will pull their head out and build an iMac that I'd want to purchase.
Originally Posted by wizard69
…how many here think we will see a Mini or iMac update on or before that date? Obviously I want to see what is happening with the Mini but remain hopeful that Apple will pull their head out and build an iMac that I'd want to purchase.
I don't think Apple gives a crap about its computers anymore. We'd be lucky to see a new computer before the end of the year at this point. And iLife and iWork? HA!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I don't think Apple gives a crap about its computers anymore. We'd be lucky to see a new computer before the end of the year at this point. And iLife and iWork? HA!
This is once again more crap. They care about anything which generates significant profit. It just doesn't carry as much weight. The people claiming they would just walk on several billion a year (there are some on here) lack a functional thought process.
I spend way to much time here myself. The best thing to do is to find other interests, build a CNC machine or something. Or go for a hike.
Besides admit to the idea that watching football on a retina display could be very interesting to say the least.