Yep. They seem to be playing the printer/ink but forgetting that to make profit they need to have higher prices on that ink.
Feels to me like this is still the same loss leader game they were doing with the Kindle and with ebooks. To lure folks to the store to shop for more pricey things that will make them a profit.
The big issue is that Amazon's "ink" fits everybody else's "printer" so why but their printer that only works with their ink?
You always hear about Apple's "walled garden" but outside of theming the device (which just slows it down), everybody else's services work on the iPad. On the iPad I can consume Amazon content, B&N content, Google content, Hulu, Netflix, etc, etc. Heck even Microsoft has a healthy selection of Apps for the iPad including SkyDrive, Bing, OneNote & even Lync.
So yes, Amazon's Kindle Fires are indeed cheaper but not when you consider nothing is exclusive with them and you have to deal with ads on your lockscreen and the truly "walled garden" that is the Amazon Marketplace. If it ain't there, too bad or you can try to sideload apps which is horrible and just promotes piracy since you would need an actual Android device to purchase apps from Google to begin with.
No thanks, I'll pay extra and actually have a choice where I get my content from. Thanks Apple.
Signed,
An ex-Kindle Fire user. (But also an almost exclusive Amazon Prime shopper and future Kindle Paperwhite owner.)
I disagree. I can't see Microsoft selling anything at a loss. They certainly didn't try to buy market share with the Zune. I believe they'll try to be competiive, but they won't sell below cost. I suspect the Surface RT will sell for the same $400 as the iPad 2.
Which they may see as a mistake these days (?).
Regardless... whether it's 200.- or 500.-... makes no difference. It will not compete. I firmly believe MS knows this and is absolutely ready and waiting for that outcome.
As much as people would like to believe, and certainly their outward appearances don't help them with the "Duck-footed Ballmer"... MS is NOT dumb. Actually, neither is Ballmer, regardless of whether he is a Hollwood-casting "Used-Car Salesman" dream boy.
200$ for lte acid 50$ on top of that for the data. With 50$ more you can buy 2 wifi, it makes no sense. But the 299$ is a huge treat to the iPad IMHO, the price disparity is huge. I have bought the top of the line iPad 1 and 3 for 900$ and I can't see me doing the same again with this tablets having comparablet hardware so cheap. I can pay a premium but not 200-300$
Wall Street sees it differently than you. Amazon's share price seems to reflect Wall Street's confidence that Apple is going to suffer at Amazon's hands. Besides Wall Street has infinitely more faith in Jeff Bezos than Tim Cook. A company doesn't get a P/E of 316 for no reason at all. Same with Google. WS also expects the Nexus 7 will take market share from iPads and that's why Google's share price is leaving Apple's in the dust. Wall Street believes that all Apple products will be commoditized by far less expensive Android products, both tablets and smartphones. It's plain to see that WS is betting heavily against Apple.
Just ran across a BGR post that says all the Fires are ad supported. That could explain the pricing and the cheap network. Would that affect the decision of 'regular folk' sales??
Just ran across a BGR post that says all the Fires are ad supported. That could explain the pricing and the cheap network. Would that affect the decision of 'regular folk' sales??
In reality, almost the only success Amazon has had with the kindle Fire, is that it has successfully convinced the media that it has had success with the kindle Fire.
I doubt that even that is a real success, since it's all anecdotal.
Perhaps I missed it, and they finally put out some numbers: have they ever provided audited figures in how many they've sold? Does anyone know? (I am not talking about analyst/consulting firm estimates).
Indeed, are there actual numbers for even the supposedly mega-successful Kindle?
I certainly wonder how in the world Amazon has managed to have a P/E on their stock of 312. If they were trading at the same P/E as Apple, they'd collapse from $255 a share to about $13.
Truly one of the strangest stocks out there and a great demonstration of how manipulated some stocks are. FB is clearly losing its air (should be at $7-8?), and to be fair AMZN really should too. Alternately Apple should be trading at $13,000 a share, but that's assuming fairness.
This, I agree with totally.
Everyone seems to be valuing it for its revenue (and revenue potential), but not actual earnings or cash flows.
It may be a matter of time, but we have abundant empirical evidence on how that ends.
The problem with all the cheap tablet are they're cheaply made. There's 2 fandroids in my house. 1 with an Acer tablet and 1 with a kindle. After months of hearing how Android tablets were so much better than my second hand eBay bought iPad 2 both of them died. Now I'm the only one with a tablet that works. Can't return them as they were bought from overseas, cost outweighs value
I don't agree that the Kindle Fires make the Surface DOA. The Kindles, including the Fires, are pure consumption tablets. The Surface is being pitched as a productivity tablet (hence the keyboard and likely a version of Office). This dichotomy allows Apple to continue pitching the iPad as a more versatile option than both.
Good analysis. Personally, I hate companies like Amazon, they personify everything that is bad about capitalism, so your post actually cheered me up substantially by reminding me how fragile they are as a company and how likely it is that they will ultimately fail and be replaced by something that we can only hope is a bit better.
MS is going to sacrifice RT... and then point to how bad "CESes" are, while pumping up WinPro tablets from their OEMs. That's after deciding it "wasn't a good idea" to compete with them.
...
I disagree. Microsoft is pushing the new WinRT programming model hard. These are the APIs that produce Metro-style apps. They believe this differentiation is their key to long term survival. Surface RT is pretty much WinRT only - minus perhaps the Office 13 apps. Surface RT may be their price leader, but it's also their long term goal. All Metro, all the time. Surface Pro (x86) is for those that can't yet let go of the past. I don't think the Surface Pro will sell well. As soon as people see how poorly their old x86 apps run on the touch-based tablet, they'll realize that the tablet is the future, not the past. They'll want tablet-centric apps - which the RT can provide cheaper.
Apple will continue to rock the tablet world, but the introduction of new, useful, inexpensive tablets is nothing but awesome. B&N will now have to respond, as will Google. And eventually Apple. People knock Amazon for their approach, but this is misguided. When tablets become low cost commodities - and that day will be here pretty soon - the value will need to be derived from content for the manufacturers to stay whole. I can imagine a day where Amazon simply gives you a tablet with the purchase of $150 worth of books or something. Bezos is no Bozo.
In the Fire HD marketing materials, I notice two things which might be a concern for Amazon…
First, they are showing the Fire HD lock and/or home screens *without* the ads that WILL be there if you buy one (and to me, that smacks slightly of false advertising, or at the least misrepresenting the 'product experience').
Second, in the image used for this article, the interface looks an awful lot like Apple's patented "cover flow"… is that a lawsuit waiting to happen, or did a licensing deal happen somewhere?
In the Fire HD marketing materials, I notice two things which might be a concern for Amazon…
First, they are showing the Fire HD lock and/or home screens *without* the ads that WILL be there if you buy one (and to me, that smacks slightly of false advertising, or at the least misrepresenting the 'product experience').
Second, in the image used for this article, the interface looks an awful lot like Apple's patented "cover flow"… is that a lawsuit waiting to happen, or did a licensing deal happen somewhere?
1) That a still image of the lock/home screens? And is it possible that the image was shot without the ads being present, like in a rotation?
2) I'd like to think Amazon is less likely to take that risk than HTC or Samsung. Apple and Amazon do seem to have a certain level of respect for each other and Amazon is an American company. Apple licensed 1-Click from Amazon for their iTS. I think they still license it.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
Yep. They seem to be playing the printer/ink but forgetting that to make profit they need to have higher prices on that ink.
Feels to me like this is still the same loss leader game they were doing with the Kindle and with ebooks. To lure folks to the store to shop for more pricey things that will make them a profit.
The big issue is that Amazon's "ink" fits everybody else's "printer" so why but their printer that only works with their ink?
You always hear about Apple's "walled garden" but outside of theming the device (which just slows it down), everybody else's services work on the iPad. On the iPad I can consume Amazon content, B&N content, Google content, Hulu, Netflix, etc, etc. Heck even Microsoft has a healthy selection of Apps for the iPad including SkyDrive, Bing, OneNote & even Lync.
So yes, Amazon's Kindle Fires are indeed cheaper but not when you consider nothing is exclusive with them and you have to deal with ads on your lockscreen and the truly "walled garden" that is the Amazon Marketplace. If it ain't there, too bad or you can try to sideload apps which is horrible and just promotes piracy since you would need an actual Android device to purchase apps from Google to begin with.
No thanks, I'll pay extra and actually have a choice where I get my content from. Thanks Apple.
Signed,
An ex-Kindle Fire user. (But also an almost exclusive Amazon Prime shopper and future Kindle Paperwhite owner.)
They "hinted" at prices. They said, "comparable to other devices on the market". They were clever in that they didn't say which ones.
Speculation was that the WinRT would be at or about iPad pricing ~400.-.. and the WinPro at Ultrabook prices ~1000.-.
Which they may see as a mistake these days (?).
Regardless... whether it's 200.- or 500.-... makes no difference. It will not compete. I firmly believe MS knows this and is absolutely ready and waiting for that outcome.
As much as people would like to believe, and certainly their outward appearances don't help them with the "Duck-footed Ballmer"... MS is NOT dumb. Actually, neither is Ballmer, regardless of whether he is a Hollwood-casting "Used-Car Salesman" dream boy.
Exhibit A: Here's a "good enough guy" for ya.
Wall Street sees it differently than you. Amazon's share price seems to reflect Wall Street's confidence that Apple is going to suffer at Amazon's hands. Besides Wall Street has infinitely more faith in Jeff Bezos than Tim Cook. A company doesn't get a P/E of 316 for no reason at all. Same with Google. WS also expects the Nexus 7 will take market share from iPads and that's why Google's share price is leaving Apple's in the dust. Wall Street believes that all Apple products will be commoditized by far less expensive Android products, both tablets and smartphones. It's plain to see that WS is betting heavily against Apple.
Just ran across a BGR post that says all the Fires are ad supported. That could explain the pricing and the cheap network. Would that affect the decision of 'regular folk' sales??
http://www.bgr.com/2012/09/06/new-amazon-kindle-fire-tablets-advertistements/
Amazon stated You can choose to to get the ads on the settings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
In reality, almost the only success Amazon has had with the kindle Fire, is that it has successfully convinced the media that it has had success with the kindle Fire.
I doubt that even that is a real success, since it's all anecdotal.
Perhaps I missed it, and they finally put out some numbers: have they ever provided audited figures in how many they've sold? Does anyone know? (I am not talking about analyst/consulting firm estimates).
Indeed, are there actual numbers for even the supposedly mega-successful Kindle?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep
I certainly wonder how in the world Amazon has managed to have a P/E on their stock of 312. If they were trading at the same P/E as Apple, they'd collapse from $255 a share to about $13.
Truly one of the strangest stocks out there and a great demonstration of how manipulated some stocks are. FB is clearly losing its air (should be at $7-8?), and to be fair AMZN really should too. Alternately Apple should be trading at $13,000 a share, but that's assuming fairness.
This, I agree with totally.
Everyone seems to be valuing it for its revenue (and revenue potential), but not actual earnings or cash flows.
It may be a matter of time, but we have abundant empirical evidence on how that ends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoadm
The problem with all the cheap tablet are they're cheaply made. There's 2 fandroids in my house. 1 with an Acer tablet and 1 with a kindle. After months of hearing how Android tablets were so much better than my second hand eBay bought iPad 2 both of them died. Now I'm the only one with a tablet that works. Can't return them as they were bought from overseas, cost outweighs value
For a second I thought the fandroids died...
I don't agree that the Kindle Fires make the Surface DOA. The Kindles, including the Fires, are pure consumption tablets. The Surface is being pitched as a productivity tablet (hence the keyboard and likely a version of Office). This dichotomy allows Apple to continue pitching the iPad as a more versatile option than both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShAdOwXPR
Amazon stated You can choose to to get the ads on the settings.
Amazon said, "Oh, shit!, can we get right back to you on that?!?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Good analysis. Personally, I hate companies like Amazon, they personify everything that is bad about capitalism, so your post actually cheered me up substantially by reminding me how fragile they are as a company and how likely it is that they will ultimately fail and be replaced by something that we can only hope is a bit better.
As a consumer, I love companies like Amazon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc
...
MS is going to sacrifice RT... and then point to how bad "CESes" are, while pumping up WinPro tablets from their OEMs. That's after deciding it "wasn't a good idea" to compete with them.
...
I disagree. Microsoft is pushing the new WinRT programming model hard. These are the APIs that produce Metro-style apps. They believe this differentiation is their key to long term survival. Surface RT is pretty much WinRT only - minus perhaps the Office 13 apps. Surface RT may be their price leader, but it's also their long term goal. All Metro, all the time. Surface Pro (x86) is for those that can't yet let go of the past. I don't think the Surface Pro will sell well. As soon as people see how poorly their old x86 apps run on the touch-based tablet, they'll realize that the tablet is the future, not the past. They'll want tablet-centric apps - which the RT can provide cheaper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon
As a consumer, I love companies like Amazon.
You shouldn't, if the business model is inherently unsustainable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxSampleXX
Apple will continue to rock the tablet world, but the introduction of new, useful, inexpensive tablets is nothing but awesome. B&N will now have to respond, as will Google. And eventually Apple. People knock Amazon for their approach, but this is misguided. When tablets become low cost commodities - and that day will be here pretty soon - the value will need to be derived from content for the manufacturers to stay whole. I can imagine a day where Amazon simply gives you a tablet with the purchase of $150 worth of books or something. Bezos is no Bozo.
Well said and right on!!
Originally Posted by r00fus
I have absolutely no idea how Amazon is going to foot that bill, or how they got AT
The OS-level advertisements, I imagine.
Rebadging?
First, they are showing the Fire HD lock and/or home screens *without* the ads that WILL be there if you buy one (and to me, that smacks slightly of false advertising, or at the least misrepresenting the 'product experience').
Second, in the image used for this article, the interface looks an awful lot like Apple's patented "cover flow"… is that a lawsuit waiting to happen, or did a licensing deal happen somewhere?
1) That a still image of the lock/home screens? And is it possible that the image was shot without the ads being present, like in a rotation?
2) I'd like to think Amazon is less likely to take that risk than HTC or Samsung. Apple and Amazon do seem to have a certain level of respect for each other and Amazon is an American company. Apple licensed 1-Click from Amazon for their iTS. I think they still license it.