Well that exposes me for the solid state storage greenhorn I am, dunnit? I was thinking about the chips used in standard size (and Apple's stick) computer SSDs. They'll have to be crazy expensive (and suck way too much power) for smaller devices to use.
Exactly. That's why Apple isn't always the first adopter of new tech, preferring instead to wait until it can be sold at reasonable prices. This of course doesn't apply to everything; rMBP.
Well that exposes me for the solid state storage greenhorn I am, dunnit? I was thinking about the chips used in standard size (and Apple's stick) computer SSDs. They'll have to be crazy expensive (and suck way too much power) for smaller devices to use.
Yeah, SSDs are made up of NAND and then use a controller much in the same way RAID woks with multiple HDDs to speed up the overall read/write far beyond what any single HDD could do.
Now Apple does typically does use two NAND chips per iOS-based iDevice so I don't see why they technically couldn't use a controller to nearly double the speed of the storage access. There are surely plenty of reason why this hasn't been done yet — size, cost abs power consumption cone to mind — but it is technically possible.
In the case of GSM, it's the opposite of what you allege. A few more regulations made the cellular market considerably more competitive. In the US, you had to buy your device from your carrier, and you couldn't take said device to a different carrier should the relationship go south, you had to buy a new device. In the EU, you just get a new SIM card and you're on a different carrier.
To pretend the US carrier market isn't an oligopoly is to live in a fantasy, I think it's clear the US carrier market is worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Forget your ideological views for a moment and look at the facts. In the 10-15 years after GSM was mandated in Europe, Europe had the cheapest and best cellular networks in the world (bar maybe Japan). It also became the home of the most successful companies in the industry - Nokia, Ericsson, Vodafone, etc. It took the US a long time to catch up.
It certainly wasn't an oligopoly. GSM is an open standard. Anyone could license it and contribute to it. Competition was fierce from all sides of the industry.
What exactly are you optimizing for? The ability to switch carriers or good data coverage in highly populated areas? Competition was fierce within the confines of a poorly chosen standard, not between the competing technologies. I'm sure it was good for manufacturers who toed the line and did what they were told. And, really, who doesn't love a Three-Year Plan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Do you think that it's wrong that the US has a standard for power sockets? How dare the bureaucrats and judges tell us what to do!
I don't think it's wrong for the US to decide their own standards for power (sockets/voltage/frequency/grounding), but I would object to being forced into using the European "standard" power sockets. Especially when the only thing that really matters for compatibility in the smartphone space is the ability to provide a nominal 5 volt source in a USB A socket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
It's a trade-off. Long term competition vs. short-term technical gain. Qualcomm's version of CDMA was technically superior to GSM but the costs were terrible once Qualcomm had locked you in. That cost was passed onto the customer.
In the US, Sprint/Clearwire went with WiMAX and most of the other US Telecoms went with LTE. The better technology ultimately won out.
Imagine if some Belgian bureaucrats had picked WiMAX as the mandated 4G technology? Or if a panel of Swiss judges had banned the LTE standard from using the 700 GHz spectrum available in the US (at considerable effort) because the EU wanted to make use of 800 GHz instead?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
But what was the price that the US paid for CDMA? High prices, poor service, hidden fees and long contracts. Was a slight technical edge worth all of the downsides?
Tell me how that gets corrected when governments mandate the standard?
Why couldnt this new port accept micro usb to just charge an iphone? Htc phones had a special port that accepted mini usb cables to charge and sync but also accepted special htc cables that also allowed video out and other cables.
If htc could do that why wouldnt apple? It would satisfy the Eu.
Why couldnt this new port accept micro usb to just charge an iphone? Htc phones had a special port that accepted mini usb cables to charge and sync but also accepted special htc cables that also allowed video out and other cables.
If htc could do that why wouldnt apple? It would satisfy the Eu.
1) Apple may have done that but the images we've gotten so of the connector and port say otherwise. Notice that micro-USB pins are inside the connector whilst Apple's rumoured connector has the pins on the outside. If you look the port interface tere appears to be no tongue in the device to accept mico-USB.
2) Apple has been in accordance with this new law since they started putting USB-A on their EPS about 8 years ago.
I guess you missed the part where Apple's forbidding others from manufacturing this new cable type, as well as accessories to adapt to it.
Thank you for making it easy. Derp.
Still posting your usual cesp I see.
First off, it's a "rumor" about Apple being the only supplier of adaptors or cables. Secondly, you're lying about "accessories". There's no way Apple isn't going to let all the companies that make docks, speakers and other accessories make them work with the new connector. That's one if the best features if iDevices - the wide range of accessories made to work with them because they have the same port in the same location.
If you look closely you can see there are indentations on the sides of the plug which I presume interlock with some sort of spring loaded mechanism that snaps in to securely fasten it to the device.
wow, this Brand new Original Power Management IC for iphone 4 so perfect and hot now, free shipping+$21.42, don't miss:
How many times will people keeping stating this as fact before they realize it's not true? Is it just ignorance or a willful attempt to make false statements?
As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. The agreement was established in June 2009 and signed by Apple, Emblaze Mobile, Huawei Technologies, LGE, Motorola Mobility, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research In Motion (RIM), Samsung, Sony Ericsson, TCT Mobile (ALCATEL), Texas Instruments and Atmel (IP/09/1049).
<p class="A___35__20_Normal" style="margin-top:0cm;margin-bottom:.212cm;text-align:justify;font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:11px;line-height:17px;">As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. The agreement was established in June 2009 and signed by Apple, Emblaze Mobile, Huawei Technologies, LGE, Motorola Mobility, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research In Motion (RIM), Samsung, Sony Ericsson, TCT Mobile (ALCATEL), Texas Instruments and Atmel (IP/09/1049).</p>
So yes it is a fact.
And what does the mandate require of companies? Does it say they need to put micro-USB on their devices or does it say they can use a proprietary connector so long as they use USB-A on their EPS? Seriously, how many fucking times does it need to be stated before you people actually read the very simple shit that has been laid out before a dozen or more times? And who the **** said that Apple wasn't part of the group?
Seriously, how many fucking times does it need to be stated before you people actually read the very simple shit that has been laid out before a dozen or more times?
I'm contemplating making this "rule 3" on my list, but I'll have to come up with a more generic way of saying it.
As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. The agreement was established in June 2009 and signed by Apple, Emblaze Mobile, Huawei Technologies, LGE, Motorola Mobility, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research In Motion (RIM), Samsung, Sony Ericsson, TCT Mobile (ALCATEL), Texas Instruments and Atmel (IP/09/1049).
So yes it is a fact.
A little selective editing goes a long way, doesn't it? That standard is actually for chargers, not micro-USB connectors. The title to the press release even says, "Commission welcomes new EU standards for common mobile phone charger". Apple never would've signed off on it otherwise.
Here's the full presser, for the TL;DR crowd's benefit (bold is mine, for emphasis):
Quote:
Originally Posted by EU Bureaucrats
Commission welcomes new EU standards for common mobile phone charger
Following a mandate from the European Commission, the European Standardisation Bodies CEN-CENELEC and ETSI have now made available the harmonised standards needed for the manufacture of data-enabled mobile phones compatible with a new common charger. This is the most recent development in the process towards a global common mobile phone charger initiated by the European Commission. It follows the June 2009 agreement of fourteen leading mobile phone producers to harmonise chargers for data-enabled mobile phones (i.e. that can be connected to a computer) sold in the European Union.
European Commission Vice-President Antonio Tajani, Commissioner for Industry and Entrepreneurship, said: "I am very happy that the European Standardisation Bodies have met our request to develop within a short space of time the technical standards necessary for a common mobile phone charger based on the work done by industry. Now it is time for industry to show its commitment to sell mobile phones for the new charger. The common charger will make life easier for consumers, reduce waste and benefit businesses. It is a true win-win situation."
Incompatibility of chargers for mobile phones is not only a major inconvenience for users, but also a considerable environmental problem. Users who want to change their mobile phones must usually acquire a new charger and dispose of the old one, even if it is in good condition. In response to citizens' demand for a common charger, the Commission invited manufacturers to agree on a technical solution making compatible the chargers of different brands.
As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. The agreement was established in June 2009 and signed by Apple, Emblaze Mobile, Huawei Technologies, LGE, Motorola Mobility, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research In Motion (RIM), Samsung, Sony Ericsson, TCT Mobile (ALCATEL), Texas Instruments and Atmel (IP/09/1049).
The Commission then issued a mandate to the European Standardisation Organisations CEN-CENELEC and ETSI in December 2009, requesting the development of European standards for the common charger. The two organisations have now delivered. The standards allow for interoperability, i.e. the common charger is compatible with data-enabled mobile telephones of different brands. They also take account of safety risks and electro-magnetic emissions and ensure that common chargers have sufficient immunity to external interference.
The European Commission expects the first common chargers and mobile phones compatible with the new standards to reach the European market in the first months of 2011.
To no one in particular; I love the European slant that assumes the world automatically waits with bated breath to adopt EU standards, when all they needed to do was establish that charger units support a USB A socket (which most have for the past few years).
No Japanese carrier ever used GSM. A domestic standard called PDC was used instead, which was arguably technically superior to GSM (more efficient use of airwave spectrum, less power consumption on handset side) but was never seriously marketed overseas for various political reasons. Quality of service in Japan has always been good, with high availability and a lot of innovative services, but was never what you would call "cheap."
Introducing a new tech to Japan is easier by orders of magnitude compared to the US. For example, think about the actual length of fiber required to reach every home in Japan. Now do the same for the US. Big difference, eh? The same applies to cell tower coverage, since there is so much more land to cover.
First off, it's a "rumor" about Apple being the only supplier of adaptors or cables. Secondly, you're lying about "accessories". There's no way Apple isn't going to let all the companies that make docks, speakers and other accessories make them work with the new connector. That's one if the best features if iDevices - the wide range of accessories made to work with them because they have the same port in the same location.
Yup. I posted only facts, and Shidell counters it with "derp" and rumors.
Comments
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I've never seen such NAND. Can you show me?
Well that exposes me for the solid state storage greenhorn I am, dunnit?
NEWS FLASH! Samsung to announce new 9-pin dock connector, another innovation from heaven...
Exactly. That's why Apple isn't always the first adopter of new tech, preferring instead to wait until it can be sold at reasonable prices. This of course doesn't apply to everything; rMBP.
Yeah, SSDs are made up of NAND and then use a controller much in the same way RAID woks with multiple HDDs to speed up the overall read/write far beyond what any single HDD could do.
Now Apple does typically does use two NAND chips per iOS-based iDevice so I don't see why they technically couldn't use a controller to nearly double the speed of the storage access. There are surely plenty of reason why this hasn't been done yet — size, cost abs power consumption cone to mind — but it is technically possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
In the case of GSM, it's the opposite of what you allege. A few more regulations made the cellular market considerably more competitive. In the US, you had to buy your device from your carrier, and you couldn't take said device to a different carrier should the relationship go south, you had to buy a new device. In the EU, you just get a new SIM card and you're on a different carrier.
To pretend the US carrier market isn't an oligopoly is to live in a fantasy, I think it's clear the US carrier market is worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Forget your ideological views for a moment and look at the facts. In the 10-15 years after GSM was mandated in Europe, Europe had the cheapest and best cellular networks in the world (bar maybe Japan). It also became the home of the most successful companies in the industry - Nokia, Ericsson, Vodafone, etc. It took the US a long time to catch up.
It certainly wasn't an oligopoly. GSM is an open standard. Anyone could license it and contribute to it. Competition was fierce from all sides of the industry.
What exactly are you optimizing for? The ability to switch carriers or good data coverage in highly populated areas? Competition was fierce within the confines of a poorly chosen standard, not between the competing technologies. I'm sure it was good for manufacturers who toed the line and did what they were told. And, really, who doesn't love a Three-Year Plan?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
Do you think that it's wrong that the US has a standard for power sockets? How dare the bureaucrats and judges tell us what to do!
I don't think it's wrong for the US to decide their own standards for power (sockets/voltage/frequency/grounding), but I would object to being forced into using the European "standard" power sockets. Especially when the only thing that really matters for compatibility in the smartphone space is the ability to provide a nominal 5 volt source in a USB A socket.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
It's a trade-off. Long term competition vs. short-term technical gain. Qualcomm's version of CDMA was technically superior to GSM but the costs were terrible once Qualcomm had locked you in. That cost was passed onto the customer.
In the US, Sprint/Clearwire went with WiMAX and most of the other US Telecoms went with LTE. The better technology ultimately won out.
Imagine if some Belgian bureaucrats had picked WiMAX as the mandated 4G technology? Or if a panel of Swiss judges had banned the LTE standard from using the 700 GHz spectrum available in the US (at considerable effort) because the EU wanted to make use of 800 GHz instead?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL
But what was the price that the US paid for CDMA? High prices, poor service, hidden fees and long contracts. Was a slight technical edge worth all of the downsides?
Tell me how that gets corrected when governments mandate the standard?
If htc could do that why wouldnt apple? It would satisfy the Eu.
1) Apple may have done that but the images we've gotten so of the connector and port say otherwise. Notice that micro-USB pins are inside the connector whilst Apple's rumoured connector has the pins on the outside. If you look the port interface tere appears to be no tongue in the device to accept mico-USB.
2) Apple has been in accordance with this new law since they started putting USB-A on their EPS about 8 years ago.
First off, it's a "rumor" about Apple being the only supplier of adaptors or cables. Secondly, you're lying about "accessories". There's no way Apple isn't going to let all the companies that make docks, speakers and other accessories make them work with the new connector. That's one if the best features if iDevices - the wide range of accessories made to work with them because they have the same port in the same location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
If you look closely you can see there are indentations on the sides of the plug which I presume interlock with some sort of spring loaded mechanism that snaps in to securely fasten it to the device.
wow, this Brand new Original Power Management IC for iphone 4 so perfect and hot now, free shipping+$21.42, don't miss:
How many times will people keeping stating this as fact before they realize it's not true? Is it just ignorance or a willful attempt to make false statements?
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/10/1776 says
As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. The agreement was established in June 2009 and signed by Apple, Emblaze Mobile, Huawei Technologies, LGE, Motorola Mobility, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research In Motion (RIM), Samsung, Sony Ericsson, TCT Mobile (ALCATEL), Texas Instruments and Atmel (IP/09/1049).
So yes it is a fact.
Originally Posted by Andreas Fink
So yes it is a fact.
Nope. Fact in that they agreed to provide an adapter. Not fact that they agreed it to be the standard for phones.
And what does the mandate require of companies? Does it say they need to put micro-USB on their devices or does it say they can use a proprietary connector so long as they use USB-A on their EPS? Seriously, how many fucking times does it need to be stated before you people actually read the very simple shit that has been laid out before a dozen or more times? And who the **** said that Apple wasn't part of the group?
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Seriously, how many fucking times does it need to be stated before you people actually read the very simple shit that has been laid out before a dozen or more times?
I'm contemplating making this "rule 3" on my list, but I'll have to come up with a more generic way of saying it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andreas Fink
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/10/1776 says
As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. The agreement was established in June 2009 and signed by Apple, Emblaze Mobile, Huawei Technologies, LGE, Motorola Mobility, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research In Motion (RIM), Samsung, Sony Ericsson, TCT Mobile (ALCATEL), Texas Instruments and Atmel (IP/09/1049).
So yes it is a fact.
A little selective editing goes a long way, doesn't it? That standard is actually for chargers, not micro-USB connectors. The title to the press release even says, "Commission welcomes new EU standards for common mobile phone charger". Apple never would've signed off on it otherwise.
Here's the full presser, for the TL;DR crowd's benefit (bold is mine, for emphasis):
Quote:
Originally Posted by EU Bureaucrats
Commission welcomes new EU standards for common mobile phone charger
Following a mandate from the European Commission, the European Standardisation Bodies CEN-CENELEC and ETSI have now made available the harmonised standards needed for the manufacture of data-enabled mobile phones compatible with a new common charger. This is the most recent development in the process towards a global common mobile phone charger initiated by the European Commission. It follows the June 2009 agreement of fourteen leading mobile phone producers to harmonise chargers for data-enabled mobile phones (i.e. that can be connected to a computer) sold in the European Union.
European Commission Vice-President Antonio Tajani, Commissioner for Industry and Entrepreneurship, said: "I am very happy that the European Standardisation Bodies have met our request to develop within a short space of time the technical standards necessary for a common mobile phone charger based on the work done by industry. Now it is time for industry to show its commitment to sell mobile phones for the new charger. The common charger will make life easier for consumers, reduce waste and benefit businesses. It is a true win-win situation."
Incompatibility of chargers for mobile phones is not only a major inconvenience for users, but also a considerable environmental problem. Users who want to change their mobile phones must usually acquire a new charger and dispose of the old one, even if it is in good condition. In response to citizens' demand for a common charger, the Commission invited manufacturers to agree on a technical solution making compatible the chargers of different brands.
As a result, world leading mobile phone producers committed themselves to ensure compatibility of data-enabled mobile phones, expected to be predominant in the market within two years, on the basis of the Micro-USB connector. The agreement was established in June 2009 and signed by Apple, Emblaze Mobile, Huawei Technologies, LGE, Motorola Mobility, NEC, Nokia, Qualcomm, Research In Motion (RIM), Samsung, Sony Ericsson, TCT Mobile (ALCATEL), Texas Instruments and Atmel (IP/09/1049).
The Commission then issued a mandate to the European Standardisation Organisations CEN-CENELEC and ETSI in December 2009, requesting the development of European standards for the common charger. The two organisations have now delivered. The standards allow for interoperability, i.e. the common charger is compatible with data-enabled mobile telephones of different brands. They also take account of safety risks and electro-magnetic emissions and ensure that common chargers have sufficient immunity to external interference.
The European Commission expects the first common chargers and mobile phones compatible with the new standards to reach the European market in the first months of 2011.
To no one in particular; I love the European slant that assumes the world automatically waits with bated breath to adopt EU standards, when all they needed to do was establish that charger units support a USB A socket (which most have for the past few years).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Japan, which uses both CDMA and GSM.
No Japanese carrier ever used GSM. A domestic standard called PDC was used instead, which was arguably technically superior to GSM (more efficient use of airwave spectrum, less power consumption on handset side) but was never seriously marketed overseas for various political reasons. Quality of service in Japan has always been good, with high availability and a lot of innovative services, but was never what you would call "cheap."
Introducing a new tech to Japan is easier by orders of magnitude compared to the US. For example, think about the actual length of fiber required to reach every home in Japan. Now do the same for the US. Big difference, eh? The same applies to cell tower coverage, since there is so much more land to cover.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee
Still posting your usual cesp I see.
First off, it's a "rumor" about Apple being the only supplier of adaptors or cables. Secondly, you're lying about "accessories". There's no way Apple isn't going to let all the companies that make docks, speakers and other accessories make them work with the new connector. That's one if the best features if iDevices - the wide range of accessories made to work with them because they have the same port in the same location.
Yup. I posted only facts, and Shidell counters it with "derp" and rumors.
Apple store: Lightning to Micro USB adapter
/thread