Why should I give them a few months or a year? When I'm buying the iPhone I have to pay right there, I can't say, well, give me a few months or a year and I'll give you the money! I f..king paid for the f..king phone and now they have ruined the maps!
What a bunch of bull. What did you have on your 3g before google Maps? ios 6 maps would be a God send if Google maps and Nokia maps dindt exist on Mobile. But they do. The point is not that ios 6 maps suck, because they don't, they just suck compared to the competition, not only that the previous version use to be the competition.
This is exactly right. Apple has downgraded functionality, yet they are advertising it as if it were an upgrade.
The new [iOS 6] Apple Maps is [mostly] more robust than the old [pre iOS 6] Apple Maps app.
Some of the features that Google currently offers on its Android Maps app are not available on either version of Appe's iOS Maps app.
Even the old [pre iOS 6] Apple Maps had bugs and bad data -- but it is [mostly] superior to the 1.0 iOS 6 Maps app.
Apple uses the Open Street Map to format and present map data.
Apple contracts with 3rd-arties to supply map data.
Likely, these third party datasets are not compatible with Open Street Map. This means the data has to be converted in order to generate and present Open Street Maps. This takes some time.
I dont get all the complaints. Here in Switzerland they work great so far and Google has a really nice web app, which you can add to the home screen and its just as good if not better than the native app was. Im sure the maps app will be really good once its been updated a few times. I for one dont think i have lost an app, but gained one. Best of both worlds..
Ah, see, Dick, that doesn't matter. It should have been perfect immediately. There's no excuse for not being perfect. :rolleyes:
no one said it had to be perfect no map can be perfect. But we are not talking about perfection here, we are talking about putting towns in the wrong spot and missing half of cities and being unusable in many parts outside the U.S. Apple screwed up, it was rushed, just admit it.
How do you get, from those images, that "the only legitimate complaints... are the accuracy and clarity of the satellite and flyover imagery"? Do you not even see, e.g., that entire towns are gone?
Which is why I mentioned that you can fix it yourself.
Setting aside the fact that I don't think I should have to be Apple's free cartographer - how does lowly me "fix" Apple's decision not to use different emphasis for the "A" routes versus the "M" routes in the U.K., for example? Or how do I "fix" Apple's decision not to show building outlines and names on university campuses? These are not situations where "Oops, you mislabelled one of the most famous towns in the U.K., but no worries I've 'fixed' it for you"; these are situations where Apple has made a decision at an information-presentation level, that no single crowd-sourcing user can "fix".
A map is not an atlas, it's whole point is to get you from one place to another. In that regard eliminating information that isn't important for that task improves usability. That is why zooming in is required for detailed information. It is no different than a conventional paper map where detailed blocks are used to deliver more information on specific areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFreeman
You are indeed spot on! I think the problem is that the Apple maps are similar to the Openstreetmaps in terms of rendering. You will not get detailed information unless you zoom in completely. This may introduce less clutter but at the same time you lose valuable information on maps which defeats the whole point of a map!
Do you honestly think that that Google image of Warwick and Stratford was cluttered? In one glance I can see city names, village names, and 3 levels of roadways, with labels. For someone on the go -- maybe behind the wheel, or rushing to get to a bus stop, etc., that "at-a-glance" versus having to zoom zoom zoom (and therefore also scroll, scroll, scroll to see the same larger area) -- makes a great difference.
Just wish others would do the same. No one ever said Google Maps would get better when it was launched. No one ever said there were any problems with Google Maps. It never got any locations wrong, nor was it missing any cities.
Oh, wait (read the comments). Did some things right. Did some things wrong. Apparently they never should have released a mapping application at all, since it wasn't perfect at inception. It was certainly prettier than Yahoo! Maps, just as Apple's maps are prettier than Google's. But it wasn't always correct. So apparently that means "it never should have been released" or "should have been held back until it was better".
I'm not saying you can't call out mistakes. I'm giving a solution to fix some of them, for heaven's sake. I'm explicitly saying you CAN complain about some things, as that's entirely Apple's fault. What, you think Google doesn't have locations with clouds obscuring the view? Should Apple have waited until there were no clouds anywhere before releasing any of the data?
What online solution was there before Google Maps? MapQuest or something rinkydink like that? The tech world moves a lot faster these days and there's a lot more competition compared to 2005 (and see, there was my Bullet Point #4, DEFLECT!)
Today, Google Maps is the Gold Standard and it works well. Apple Maps doesn't come close to providing the same experience. This isn't something like Siri. There was nothing on the iPhone comparable to Siri beforehand, so people are more forgiving. But with Maps, Apple has replaced a full-featured product with something that comes up short in many aspects.
Before rolling out a new, less functional maps app to devices that people use daily, why not first test out the app in a less-volatile area first so users aren't negatively affected:
1) maps.apple.com or something like that. Tie it in as an iCloud service and allow users to poke around, add suggestions/fixes etc. That way it's completely voluntary and an unfinished product isn't forced on users.
2) Rollout a standalone Maps app in the iTunes store for free. Same as above, but users can get the mobile experience, while still pointing out problems.
Again, these are voluntary actions that would still provide Apple with a wealth of data. Then once Apple feels that it can offer a comparable experience to Google Maps, bake it fully into the OS.
Is anyone really surprised Apple maps 1.0 is not equal to Google Maps 6.0?
Give it a few months.. maybe even a year. With user feedback and resources focused on the Apple maps.. they will eventually catch up. I have no doubt a company with a $100 Billion in the bank.. can make a great map app.
A voice of reason...... But it's not attention grabbing. Common sense is not always common..
This is exactly right. Apple has downgraded functionality, yet they are advertising it as if it were an upgrade.
That's two problems right there.
As a whole, I felt like iOS 6 was a downgrade. It felt like nothing more than Apple removing Google features from iOS such as YouTube and Google Maps. I would have been more satisfied with an iOS 5.2 that included an updated Safari. Yes, iOS 6 introduced other changes as well, but most of those changes felt half-baked and were of little interest to me.
There's no need to fix it at the source. OSM has excellent data for University Park, PA. For whatever reason Apple screwed it up.
Yeah, I'm noticing this myself.
I laughed out loud when I noticed that Bancroft Ontario was placed in the middle of a field. However, OSM has no problem locating it properly.
The town of Whitney Ontario cannot be found and does not appear in Maps if you manually scroll to the location. It's right there in OSM.
My own house cannot be found in Maps when I look for "18 odell ajax". OSM finds it just fine. Adding the ' allows Maps to find it, but it places the marker in the wrong location. Once again, OSM does it perfectly.
This is definitely an Apple problem, not a OSM one. This is bad.
My only one real problem with Apple Maps is this: Yes, it is a downgrade compared to Google Maps. Less accurate POIs, less information, inferior search. But I wouldn't mind all of this if I could have AT LEAST got the turn-by-turn directions! But no, I have an iPhone 4, so no turn-by-turn. This sucks big time. If I get a downgrade, please give me at least this one thing that is new and an improvement over the previous solution!
I just love how no one seems to be talking about the massive problems Google Maps has right now in iOS5. As I've detailed before it's nearly a daily occurance that Google Maps can't find something I'm looking for or sends me to another state if not another country. Google Maps IS NOT THAT GOOD. It works pretty decently but if it's your only solution and you have no idea what to do when it says "No Results found" then you're totally screwed. I'm not apoligizing for iMaps but to diefy google maps is completly ridiculous. In my testing (using the same exact things I have problems with in google maps) iMaps has gotten 90% of those right. There we go, massive scienfitic data, iMaps 90% more accurate but what would make news is hte 10% because people expect perfection even though what they have right now is far from it.
It felt like nothing more than Apple removing Google features from iOS such as YouTube and Google Maps.
But on the other hand, Google's new iOS YouTube app is a million times better than the old one, so we're not exactly missing anything. We got rid of the old crusty s**t, and get a new, better app out of it. I say it's a Win-Win
They should have waited until it was on par with the competition.
Apple hubris got in the way. They messed up they should of waited. Google Maps is not just about a piece of data is takes man power and lots of it. Unless apple wants to hire drivers to drive around for 5+ years than imaps will always be behind google maps.
Street view not only collects pictures but road signs and business names. So next time google maps tells you that tine little street in x town is a one way lane, thank the street view car that drove and picked up that sign.
One more area where Apple maps are screwed, google maps knows everything that google search knows, they share the same database. While apple maps is connected to crappy yelp search, google maps is powered by google search. So when google maps knows that x building that use to be "casa bonita" is now "petes deli" its because Google maps crawls website just like google search does. That in combination of google places is why no one beats google on updated business listings.
Of and street view don't get me street view. Which has now turned into:
Business view
Education building view
Government building view
Museum view
Park view
Ancient structure view
Google maps data puts every other map/geo product to shame.
Google Maps is the holy grail and is increasing at a rate Apple can't match.
Google map maker? Don't get me started.
There are two places where google can't be touch when it comes to sheer data points. Youtube and Maps. And the Map with the most data wins. Apple you screwed up.
In DFW it's better in all those things so I'm not sure what to make of that. Apple either really cares about DFW, Google doesn't give two sh!ts about DFW or (most likely) it's on a case by case basis...
I think Apple has no choice. Google is not adding new features to Google Maps on iOS since iOS 1.0. The so-called Stree View or Public Transit has never been available on iOS.
the APP is a major improvement, now with turn by turn (I never used the maps much before because they lacked this feture), Smoother in every way, Nice/clean interface, vectors, 3D. I like the turn by turn interface better than on my wifes HTC android phone. Siri integration, Really nice POI details presentation( better than googles) overall- awesome!
the DATA is a major step back, Google has THE BEST MAP DATA IN THE WORLD, it took them a decade to compile, Apple does not. Simple as that. The only other decent one is Nokia, which i'm sure wasn't going to license to Apple (as they are a major competitor).
Hopefully the database can be built quicky.
To the people complaining of "Apple taking something away" in my mind (now, granted, i'm not 100% sure on the contract negotiation between Apple and Google)... it wasn't Apple's to give or take... It was Google's maps, and Apple's license ran out! what were they going to do? Pirate google maps?
Google's own license terms prevent Turn by Turn, and many other features that are considered "standard" on smartphones nowadays; Apple was falling behind being partnered with a competitor that was preventing them from offering the features that their customers wanted. This had to change, even if it meant partnering with a smaller, "lower rung" player so at least Apple can impliment these much overdue features.
I KNEW how this was going play out. Since Ios6 Maps were announced, I KNEW there was going to be
That is a terribly silly argument. I am sure you know that. Please stop.
It's not a silly argument. The opposite of his argument is that you should never attempt to replace the "industry standard" unless you already surpass it. Google Maps certainly didn't surpass Mapquest or paper maps when they first released it. It only developed to where it is now, with lot's of incorrect information and still a few glaring errors after years of user feedback. But, according to the logic of, "That is a terribly silly argument," they should never have released Google Maps, after all, they were years behind the competition when they did. (And the, "it's not 2007," argument is just a variation on the preceding.)
So, now, everyone considers Google Maps the "industry standard", despite the fact that it is still imperfect, mainly because it's what they've gotten used to using. According to the, "That is a terribly silly argument," logic, no one should ever try to produce another mapping service unless, on the first day of it's release it's better than Google Maps in all respects. An impossible task in mapping, so everyone should just give up.
It takes time to do big things and big things often have some rough edges at first. Apple is definitely trying to do some big things with Siri and Maps. There will be some pain at the beginning, but it's ridiculous to think that the rough edges won't be smoothed out, and in the case of Maps, probably fairly quickly. So, one can carp about Maps, Lightening connectors, floppy drives, or one can realize that change is difficult, but if it takes things in a better direction, it's worth the difficulty.
No one knows the details, but what if the alternative to Apple's Maps was no maps. What if the alternative was ads in your face whenever you wanted to use maps. What if the alternative was that Apple had to share user data with Google.
Clearly, even if none of those was entirely the case, the alternative was that Google was able to control an important part of the user experience on Apple's products. Keeping Google Maps, at whatever price, might have been the easy solution, but taking control of your own destiny is the courageous path, and I have no doubt that Apple's Maps, which are already quite good, will quickly grow to be a service that a great many people will feel they can't live without, and which will provide a better user experience than Google Maps would have.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by NelsonX
Why should I give them a few months or a year? When I'm buying the iPhone I have to pay right there, I can't say, well, give me a few months or a year and I'll give you the money! I f..king paid for the f..king phone and now they have ruined the maps!so return the phone, geez.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techstalker
What a bunch of bull. What did you have on your 3g before google Maps? ios 6 maps would be a God send if Google maps and Nokia maps dindt exist on Mobile. But they do. The point is not that ios 6 maps suck, because they don't, they just suck compared to the competition, not only that the previous version use to be the competition.
This is exactly right. Apple has downgraded functionality, yet they are advertising it as if it were an upgrade.
That's two problems right there.
I actually laughed out loud. Instant classic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Ah, see, Dick, that doesn't matter. It should have been perfect immediately. There's no excuse for not being perfect. :rolleyes:
no one said it had to be perfect no map can be perfect. But we are not talking about perfection here, we are talking about putting towns in the wrong spot and missing half of cities and being unusable in many parts outside the U.S. Apple screwed up, it was rushed, just admit it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Originally Posted by Sierrajeff
How do you get, from those images, that "the only legitimate complaints... are the accuracy and clarity of the satellite and flyover imagery"? Do you not even see, e.g., that entire towns are gone?
Which is why I mentioned that you can fix it yourself.
Setting aside the fact that I don't think I should have to be Apple's free cartographer - how does lowly me "fix" Apple's decision not to use different emphasis for the "A" routes versus the "M" routes in the U.K., for example? Or how do I "fix" Apple's decision not to show building outlines and names on university campuses? These are not situations where "Oops, you mislabelled one of the most famous towns in the U.K., but no worries I've 'fixed' it for you"; these are situations where Apple has made a decision at an information-presentation level, that no single crowd-sourcing user can "fix".
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
A map is not an atlas, it's whole point is to get you from one place to another. In that regard eliminating information that isn't important for that task improves usability. That is why zooming in is required for detailed information. It is no different than a conventional paper map where detailed blocks are used to deliver more information on specific areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrFreeman
You are indeed spot on! I think the problem is that the Apple maps are similar to the Openstreetmaps in terms of rendering. You will not get detailed information unless you zoom in completely. This may introduce less clutter but at the same time you lose valuable information on maps which defeats the whole point of a map!
Do you honestly think that that Google image of Warwick and Stratford was cluttered? In one glance I can see city names, village names, and 3 levels of roadways, with labels. For someone on the go -- maybe behind the wheel, or rushing to get to a bus stop, etc., that "at-a-glance" versus having to zoom zoom zoom (and therefore also scroll, scroll, scroll to see the same larger area) -- makes a great difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Just wish others would do the same. No one ever said Google Maps would get better when it was launched. No one ever said there were any problems with Google Maps. It never got any locations wrong, nor was it missing any cities.
Oh, wait (read the comments). Did some things right. Did some things wrong. Apparently they never should have released a mapping application at all, since it wasn't perfect at inception. It was certainly prettier than Yahoo! Maps, just as Apple's maps are prettier than Google's. But it wasn't always correct. So apparently that means "it never should have been released" or "should have been held back until it was better".
I'm not saying you can't call out mistakes. I'm giving a solution to fix some of them, for heaven's sake. I'm explicitly saying you CAN complain about some things, as that's entirely Apple's fault. What, you think Google doesn't have locations with clouds obscuring the view? Should Apple have waited until there were no clouds anywhere before releasing any of the data?
What online solution was there before Google Maps? MapQuest or something rinkydink like that? The tech world moves a lot faster these days and there's a lot more competition compared to 2005 (and see, there was my Bullet Point #4, DEFLECT!
Today, Google Maps is the Gold Standard and it works well. Apple Maps doesn't come close to providing the same experience. This isn't something like Siri. There was nothing on the iPhone comparable to Siri beforehand, so people are more forgiving. But with Maps, Apple has replaced a full-featured product with something that comes up short in many aspects.
Before rolling out a new, less functional maps app to devices that people use daily, why not first test out the app in a less-volatile area first so users aren't negatively affected:
1) maps.apple.com or something like that. Tie it in as an iCloud service and allow users to poke around, add suggestions/fixes etc. That way it's completely voluntary and an unfinished product isn't forced on users.
2) Rollout a standalone Maps app in the iTunes store for free. Same as above, but users can get the mobile experience, while still pointing out problems.
Again, these are voluntary actions that would still provide Apple with a wealth of data. Then once Apple feels that it can offer a comparable experience to Google Maps, bake it fully into the OS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCK75
This is exactly right. Apple has downgraded functionality, yet they are advertising it as if it were an upgrade.
That's two problems right there.
As a whole, I felt like iOS 6 was a downgrade. It felt like nothing more than Apple removing Google features from iOS such as YouTube and Google Maps. I would have been more satisfied with an iOS 5.2 that included an updated Safari. Yes, iOS 6 introduced other changes as well, but most of those changes felt half-baked and were of little interest to me.
Quote:
There's no need to fix it at the source. OSM has excellent data for University Park, PA. For whatever reason Apple screwed it up.
Yeah, I'm noticing this myself.
I laughed out loud when I noticed that Bancroft Ontario was placed in the middle of a field. However, OSM has no problem locating it properly.
The town of Whitney Ontario cannot be found and does not appear in Maps if you manually scroll to the location. It's right there in OSM.
My own house cannot be found in Maps when I look for "18 odell ajax". OSM finds it just fine. Adding the ' allows Maps to find it, but it places the marker in the wrong location. Once again, OSM does it perfectly.
This is definitely an Apple problem, not a OSM one. This is bad.
I just love how no one seems to be talking about the massive problems Google Maps has right now in iOS5. As I've detailed before it's nearly a daily occurance that Google Maps can't find something I'm looking for or sends me to another state if not another country. Google Maps IS NOT THAT GOOD. It works pretty decently but if it's your only solution and you have no idea what to do when it says "No Results found" then you're totally screwed. I'm not apoligizing for iMaps but to diefy google maps is completly ridiculous. In my testing (using the same exact things I have problems with in google maps) iMaps has gotten 90% of those right. There we go, massive scienfitic data, iMaps 90% more accurate but what would make news is hte 10% because people expect perfection even though what they have right now is far from it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox
It felt like nothing more than Apple removing Google features from iOS such as YouTube and Google Maps.
But on the other hand, Google's new iOS YouTube app is a million times better than the old one, so we're not exactly missing anything. We got rid of the old crusty s**t, and get a new, better app out of it. I say it's a Win-Win
This.
In DFW it's better in all those things so I'm not sure what to make of that. Apple either really cares about DFW, Google doesn't give two sh!ts about DFW or (most likely) it's on a case by case basis...
Seems OK to me. Currently in Palm Springs. Checked out my home in UK, that seems OK as well.
More than OK, the interface is a vast improvement IMO, and I love the smooth vector roads.
No transit, but the google one was pretty inaccurate anyway.
In Thailand/Samui next week, will see how it fares there. Not too good according to a previous poster.
My opinion so far:
the APP is a major improvement, now with turn by turn (I never used the maps much before because they lacked this feture), Smoother in every way, Nice/clean interface, vectors, 3D. I like the turn by turn interface better than on my wifes HTC android phone. Siri integration, Really nice POI details presentation( better than googles) overall- awesome!
the DATA is a major step back, Google has THE BEST MAP DATA IN THE WORLD, it took them a decade to compile, Apple does not. Simple as that. The only other decent one is Nokia, which i'm sure wasn't going to license to Apple (as they are a major competitor).
Hopefully the database can be built quicky.
To the people complaining of "Apple taking something away" in my mind (now, granted, i'm not 100% sure on the contract negotiation between Apple and Google)... it wasn't Apple's to give or take... It was Google's maps, and Apple's license ran out! what were they going to do? Pirate google maps?
Google's own license terms prevent Turn by Turn, and many other features that are considered "standard" on smartphones nowadays; Apple was falling behind being partnered with a competitor that was preventing them from offering the features that their customers wanted. This had to change, even if it meant partnering with a smaller, "lower rung" player so at least Apple can impliment these much overdue features.
I KNEW how this was going play out. Since Ios6 Maps were announced, I KNEW there was going to be
1) Improvement in the interface
2) Downgrade in map data.
No two ways about it....
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
That is a terribly silly argument. I am sure you know that. Please stop.
It's not a silly argument. The opposite of his argument is that you should never attempt to replace the "industry standard" unless you already surpass it. Google Maps certainly didn't surpass Mapquest or paper maps when they first released it. It only developed to where it is now, with lot's of incorrect information and still a few glaring errors after years of user feedback. But, according to the logic of, "That is a terribly silly argument," they should never have released Google Maps, after all, they were years behind the competition when they did. (And the, "it's not 2007," argument is just a variation on the preceding.)
So, now, everyone considers Google Maps the "industry standard", despite the fact that it is still imperfect, mainly because it's what they've gotten used to using. According to the, "That is a terribly silly argument," logic, no one should ever try to produce another mapping service unless, on the first day of it's release it's better than Google Maps in all respects. An impossible task in mapping, so everyone should just give up.
It takes time to do big things and big things often have some rough edges at first. Apple is definitely trying to do some big things with Siri and Maps. There will be some pain at the beginning, but it's ridiculous to think that the rough edges won't be smoothed out, and in the case of Maps, probably fairly quickly. So, one can carp about Maps, Lightening connectors, floppy drives, or one can realize that change is difficult, but if it takes things in a better direction, it's worth the difficulty.
No one knows the details, but what if the alternative to Apple's Maps was no maps. What if the alternative was ads in your face whenever you wanted to use maps. What if the alternative was that Apple had to share user data with Google.
Clearly, even if none of those was entirely the case, the alternative was that Google was able to control an important part of the user experience on Apple's products. Keeping Google Maps, at whatever price, might have been the easy solution, but taking control of your own destiny is the courageous path, and I have no doubt that Apple's Maps, which are already quite good, will quickly grow to be a service that a great many people will feel they can't live without, and which will provide a better user experience than Google Maps would have.