1, 2 64gb black iphone5s with tiny silver nick on the top bevelled edge. When I saw the first, I cursed myself for somehow scratching it, after seeing the second I figured it came that way. Now I feel better.
I've had an iPhone 3GS "scuff free" for a few years now. Is this because it's MIGHTY and the new iPhone is weak? Or… is it because...
- It has ALWAYS lived in a hard-shell case - I NEVER put it in a pocket with KEYS and COINS for it to rub up against. - I don't drop it unprotected onto gravel driveways…
And so on?
I'm really not sure. Maybe in a side by side scratch/drop/abuse and otherwise pocket-mangle test, the new iPhone will lose the battle. Or maybe not. One thing I can guarantee though. They will ALL fail the "I'm still pristine after a week of abuse" test….
Guaranteed.
If a phone arrives pre-damaged, Apple WILL replace it. Wow, that was easy, huh?
Had a look at a few of them at the local Apple church.
Despite being handled by hundreds of people, they all looked great. Ridiculously light and very nice to hold. Played around with it for a few minutes and realised that Ive was right: the longer screen works nicely with one thumb. I can imagine it will scratch if you put a key to it, so perhaps it's best not to put a key to it. The new connector is tiny but solid. Fits in with a nice snap so you know it's connected properly. Screen is nice and bright.
One criticism: the slate model needs black earpods.
Same here.
I know it's an illusion, but the lightness made it feel a little fragile.
The new connector is fantastic. But the way they displayed thhe phone in the store, I was very concerned for how easy it might be to snap off the connector in a situation where the pone was not properly supported.
And finally, while the tallness doesn't affect thumb operation, I just don't like it. The old shorter form factor was the perfect size for me. Don't know why Apple felt the need to toy with this other than to compete with Android phones. I really hope they continue to offer the shorter form factor after they discontinue the iPhone 4S in two years.
This comes from the guy without kids, or a girlfriend, or a wife. It is an example. If MJ had done it, you would have complained that an adult is strong, and can cause damage quite easily. The example was showing how easily aluminum can be scratched. It was comedy using her 2 year old. Your girlfriend or wife will throw her phone into her purse, which also includes car keys. When they come in contact, the keys will scratch aluminum. Games and video on an iPhone can calm an upset child, so parents do give their iPhone to their child to play games or watch video. Granted, they don't have a set of keys in their other hand. Thankfully, I don't have kids, and I know how to take care of my things, so my Apple products don't get scratched or damaged.
Just to play devil's advocate ... the iFixit scratch test was a pretty badly thought out test IMO.
Certainly it's realistic that a kid will do that if they got a hold of your keys and your phone, but you'd have to be an idiot to let your kid get a hold of your keys and your phone. A kid that small can't reach up onto the counter top where you would normally put them so you'd have to sit the kid on the kitchen counter (ewwww!), or leave your keys and phone together on the coffee table and leave the room. Also, she had some serious gigantic steel tools on her key ring. Most people have a plastic fob and brass or aluminium keys and it would be much harder to scratch the thing with those. Most folks (male or female) don't have pliers or any kind of gigantic steel things on their keyring (steel would obviously scratch like crazy).
So the whole thing was both unrealistic in format and kind of exaggerated to me. It's also just kind of sloppy to use something containing a half dozen different materials to scratch the phone and then go "see! scratches!!!" A more controlled test would be more sensible and would tell you a lot more.
I was also struck by the irony of the iFixit people being upset about how easy it was to scratch, when they are the same people arguing that every device should be repairable and that we should all carry them around for many years repairing them as we go. If we really take their preferred use case to heart, we would *all* be walking around with scratched and scuffed devices with a very worn in look to them. The two positions are kind of philosophically opposed to each other.
Finally, it's also interesting that the most popular picture you see accompanying "scratch gate" articles is that one by the idiot that took the sim ejector tool to the back of his phone. That thing is waaay harder than aluminium and probably harder than steel as well, of course it's going to destroy the back. Most of the time however, the scratching is not going to be a big deal as long as you aren't a total idiot and purposely mess up the back of your phone.
Good to know it isn't just me. Nothing major, just a small scuff at the bottom edge of the left side frame, and a couple of tiny marks (might be adhesive residue) where the metal back meets the glass at the top.
Not a deal breaker, but I am so spoiled by the quality control on all my previous iPhones (I've owned them all) that these small flaws stood out. When a device is sold at a premium and marketed as almost a piece of fine jewelry, I don't think it's too much to ask that the fit and finish be flawless. I think things are slipping a bit from the days of Steve.
I think you've picked up on something that no one is really thinking about, in that it depends on what you paid for the phone and how you got it.
Most are paying $200 or less for an otherwise expensive item and complaining when it isn't perfect which seems a bit beyond the pale to me. However if you are buying unlocked and 64GB then you are talking about close to a thousand dollars after taxes etc. (!) If the phone has scratches and scuffs and paint errors etc. for a thousand dollars it's a bit much and the ire is certainly entirely justified.
The same goes for Apple's policy of replacing the units with refurbished models. If you just got a $200 contract phone, so what? It was probably refurbished to begin with. If on the other hand you paid a thousand dollars for it, for Apple to replace it with some refurbished junk is criminal in that it's basically (technically) fraud.
Second iPhone 5 64GB today and it has what I would term a "ding" on the chamfer edge on the back side opposite the camera. It also has some discolouration on the white edge 1/2 way down the left side when looking at the screen. Bought this at wireless wave and they told me they can't return it. I went to apple, they are swamped. The Business Manager I talked to seemed to know about the issue. Told me to go online and make a genius appointment. Didn't seem to be an issue about getting it replaced when they have stock.
Are you kidding me? You would put your two year old on the Internet to hype your fixit company. Most people would not even let their kids have a Facebook account until they are 16 but you put your kid on display at age two? Give me a freakin' break! Are you insane? This is the Internet the we are talking about. There are crazy people on the Internet.
LOOOL, have you ever heard of a helicopter parent? Look in the mirror. And then people are surprised why are all the kids in USA fat. The parent's watch the news, in one village somewhere in mid-west somebody shoots/kills/rapes a kid, next day it's all over the news and all helicopter OCD parents lock their kids home for the rest of their life and all they do there is watching TV and eating junkfood. Get a life a bit. I am getting sick of all my facebook friends posting hundreds of pictures of their kids all over the FB, usually half naked on the beach (making them publicly available) and you are hyping about one video where you can barely see kid's face? LOOOL
I don't want to give good ideas for Samsung... but I could imagine another version of their ad, showing two long lines in front of an Apple Store and explaining that one is for the so called fanboys, the other is for those clever ones who ordered the phone on-line and now have to wait in line to return and exchange it to scuff-free one.
People who say they would expect a product out of the box with no scuffs, should go to any jeans store and try to find clothes without those trendy scratches. These days mostly you can find washed and "well-worn" models.
If Apple reports record sales, other phone companies will try to copy those nicks from the iPhone 5.
But hopefully that time we could see Apple introducing the iPhone 6 with liquid-metal back.
Mine came with a tiny nick in the chamfer, and I don't really care.
This will be a major ongoing publicized complaint with the iPhone 5—not so much the production flaws, but how fragile the soft aluminum casing is and how terribly it wears over time compared to the 4/4s.
This could have been, and will be (in the next refresh), solved with LiquidMetal.
People who say they would expect a product out of the box with no scuffs, should go to any jeans store and try to find clothes without those trendy scratches. These days mostly you can find washed and "well-worn" models.
If Apple reports record sales, other phone companies will try to copy those nicks from the iPhone 5.
But hopefully that time we could see Apple introducing the iPhone 6 with liquid-metal back.
With that logic, you expect people to buy a new iphone and upon opening the box, they should be happy finding a scratched, up worn out, refurb.
So, Apple didn't want to learn HTC One S experience with anodised aluminium?
It had to be made of steel, not aluminium, but then, I guess, iPhone would last longer and production would cost more with the same end price, and so it would give Apple less profit, and Apple is not ready to keep it's hand not that deep in customer's pocket.
I've had an iPhone 3GS "scuff free" for a few years now. Is this because it's MIGHTY and the new iPhone is weak? Or… is it because...
- It has ALWAYS lived in a hard-shell case
- I NEVER put it in a pocket with KEYS and COINS for it to rub up against.
- I don't drop it unprotected onto gravel driveways…
And so on?
I'm really not sure. Maybe in a side by side scratch/drop/abuse and otherwise pocket-mangle test, the new iPhone will lose the battle. Or maybe not. One thing I can guarantee though. They will ALL fail the "I'm still pristine after a week of abuse" test….
Guaranteed.
If a phone arrives pre-damaged, Apple WILL replace it. Wow, that was easy, huh?
One guy was offered 3 replacements and all were damaged, was then told 3 was the limit in store. If that happens enough it'll severely limit a store's supply of iPhones, because who's gonna buy a open box iPhone unless it's discounted.
I don't want to give good ideas for Samsung... but I could imagine another version of their ad, showing two long lines in front of an Apple Store and explaining that one is for the so called fanboys, the other is for those clever ones who ordered the phone on-line and now have to wait in line to return and exchange it to scuff-free one.
People who say they would expect a product out of the box with no scuffs, should go to any jeans store and try to find clothes without those trendy scratches. These days mostly you can find washed and "well-worn" models.
If Apple reports record sales, other phone companies will try to copy those nicks from the iPhone 5.
But hopefully that time we could see Apple introducing the iPhone 6 with liquid-metal back.
There are plenty of jeans scratch free, and furthermore that's the in look right now. Scratched up phones aren't.
I think the issue is wide spread. I was in the first 50 iPhone 5 purchases at my local Apple store on launch day, got my white 64g iPhone home, synced with iTunes but didn't take the protective films off until later that evening. When I did there were 2 visible scuff marks on the back. Spoke to Apple this morning and they advised me to head back to the store for an exchange as they'd had a few customers back in already.
Went in this evening and spent nearly an hour trying to find one without a blemish. We went through 16 white iPhones and 6 black (half way through I was convinced it was an issue with the white iPhones so gave the blacks a try) eventually got a white blemish free iPhone. The business team member was so embarrassed, especially knowing that I'd driven over an hour to the store and suggested he speak to the manager about compensation for the drive back. I then got caught in an argument with the manager who was clearly unhappy about having to open so many phones. He said no other store would have provided this sort of service and there was nothing he could do. I pointed out the it wasn't my fault that so many iPhone were blemished and that I would expect any store to replace a damaged or blemished product, especially when I spent £699 on it. This is the first time I've had poor customer service from an Apple!
The blemishes on the iPhones ranged from light scuff marks to nicks on the polished edge. One nick was quite substantial, more like a chip. It was on the front edge near the top. The Apple employee didn't even lift the iPhone out of the box it was so noticeable.
Not sure who's quality controlling these at Foxconn!
I'd love to email Tim about my experience, those of you who have had responses in the past what email address are you using? Never had a reply to my emails.
With that logic, you expect people to buy a new iphone and upon opening the box, they should be happy finding a scratched, up worn out, refurb.
No, I don't expect it. As I don't understand why the hell the stores sell almost only well-worn jeans. But you know, the iPhone buyer-community is greater than the earlier Apple-community. I can see many people buying iPhone because it's trendy and not because of the exceptional ecosystem and quality. So for them, if Jobs were alive and told us:
"you're looking at it wrong, this is actually cool having those unique spots on the back of your phone. You can live with that, believe me."
I too laughed when I read that. (Did they mean 16 micrometers or 1.6 millimeters? Who knows?)
Glad you had the energy to point it out for those who missed it. It gave me a second good laugh.
I definitely like to check out what CU has to say before I buy cars, household appliances, etc. But it's best to ignore their "advice" about more complex and personal items. They don't really understand things like cameras, computers, smartphones, stereo equipment, etc.(anything personal that benefits from a bit of subjective evaluation, including evaluations of usability, elegance of function, or anything that has an esthetic impact in use, expression, or creation.)
It seems I read somewhere that Ralph Nader has worn the same 20 pairs of cheap, black, nylon socks for most of his life (same set of cheap suits too.) Frugal?—yes. Functional,, stylish, comfortable, and hygienic?—Not so much. Rather extreme and socially awkward?—Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
As usual, Consumer Reports is staffed by idiots.
First, a 16 nm scratch would be absolutely invisible with anything other than a STEM (16 nm is a few hundred atoms thickness).
I think it's important to keep some perspective here.... assuming an initial batch of around 2,000,000 phones produced even if 10,000 exhibit this problem that is still only 0.5%.... when dealing with production on this scale there are bound to be some teething issues that fall through the cracks. How many S3s get shipped with faults and returned but without all the media hoopla?
Except that just making up numbers doesn't provide any perspective at all. Nor does the defect rate on S3s have any bearing on iPhones. People have higher expectations from Apple because Apple generally delivers.
Comments
- It has ALWAYS lived in a hard-shell case
- I NEVER put it in a pocket with KEYS and COINS for it to rub up against.
- I don't drop it unprotected onto gravel driveways…
And so on?
I'm really not sure. Maybe in a side by side scratch/drop/abuse and otherwise pocket-mangle test, the new iPhone will lose the battle. Or maybe not. One thing I can guarantee though. They will ALL fail the "I'm still pristine after a week of abuse" test….
Guaranteed.
If a phone arrives pre-damaged, Apple WILL replace it. Wow, that was easy, huh?
On the other hand, it's a helluva lot better than being caught using child labor
http://venturebeat.com/2012/09/04/samsung-child-labor-fishy-audit/
I know it's an illusion, but the lightness made it feel a little fragile.
The new connector is fantastic. But the way they displayed thhe phone in the store, I was very concerned for how easy it might be to snap off the connector in a situation where the pone was not properly supported.
And finally, while the tallness doesn't affect thumb operation, I just don't like it. The old shorter form factor was the perfect size for me. Don't know why Apple felt the need to toy with this other than to compete with Android phones. I really hope they continue to offer the shorter form factor after they discontinue the iPhone 4S in two years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
This comes from the guy without kids, or a girlfriend, or a wife. It is an example. If MJ had done it, you would have complained that an adult is strong, and can cause damage quite easily. The example was showing how easily aluminum can be scratched. It was comedy using her 2 year old. Your girlfriend or wife will throw her phone into her purse, which also includes car keys. When they come in contact, the keys will scratch aluminum. Games and video on an iPhone can calm an upset child, so parents do give their iPhone to their child to play games or watch video. Granted, they don't have a set of keys in their other hand. Thankfully, I don't have kids, and I know how to take care of my things, so my Apple products don't get scratched or damaged.
Just to play devil's advocate ... the iFixit scratch test was a pretty badly thought out test IMO.
Certainly it's realistic that a kid will do that if they got a hold of your keys and your phone, but you'd have to be an idiot to let your kid get a hold of your keys and your phone. A kid that small can't reach up onto the counter top where you would normally put them so you'd have to sit the kid on the kitchen counter (ewwww!), or leave your keys and phone together on the coffee table and leave the room. Also, she had some serious gigantic steel tools on her key ring. Most people have a plastic fob and brass or aluminium keys and it would be much harder to scratch the thing with those. Most folks (male or female) don't have pliers or any kind of gigantic steel things on their keyring (steel would obviously scratch like crazy).
So the whole thing was both unrealistic in format and kind of exaggerated to me. It's also just kind of sloppy to use something containing a half dozen different materials to scratch the phone and then go "see! scratches!!!" A more controlled test would be more sensible and would tell you a lot more.
I was also struck by the irony of the iFixit people being upset about how easy it was to scratch, when they are the same people arguing that every device should be repairable and that we should all carry them around for many years repairing them as we go. If we really take their preferred use case to heart, we would *all* be walking around with scratched and scuffed devices with a very worn in look to them. The two positions are kind of philosophically opposed to each other.
Finally, it's also interesting that the most popular picture you see accompanying "scratch gate" articles is that one by the idiot that took the sim ejector tool to the back of his phone. That thing is waaay harder than aluminium and probably harder than steel as well, of course it's going to destroy the back. Most of the time however, the scratching is not going to be a big deal as long as you aren't a total idiot and purposely mess up the back of your phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
That video with young Uma Thurman proves what? That colored metal can be scratched? Somebody call science books and tell them they're still right.
She has an annoying voice but she's actually quite pretty and thus nothing at all like Uma Thurman who looks like a man in drag.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber
Good to know it isn't just me. Nothing major, just a small scuff at the bottom edge of the left side frame, and a couple of tiny marks (might be adhesive residue) where the metal back meets the glass at the top.
Not a deal breaker, but I am so spoiled by the quality control on all my previous iPhones (I've owned them all) that these small flaws stood out. When a device is sold at a premium and marketed as almost a piece of fine jewelry, I don't think it's too much to ask that the fit and finish be flawless. I think things are slipping a bit from the days of Steve.
I think you've picked up on something that no one is really thinking about, in that it depends on what you paid for the phone and how you got it.
Most are paying $200 or less for an otherwise expensive item and complaining when it isn't perfect which seems a bit beyond the pale to me. However if you are buying unlocked and 64GB then you are talking about close to a thousand dollars after taxes etc. (!) If the phone has scratches and scuffs and paint errors etc. for a thousand dollars it's a bit much and the ire is certainly entirely justified.
The same goes for Apple's policy of replacing the units with refurbished models. If you just got a $200 contract phone, so what? It was probably refurbished to begin with. If on the other hand you paid a thousand dollars for it, for Apple to replace it with some refurbished junk is criminal in that it's basically (technically) fraud.
Second iPhone 5 64GB today and it has what I would term a "ding" on the chamfer edge on the back side opposite the camera. It also has some discolouration on the white edge 1/2 way down the left side when looking at the screen. Bought this at wireless wave and they told me they can't return it. I went to apple, they are swamped. The Business Manager I talked to seemed to know about the issue. Told me to go online and make a genius appointment. Didn't seem to be an issue about getting it replaced when they have stock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Are you kidding me? You would put your two year old on the Internet to hype your fixit company. Most people would not even let their kids have a Facebook account until they are 16 but you put your kid on display at age two? Give me a freakin' break! Are you insane? This is the Internet the we are talking about. There are crazy people on the Internet.
LOOOL, have you ever heard of a helicopter parent? Look in the mirror. And then people are surprised why are all the kids in USA fat. The parent's watch the news, in one village somewhere in mid-west somebody shoots/kills/rapes a kid, next day it's all over the news and all helicopter OCD parents lock their kids home for the rest of their life and all they do there is watching TV and eating junkfood. Get a life a bit. I am getting sick of all my facebook friends posting hundreds of pictures of their kids all over the FB, usually half naked on the beach (making them publicly available) and you are hyping about one video where you can barely see kid's face? LOOOL
I don't want to give good ideas for Samsung... but I could imagine another version of their ad, showing two long lines in front of an Apple Store and explaining that one is for the so called fanboys, the other is for those clever ones who ordered the phone on-line and now have to wait in line to return and exchange it to scuff-free one.
People who say they would expect a product out of the box with no scuffs, should go to any jeans store and try to find clothes without those trendy scratches. These days mostly you can find washed and "well-worn" models.
If Apple reports record sales, other phone companies will try to copy those nicks from the iPhone 5.
But hopefully that time we could see Apple introducing the iPhone 6 with liquid-metal back.
Mine came with a tiny nick in the chamfer, and I don't really care.
This will be a major ongoing publicized complaint with the iPhone 5—not so much the production flaws, but how fragile the soft aluminum casing is and how terribly it wears over time compared to the 4/4s.
This could have been, and will be (in the next refresh), solved with LiquidMetal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac-user
People who say they would expect a product out of the box with no scuffs, should go to any jeans store and try to find clothes without those trendy scratches. These days mostly you can find washed and "well-worn" models.
If Apple reports record sales, other phone companies will try to copy those nicks from the iPhone 5.
But hopefully that time we could see Apple introducing the iPhone 6 with liquid-metal back.
With that logic, you expect people to buy a new iphone and upon opening the box, they should be happy finding a scratched, up worn out, refurb.
So, Apple didn't want to learn HTC One S experience with anodised aluminium?
It had to be made of steel, not aluminium, but then, I guess, iPhone would last longer and production would cost more with the same end price, and so it would give Apple less profit, and Apple is not ready to keep it's hand not that deep in customer's pocket.
One guy was offered 3 replacements and all were damaged, was then told 3 was the limit in store. If that happens enough it'll severely limit a store's supply of iPhones, because who's gonna buy a open box iPhone unless it's discounted.
There are plenty of jeans scratch free, and furthermore that's the in look right now. Scratched up phones aren't.
Went in this evening and spent nearly an hour trying to find one without a blemish. We went through 16 white iPhones and 6 black (half way through I was convinced it was an issue with the white iPhones so gave the blacks a try) eventually got a white blemish free iPhone. The business team member was so embarrassed, especially knowing that I'd driven over an hour to the store and suggested he speak to the manager about compensation for the drive back. I then got caught in an argument with the manager who was clearly unhappy about having to open so many phones. He said no other store would have provided this sort of service and there was nothing he could do. I pointed out the it wasn't my fault that so many iPhone were blemished and that I would expect any store to replace a damaged or blemished product, especially when I spent £699 on it. This is the first time I've had poor customer service from an Apple!
The blemishes on the iPhones ranged from light scuff marks to nicks on the polished edge. One nick was quite substantial, more like a chip. It was on the front edge near the top. The Apple employee didn't even lift the iPhone out of the box it was so noticeable.
Not sure who's quality controlling these at Foxconn!
I'd love to email Tim about my experience, those of you who have had responses in the past what email address are you using? Never had a reply to my emails.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
With that logic, you expect people to buy a new iphone and upon opening the box, they should be happy finding a scratched, up worn out, refurb.
No, I don't expect it. As I don't understand why the hell the stores sell almost only well-worn jeans. But you know, the iPhone buyer-community is greater than the earlier Apple-community. I can see many people buying iPhone because it's trendy and not because of the exceptional ecosystem and quality. So for them, if Jobs were alive and told us:
"you're looking at it wrong, this is actually cool having those unique spots on the back of your phone. You can live with that, believe me."
...many would think it's cool, indeed.
I too laughed when I read that. (Did they mean 16 micrometers or 1.6 millimeters? Who knows?)
Glad you had the energy to point it out for those who missed it. It gave me a second good laugh.
I definitely like to check out what CU has to say before I buy cars, household appliances, etc. But it's best to ignore their "advice" about more complex and personal items. They don't really understand things like cameras, computers, smartphones, stereo equipment, etc.(anything personal that benefits from a bit of subjective evaluation, including evaluations of usability, elegance of function, or anything that has an esthetic impact in use, expression, or creation.)
It seems I read somewhere that Ralph Nader has worn the same 20 pairs of cheap, black, nylon socks for most of his life (same set of cheap suits too.) Frugal?—yes. Functional,, stylish, comfortable, and hygienic?—Not so much. Rather extreme and socially awkward?—Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
As usual, Consumer Reports is staffed by idiots.
First, a 16 nm scratch would be absolutely invisible with anything other than a STEM (16 nm is a few hundred atoms thickness).
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveMcM76
I think it's important to keep some perspective here.... assuming an initial batch of around 2,000,000 phones produced even if 10,000 exhibit this problem that is still only 0.5%.... when dealing with production on this scale there are bound to be some teething issues that fall through the cracks. How many S3s get shipped with faults and returned but without all the media hoopla?
Except that just making up numbers doesn't provide any perspective at all. Nor does the defect rate on S3s have any bearing on iPhones. People have higher expectations from Apple because Apple generally delivers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Because plastic never scuffs.
Just like Apple never makes mistakes.