How Google was "skyhooked" by Apple's new iOS 6 Maps

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  • Reply 81 of 108

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


     


    Wow that's a lot of unsubstantiated defamation to pack into your first comment on AI.


     


    The only thing better that "spotty logic" is making wild claims you don't even bother to back up with the spottiest of logic.


     


    I guess it's easier to be a pretentious dick than offer any valid criticism of another person's work. It's worked so well for the guy behind the other six accounts that constantly fume about every DED article without articulating any real grievances. 





    Dude, calm down.  Step 1: Check my post count and joined date.  Hardly my first rodeo.


     


    I'd hope the digressions are intuitively obvious, but the first starts here:


     


    Quote:


    Google's dominant position in mobile maps originated with Apple, but when the iPhone first appeared in 2007, Google had already established its web-based maps as the leader in online mapping.



    This was largely due to its novel use of AJAX web technologies to present and display easy to peruse maps and satellite imagery, a project that developed as an outgrowth of Google's 2004 acquisition of Where 2 Technologies.



     


    His characterization of Java VMs is a little spotty, but I'll (mostly) let that go.  "Novel use of AJAX"?  You mean the one that changed the web into a real platform like Sun could only wish Java had? 


     


    More importantly: On AI, who really cares?  Reduce your writing to what's needed.  Simplify, simplify.  What's the point of Java and AJAX?  There is a history to these techs.  I get it.  MOVE ON.


     


    So he keeps harping on fragmentation...


     


    Quote:


    ([Android is] a fragmented mess of platforms where every manufacturers' phones had their own VM with more quirks and bugs to work around than a web browser in the late 1990s)



     


    That's just fanboy.  I like the "Only .5% of folks using Android are really using Android" line, but this is just minimally contextualized attack.  Then there's some Vista cameo like Princess Leia in Thumb Wars explaining, "I escaped somehow," then we move from open sourced Android to closed culture Android, then...  Look, it's like watching Oliver Stone.  What's the point?  Take the time to boil it down for me, or take it to RoughlyDrafted.  Or better yet, I'll boil it down: "The history of Android is one of fragmentation.  I will now explain why that's important for mapping apps."  Poof.  Word count cut in half.


     


    I could keep going, but critiquing Dilger's writing isn't my job.  I just wish, as a reader, he'd do better and carefully revise what he's got with good, enjoyable signposts that help make the crux of his argument more obvious.  Say, like Gruber does.  Here, I was less evaluating Dilger's work than sympathizing with the previous poster.  This is a forum, after all.


     


    (That said, when it comes to the hospital bit, I'm a little more ethically disappointed in Dilger, and that has very little to do with his writing, other than some evidence of a systemic carelessness for others, including, here, your reader.  But I'm mostly just disappointed with his lackluster attitude for city residents that contributed to his care.)


     


    You don't have to make your stuff easy to follow for your writing to be good, but at least Pynchon uses an appropriate genre, you know?

  • Reply 82 of 108

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post


     


    His name is above the article.


    Painful indeed.


     


    J.





    You know, I never noticed names of authors on AI until Dilger came along.  Then I noticed there were lots of posts that, surprise, sounded like that RoughlyDrafted guy.  Guess what?


     


    I don't really read AI like I would, say, The New Yorker.  But you know, touche to you or whatever.  ;)


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


     


    What's painful is watching you show the world how clueless you are.  His name is in the byline of the original article:


     


    http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/09/26/how-google-was-skyhooked-by-apples-new-ios-6-maps


     


    :facepalm:



     


    Oh, touche for you too, I guess.  See, here's the deal: I don't really care who the author is unless the stuff is operatively different from what I expect.  You don't have to read the byline.  It's called tmesis.


     


    Guess I should have been more clear (and I'll facepalm myself if either of you meant what you wrote literally): It's obviously not like figuring out the author's penname takes any sleuthing.  Rather, I usually skip the author's name, since I generally don't really care who it is, as long as it's up to AI's usual standards.  I'm just reading this stuff quickly during lunch or after work or whatever.  If I notice a clear break from genre, I'll occasionally bother to go back and check for a name.  It's like the Sesame Street chestnut, "Which one of these things is not like the other?"  In Dilger's case, imo, ianal, ymmv, the break from expectations is for the worse.  /shrug  You can disagree.  No big deal.  Just thought I'd let the other guy know I, too, believe this is RoughlyDrafted style material.


     


    As the OP to this thread of posts said, Dilger's composition here is better suited to RoughlyDrafted than what I usually see at AI.  I'd rather see the source change than have to notice the byline.


     


    Got it?  ;^D

  • Reply 83 of 108


    Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

    It's worked so well for the guy behind the other six accounts that constantly fume about every DED article without articulating any real grievances. 


     


    Which six account would these be? As our rules state you may only have one active account, five of them need to be deleted.

  • Reply 84 of 108

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by haar View Post





    and when (or if) Google provides a map app for iOS 6, do you think that the Andriod manufacturers will not complain that Apple is getting a free map app, whereas the Andriod Licensee Pays for the map app?.

    which is why Google will provide street view on the web app, and leave it at that...


    No, I don't think they will because they're paying for a lot more than maps when they license Android.  Google already put the Android versions of Google+ and YouTube on the App Store, and nobody batted an eye.  Arguably those apps aren't quite as high on the list of differentiating factors of the Android platform, but they are now equivalent regardless.


     


    And by the way, here's a big, fat LOL at Daniel defending his own articles under an alias.  If you don't like the heat, then don't post flamebait!

  • Reply 85 of 108
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post



    I don't really see the problem with any of the posts you reported, even if the poster is DED using a pseudonym.

    AppleInsider isn't the WSJ. It's an Internet blog basically.

    Also, the original poster was being, well, an slang term for the male organ.


     


    Because it's against the forum rules to call someone a pretentious dick.  


     


    If it isn't against forum rules then I would be quite happy to state that DED is a massive douchebag that makes Apple fans look like asses and we would be well rid of him.


     


    Perhaps someone could send him a large check to be a WinPhone 8 fan instead.  

  • Reply 86 of 108
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member


    This article seems to trivialize the valid complaints about the apple maps app. I'm not sure why, but the article came off as dogmatically dismissive of widespread criticism.


     


    Keep in mind that this sentiment isn't coming from an android or anti-apple user. Rather, I consider myself to be a satisfied iOS and Mac user. I absolutely love most apple products and features of apple products... except the new maps app.


     


    I don't know enough about existing contracts between the companies to comment on if it made good business sense. However it is absolutely clear that the new maps app is a massive step backwards. It provides less detail, it is less accurate and it has serious visual design problems. While turn by turn is appreciated, this was already available to iOS users via other apps. What's missing now are quality maps, both in the native app and in other apps via the public API.


     


    This setback to the iOS user experience can and will be remedied, at least to some degree. But as it stands right now, maps on iOS are pathetic. Yes pathetic. This isn't just an unfinished product. Rather, it shows signs of incompetence at upper levels of the development team. Need one example? The fact that one way street indicators aren't displayed much of the time, and when they are displayed, they're almost invisible. No competent manager/lead-designer/interaction-designer would have let such a massive blunder find its way into a public release. This isn't like not having access to an accurate database of map data. Instead it is just plain and simple incompetent product development.

  • Reply 87 of 108
    h2ph2p Posts: 264member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mechanic View Post


    You mean google treated apple users like crap because it told apple that turn by turn and mass transit and pedestrian traffic and traffic reroutes were android only and meant to differentiate the android app from the apple app therefore placing all apple users at the short end of the stick?  I thought so.. Good riddance  to Google.  The carpet bagger company of all time...



    +1 (or is that +1,000). Thank you, Mechanic, for your succinct comments. I'd say RIPGoogle but that's being too kind.

  • Reply 88 of 108


    Clearly you can't read the numerous independent reports and analysis and I for one am not going to do your homework I have read and looked at the evidence compared the Apple product with Google and there is no doubt that Apple seems to be a full generation behind.  Lazy people don't impress me and the evidence is there and has been quoted at least a dozen times in the various posts.

  • Reply 89 of 108
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,718member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ernysp76 View Post


    Clearly you can't read the numerous independent reports and analysis and I for one am not going to do your homework I have read and looked at the evidence compared the Apple product with Google and there is no doubt that Apple seems to be a full generation behind.  Lazy people don't impress me and the evidence is there and has been quoted at least a dozen times in the various posts.



     


    Oh, look, another new guy (four whole posts) telling us we can't read and we're lazy and that he's not going to do our homework for us.  :rolleyes:

  • Reply 90 of 108
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


     


    Oh, look, another new guy (four whole posts) telling us we can't read and we're lazy and that he's not going to do our homework for us.  :rolleyes:



     


    Block member is now a top level menu pulldown.  Beats the old system where you had to take a few more steps than that.

  • Reply 91 of 108
    ernysp76 wrote: »
    Apple has a simple problem; Google owns the Maps system that works and Apple doesn't, Apple decided to go it a alone and failed. NY Daily, Forbes, The Inquirer even ABC all report this mess as yet another assault on Apple's reputation.  Put simply the conclusion is that Apple rushed to get the Iphone 5 on the market knowing full well that it had a mapping system which was totally underdeveloped just so that it could arrest its loss of market share to Samsung.  Apple messed this one and is now trying to spin and buy expertise from Google, but catching up to Google will take years and Google can offer a product when it feels like it (code for when Apple is prepared to pay for it).  Apple is now in a no win scenario as it has to play catch up (something it isn't used to) while Google continues to move forward including innovative underwater work.

    What's your point? Apple has sold millions of iPhone 5 so far to customers who care very little about what the tech press and blog whiners have to say. If you don't believe that's what matters most to Apple, you're barking up the wrong tree.
  • Reply 92 of 108


    Originally Posted by nht View Post

    Block member is now a top level menu pulldown.  Beats the old system where you had to take a few more steps than that.


     


    That's probably one of the few things that could be considered a user-side "benefit" in Huddler. I quote that only because I don't see the Ignore List as a benefit, but that's me.

  • Reply 93 of 108
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,718member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nht View Post


    Block member is now a top level menu pulldown.  Beats the old system where you had to take a few more steps than that.



     


    Just providing a public service, pointing out the trollsome behavior of some of the astroturf Fandroid crowd.

  • Reply 94 of 108
    It is a cost thing.

    Sourcing and then owning goods is the long term way of keeping costs low and sustaining profit margins.
    If you look elsewhere profit is low because overall costs are high.

    It is bad or worse business if Apple pay a high price.
  • Reply 95 of 108
    [QUOTE]Earth is also less detailed, and its images are older than Apple's.[/QUOTE]

    This statement is laughable. It may be the case that its U.S. imagery is newer than Google%u2019s, but in most of Europe the detail is woeful. Hal' of the images are black and white, half are pixelated to the extent they're utterly useless. All are clearly much older than Google%u2019s (though the black and white imagery is interesting to see what places looked like over thirty years ago).
  • Reply 96 of 108
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    That's probably one of the few things that could be considered a user-side "benefit" in Huddler. I quote that only because I don't see the Ignore List as a benefit, but that's me.



     


    Liberal application of the banhammer would be a benefit but that ain't gonna happen.


     


    Down voting trolls into oblivion would be a benefit but that ain't gonna happen either.


     


    So ignore lists is what we got.

  • Reply 97 of 108
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,443member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by nht View Post


     


    Liberal application of the banhammer would be a benefit but that ain't gonna happen.


     


    Down voting trolls into oblivion would be a benefit but that ain't gonna happen either.


     


    So ignore lists is what we got.



    An inadvertent benefit for "trolls" is that their posts don't get challenged by those with facts to show otherwise. A casual visitor or non-member of the forum (the biggest majority of readers by far) might be left with the impression the "trolls' comments are valid if no one calls them out due to the most knowledgeable members having that poster on ignore.


     


    Of course if you're only looking out for yourself and truth be damned, using ignore is fine. The truly "trollish" posters with an agenda would probably prefer to be on everyone's ignore list, thus avoiding anyone here questioning their posts or pointing out fallacies.

  • Reply 98 of 108


    Originally Posted by nht View Post

    Liberal application of the banhammer would be a benefit but that ain't gonna happen.



     


    Request a policy change! Write up what you'd like to see in the form of a new rule and start a thread on your position. Get others to enter the thread and discuss. Eventually site management will respond, hopefully in the form of a poll allowing users to choose the implementation, or by outright accepting what was discussed.





    Down voting trolls into oblivion would be a benefit but that ain't gonna happen either.



     


    I disagree. I'm glad there's no "downvote" button. Our current setup forces people to reply to things with which they disagree instead of blindly and without accountability harming said position. When forced to reply, the validity of the downvoter's opinion is then given equal exposure, allowing all to see both sides and determine for themselves.


     


    I actually don't like the "upvote" button, either. Sure, it gets some valid use, but it has only ever been consistently used by trolls upvoting each other.

  • Reply 99 of 108
    Features? Your own Tim Cook said Apple maps was broken, and was suggesting people get another map app. lol
  • Reply 100 of 108

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by John.B View Post


     


    Oh, look, another new guy (four whole posts) telling us we can't read and we're lazy and that he's not going to do our homework for us.  :rolleyes:



    So great welcome!!!  Real friendly place a NOOB gets the royal treatment from someone who is too lazy to read.  Maybe you should ask Siri to read for you.   Oh look the Apple CEO has decided to apologies for the mapping program, despite people on here still trying to defend what has always been the indefensible, and look Apple shares have also taken a dive.  Maybe Apples best friends are not the blind followers but instead those that can see through the hype and see the product more objectively.  Those on here that go the person every time anyone points out that a Apple product is found to be inferior, by the majority of the World including it would now seem the CEO of the company, are not the true friends of Apple but are instead ignorant and it would seem illiterate!  

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