If people need street view that bad there is an app for it. I just used it the other day. No it's not integrated the way street view was in the previous maps app but its there. I find t hard to believe lack of integrated street view renders the iPhone useless.
Isn't it strange? One the one hand many people claim iTunes is useless and bloated and needs to be broken up into smaller, more focused applications. One the other hand, if people have to use more than one app for their mapping/navigation solution, it is the end of Apple and they have "jumped the shark" (for those old enough to remember "The Fonz").
My experience so far has been that Apple's maps are quite a bit more accurate than Google's. I went through my history (thanks Apple for keeping that on the new app, BTW!), and all the places I had trouble with Google were spot on with Apple. Yes, I do miss Streetview, but that's not an issue either as there is still the standalone StreetViewer app.
Like some others have posted, the claims of Apple's lack of detail seem to primarily be lies of omission. They conveniently neglect to mention that detail increases as you zoom in.
I agree. It is all about trying to stir up more anti Apple sentiment. The article is even titled in a way to mislead and get eyeballs. It reads at first glance as if the current solution was a last minute idea. This is tabloid journalism at its worst and a trend here on AI also and frankly turning me off reading AI more and more.
It seems AI is more interested in attracting Apple haters these days. I am going to go read Mac Rumors now and I may not be back here much as I used to be.
Again,the NYT doing an anti-apple article when the stock reach near all time highs and came back a bit. Is like they are trying to fuel the selloff to buy lower.
Isn't it strange? One the one hand many people claim iTunes is useless and bloated and needs to be broken up into smaller, more focused applications. One the other hand, if people have to use more than one app for their mapping/navigation solution, it is the end of Apple and they have "jumped the shark" (for those old enough to remember "The Fonz").
Just like people who bitched when the iPad got ever so slightly thicker and heavier (to accommodate that brilliant retina display) and now are bitching that the iPhone 5 is too thin and light and feels like a cheap toy. It's basically heads I win tails you lose.
This is probably the biggest advantage Google has over Apple in mapping. Through their web based maps, millions of people are plotting POIs, writing reviews, and adding businesses to the maps data set. Google also has all of its search data to bring to bear and integrate with their mapping solution. Those are some very powerful tools that Apple just doesn't have anything close to matching.
I don't get why they are only focusing on iOS. They still use Google Maps with their Find My iPhone service in iCloud instead of their own back end or even OpenStreetMaps. Would even that had been an issue to include when they updated iCloud recently? Perhaps I'm missing something but I'd think a web presence would be pinnacle to the rapid advancement and success of Apple Maps as the de facto mapping back end.
Find My Phone on an iDevice uses a TomTom backend -- On iCloud it uses a Google backend.
Here is what I think Apple is doing:
getting mobile mapping off of Google ASAP
eventually, migrate all Apple mapping to the new backend
avoid the problems when trying to change everything at once ala MobileMe
I think #1 is most important in that it prevents Google from tracking millions of iDevices and using billions of map requests to refine the Google backend.
I suspect that a statistician could plot the tipping point that results from removing billions of requests from Google and moving them to Apple.
Apple could have explained the problem with something like:
"We wanted to bring the best and most up-to-date mapping services to our iOS customers. Unfortunately, we were unable to negotiate an agreement with Google to provide those services... so we decided to built a new mapping service from the ground up. We are late to the game, but we will work to provide the best solution to our customers!"
This is a statement of fact -- not a blame game or pissing contest. However, the observer can "read between the lines", do a little research, surmise what happened, and assign any blame as they see fit.
Had they done it this way, likely, half of the bloggers/journalists would have taken Apple's side and made Tim's apology unnecessary.
Finally, All this bad publicity and Tim's apology -- is still publicity.
Apple has accepted the challenge in the public forum -- now, all they need do is "perform" and fix the problems. Once they do that, they will have a net gain from the publicity... one step back, then a leap forward for Apple.
Except that you would have a bunch of users saying "how can the richest company in the world not care enough about its users to pony-up what Google wanted for their complete mapping services" or the like. The apology was unnecessary, and this all would have settled down in a few weeks just like any other "Applegate" issue has. iOS6 has only been officially released for a week or so, so it is natural to have all eyes on it. As people calm down and the emotion subsides I like to think that rational thought would have returned.
Apple did what had to be done. It wasn't painless, but now they can look towards the future and can do it their way for their customers. They are no longer at the mercy of Google for their mapping. This is an admirable position to be in, not being dependent on a competitor. Does anyone doubt that Apple will address any outstanding issues in a very short time-frame? There are alternatives out there, but Apple looked weak in pointing them out publicly.
Isn't it strange? One the one hand many people claim iTunes is useless and bloated and needs to be broken up into smaller, more focused applications. One the other hand, if people have to use more than one app for their mapping/navigation solution, it is the end of Apple and they have "jumped the shark" (for those old enough to remember "The Fonz").
Count me among those that don't like things being broken up across multiple apps. I do not understand the people complaining about iTunes, having everything in one place is ALWAYS better, and iTunes as it is now is the best-of the best. It's breaking the iTunes functions up on iOS that ticks me off. I do not want to have to use 4 different apps to access the content that I have all together on one library on my Mac. It's bad UI, IMO.
Except that you would have a bunch of users saying "how can the richest company in the world not care enough about its users to pony-up what Google wanted for their complete mapping services" or the like.
Perhaps it was not about money. Both Google and Apple are fighting for mind share. If the deal breaker was Google branding in the Maps app or Google harvesting user data in the Maps app, there is no amount of money that can fix that.
What a lazy, cheap report by the NYT, as expected. Also, they're pretty late to the game on piling on. Instead of doing a real analysis of the new apps, and what building a mapping solution from the ground up entails, they swelve into the 'unanamed sources say Apple sucks and don't know how do do internet stuff' bullshit. This isn't 2007. Apple is now maybe only 2nd to Google in terms of Cloud expertise, and iCloud is perhaps the best, most used, and most ambitious cloud service I've ever used. It handles a myriad of things like syncing everything, full backups, photo streaming, app syncing, etc by hundreds of millions of very active users a day, and have massive bandwidth costs and scalability. The appstore is completely cloud based, and the best in the world. As is everything Apple has done in the last few years. No, maps doesn't have issues because Apple is incompetent in internet services. It's because its fucking complicated, can't be perfected in a lab, and anyone with an ounce of perspective should be able to aknowledge the ambitiousness of the project, as well as the impressive v.1 launch product. After search, this is Google's 2nd biggest product, which they've been investing billions of dollars in for the better part of a decade, with crowd sourced data from hundreds of millions during that time - yet maps is 'shit' because on day 1 it's not completely on par in SOME respects. NYT needs to get back at what it does best- toilet paper. It tells you something when half of the mocking screenshots out there are because of errors in the 3D- something that has no impact on useability, where the corresponding Google areas would be completely flat, and an example where Aple is being punished for being ultra-ambitious and using state of the art technology which of course will have growing pains instead of taking the much easier way out and using only high resolution shots. Yeah, seamlessly blending 3D and satelllite imagery from planes is not perfect ALL THE TIME- who would have thought??!
Also, I don't see how the hell deciding to do their own mapping servies is evidence of "lack of focus"? That's the very definition of "focus".
My experience so far has been that Apple's maps are quite a bit more accurate than Google's. I went through my history (thanks Apple for keeping that on the new app, BTW!), and all the places I had trouble with Google were spot on with Apple. Yes, I do miss Streetview, but that's not an issue either as there is still the standalone StreetViewer app.
Like some others have posted, the claims of Apple's lack of detail seem to primarily be lies of omission. They conveniently neglect to mention that detail increases as you zoom in.
Probably because "they" neglected to use the app thoroughly to examine all of the features and just repeat what others have repeated from those same others.
These mapping articles are getting seriously annoying...this site has more articles relating to this one fixable Beta stage issue than any other I've seen...mostly of the "This person said this bad thing about Apple maps...GET 'EM CULT MEMBERS." and it's annoying.
NYT is annoying...the bigger issue than it really is people are annoying.
come late 2013 or early 2014 I doubt there will be much to complain about anymore...and all will be fine...and this will be forgotten.
iOS 6 Maps isn't as good as Google Maps...on Android at least...and that's fine. I don't know why everyone (including outside of this site) cares so much.
Count me among those that don't like things being broken up across multiple apps. I do not understand the people complaining about iTunes, having everything in one place is ALWAYS better, and iTunes as it is now is the best-of the best. It's breaking the iTunes functions up on iOS that ticks me off. I do not want to have to use 4 different apps to access the content that I have all together on one library on my Mac. It's bad UI, IMO.
Oh, I am not judging on which is more usable. I was just illustrating that you cannot please everyone, and never could.
Google will have to embrace and extend Apple Maps if they want to remain relevant in the long term.
3rd Parties will be creating World Wide Bus, Train, Subway, Bike, Walking, Boat, Underwater/Submarine routes to be integrated in Apple Maps. No single company can provide all this information for the entire world so many 3rd parties will have to do the job. Not to mention information like demographic, political, financial, crime etc that will be provided by third parties.
If Google is smart, they will embrace and extend Apple Maps by developing 3rd party layers for Apple Maps that will make use of Google Backend Data. Because the Apple architecture is much better, you will soon see a booming Apple Maps add-on layer market from 3rd parties all over the world. Does Google wants to stand by and let others take that market on Apple Maps when it already has valuable data?
This it the result of what happens when one decides to go all "thermonuclear"- Karma comes biting you in the ass.
Vengeance is not a righteous driving force.
Apple's mapping will never get close to Google's. Google is defined by its search and mapping engines. Who are we trying to fool here with all these ridiculous comments that it will catch up and surpass Google's ? That train left the station eons ago.
We'll see... the test of a service is the number of users/requests that use it. If millions of iOS devices (owners with great, proven demographics) substitute Siri and Apple Maps for the Google search and map offerings -- what does that do for the appeal of Google advertising?
And, those iOS user will uses Apple's offerings because they are integrated and more convenient:
Me: "Siri: How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
Siri: "Turn left on..."
You were expecting "Siri: Practice, practice, practice"?
With its over-the-top negativity, the NYT is expressing its anger at Apple for not releasing subscriber info.
Cook needn't have been quite so apologetic, but he needs to step back from the daily grind of running the business, to gain better overall perspective.
Another brilliant piece, calling for Forstall's head over maps, basically the guy wh architected iOS and is most responsible for Apple's current success after Jobs.
"There's no excuse," Garner writes. "Quality control on Apple Maps had to have been terrible to not get this right. Bluntly, Scott Forstall should be fired over this mess."
These arm-chair analysts, who have never done anything worthwhile in their lives, are disgusting. Yeah, Forstall should be 'fired'. Who will take his place? The writer? What a bunch of vicious, "kick them when they're down" baboons. What an utter lack of perspective. The guy is in charge of the most successful mobile OS on the planet. Give him a shred of credit, you fuckwits. He's the closest thing to a Jobs that Apple has, or will ever have. Maybe SJ should have quit after any one of the number of "blunders" under his watch too?
Perhaps it was not about money. Both Google and Apple are fighting for mind share. If the deal breaker was Google branding in the Maps app or Google harvesting user data in the Maps app, there is no amount of money that can fix that.
I agree, the sticking points of the negotiation are unknown. We hear "sources close to the situation" mention what you did above, but the devil is in the details. Mindshare is not lacking for either company, so I don't understand why Google would be haggling over branding. It is the back-end data that they want, so I could see that as a potential road-block. However, the sensationalist headlines are just that Apple dumped Google Maps and Apple's maps suck, which average users read as "they don't care about the customer, look what they left us with...", not seeing the big picture. It used to be that the only two issues that would bring rational people to blows(and not the good kind) would be politics and religion. Add Apple to that list now.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
If people need street view that bad there is an app for it. I just used it the other day. No it's not integrated the way street view was in the previous maps app but its there. I find t hard to believe lack of integrated street view renders the iPhone useless.
Isn't it strange? One the one hand many people claim iTunes is useless and bloated and needs to be broken up into smaller, more focused applications. One the other hand, if people have to use more than one app for their mapping/navigation solution, it is the end of Apple and they have "jumped the shark" (for those old enough to remember "The Fonz").
Like some others have posted, the claims of Apple's lack of detail seem to primarily be lies of omission. They conveniently neglect to mention that detail increases as you zoom in.
Again,the NYT doing an anti-apple article when the stock reach near all time highs and came back a bit. Is like they are trying to fuel the selloff to buy lower.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
This is probably the biggest advantage Google has over Apple in mapping. Through their web based maps, millions of people are plotting POIs, writing reviews, and adding businesses to the maps data set. Google also has all of its search data to bring to bear and integrate with their mapping solution. Those are some very powerful tools that Apple just doesn't have anything close to matching.
I don't get why they are only focusing on iOS. They still use Google Maps with their Find My iPhone service in iCloud instead of their own back end or even OpenStreetMaps. Would even that had been an issue to include when they updated iCloud recently? Perhaps I'm missing something but I'd think a web presence would be pinnacle to the rapid advancement and success of Apple Maps as the de facto mapping back end.
Find My Phone on an iDevice uses a TomTom backend -- On iCloud it uses a Google backend.
Here is what I think Apple is doing:
getting mobile mapping off of Google ASAP
eventually, migrate all Apple mapping to the new backend
avoid the problems when trying to change everything at once ala MobileMe
I think #1 is most important in that it prevents Google from tracking millions of iDevices and using billions of map requests to refine the Google backend.
I suspect that a statistician could plot the tipping point that results from removing billions of requests from Google and moving them to Apple.
Data... is Da' Man!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Apple could have explained the problem with something like:
"We wanted to bring the best and most up-to-date mapping services to our iOS customers. Unfortunately, we were unable to negotiate an agreement with Google to provide those services... so we decided to built a new mapping service from the ground up. We are late to the game, but we will work to provide the best solution to our customers!"
This is a statement of fact -- not a blame game or pissing contest. However, the observer can "read between the lines", do a little research, surmise what happened, and assign any blame as they see fit.
Had they done it this way, likely, half of the bloggers/journalists would have taken Apple's side and made Tim's apology unnecessary.
Finally, All this bad publicity and Tim's apology -- is still publicity.
Apple has accepted the challenge in the public forum -- now, all they need do is "perform" and fix the problems. Once they do that, they will have a net gain from the publicity... one step back, then a leap forward for Apple.
Except that you would have a bunch of users saying "how can the richest company in the world not care enough about its users to pony-up what Google wanted for their complete mapping services" or the like. The apology was unnecessary, and this all would have settled down in a few weeks just like any other "Applegate" issue has. iOS6 has only been officially released for a week or so, so it is natural to have all eyes on it. As people calm down and the emotion subsides I like to think that rational thought would have returned.
Apple did what had to be done. It wasn't painless, but now they can look towards the future and can do it their way for their customers. They are no longer at the mercy of Google for their mapping. This is an admirable position to be in, not being dependent on a competitor. Does anyone doubt that Apple will address any outstanding issues in a very short time-frame? There are alternatives out there, but Apple looked weak in pointing them out publicly.
Count me among those that don't like things being broken up across multiple apps. I do not understand the people complaining about iTunes, having everything in one place is ALWAYS better, and iTunes as it is now is the best-of the best. It's breaking the iTunes functions up on iOS that ticks me off. I do not want to have to use 4 different apps to access the content that I have all together on one library on my Mac. It's bad UI, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers
Except that you would have a bunch of users saying "how can the richest company in the world not care enough about its users to pony-up what Google wanted for their complete mapping services" or the like.
Perhaps it was not about money. Both Google and Apple are fighting for mind share. If the deal breaker was Google branding in the Maps app or Google harvesting user data in the Maps app, there is no amount of money that can fix that.
What a lazy, cheap report by the NYT, as expected. Also, they're pretty late to the game on piling on. Instead of doing a real analysis of the new apps, and what building a mapping solution from the ground up entails, they swelve into the 'unanamed sources say Apple sucks and don't know how do do internet stuff' bullshit. This isn't 2007. Apple is now maybe only 2nd to Google in terms of Cloud expertise, and iCloud is perhaps the best, most used, and most ambitious cloud service I've ever used. It handles a myriad of things like syncing everything, full backups, photo streaming, app syncing, etc by hundreds of millions of very active users a day, and have massive bandwidth costs and scalability. The appstore is completely cloud based, and the best in the world. As is everything Apple has done in the last few years. No, maps doesn't have issues because Apple is incompetent in internet services. It's because its fucking complicated, can't be perfected in a lab, and anyone with an ounce of perspective should be able to aknowledge the ambitiousness of the project, as well as the impressive v.1 launch product. After search, this is Google's 2nd biggest product, which they've been investing billions of dollars in for the better part of a decade, with crowd sourced data from hundreds of millions during that time - yet maps is 'shit' because on day 1 it's not completely on par in SOME respects. NYT needs to get back at what it does best- toilet paper. It tells you something when half of the mocking screenshots out there are because of errors in the 3D- something that has no impact on useability, where the corresponding Google areas would be completely flat, and an example where Aple is being punished for being ultra-ambitious and using state of the art technology which of course will have growing pains instead of taking the much easier way out and using only high resolution shots. Yeah, seamlessly blending 3D and satelllite imagery from planes is not perfect ALL THE TIME- who would have thought??!
Also, I don't see how the hell deciding to do their own mapping servies is evidence of "lack of focus"? That's the very definition of "focus".
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka
My experience so far has been that Apple's maps are quite a bit more accurate than Google's. I went through my history (thanks Apple for keeping that on the new app, BTW!), and all the places I had trouble with Google were spot on with Apple. Yes, I do miss Streetview, but that's not an issue either as there is still the standalone StreetViewer app.
Like some others have posted, the claims of Apple's lack of detail seem to primarily be lies of omission. They conveniently neglect to mention that detail increases as you zoom in.
Probably because "they" neglected to use the app thoroughly to examine all of the features and just repeat what others have repeated from those same others.
NYT is annoying...the bigger issue than it really is people are annoying.
come late 2013 or early 2014 I doubt there will be much to complain about anymore...and all will be fine...and this will be forgotten.
iOS 6 Maps isn't as good as Google Maps...on Android at least...and that's fine. I don't know why everyone (including outside of this site) cares so much.
Oh I am not judging on what is better or more usable. Just illustrating that you cannot please everyone and never could.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka
Count me among those that don't like things being broken up across multiple apps. I do not understand the people complaining about iTunes, having everything in one place is ALWAYS better, and iTunes as it is now is the best-of the best. It's breaking the iTunes functions up on iOS that ticks me off. I do not want to have to use 4 different apps to access the content that I have all together on one library on my Mac. It's bad UI, IMO.
Oh, I am not judging on which is more usable. I was just illustrating that you cannot please everyone, and never could.
Google will have to embrace and extend Apple Maps if they want to remain relevant in the long term.
3rd Parties will be creating World Wide Bus, Train, Subway, Bike, Walking, Boat, Underwater/Submarine routes to be integrated in Apple Maps. No single company can provide all this information for the entire world so many 3rd parties will have to do the job. Not to mention information like demographic, political, financial, crime etc that will be provided by third parties.
If Google is smart, they will embrace and extend Apple Maps by developing 3rd party layers for Apple Maps that will make use of Google Backend Data. Because the Apple architecture is much better, you will soon see a booming Apple Maps add-on layer market from 3rd parties all over the world. Does Google wants to stand by and let others take that market on Apple Maps when it already has valuable data?
Remember PolicyMaps? http://www.policymap.com/demo.html
It a whole new gold rush similar to the Mobile Apps rush folks...
Apple has reinvented portable mapping... Time will tell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSheldon
This it the result of what happens when one decides to go all "thermonuclear"- Karma comes biting you in the ass.
Vengeance is not a righteous driving force.
Apple's mapping will never get close to Google's. Google is defined by its search and mapping engines. Who are we trying to fool here with all these ridiculous comments that it will catch up and surpass Google's ? That train left the station eons ago.
We'll see... the test of a service is the number of users/requests that use it. If millions of iOS devices (owners with great, proven demographics) substitute Siri and Apple Maps for the Google search and map offerings -- what does that do for the appeal of Google advertising?
And, those iOS user will uses Apple's offerings because they are integrated and more convenient:
Me: "Siri: How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
Siri: "Turn left on..."
You were expecting "Siri: Practice, practice, practice"?
Me: "Siri: How do I get from SFO to Cupertino?"
Siri:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Me: "Siri: How do I get to Carnegie Hall?"
Siri: "Turn left on..."
You were expecting "Siri: Practice, practice, practice"?
I think I'd actually prefer a 1 in 10 chance that she appends "and you should probably learn an instrument" to the instructions for that.
Throw in little jokes like that every so often in addition to the proper info.
With its over-the-top negativity, the NYT is expressing its anger at Apple for not releasing subscriber info.
Cook needn't have been quite so apologetic, but he needs to step back from the daily grind of running the business, to gain better overall perspective.
Another brilliant piece, calling for Forstall's head over maps, basically the guy wh architected iOS and is most responsible for Apple's current success after Jobs.
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/09/29/does-apple-have-a-scott-forstall-problem/
Quote:
"There's no excuse," Garner writes. "Quality control on Apple Maps had to have been terrible to not get this right. Bluntly, Scott Forstall should be fired over this mess."
These arm-chair analysts, who have never done anything worthwhile in their lives, are disgusting. Yeah, Forstall should be 'fired'. Who will take his place? The writer? What a bunch of vicious, "kick them when they're down" baboons. What an utter lack of perspective. The guy is in charge of the most successful mobile OS on the planet. Give him a shred of credit, you fuckwits. He's the closest thing to a Jobs that Apple has, or will ever have. Maybe SJ should have quit after any one of the number of "blunders" under his watch too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Perhaps it was not about money. Both Google and Apple are fighting for mind share. If the deal breaker was Google branding in the Maps app or Google harvesting user data in the Maps app, there is no amount of money that can fix that.
I agree, the sticking points of the negotiation are unknown. We hear "sources close to the situation" mention what you did above, but the devil is in the details. Mindshare is not lacking for either company, so I don't understand why Google would be haggling over branding. It is the back-end data that they want, so I could see that as a potential road-block. However, the sensationalist headlines are just that Apple dumped Google Maps and Apple's maps suck, which average users read as "they don't care about the customer, look what they left us with...", not seeing the big picture. It used to be that the only two issues that would bring rational people to blows(and not the good kind) would be politics and religion. Add Apple to that list now.
I think I'd actually prefer a 1 in 10 chance that she appends "and you should probably learn an instrument" to the instructions for that.
Throw in little jokes like that every so often in addition to the proper info.
She is already a sassy bitch you don't need to encourage her.