Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, like he really needed one? I think Mark could've afforded to buy an unlocked version and still have some chump change left. It must be nice.
Which is it -- the dock connector doesn't have enough pins for everything, or it has more than enough pins to accommodate everything you need?
Pretty simple: it doesn't have enough pins for USB. Firewire, HDMI, composite video, component video, RS-232, and stereo audio all enabled at the same time in the same connector, so pins are overloaded and functionality is enabled / disabled by signaling certain control pins with specific voltages, but if you can afford to have everything else disabled, there's more than enough room for at least 3x USB 3.0 implementations in parallel in a single Dock Connector.
I'm coherent, not consistent. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't fall into the trap of letting my opinions become a part of my identity because I accept the possibility of being wrong.
Pretty simple: it doesn't have enough pins for USB. Firewire, HDMI, composite video, component video, RS-232, and stereo audio all enabled at the same time in the same connector, so pins are overloaded and functionality is enabled / disabled by signaling certain control pins with specific voltages, but if you can afford to have everything else disabled, there's more than enough room for at least 3x USB 3.0 implementations in parallel in a single Dock Connector.
Why would I want a connector in which I have to choose? My understanding is that with Lighting, you could literally enable all of those things simultaneously, just like Thunderbolt.
As far as this theory of yours, I have at least a dozen docks that I've purchased since 2005 that have been obsoleted by each new iPod and iPhone. And that's with the exact same connector. Since Apple doesn't support these docks with each new generation, what is the point of the 30-pin docking connector? According to you, at least up to the iPhones 4S and new iPad, every 30-pin dock I ever bought should work perfectly with every Apple device with a matching dock connector, no? Did I miss something? And if not, why wouldn't I want to replace it with something that could provide any and all signals I needed, via dedicated chips in the dock, without ever having to worry whether Apple would support it in the future? Sure it increases the cost in the short term, but that's always the case with innovation. The scale of idevices companies will be manufacturing for guarantees volume will bring the costs down quickly.
Moreover, wireless has replaced almost every function of the dock connector except charging. Considering the multi-functionality of the connector is quickly becoming obsolete for the majority of traditional uses, why would anyone even care how many discrete signals it could handle in the future?
Where he broke into their computers and stole students' pictures. And letting students on the college's network vote on other students' photo attractiveness. Class act, that guy.
What surprised me was that Facebook had many times more action than Twitter... and more so that Google+ was vanishingly unimportant despite the fanfare about 100+ million users a short time after launch 18 months ago.
Because unlike the people who like to call me an idiot, I'm smart enough to not fall for the mistake of making my opinions part of my identity. I'm not a fundamentalist, I own the best two iOS devices ever conceived and am pretty happy with them. Perhaps the day the time comes to replace them I may decide to jump ship should Apple still be misguided.
Care to explain exactly why the Dock Connector was long overdue? Because I don't recall any real complaints about it... The switch brought a lot of inconvenience for very little benefit; the new connector is not exactly Firewire or Thunderbolt.
Well to start off:
1) The dock connector is 80% smaller. Which means iOS devices can be made smaller and improvements like moving the headphone jack to the bottom can now be done.
2) The new connector is reversible and easier to plug in. This doesnt seem like a big deal, until you actually use it. As a person who owns both the iPhone5 & iPad2. I can tell you plugging in the iPhone5 to charge or sync is an absolute joy. Its a huge improvement and makes much more sense. Hell I can plug in my phone in complete darkness.
3) The new connector is all digital. And it can dynamically assign pins. The only thing we've seen so far is a USB 2.0 cable & old connector adapter. But both of these upgrades bring "next gen" abilites to the Apple connector. In the next year expect to see plenty of new acccessories able to use the new digital, dynamic pins. Like Firewire & Thunderbolt cables.
4) Apple used the last connector for 10 years. Seriously.. they have changed the connector once in 10 years and you are crying about that?
Why would I want a connector in which I have to choose? My understanding is that with Lighting, you could literally enable all of those things simultaneously, just like Thunderbolt.
Your understanding is wrong; the Lightning connector does not offer any kind audio or video functionality. While you could stream that through USB, you can also stream that through the USB and Firewire ports on the Dock Connector. Oh, and by the way, Firewire is a lot more similar to Thunderbolt than USB, because it allows the operating system to access hardware directly.
As far as this theory of yours, I have at least a dozen docks that I've purchased since 2005 that have been obsoleted by each new iPod and iPhone.
Mind to name examples? Unless they rely on Firewire (which requires driver support on both sides), that is unlikely to happen. The USB client and host, RS-232, component video, composite video, HDMI, and analog audio are all perfectly supported on the iPhone 4S and iPad 3G; it's only Firewire that has fallen out of use.
And if not, why wouldn't I want to replace it with something that could provide any and all signals I needed, via dedicated chips in the dock, without ever having to worry whether Apple would support it in the future? Sure it increases the cost in the short term, but that's always the case with innovation. The scale of idevices companies will be manufacturing for guarantees volume will bring the costs down quickly.
You're still relying on Apple to support everything on iOS, and at the moment they don't really support anything, so they've already failed you.
Moreover, wireless has replaced almost every function of the dock connector except charging. Considering the multi-functionality of the connector is quickly becoming obsolete for the majority of traditional uses, why would anyone even care how many discrete signals it could handle in the future?
Wireless will only replace the Dock Connector when you gain the ability to stream AV to other devices without an Apple TV in the middle. This hasn't happened yet, and there are no signs that it is likely to happen, especially with Apple blatantly ignoring most of the standard Bluetooth profiles.
1) The dock connector is 80% smaller. Which means iOS devices can be made smaller and improvements like moving the headphone jack to the bottom can now be done.
2) The new connector is reversible and easier to plug in. This doesnt seem like a big deal, until you actually use it. As a person who owns both the iPhone5 & iPad2. I can tell you plugging in the iPhone5 to charge or sync is an absolute joy. Its a huge improvement and makes much more sense. Hell I can plug in my phone in complete darkness.
Still a nearly insignificant improvement without absolutely any technical merit compared to what was lost as a compromise.
3) The new connector is all digital. And it can dynamically assign pins. The only thing we've seen so far is a USB 2.0 cable & old connector adapter. But both of these upgrades bring "next gen" abilites to the Apple connector. In the next year expect to see plenty of new acccessories able to use the new digital, dynamic pins. Like Firewire & Thunderbolt cables.
4) Apple used the last connector for 10 years. Seriously.. they have changed the connector once in 10 years and you are crying about that?
I hope you understand that being "all digital" is a limitation, not a feature; it's all digital because it has completely lost the ability to stream analog. The Dock Connector is able to provide all the digital functionality the Lightning Connector can and more on top of also providing analog AV. Change for better or for obsolescence is good, but the Lightning Connector is technically inferior and its only advantage is the practicability of not having a correct direction (which isn't even innovative).
So yes, but no, is what you're saying. It's good, but it's bad.
Nope, I never said that the Lightning Connector was a good thing, I said that changing to it could potentially be good if it rendered the Dock Connector obsolete, which it didn't.
How does a blatant troll like you make it to moderator?
The part where you said that Apple doesn't support anything, which is blindingly evident given the response I gave to that specific part of your post.
Then I'm sure you can refute me.
Your belief is subjectivity passed off as fact. It's refuted by reading about the new standard and having knowledge of the modern state of electronics.
I don't recall HDMI in 1979.
Exactly, so analog output made sense then.
Nope, I never said that the Lightning Connector was a good thing, I said that changing to it could potentially be good if it rendered the Dock Connector obsolete, which it didn't.
Yes, the port that has been available for twelve days on one product has not made old technology obsolete. It is a COMPLETE FAILURE and should NEVER HAVE BEEN RELEASED.
How does a blatant troll like you make it to moderator?
How does a blatant troll like you keep posting here? The world has its mysteries.
The part where you said that Apple doesn't support anything, which is blindingly evident given the response I gave to that specific part of your post.
That quote had a context; I'm wondering whether you read and understood it (since you didn't quote it), and if you read it, then what do you not understand considering that context?
Your belief is subjectivity passed off as fact. It's refuted by reading about the new standard and having knowledge of the modern state of electronics.
Your reasoning is flawed due to being based on an unfounded belief that modern technology is always superior to older technology.
You miss the point: there's no HDMI in the Lightning Connector, but there is in the Dock Connector. There is no Firewire in the Lightning Connector, but there is in the Dock Connector. USB 2.0 is both slower and less functional than Firewire 800. These are all downgrades, in addition to the loss of support for analog AV, which even HDMI does NOT obsolete.
Your reasoning is flawed due to your unfounded belief that modern technology is always superior to older technology…
At no point did I say or even imply that, so enjoy your strawman.
There is no Firewire in the Lightning Connector, but there is in the Dock Connector.
Not for like FIVE YEARS, there hasn't been! And it couldn't pump at 800 speeds in the first place!
USB 2.0 is both slower and less functional than Firewire 800.
Guess what Dock Connector can't do? USB 3 and Thunderbolt. Huh. Wonder if those're faster.
I'm reasonable, that's not trolling. Posting "lolwuit?" to a quote out of context, however, is not being reasonable.
So explain, then, what you mean. You're afraid they won't support the connection of external hard drives? Or those tiny Bluetooth/Wi-Fi dongles. Maybe one of those bendy lights or fans. And the USB humping dog is always a support necessity.
So explain, then, what you mean. You're afraid they won't support the connection of external hard drives? Or those tiny Bluetooth/Wi-Fi dongles. Maybe one of those bendy lights or fans. And the USB humping dog is always a support necessity.
I've already done so several times in this thread, reading previous posts would have saved you from posting the bullshit about USB 3.0 you posted above (among other things). Let me repeat myself here: it is alright to replace functionality that has been rendered completely obsolete by viable alternatives; this is what happened to floppies (replaced by thumb drives) and all the other things Apple dropped over time, but not with the Dock Connector, as now you are completely unable to trivially stream AV out of an iPhone 5, the Lightning Connector has zero technical advantages over the Dock Connector, and the practical gains were very little compared to the losses, so this was a really bad switch.
I've already done so several times in this thread, reading previous posts would have saved you from posting the bullshit about USB 3.0 you posted above (among other things).
Okay, we are done, I guess.
…it is alright to replace functionality that has been rendered completely obsolete by viable alternatives…
Guess what has been rendered obsolete by digital stuff. Guess what, if you want to think it hasn't yet, is now actively being obsoleted by Lightning.
There's a difference between what is currently supported and what can potentially be supported. You claimed that the Dock Connector CAN NOT support Thunderbolt or USB 3.0, implying that there is a fundamental flaw in the Dock Connector preventing such, so what is that flaw, and since when has it existed?
Guess what has been rendered obsolete by digital stuff. Guess what, if you want to think it hasn't yet, is now actively being obsoleted by Lightning.
I don't know, you tell me. DJs are still using vinyl, there are still plenty of wired speakers without digital support out there, all current TV sets still support analog input, even the Apple TV has analog sockets, so really, tell me, what exactly has been rendered obsolete? Also, don't confuse obsolescence with discontinuation. Just because the Dock Connector has been discontinued doesn't mean it has become obsolete.
Comments
Pretty simple: it doesn't have enough pins for USB. Firewire, HDMI, composite video, component video, RS-232, and stereo audio all enabled at the same time in the same connector, so pins are overloaded and functionality is enabled / disabled by signaling certain control pins with specific voltages, but if you can afford to have everything else disabled, there's more than enough room for at least 3x USB 3.0 implementations in parallel in a single Dock Connector.
I'm coherent, not consistent. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't fall into the trap of letting my opinions become a part of my identity because I accept the possibility of being wrong.
Time to start wearing at least golf shirts with a collar and a button.
Or at least double digit
As far as this theory of yours, I have at least a dozen docks that I've purchased since 2005 that have been obsoleted by each new iPod and iPhone. And that's with the exact same connector. Since Apple doesn't support these docks with each new generation, what is the point of the 30-pin docking connector? According to you, at least up to the iPhones 4S and new iPad, every 30-pin dock I ever bought should work perfectly with every Apple device with a matching dock connector, no? Did I miss something? And if not, why wouldn't I want to replace it with something that could provide any and all signals I needed, via dedicated chips in the dock, without ever having to worry whether Apple would support it in the future? Sure it increases the cost in the short term, but that's always the case with innovation. The scale of idevices companies will be manufacturing for guarantees volume will bring the costs down quickly.
Moreover, wireless has replaced almost every function of the dock connector except charging. Considering the multi-functionality of the connector is quickly becoming obsolete for the majority of traditional uses, why would anyone even care how many discrete signals it could handle in the future?
Where he broke into their computers and stole students' pictures. And letting students on the college's network vote on other students' photo attractiveness. Class act, that guy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evoken
lol, Apple turning away from Google only to get entangled with Facebook.
I checked out a few different websites last week to see how readers reacted when "liking" articles, and the results surprised me...
As a few examples...
Dr.Mercola.com... Facebook 271 likes; Twitter 39; Google+ 6.
The Diplomat... FB 200; Twitter 32; G+ 16.
Mercola (GM Corn article) FB 9,753; Twitter 421; G+ 63.
Asbestos Daily News FB 80; Twitter 1135; G+ 0.
Daily Mail on-line FB 324; Twitter 44; G+ 0.
Mercola (Bacteria article) FB 305; Twitter 36; G+ 4.
What surprised me was that Facebook had many times more action than Twitter... and more so that Google+ was vanishingly unimportant despite the fanfare about 100+ million users a short time after launch 18 months ago.
Originally Posted by Rodent
How nice, he has a driver so he don't need great mapping.
And you have a computer, but you still need proper grammar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Because unlike the people who like to call me an idiot, I'm smart enough to not fall for the mistake of making my opinions part of my identity. I'm not a fundamentalist, I own the best two iOS devices ever conceived and am pretty happy with them. Perhaps the day the time comes to replace them I may decide to jump ship should Apple still be misguided.
Care to explain exactly why the Dock Connector was long overdue? Because I don't recall any real complaints about it... The switch brought a lot of inconvenience for very little benefit; the new connector is not exactly Firewire or Thunderbolt.
Well to start off:
1) The dock connector is 80% smaller. Which means iOS devices can be made smaller and improvements like moving the headphone jack to the bottom can now be done.
2) The new connector is reversible and easier to plug in. This doesnt seem like a big deal, until you actually use it. As a person who owns both the iPhone5 & iPad2. I can tell you plugging in the iPhone5 to charge or sync is an absolute joy. Its a huge improvement and makes much more sense. Hell I can plug in my phone in complete darkness.
3) The new connector is all digital. And it can dynamically assign pins. The only thing we've seen so far is a USB 2.0 cable & old connector adapter. But both of these upgrades bring "next gen" abilites to the Apple connector. In the next year expect to see plenty of new acccessories able to use the new digital, dynamic pins. Like Firewire & Thunderbolt cables.
4) Apple used the last connector for 10 years. Seriously.. they have changed the connector once in 10 years and you are crying about that?
Your understanding is wrong; the Lightning connector does not offer any kind audio or video functionality. While you could stream that through USB, you can also stream that through the USB and Firewire ports on the Dock Connector. Oh, and by the way, Firewire is a lot more similar to Thunderbolt than USB, because it allows the operating system to access hardware directly.
Mind to name examples? Unless they rely on Firewire (which requires driver support on both sides), that is unlikely to happen. The USB client and host, RS-232, component video, composite video, HDMI, and analog audio are all perfectly supported on the iPhone 4S and iPad 3G; it's only Firewire that has fallen out of use.
You're still relying on Apple to support everything on iOS, and at the moment they don't really support anything, so they've already failed you.
Wireless will only replace the Dock Connector when you gain the ability to stream AV to other devices without an Apple TV in the middle. This hasn't happened yet, and there are no signs that it is likely to happen, especially with Apple blatantly ignoring most of the standard Bluetooth profiles.
Still a nearly insignificant improvement without absolutely any technical merit compared to what was lost as a compromise.
I hope you understand that being "all digital" is a limitation, not a feature; it's all digital because it has completely lost the ability to stream analog. The Dock Connector is able to provide all the digital functionality the Lightning Connector can and more on top of also providing analog AV. Change for better or for obsolescence is good, but the Lightning Connector is technically inferior and its only advantage is the practicability of not having a correct direction (which isn't even innovative).
Originally Posted by Vaelian
You're still relying on Apple to support everything on iOS, and at the moment they don't really support anything, so they've already failed you.
lolwut?
Still a nearly insignificant improvement without absolutely any technical merit compared to what was lost as a compromise.
Sure it wasn't.
I hope you understand that being "all digital" is a limitation, not a feature
I hope you understand it's 2012, not 1979.
Change for better or for obsolescence is good, but the Lightning Connector is technically inferior…
So yes, but no, is what you're saying. It's good, but it's bad.
What did you not understand?
Then I'm sure you can refute me.
I don't recall HDMI in 1979.
Nope, I never said that the Lightning Connector was a good thing, I said that changing to it could potentially be good if it rendered the Dock Connector obsolete, which it didn't.
How does a blatant troll like you make it to moderator?
Originally Posted by Vaelian
What did you not understand?
The part where you said that Apple doesn't support anything, which is blindingly evident given the response I gave to that specific part of your post.
Then I'm sure you can refute me.
Your belief is subjectivity passed off as fact. It's refuted by reading about the new standard and having knowledge of the modern state of electronics.
I don't recall HDMI in 1979.
Exactly, so analog output made sense then.
Nope, I never said that the Lightning Connector was a good thing, I said that changing to it could potentially be good if it rendered the Dock Connector obsolete, which it didn't.
Yes, the port that has been available for twelve days on one product has not made old technology obsolete. It is a COMPLETE FAILURE and should NEVER HAVE BEEN RELEASED.
How does a blatant troll like you make it to moderator?
How does a blatant troll like you keep posting here?
That quote had a context; I'm wondering whether you read and understood it (since you didn't quote it), and if you read it, then what do you not understand considering that context?
Your reasoning is flawed due to being based on an unfounded belief that modern technology is always superior to older technology.
You miss the point: there's no HDMI in the Lightning Connector, but there is in the Dock Connector. There is no Firewire in the Lightning Connector, but there is in the Dock Connector. USB 2.0 is both slower and less functional than Firewire 800. These are all downgrades, in addition to the loss of support for analog AV, which even HDMI does NOT obsolete.
I'm reasonable, that's not trolling. Posting "lolwuit?" to a quote out of context, however, is not being reasonable.
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Your reasoning is flawed due to your unfounded belief that modern technology is always superior to older technology…
At no point did I say or even imply that, so enjoy your strawman.
There is no Firewire in the Lightning Connector, but there is in the Dock Connector.
Not for like FIVE YEARS, there hasn't been! And it couldn't pump at 800 speeds in the first place!
USB 2.0 is both slower and less functional than Firewire 800.
Guess what Dock Connector can't do? USB 3 and Thunderbolt. Huh. Wonder if those're faster.
I'm reasonable, that's not trolling. Posting "lolwuit?" to a quote out of context, however, is not being reasonable.
So explain, then, what you mean. You're afraid they won't support the connection of external hard drives? Or those tiny Bluetooth/Wi-Fi dongles. Maybe one of those bendy lights or fans. And the USB humping dog is always a support necessity.
Sorry, I misread your reply. Mind to quote the relevant parts of the standard that would make it impossible to implement on the Dock Connector?
Since when?
I've already done so several times in this thread, reading previous posts would have saved you from posting the bullshit about USB 3.0 you posted above (among other things). Let me repeat myself here: it is alright to replace functionality that has been rendered completely obsolete by viable alternatives; this is what happened to floppies (replaced by thumb drives) and all the other things Apple dropped over time, but not with the Dock Connector, as now you are completely unable to trivially stream AV out of an iPhone 5, the Lightning Connector has zero technical advantages over the Dock Connector, and the practical gains were very little compared to the losses, so this was a really bad switch.
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Since when?
Since the port was introduced in 2002.
I've already done so several times in this thread, reading previous posts would have saved you from posting the bullshit about USB 3.0 you posted above (among other things).
Okay, we are done, I guess.
…it is alright to replace functionality that has been rendered completely obsolete by viable alternatives…
Guess what has been rendered obsolete by digital stuff. Guess what, if you want to think it hasn't yet, is now actively being obsoleted by Lightning.
There's a difference between what is currently supported and what can potentially be supported. You claimed that the Dock Connector CAN NOT support Thunderbolt or USB 3.0, implying that there is a fundamental flaw in the Dock Connector preventing such, so what is that flaw, and since when has it existed?
If you're out of arguments, then I guess we are...
I don't know, you tell me. DJs are still using vinyl, there are still plenty of wired speakers without digital support out there, all current TV sets still support analog input, even the Apple TV has analog sockets, so really, tell me, what exactly has been rendered obsolete? Also, don't confuse obsolescence with discontinuation. Just because the Dock Connector has been discontinued doesn't mean it has become obsolete.