The difference here is that the Lightning Connector and iOS 6 were both compromises rather than improvements. Following your comment's context, you can basically stream HDMI off an iPhone 4S and iPad 3G, but not from an iPhone 5.
What is wrong with "airplay". Apple is moving more and more to wireless technologies to replace previous "cabled" only functions. Or haven't you noticed?
I'm screwed by this change more than most as I manufacture an Authorized MFI iDevice accessory using the 30 pin connector and have over 100K of inventory . But you know what, it has only spurred me to accelerate development of a Bluetooth version which I planned to do anyway as I saw the writing on the wall.
What is wrong with "airplay". Apple is moving more and more to wireless technologies to replace previous "cabled" only functions. Or haven't you noticed?
Nothing wrong with airplay, really, but it doesn't replace the convenience of the cables, especially the analog ones, which you can connect to pretty much any projector in the world to give a presentation right off your iDevice, demo B2B apps, etc.
Still a nearly insignificant improvement without absolutely any technical merit compared to what was lost as a compromise.
I hope you understand that being "all digital" is a limitation, not a feature; it's all digital because it has completely lost the ability to stream analog. The Dock Connector is able to provide all the digital functionality the Lightning Connector can and more on top of also providing analog AV. Change for better or for obsolescence is good, but the Lightning Connector is technically inferior and its only advantage is the practicability of not having a correct direction (which isn't even innovative).
Its insignificant to YOU, because you have not seen or know what future for the new connector holds. Its about the future, not the past. You are labeling the new connector as inferior because it has dropped support of some older analogue products & interfaces. But reality is that every degree of medium absorption (audio, video, storage, connectivity).. has already moved from analog to digital. In the audio world it was from cassettes to CDs. In the video world it was from VHS to DVD. In the storage world with was from tape to optical/electrical/mechnical. And in connectivity component & RF cable.. has given way to HDMI & SPDIF/Toshlink optical. Even live TV broadcast channels have moved from analogue to digital.. and you need a digital tuner to watch. Even in cars, pretty much every car sold today technology would be considered "inferior technology" to you.. because none are able to play cassette tapes & 8-track tapes anymore.
Stop looking back & start looking forward. In the home.. computers, displays & stereos are all moving away from analog connectors. Yet you seem surprised and disappointed Apple has moved away from analog, even as someone else pointed out that Apple has set the lead moving away from old tech (5.25" floppies, 3.5" floppies, PS/2 Ports, Parallel ports, VGA, Optical drives). Whats more surprising to me, is that Apple stuck with the 30pin connector for 10 years. But Airplay seems to be the final nail in the analog coffin.
At the end of the day, you always have the option not to purchase new Apple tech.. because it uses the new connector. If you truly believe the 30pin was so great. And Id love to come back revisit this topic a few years from now about your belief that the old connector was "technically superior". Nothing like watching a random guy off the internet teach Apple a lesson or two about technology. After all.. when they dropped support for the floppy, PS/2, parallel, VGA port & optical drives.. that surely turned out to be a huge mistake for them. Right? And the whole consumer electronics market revolted against them and those "limited" connection decisions that Apple made. No way Apple became the most successful company (not just most successful tech-company) after making such horrible limited & inferior decisions about connectivity. Right?
To Tallest Skil, Daekwan and Vaelian (and others to a lesser degree):
Not sure if this debate will fade out from here or if there is still good material coming, but I just had to say you all totally made my day. I love good discussions like this that are full of tech knowledge and personal opinion, presented with correct grammar and intelligent thought. Most threads here devolve into stupid fanboi-isms (if they didn't start that way from the beginning).
You guys kept it civil and didn't even use much profanity, and kept insults to a minimum. I am fairly tech savvy, but not on your levels. In any case, I just wanted to say thanks. Very interesting and informative. Appleinsider needs much more of this in the forums. Personally I am a huge fan of the new Lightning connector and iOS 6, but I can't wait to see where this debate goes next.
Your understanding is wrong; the Lightning connector does not offer any kind audio or video functionality.
Mind to name examples? Unless they rely on Firewire (which requires driver support on both sides), that is unlikely to happen. The USB client and host, RS-232, component video, composite video, HDMI, and analog audio are all perfectly supported on the iPhone 4S and iPad 3G; it's only Firewire that has fallen out of use.
First, from reading your post, you seem to be most concerned about analogue audio. As long as you have a 1/8" audio plug, there's your analogue audio. Personally I find it superior to the analogue output from the dock connector which tends to introduce more noise. If you are desperate for it on the iPhone 5, there's a handy dandy adapter that offers it. Problem solved, or just buy e 4S which will be around for another 2 years.
And I'm pretty sure I don't misunderstand lighting as much as your reply suggests. Lightening offers any kind of signal you can think of. There's a digital audio signal, which again Apple's handy dandy adapter breaks out. And you know what? Any dock made for lighting will also offer that functionality. As for the legacy analogue output, well that was accomplished by Apple's D/A chip in the iDevice. I've never felt Apple's D/A converters were anywhere near as good as external solutions, and ALWAYS bought my audio docks that had higher quality D/A solutions taking the docks digital stream. Only CHEAP docks offered only analogue from the dock connector. I won't have them. lightening now forces manufacturers to provide the best possible audio by using built-in D/A converters, with a by product that noise will be greatly reduced from the signal over what Apple could offer in legacy iDevices.
And don't recall every dock that stopped supporting one device or another, but the most recent one to hit the trash heap was my very expensive Monster Cable FM Transmitter. It stopped compatibility with the original iPhone by introducing static into the signal, which I lived with until the iPhone 4 when it would not support CHARGING!! That's the basic thing a dock is supposed to do, and it affected dozens of docks because Apple changed the pin assignments. There was a huge outcry over that too, but I guess people don't care to remember that. And that wasn't the first nor last time that will happen.
Nothing wrong with airplay, really, but it doesn't replace the convenience of the cables, especially the analog ones, which you can connect to pretty much any projector in the world to give a presentation right off your iDevice, demo B2B apps, etc.
Convenience of cables!? Oh yeah that's what I've been missing since I moved to a laptop from my desktop. And I didn't realize that iDevices had a built-in VGA connector. Oh that's right ... they don't. You have to plug them into a dongle, or a projector equipped with a dock. But if that's the case, why not just take the digital stream, and instead of splitting out the inferior analogue audio signal, insert a higher quality D/A chip and get a better quality signal overall, maybe even carry one adapter instead of 3, or four that will break out ANY video signal you need: VGA, RGB, Composite, HDMI, DVI, etc ... Right now to get that kind of functionality, you have to carry around a bag full of dongles and adapters. And I find HDMI inputs are available almost everywhere there used to only be a VGA, and guess what HDMI outputs a far better picture. Hard to imagine since digital is so inferior to analogue.
And don't get me started on the docks that were obsoleted by Apples changing analogue video implementation.
The irony of your post is that the iDevices are inherently digital. Apple has merely moved the D/A converters into the docks, where they SHOULD anyway. With any luck, Apple will reduce the number of cheap imports offering counterfeit dock connectors that mainly take Apple's audio signal and run it through a cheap amp resulting in an inferior experience most people tend to blame on Apple rather than the dock they picked up in a bargain bin at Ross, or Marshall's.
Its insignificant to YOU, because you have not seen or know what future for the new connector holds. Its about the future, not the past.
It's insignificant to everyone because there's nothing you can do with the Lightning Connector that you couldn't already do with the Dock Connector, there's nothing you can implement on the Lightning Connector that you can not implement on the Dock Connector, but there are things the Dock Connector has that the Lightning Connector will never have.
You are labeling the new connector as inferior because it has dropped support of some older analogue products & interfaces. But reality is that every degree of medium absorption (audio, video, storage, connectivity).. has already moved from analog to digital. In the audio world it was from cassettes to CDs. In the video world it was from VHS to DVD. In the storage world with was from tape to optical/electrical/mechnical. And in connectivity component & RF cable.. has given way to HDMI & SPDIF/Toshlink optical. Even live TV broadcast channels have moved from analogue to digital.. and you need a digital tuner to watch. Even in cars, pretty much every car sold today technology would be considered "inferior technology" to you.. because none are able to play cassette tapes & 8-track tapes anymore.
I'm labeling it as inferior because it has dropped support for technology that is still widely used, trivial, portable, and for which there is no suitable replacement (even HDMI, that the Lightning Connector does not support is far from being a suitable replacement).
Stop looking back & start looking forward. In the home.. computers, displays & stereos are all moving away from analog connectors. Yet you seem surprised and disappointed Apple has moved away from analog, even as someone else pointed out that Apple has set the lead moving away from old tech (<span style="background-color:rgb(226,225,225);color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:'lucida grande', verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:normal;">5.25" floppies, 3.5" floppies, PS/2 Ports, Parallel ports, VGA, Optical drives</span>
<span style="line-height:normal;color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:'lucida grande', verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;">). Whats more surprising to me, is that Apple stuck with the 30pin connector for 10 years. But Airplay seems to be the final nail in the analog coffin. </span>
I'm not looking back, I'm thinking about all the stuff I can do with both my iPhone 4S and iPad 3G right now and won't be able to do with their next generations. I had great plans for dual-screen apps that could take advantage of both the analog and digital adapters, but with the move to the Lightning Connector, my plans have been shattered, because in order to have a dual screen now people will be required to buy and set up an Apple TV, which is no longer convenient as it's not "just a cable". I will also be inconvenienced every time I wish to record the output of one of my apps because there really is no way to record from AirPlay, and don't even get me started about the apparatus required to give a presentation, which will make it even less convenient from an iPhone than from a Mac, when it should be the other way around.
The Apple that I trusted for quality and innovation seems to have died with Jobs.
First, from reading your post, you seem to be most concerned about analogue audio. As long as you have a 1/8" audio plug, there's your analogue audio. Personally I find it superior to the analogue output from the dock connector which tends to introduce more noise. If you are desperate for it on the iPhone 5, there's a handy dandy adapter that offers it. Problem solved, or just buy e 4S which will be around for another 2 years.
No, I'm concerned about AV as a whole, both analog and digital, and the adapter doesn't stream any form of it, it is simply unsupported on the iPhone 5. I'm not saying this can not change in the future, they can always stream AV through USB and convert it with an adapter, but right there's no support whatsoever.
And I'm pretty sure I don't misunderstand lighting as much as your reply suggests. Lightening offers any kind of signal you can think of. There's a digital audio signal, which again Apple's handy dandy adapter breaks out. And you know what? Any dock made for lighting will also offer that functionality. As for the legacy analogue output, well that was accomplished by Apple's D/A chip in the iDevice. I've never felt Apple's D/A converters were anywhere near as good as external solutions, and ALWAYS bought my audio docks that had higher quality D/A solutions taking the docks digital stream. Only CHEAP docks offered only analogue from the dock connector. I won't have them. lightening now forces manufacturers to provide the best possible audio by using built-in D/A converters, with a by product that noise will be greatly reduced from the signal over what Apple could offer in legacy iDevices.
Who cares? They were there to be convenient, not state of the art; for the latter you had HDMI on the iPhone 4S and iPad 3G, something you DON'T have on the iPhone 5. Also, like above, I'm not exactly sure what adapter you're talking about since the Lightning to Dock adapter does not stream AV.
And don't recall every dock that stopped supporting one device or another, but the most recent one to hit the trash heap was my very expensive Monster Cable FM Transmitter. It stopped compatibility with the original iPhone by introducing static into the signal, which I lived with until the iPhone 4 when it would not support CHARGING!! That's the basic thing a dock is supposed to do, and it affected dozens of docks because Apple changed the pin assignments. There was a huge outcry over that too, but I guess people don't care to remember that. And that wasn't the first nor last time that will happen.
I wasn't aware of this, but changing the pins is a lot better than outright removing the functionality.
Convenience of cables!? Oh yeah that's what I've been missing since I moved to a laptop from my desktop. And I didn't realize that iDevices had a built-in VGA connector. Oh that's right ... they don't. You have to plug them into a dongle, or a projector equipped with a dock.
They have composite / component video as well as analog audio, not to mention HDMI.
But if that's the case, why not just take the digital stream, and instead of splitting out the inferior analogue audio signal, insert a higher quality D/A chip and get a better quality signal overall, maybe even carry one adapter instead of 3, or four that will break out ANY video signal you need: VGA, RGB, Composite, HDMI, DVI, etc ... Right now to get that kind of functionality, you have to carry around a bag full of dongles and adapters. And I find HDMI inputs are available almost everywhere there used to only be a VGA, and guess what HDMI outputs a far better picture. Hard to imagine since digital is so inferior to analogue.
What exactly is your point there? The Lightning Connector does NOT support any of that, not even HDMI! Right now you have to carry an Apple TV and some wi-fi router just to replicate the functionality of an iPhone 4S on an iPhone 5!
The irony of your post is that the iDevices are inherently digital. Apple has merely moved the D/A converters into the docks, where they SHOULD anyway. With any luck, Apple will reduce the number of cheap imports offering counterfeit dock connectors that mainly take Apple's audio signal and run it through a cheap amp resulting in an inferior experience most people tend to blame on Apple rather than the dock they picked up in a bargain bin at Ross, or Marshall's.
I see absolutely no practical reasons for them to move the converters off the devices, really. That'll only make accessories more expensive as the same functionality that was in the device before now has to be replicated in everything you buy.
It's insignificant to everyone because there's nothing you can do with the Lightning Connector that you couldn't already do with the Dock Connector…
Yet.
…there's nothing you can implement on the Lightning Connector that you can not implement on the Dock Connector…
Proof? Seen any Dock Connector to Thunderbolt cables lately? Or even Dock Connector to FireWire 800 that transfers at 800 speeds? Nope.
I'm labeling it as inferior because it has dropped support for technology that is still widely used, trivial, portable, and for which there is no suitable replacement
Perhaps it's that triviality that led Apple to drop it.
The Apple that I trusted for quality and innovation seems to have died with Jobs.
Thanks for keeping my own pessimism about New Apple in check by going all out and discrediting absolutely everything they're doing.
They were there to be convenient, not state of the art…
And now they're here to be state of the art. Kind of like USB when it was introduced. And all the kvetching in the world didn't stop that from happening.
I would like to see Tim give a new iPhone away to Balmer, he is not getting any richer. Plus if Tim could rig it to video the in-house fighting in the Balmer household showing the kiddies and wife clamering for the new iPhone and Balmer telling them no - pricelesss.
even HDMI, that the Lightning Connector does not support is far from being a suitable replacement)...
I had great plans for dual-screen apps that could take advantage of both the analog and digital adapters, but with the move to the Lightning Connector, my plans have been shattered, because in order to have a dual screen now people will be required to buy and set up an Apple TV, which is no longer convenient as it's not "just a cable". I will also be inconvenienced every time I wish to record the output of one of my apps because there really is no way to record from AirPlay, and don't even get me started about the apparatus required to give a presentation, which will make it even less convenient from an iPhone than from a Mac, when it should be the other way around. ...
No, I'm concerned about AV as a whole, both analog and digital, and the adapter doesn't stream any form of it, it is simply unsupported on the iPhone 5. I'm not saying this can not change in the future, they can always stream AV through USB and convert it with an adapter, but right there's no support whatsoever.
You are making absolutely baseless accusations. Of course Lightening supports all of this. It just hasn't been implemented YET. There are exactly ZERO docks available right now, aside from Apples. Apple has already said they are working on video adapters. So why do you care!? If this functionality is so important to you, buy and iPhone 4S which will still be around for two years. And these plans you had for apps, you realize Apple would have to approve those too, right? You're also aware that Apple would have to support all those options, like USB 3.0, on the 30-pin dock connector as well, right? I mean at the end of the day, no matter what connector we use, or what nifty things you'd Apps could do, we are all reliant on Apple to support them.
And, you want an Airplay enabled device you can easily set up and record from without having to buy an Apple TV -- here you go ... $59, better than any cable you could ever buy, and costs about the same.
The docks that will be available for the iPhone 5 will most certainly handle HDMi, and anything else you can think of because digital is so versatile and won't require an easily damaged 30-pin connector to do it. Are you concerned about spending a few extra dollars to get a dock with better functionality because they have to add their own D/A chip? Economies of scale will bring these devices in line within a year, just like with the adoption of USB.
You said earlier that this is not like when Apple replaced the floppy because that was obsolete technology. Well it most certainly wasn't in 1998 when Apple did it. It was a standard way to move certain files around offices, and homes. So much so that there was a THRIVING market for very expensive aftermarket USB floppy drives, which were likewise hard to come by on launch day. Moreover, any ADB, Serial, or SCSI device a Mac user had was instantly rendered obsolete because there were few if any USB equivalents, and USB drivers were mostly nonexistent for adapters. Do you recall that when the iMac was launched, there was only ONE printer available for it? Well by 1999 that had all changed. And there was a thriving market for peripherals wi many more options than ever existed for the technology USB replaced because it was so much more versatile. Lightning is going to revolutionize the possibilities of the idevice accessory industry, not limit it. The idea that somehow docks with discrete pins for every function a user wants access too is superior to digital interfaces that allow dedicated devices to tap into only what they need is ridiculous. The PowerBook Duo was one of the greatest Macs for its time, and it too utilized a 250 pin interface that tapped right into the CPU, but you know what? All of that technology has ultimately been replaced by USB, FireWire and now Thunderbolt. I would laugh at someone who told me they needed to have a 250 discreet pin bus wired into every computer and device dock manufactured. It's not as efficient, it's not as practical, it takes up a huge amount of room on both the docks and computers, and indeed, for all but one desktop docking product, it is mostly wasteful!! The same goes for the 30-pin connector. And Apple has produced at launch a perfectly functional adapter for backward compatibility to any legacy docks, covering just about everything but Video at this time. If Apple fails to address that, then you can bet a third party company will jump in and fill the void. Meanwhile Apple will come up with its own Lightening A/V adapters, just like the did for the 30-pin docking connector.
If you still can't see the future potential in going all digital with lightening, then I'm done.
And now they're here to be state of the art. Kind of like USB when it was introduced. And all the kvetching in the world didn't stop that from happening.
Just to make sure you understand it, you're actually validating many of my points with this reply.
You are making absolutely baseless accusations. Of course Lightening supports all of this. It just hasn't been implemented YET.
Accusing me of baseless speculation when you, yourself are speculating without evidence is quite funny, especially when you are the one with burden of proof because you are the one making a claim about a feature that currently does not exist.
So why do you care!? If this functionality is so important to you, buy and iPhone 4S which will still be around for two years. And these plans you had for apps, you realize Apple would have to approve those too, right? You're also aware that Apple would have to support all those options, like USB 3.0, on the 30-pin dock connector as well, right? I mean at the end of the day, no matter what connector we use, or what nifty things you'd Apps could do, we are all reliant on Apple to support them.
You're not making any sense. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I own the best two iOS devices Apple has ever conceived (the iPhone 4S and the iPad 3G), so I won't need to buy new unless one of them breaks. Regarding apps, Apple's approval is not and will never be an issue; the issue is user experience. People are less likely to experience dual screens with an iPhone 5 than with an iPhone 4S due to the former requiring an Apple TV, thus making it less worth wasting time developing for dual screens.
And, you want an Airplay enabled device you can easily set up and record from without having to buy an Apple TV -- here you go ... $59, better than any cable you could ever buy, and costs about the same.
I am going to assume that you have provided me with a wrong URL, because that cable connects to an Apple TV's HDMI port (or alternatively to an iPhone 4S / iPad 3G's HDMI adapter).
The docks that will be available for the iPhone 5 will most certainly handle HDMi, and anything else you can think of because digital is so versatile and won't require an easily damaged 30-pin connector to do it. Are you concerned about spending a few extra dollars to get a dock with better functionality because they have to add their own D/A chip? Economies of scale will bring these devices in line within a year, just like with the adoption of USB.
Currently, that functionality is not supported, so they shouldn't have switched.
You said earlier that this is not like when Apple replaced the floppy because that was obsolete technology. Well it most certainly wasn't in 1998 when Apple did it. It was a standard way to move certain files around offices, and homes. So much so that there was a THRIVING market for very expensive aftermarket USB floppy drives, which were likewise hard to come by on launch day. Moreover, any ADB, Serial, or SCSI device a Mac user had was instantly rendered obsolete because there were few if any USB equivalents, and USB drivers were mostly nonexistent for adapters.
In 1999, floppies were completely rendered obsolete by CD recorders and CD-RWs. While getting rid of them might have inconvenienced some people who were forced to upgrade their storage, no functionality was lost, as CDs were superior to floppies in every possible respect by a huge margin.
Do you recall that when the iMac was launched, there was only ONE printer available for it? Well by 1999 that had all changed. And there was a thriving market for peripherals wi many more options than ever existed for the technology USB replaced because it was so much more versatile. Lightning is going to revolutionize the possibilities of the idevice accessory industry, not limit it.
Your problem is that you are yet to understand that the Dock Connector is even more versatile than the Lightning Connector. Everything you can implement on a Lightning Connector you can implement just as well on a Dock Connector, but there are plenty of things in the Dock Connector that you can not implement on the Lightning Connector.
I guess I can speculate that because FB's stock is down 66% from where most people bought it, Cook maybe thought he could ease poor Zuckerberg's pain with a free iPhone. (Did he get the 2-year Verizon plan paid-for too?) But maybe not.
My 'beef' is not that Apple is so wealthy that it can throw money where it wants to... my gripe is that it is a trivial gesture between two wealthy people so it's just irritating that it gets news coverage.
Now if Apple started a program to give free iPhones (with paid 2-year plans) to deserving and stellar needy... _that_ would be newsworthy.
Quote: times are hard if all you give a CEO is a phone made in china that you can buy for 200 dollars. I get nicer gifts from our Corporate Printer partners. Give the man a bundle or something.
Then what will you give him then? A bundle of what? 90% of computers are made in China.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
The difference here is that the Lightning Connector and iOS 6 were both compromises rather than improvements. Following your comment's context, you can basically stream HDMI off an iPhone 4S and iPad 3G, but not from an iPhone 5.
What is wrong with "airplay". Apple is moving more and more to wireless technologies to replace previous "cabled" only functions. Or haven't you noticed?
I'm screwed by this change more than most as I manufacture an Authorized MFI iDevice accessory using the 30 pin connector and have over 100K of inventory . But you know what, it has only spurred me to accelerate development of a Bluetooth version which I planned to do anyway as I saw the writing on the wall.
Nothing wrong with airplay, really, but it doesn't replace the convenience of the cables, especially the analog ones, which you can connect to pretty much any projector in the world to give a presentation right off your iDevice, demo B2B apps, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaelian
Still a nearly insignificant improvement without absolutely any technical merit compared to what was lost as a compromise.
I hope you understand that being "all digital" is a limitation, not a feature; it's all digital because it has completely lost the ability to stream analog. The Dock Connector is able to provide all the digital functionality the Lightning Connector can and more on top of also providing analog AV. Change for better or for obsolescence is good, but the Lightning Connector is technically inferior and its only advantage is the practicability of not having a correct direction (which isn't even innovative).
Its insignificant to YOU, because you have not seen or know what future for the new connector holds. Its about the future, not the past. You are labeling the new connector as inferior because it has dropped support of some older analogue products & interfaces. But reality is that every degree of medium absorption (audio, video, storage, connectivity).. has already moved from analog to digital. In the audio world it was from cassettes to CDs. In the video world it was from VHS to DVD. In the storage world with was from tape to optical/electrical/mechnical. And in connectivity component & RF cable.. has given way to HDMI & SPDIF/Toshlink optical. Even live TV broadcast channels have moved from analogue to digital.. and you need a digital tuner to watch. Even in cars, pretty much every car sold today technology would be considered "inferior technology" to you.. because none are able to play cassette tapes & 8-track tapes anymore.
Stop looking back & start looking forward. In the home.. computers, displays & stereos are all moving away from analog connectors. Yet you seem surprised and disappointed Apple has moved away from analog, even as someone else pointed out that Apple has set the lead moving away from old tech (5.25" floppies, 3.5" floppies, PS/2 Ports, Parallel ports, VGA, Optical drives). Whats more surprising to me, is that Apple stuck with the 30pin connector for 10 years. But Airplay seems to be the final nail in the analog coffin.
At the end of the day, you always have the option not to purchase new Apple tech.. because it uses the new connector. If you truly believe the 30pin was so great. And Id love to come back revisit this topic a few years from now about your belief that the old connector was "technically superior". Nothing like watching a random guy off the internet teach Apple a lesson or two about technology. After all.. when they dropped support for the floppy, PS/2, parallel, VGA port & optical drives.. that surely turned out to be a huge mistake for them. Right? And the whole consumer electronics market revolted against them and those "limited" connection decisions that Apple made. No way Apple became the most successful company (not just most successful tech-company) after making such horrible limited & inferior decisions about connectivity. Right?
To Tallest Skil, Daekwan and Vaelian (and others to a lesser degree):
Not sure if this debate will fade out from here or if there is still good material coming, but I just had to say you all totally made my day. I love good discussions like this that are full of tech knowledge and personal opinion, presented with correct grammar and intelligent thought. Most threads here devolve into stupid fanboi-isms (if they didn't start that way from the beginning).
You guys kept it civil and didn't even use much profanity, and kept insults to a minimum. I am fairly tech savvy, but not on your levels. In any case, I just wanted to say thanks. Very interesting and informative. Appleinsider needs much more of this in the forums. Personally I am a huge fan of the new Lightning connector and iOS 6, but I can't wait to see where this debate goes next.
And I'm pretty sure I don't misunderstand lighting as much as your reply suggests. Lightening offers any kind of signal you can think of. There's a digital audio signal, which again Apple's handy dandy adapter breaks out. And you know what? Any dock made for lighting will also offer that functionality. As for the legacy analogue output, well that was accomplished by Apple's D/A chip in the iDevice. I've never felt Apple's D/A converters were anywhere near as good as external solutions, and ALWAYS bought my audio docks that had higher quality D/A solutions taking the docks digital stream. Only CHEAP docks offered only analogue from the dock connector. I won't have them. lightening now forces manufacturers to provide the best possible audio by using built-in D/A converters, with a by product that noise will be greatly reduced from the signal over what Apple could offer in legacy iDevices.
And don't recall every dock that stopped supporting one device or another, but the most recent one to hit the trash heap was my very expensive Monster Cable FM Transmitter. It stopped compatibility with the original iPhone by introducing static into the signal, which I lived with until the iPhone 4 when it would not support CHARGING!! That's the basic thing a dock is supposed to do, and it affected dozens of docks because Apple changed the pin assignments. There was a huge outcry over that too, but I guess people don't care to remember that. And that wasn't the first nor last time that will happen. Convenience of cables!? Oh yeah that's what I've been missing since I moved to a laptop from my desktop. And I didn't realize that iDevices had a built-in VGA connector. Oh that's right ... they don't. You have to plug them into a dongle, or a projector equipped with a dock. But if that's the case, why not just take the digital stream, and instead of splitting out the inferior analogue audio signal, insert a higher quality D/A chip and get a better quality signal overall, maybe even carry one adapter instead of 3, or four that will break out ANY video signal you need: VGA, RGB, Composite, HDMI, DVI, etc ... Right now to get that kind of functionality, you have to carry around a bag full of dongles and adapters. And I find HDMI inputs are available almost everywhere there used to only be a VGA, and guess what HDMI outputs a far better picture. Hard to imagine since digital is so inferior to analogue.
And don't get me started on the docks that were obsoleted by Apples changing analogue video implementation.
The irony of your post is that the iDevices are inherently digital. Apple has merely moved the D/A converters into the docks, where they SHOULD anyway. With any luck, Apple will reduce the number of cheap imports offering counterfeit dock connectors that mainly take Apple's audio signal and run it through a cheap amp resulting in an inferior experience most people tend to blame on Apple rather than the dock they picked up in a bargain bin at Ross, or Marshall's.
It's insignificant to everyone because there's nothing you can do with the Lightning Connector that you couldn't already do with the Dock Connector, there's nothing you can implement on the Lightning Connector that you can not implement on the Dock Connector, but there are things the Dock Connector has that the Lightning Connector will never have.
I'm labeling it as inferior because it has dropped support for technology that is still widely used, trivial, portable, and for which there is no suitable replacement (even HDMI, that the Lightning Connector does not support is far from being a suitable replacement).
I'm not looking back, I'm thinking about all the stuff I can do with both my iPhone 4S and iPad 3G right now and won't be able to do with their next generations. I had great plans for dual-screen apps that could take advantage of both the analog and digital adapters, but with the move to the Lightning Connector, my plans have been shattered, because in order to have a dual screen now people will be required to buy and set up an Apple TV, which is no longer convenient as it's not "just a cable". I will also be inconvenienced every time I wish to record the output of one of my apps because there really is no way to record from AirPlay, and don't even get me started about the apparatus required to give a presentation, which will make it even less convenient from an iPhone than from a Mac, when it should be the other way around.
The Apple that I trusted for quality and innovation seems to have died with Jobs.
No, I'm concerned about AV as a whole, both analog and digital, and the adapter doesn't stream any form of it, it is simply unsupported on the iPhone 5. I'm not saying this can not change in the future, they can always stream AV through USB and convert it with an adapter, but right there's no support whatsoever.
Who cares? They were there to be convenient, not state of the art; for the latter you had HDMI on the iPhone 4S and iPad 3G, something you DON'T have on the iPhone 5. Also, like above, I'm not exactly sure what adapter you're talking about since the Lightning to Dock adapter does not stream AV.
I wasn't aware of this, but changing the pins is a lot better than outright removing the functionality.
They have composite / component video as well as analog audio, not to mention HDMI.
What exactly is your point there? The Lightning Connector does NOT support any of that, not even HDMI! Right now you have to carry an Apple TV and some wi-fi router just to replicate the functionality of an iPhone 4S on an iPhone 5!
I see absolutely no practical reasons for them to move the converters off the devices, really. That'll only make accessories more expensive as the same functionality that was in the device before now has to be replicated in everything you buy.
Originally Posted by Vaelian
It's insignificant to everyone because there's nothing you can do with the Lightning Connector that you couldn't already do with the Dock Connector…
Yet.
…there's nothing you can implement on the Lightning Connector that you can not implement on the Dock Connector…
Proof? Seen any Dock Connector to Thunderbolt cables lately? Or even Dock Connector to FireWire 800 that transfers at 800 speeds? Nope.
I'm labeling it as inferior because it has dropped support for technology that is still widely used, trivial, portable, and for which there is no suitable replacement
Perhaps it's that triviality that led Apple to drop it.
The Apple that I trusted for quality and innovation seems to have died with Jobs.
Thanks for keeping my own pessimism about New Apple in check by going all out and discrediting absolutely everything they're doing.
They were there to be convenient, not state of the art…
And now they're here to be state of the art. Kind of like USB when it was introduced. And all the kvetching in the world didn't stop that from happening.
I would like to see Tim give a new iPhone away to Balmer, he is not getting any richer. Plus if Tim could rig it to video the in-house fighting in the Balmer household showing the kiddies and wife clamering for the new iPhone and Balmer telling them no - pricelesss.
You are making absolutely baseless accusations. Of course Lightening supports all of this. It just hasn't been implemented YET. There are exactly ZERO docks available right now, aside from Apples. Apple has already said they are working on video adapters. So why do you care!? If this functionality is so important to you, buy and iPhone 4S which will still be around for two years. And these plans you had for apps, you realize Apple would have to approve those too, right? You're also aware that Apple would have to support all those options, like USB 3.0, on the 30-pin dock connector as well, right? I mean at the end of the day, no matter what connector we use, or what nifty things you'd Apps could do, we are all reliant on Apple to support them.
And, you want an Airplay enabled device you can easily set up and record from without having to buy an Apple TV -- here you go ... $59, better than any cable you could ever buy, and costs about the same.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/H9139VC/A/kanex-atv-pro-airplay-mirroring-for-vga-projector-cable?fnode=45
The docks that will be available for the iPhone 5 will most certainly handle HDMi, and anything else you can think of because digital is so versatile and won't require an easily damaged 30-pin connector to do it. Are you concerned about spending a few extra dollars to get a dock with better functionality because they have to add their own D/A chip? Economies of scale will bring these devices in line within a year, just like with the adoption of USB.
You said earlier that this is not like when Apple replaced the floppy because that was obsolete technology. Well it most certainly wasn't in 1998 when Apple did it. It was a standard way to move certain files around offices, and homes. So much so that there was a THRIVING market for very expensive aftermarket USB floppy drives, which were likewise hard to come by on launch day. Moreover, any ADB, Serial, or SCSI device a Mac user had was instantly rendered obsolete because there were few if any USB equivalents, and USB drivers were mostly nonexistent for adapters. Do you recall that when the iMac was launched, there was only ONE printer available for it? Well by 1999 that had all changed. And there was a thriving market for peripherals wi many more options than ever existed for the technology USB replaced because it was so much more versatile. Lightning is going to revolutionize the possibilities of the idevice accessory industry, not limit it. The idea that somehow docks with discrete pins for every function a user wants access too is superior to digital interfaces that allow dedicated devices to tap into only what they need is ridiculous. The PowerBook Duo was one of the greatest Macs for its time, and it too utilized a 250 pin interface that tapped right into the CPU, but you know what? All of that technology has ultimately been replaced by USB, FireWire and now Thunderbolt. I would laugh at someone who told me they needed to have a 250 discreet pin bus wired into every computer and device dock manufactured. It's not as efficient, it's not as practical, it takes up a huge amount of room on both the docks and computers, and indeed, for all but one desktop docking product, it is mostly wasteful!! The same goes for the 30-pin connector. And Apple has produced at launch a perfectly functional adapter for backward compatibility to any legacy docks, covering just about everything but Video at this time. If Apple fails to address that, then you can bet a third party company will jump in and fill the void. Meanwhile Apple will come up with its own Lightening A/V adapters, just like the did for the 30-pin docking connector.
If you still can't see the future potential in going all digital with lightening, then I'm done.
I only deal in facts.
Burden of proof is on you since you made the claim, and I've already replied to this very subject. Try to keep up! I'm getting tired of repeating myself because of your inability to read even your own posts!
So it's only good if it's unnecessarily complex? I'm really not following your point...
Just to make sure you understand it, you're actually validating many of my points with this reply.
Accusing me of baseless speculation when you, yourself are speculating without evidence is quite funny, especially when you are the one with burden of proof because you are the one making a claim about a feature that currently does not exist.
Citation?
You're not making any sense. Like I mentioned earlier in this thread, I own the best two iOS devices Apple has ever conceived (the iPhone 4S and the iPad 3G), so I won't need to buy new unless one of them breaks. Regarding apps, Apple's approval is not and will never be an issue; the issue is user experience. People are less likely to experience dual screens with an iPhone 5 than with an iPhone 4S due to the former requiring an Apple TV, thus making it less worth wasting time developing for dual screens.
I am going to assume that you have provided me with a wrong URL, because that cable connects to an Apple TV's HDMI port (or alternatively to an iPhone 4S / iPad 3G's HDMI adapter).
Currently, that functionality is not supported, so they shouldn't have switched.
In 1999, floppies were completely rendered obsolete by CD recorders and CD-RWs. While getting rid of them might have inconvenienced some people who were forced to upgrade their storage, no functionality was lost, as CDs were superior to floppies in every possible respect by a huge margin.
Your problem is that you are yet to understand that the Dock Connector is even more versatile than the Lightning Connector. Everything you can implement on a Lightning Connector you can implement just as well on a Dock Connector, but there are plenty of things in the Dock Connector that you can not implement on the Lightning Connector.
Originally Posted by Vaelian
I only deal in facts.
And I often look to the future. Perhaps that's where our visions for the standard differ.
Burden of proof is on you since you made the claim, and I've already replied to this very subject. Try to keep up! I'm getting tired of repeating myself because of your inability to read even your own posts!
I don't understand. At no point did you show that Dock Connector can handle FireWire 800, USB 3, or Thunderbolt. You made this claim.
So it's only good if it's unnecessarily complex? I'm really not following your point...
Not trivial ? unnecessarily complex. The world of standards is not black and white.
Just to make sure you understand it, you're actually validating many of my points with this reply.
Not unless your point has been "ignore all the old crap in favor of modern alternatives".
I find it stomach-churning that super-rich Mark Zuckerberg was sent a free iPhone.
Excuse me.... [ ] .... I'm back...
Apple's Cook would have not been repulsive if he had given it to a destitute hero or heroine... or someone very deserving yet not able to afford it.
But this....
Excuse me.... [ ]
deleted
I guess I can speculate that because FB's stock is down 66% from where most people bought it, Cook maybe thought he could ease poor Zuckerberg's pain with a free iPhone. (Did he get the 2-year Verizon plan paid-for too?) But maybe not.
My 'beef' is not that Apple is so wealthy that it can throw money where it wants to... my gripe is that it is a trivial gesture between two wealthy people so it's just irritating that it gets news coverage.
Now if Apple started a program to give free iPhones (with paid 2-year plans) to deserving and stellar needy... _that_ would be newsworthy.
times are hard if all you give a CEO is a phone made in china that you can buy for 200 dollars. I get nicer gifts from our Corporate Printer partners. Give the man a bundle or something.
Then what will you give him then? A bundle of what? 90% of computers are made in China.