How much better must the iPad get in order for them to justify dumping the Mac Mini? Does that even matter?
That's not even a question. Those who use the Mac Mini aren't those who use an iPad. The iPad has no power over the Mac Mini save to increase its sales.
How much better must the iPad get in order for them to justify dumping the Mac Mini? Does that even matter?
When I can process RAW and 1080p movies on the iPad in a reasonable amount of time. I'll accept even the need to dock it to a keyboard mouse and monitor.
That's not even a question. Those who use the Mac Mini aren't those who use an iPad. The iPad has no power over the Mac Mini save to increase its sales.
This is a very important point. The iPad and to a lesser extent the iPhone could potentially shift more Mac Sales to the desktop.
Make a decent mid range desktop Mac and I'll be all over an iPad for the rare mobile needs I might have. I'll never chunk down money for a laptop since I I don't have real need for mobility. But I need a good desktop and I want it to be from Apple.
Make a decent mid range desktop Mac and I'll be all over an iPad for the rare mobile needs I might have. I'll never chunk down money for a laptop since I I don't have real need for mobility. But I need a good desktop and I want it to be from Apple.
It isn't a crap idea at all. Apple has for years given us no choice as far as a midrange performance desktop goes. It isn't surprising that the thought doesn't die.
Make a decent mid range desktop Mac and I'll be all over an iPad for the rare mobile needs I might have. I'll never chunk down money for a laptop since I I don't have real need for mobility. But I need a good desktop and I want it to be from Apple.
My need for a laptop plummeted once I got an iPad. It is the best mobile solution going, far better than an iPhone and even my MBP for most of my mobile needs.
The big problem at this point is that Mini performance sucks when compared to Apples MBPs. I'm not sure why people don't recognize that little bit of reality. Holding out hope for something like Haswell to save the Mini is foolish as we will see better performance in a bigger box for the foreseeable future.
I like the size of the Mac mini now though if it gave me more juice, I could take something a bit larger. Having said that, I think I might be able to deal with a mid-range IB mini coming up.
I like the iMac but the AIO is still tough on me despite it offering far more.
Edit: What's wrong with having a celebrity endorse the Mac mini?
Someone who says it's everything you want in one little package and starts at just $599 and already works with the parts you have.
Count me in for a box that out-operforms an iMac yet isn't as big and heavy as a MacPro.
Hey, I'm all for the Mac Pro getting smaller and lighter, and I'm for the Mac Mini getting more powerful. But I don't want the former to stop being a workstation machine, and I don't want the latter to price itself out of the reach of partial (or simple-needs) switchers.
The iMac does fill everything in between. Thunderbolt helps that along greatly.
Hey, I'm all for the Mac Pro getting smaller and lighter, and I'm for the Mac Mini getting more powerful. But I don't want the former to stop being a workstation machine, and I don't want the latter to price itself out of the reach of partial (or simple-needs) switchers.
An XMac chassis could very well support users of modest needs. All it really needs is a base model and a performance model. Unfortunately that apparently isn't possible in today's Mini or at least Apple hasn't saw fit to offer it up. The whole problem with the Mini is the lack of a real spread in performance where going from the base model to the upper end doesn't really offer a lot.
The iMac does fill everything in between. Thunderbolt helps that along greatly.
Maybe if that is your cup of tea. The fact is there are far too many negatives associated with the iMac for many of us to consider.
The whole problem with the Mini is the lack of a real spread in performance where going from the base model to the upper end doesn't really offer a lot.
The main problem with the Mini is the crappy GPU and lack of VRAM. From the company that practically invented/normalized the GUI for Pete's sake!
Hey, I'm all for the Mac Pro getting smaller and lighter, and I'm for the Mac Mini getting more powerful. But I don't want the former to stop being a workstation machine, and I don't want the latter to price itself out of the reach of partial (or simple-needs) switchers.
The iMac does fill everything in between. Thunderbolt helps that along greatly.
The current iMac is fantastic. I have two, one to work on, the other to help out with rendering jobs. Don't want the display on the 2nd, though, and would love a slightly more compact body, something easy to put on a shelf. Again, I don't want the display glowing the whole time.
So, I guess I'm all for a headless iMac. If it was slightly more powerful and had a better graphics card, even better, but size matters.
The whole problem with the Mini is the lack of a real spread in performance where going from the base model to the upper end doesn't really offer a lot.
You don't think there's a real performance difference between a 2.3 Ghz dual core Core i5 w/Intel GPU and a 2.0 Ghz quad core i7 w/Intel GPU or a dual 2.7Ghz i7 w/HD6630M?
What the mini lacks at the top end is the GPU in the quad i7.
Swap one of the HDD bays for a SSD stick slot to hold the OS and a slightly faster quad i7 with GPU option at the top end and the mini is your mid-range headless mac. Even 2 stick slots and no HDD bay is fine if the space is really needed for cooling.
So, I guess I'm all for a headless iMac. If it was slightly more powerful and had a better graphics card, even better, but size matters.
Would you rather have two $1,399 2.7Ghz Quad i5 with 6770M GPU or three $899 2.7 Ghz Dual i7 with 6630M for your mini render farm? I guess the question is whether you can live with 256MB VRAM.
I really don't see Apple discounting the headless 21" iMac more than a hundred bucks or so given I can get a 23" eIPS monitor for $183 retail.
For $139 ($39 for the VESA mount) cost difference for the headless version I'd just remove the stand and mount them on the wall, route the cables to wherever they need to go and turn off the screens (control shift eject). Zero desktop footprint. Just need some drywall skills and some conduit for cabling if size and not price is the primary issue. In a pinch you can use some decorative HDTV cable conduit on the wall surface if you don't want to do a lot of drywall patching.
When guests are over turn the screens back on and put in a slide show and have the coolest home office among all your friends.
If you are an uber geek then get four and lay them out like this around your NEST thermostat:
The current iMac is fantastic. I have two, one to work on, the other to help out with rendering jobs. Don't want the display on the 2nd, though, and would love a slightly more compact body, something easy to put on a shelf. Again, I don't want the display glowing the whole time.
So, I guess I'm all for a headless iMac. If it was slightly more powerful and had a better graphics card, even better, but size matters.
The current iMac (the top end one) is fantastic. i7. Solid GPU with 2 Gig vram. BUT, it's out of date. Long time passing.
In no way can you call it a joke. ...and with a beautiful 27 inch monitor. The entry pro? Yes. A joke. A pish take on price and specs and value. The mini's pricing? A joke (irony, no kb or mouse or monitor for that price...). Sure. But the iMac has been the reigning champ of AiOs for years. I couldn't say it was poorly engineered. But if you want to access it for HD failure. Sure. That's a valid complaint. If you want to upgrade the GPU? It's a valid complaint. If you want a mid range machine without a monitor glued on...I guess you can complain about that.
But that's what Apple offers. 2 years is a long time in the computer industry. Can the iMac design be moved on? I think so. Mine does get hot. But what AiO won't when you push it on a hot summers day in an Attic...? Playing games or rendering? Apple's iMac used to be an entry machine. Now it's prosumer mid range power. (in the context of Apple land.) It's not a tinker box. But those people are in the minority. And I don't expect Apple to offer any tinker boxes short of 2k. Nothing they've done in the last ten years suggests they will.
Expect things to get locked down, glued...and thinner. Those new iMacs will look good in the stores.
You could argue that the desktop line is a joke. It hasn't been updated in years if it's a Mac Pro. *(Bloody shame, that...) and the iMac is getting on for two years. The mini has been ages with out an update. When we had PPC, we knew why the updates were slow. But now Apple has plenty of choice for cpus and gpus.
Desktop sales will slow if you don't update them. :P
iMac is Apple's mid range machine. It is capable. ...in the context of what APPLE OFFERS. However...there's a caveat to that.
...if you're looking for the PC side for a comparison of affordable power it will drive you insane. Apple's desktops are comparatively poor value for money. Head on over to any average PC builder and you can put together a machine that will smash the pro, iMac or Mini for less money. It's not even a contest. AND HOW COULD IT BE WHEN Apple's desktops haven't been updates in years? (May as well round it up. We're there for the pro, and about there for the iMac and mini.) Now, the apparent neglect or contempt for the desktop is a 'joke'. Though the actually machines may not be. If the Pro, iMac and Mini were updated they wouldn't be considered jokes. But their specs might considered an out of date 'joke' or their prices a 'JOKE!' for such outdated tech. (and it is.)
But the i7 should be standard in machines over a grand by now. It can certainly kick around an entry mac pro which looks poor, poor value by comparison.
It's a prosumer to pro machine. The days of iMacs struggling to do photoshop, video or other demanding 3D rendering tasks are over. Games too.
Hopefully the top end iMac's power will be democratised into the rest of the line up to a degree with the new iVy Bridge update.
As for the Mini. A nice little machine when it was priced below £500. But add a crap dedicated gpu option and it's ridiculously pricey with no keyboard, mouse or monitor.
Even if we got the Pro, imac and mini of our dreams...could Apple get sales of even 2 million for the lot worth the R&D?
I'm sure we'll get updates to them all in time. But don't expect Pro sales to rebound past 100k. (Not at the insane prices apple charges...) Don't expect the iMac to bound much beyond 1 million. Don't expect the mini to get more than 200k-ish. (It's poor value.)
Haswell may well help the mini's power. 'Knight' may help the Pro be baptised... A retina iMac with Haswell may offer a cool running and sharp looking pro/prosumer rig.
But I don't see the tide of any improvements making a dint on the tide of laptop sales for APple given that they pioneered the move away from Laptops. It's been done by design and you can see Apple's effort right there in the Air and the Macbook Pro...and the iPads...and iPhones...and iPods...(Given more love than desktop macs...)
I'm a desktop guy. But what a desktop 'is' or 'isn't' has changed. Overall mac sales have dipped. We're in a double dip world recession despite what the minority owned western press are or aren't telling us. Apple only grew it's pie relative to a shrinking market. ie Apple's sales fell a bit too?
Laptop sales of 4:1. Ipads putting the boot into desktop and laptop pc sales. I even had one friend who wants to sell her Air for an iPad.
That's the way the wind is blowing.
I guess I wouldn't care what the box looks like. I'm not bothered about getting inside a machine as long as it's capable. A decent gpu and cpu relative to the market...and I'm happy. Whether that is pro, iMac or Mini. But I'm not being but rubbed for Apple's insane pricing either.
I think I'd prefer to buy used all things considered. eg an iMac bundled with photoshop and save several hundred. Some deals get you Apple care all the same. vs Being rhubarbed for a new Apple desktop with any notable power.
Would you rather have two $1,399 2.7Ghz Quad i5 with 6770M GPU or three $899 2.7 Ghz Dual i7 with 6630M for your mini render farm? I guess the question is whether you can live with 256MB VRAM.
I really don't see Apple discounting the headless 21" iMac more than a hundred bucks or so given I can get a 23" eIPS monitor for $183 retail.
For $139 ($39 for the VESA mount) cost difference for the headless version I'd just remove the stand and mount them on the wall, route the cables to wherever they need to go and turn off the screens (control shift eject). Zero desktop footprint. Just need some drywall skills and some conduit for cabling if size and not price is the primary issue. In a pinch you can use some decorative HDTV cable conduit on the wall surface if you don't want to do a lot of drywall patching.
When guests are over turn the screens back on and put in a slide show and have the coolest home office among all your friends.
When I try turning off the screens they pop back on when I remote access... ?? I use either Remote Desktop or Share Screen.
When I try turning off the screens they pop back on when I remote access... ?? I use either Remote Desktop or Share Screen.
All the key combo does is invoke the energy saver screen power-off. The iMac isn't sleeping but anything that normally makes the screen active again will turn the screen on. I don't Remote Desktop or Share Screen so I dunno what might trigger the screen.
You can try SwitchResX. That might work on the iMac but typically it's for turning off the internal screen of the MBP.
Comments
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
How much better must the iPad get in order for them to justify dumping the Mac Mini? Does that even matter?
That's not even a question. Those who use the Mac Mini aren't those who use an iPad. The iPad has no power over the Mac Mini save to increase its sales.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
How much better must the iPad get in order for them to justify dumping the Mac Mini? Does that even matter?
When I can process RAW and 1080p movies on the iPad in a reasonable amount of time. I'll accept even the need to dock it to a keyboard mouse and monitor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
This is a very important point. The iPad and to a lesser extent the iPhone could potentially shift more Mac Sales to the desktop.
Make a decent mid range desktop Mac and I'll be all over an iPad for the rare mobile needs I might have. I'll never chunk down money for a laptop since I I don't have real need for mobility. But I need a good desktop and I want it to be from Apple.
Originally Posted by MacTac
Make a decent mid range desktop Mac and I'll be all over an iPad for the rare mobile needs I might have. I'll never chunk down money for a laptop since I I don't have real need for mobility. But I need a good desktop and I want it to be from Apple.
And here we go with the xMac crap again.
My need for a laptop plummeted once I got an iPad. It is the best mobile solution going, far better than an iPhone and even my MBP for most of my mobile needs.
The big problem at this point is that Mini performance sucks when compared to Apples MBPs. I'm not sure why people don't recognize that little bit of reality. Holding out hope for something like Haswell to save the Mini is foolish as we will see better performance in a bigger box for the foreseeable future.
I like the iMac but the AIO is still tough on me despite it offering far more.
Edit: What's wrong with having a celebrity endorse the Mac mini?
Someone who says it's everything you want in one little package and starts at just $599 and already works with the parts you have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And here we go with the xMac crap again.
Nothing wrong with dreaming and drooling a little bit, whether or not it will come to be.
post #113
Count me in for a box that out-operforms an iMac yet isn't as big and heavy as a MacPro.
post #261
No harm done in dreaming a little.
I'd love it if this concept came to the mini; I have often watched the accessories made for stacking above the mini. It's fun to toss the idea around.
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
Count me in for a box that out-operforms an iMac yet isn't as big and heavy as a MacPro.
Hey, I'm all for the Mac Pro getting smaller and lighter, and I'm for the Mac Mini getting more powerful. But I don't want the former to stop being a workstation machine, and I don't want the latter to price itself out of the reach of partial (or simple-needs) switchers.
The iMac does fill everything in between. Thunderbolt helps that along greatly.
Maybe if that is your cup of tea. The fact is there are far too many negatives associated with the iMac for many of us to consider.
The main problem with the Mini is the crappy GPU and lack of VRAM. From the company that practically invented/normalized the GUI for Pete's sake!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Hey, I'm all for the Mac Pro getting smaller and lighter, and I'm for the Mac Mini getting more powerful. But I don't want the former to stop being a workstation machine, and I don't want the latter to price itself out of the reach of partial (or simple-needs) switchers.
The iMac does fill everything in between. Thunderbolt helps that along greatly.
The current iMac is fantastic. I have two, one to work on, the other to help out with rendering jobs. Don't want the display on the 2nd, though, and would love a slightly more compact body, something easy to put on a shelf. Again, I don't want the display glowing the whole time.
So, I guess I'm all for a headless iMac. If it was slightly more powerful and had a better graphics card, even better, but size matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
The whole problem with the Mini is the lack of a real spread in performance where going from the base model to the upper end doesn't really offer a lot.
You don't think there's a real performance difference between a 2.3 Ghz dual core Core i5 w/Intel GPU and a 2.0 Ghz quad core i7 w/Intel GPU or a dual 2.7Ghz i7 w/HD6630M?
What the mini lacks at the top end is the GPU in the quad i7.
Swap one of the HDD bays for a SSD stick slot to hold the OS and a slightly faster quad i7 with GPU option at the top end and the mini is your mid-range headless mac. Even 2 stick slots and no HDD bay is fine if the space is really needed for cooling.
Today the $899 dual 2.7 i7 with 6630M isn't bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
So, I guess I'm all for a headless iMac. If it was slightly more powerful and had a better graphics card, even better, but size matters.
Would you rather have two $1,399 2.7Ghz Quad i5 with 6770M GPU or three $899 2.7 Ghz Dual i7 with 6630M for your mini render farm? I guess the question is whether you can live with 256MB VRAM.
I really don't see Apple discounting the headless 21" iMac more than a hundred bucks or so given I can get a 23" eIPS monitor for $183 retail.
For $139 ($39 for the VESA mount) cost difference for the headless version I'd just remove the stand and mount them on the wall, route the cables to wherever they need to go and turn off the screens (control shift eject). Zero desktop footprint. Just need some drywall skills and some conduit for cabling if size and not price is the primary issue. In a pinch you can use some decorative HDTV cable conduit on the wall surface if you don't want to do a lot of drywall patching.
When guests are over turn the screens back on and put in a slide show and have the coolest home office among all your friends.
If you are an uber geek then get four and lay them out like this around your NEST thermostat:
Installing the VESA Mount:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
The current iMac is fantastic. I have two, one to work on, the other to help out with rendering jobs. Don't want the display on the 2nd, though, and would love a slightly more compact body, something easy to put on a shelf. Again, I don't want the display glowing the whole time.
So, I guess I'm all for a headless iMac. If it was slightly more powerful and had a better graphics card, even better, but size matters.
The current iMac (the top end one) is fantastic. i7. Solid GPU with 2 Gig vram. BUT, it's out of date. Long time passing.
In no way can you call it a joke. ...and with a beautiful 27 inch monitor. The entry pro? Yes. A joke. A pish take on price and specs and value. The mini's pricing? A joke (irony, no kb or mouse or monitor for that price...). Sure. But the iMac has been the reigning champ of AiOs for years. I couldn't say it was poorly engineered. But if you want to access it for HD failure. Sure. That's a valid complaint. If you want to upgrade the GPU? It's a valid complaint. If you want a mid range machine without a monitor glued on...I guess you can complain about that.
But that's what Apple offers. 2 years is a long time in the computer industry. Can the iMac design be moved on? I think so. Mine does get hot. But what AiO won't when you push it on a hot summers day in an Attic...? Playing games or rendering? Apple's iMac used to be an entry machine. Now it's prosumer mid range power. (in the context of Apple land.) It's not a tinker box. But those people are in the minority. And I don't expect Apple to offer any tinker boxes short of 2k. Nothing they've done in the last ten years suggests they will.
Expect things to get locked down, glued...and thinner. Those new iMacs will look good in the stores.
You could argue that the desktop line is a joke. It hasn't been updated in years if it's a Mac Pro. *(Bloody shame, that...) and the iMac is getting on for two years. The mini has been ages with out an update. When we had PPC, we knew why the updates were slow. But now Apple has plenty of choice for cpus and gpus.
Desktop sales will slow if you don't update them. :P
iMac is Apple's mid range machine. It is capable. ...in the context of what APPLE OFFERS. However...there's a caveat to that.
...if you're looking for the PC side for a comparison of affordable power it will drive you insane. Apple's desktops are comparatively poor value for money. Head on over to any average PC builder and you can put together a machine that will smash the pro, iMac or Mini for less money. It's not even a contest. AND HOW COULD IT BE WHEN Apple's desktops haven't been updates in years? (May as well round it up. We're there for the pro, and about there for the iMac and mini.) Now, the apparent neglect or contempt for the desktop is a 'joke'. Though the actually machines may not be. If the Pro, iMac and Mini were updated they wouldn't be considered jokes. But their specs might considered an out of date 'joke' or their prices a 'JOKE!' for such outdated tech. (and it is.)
But the i7 should be standard in machines over a grand by now. It can certainly kick around an entry mac pro which looks poor, poor value by comparison.
It's a prosumer to pro machine. The days of iMacs struggling to do photoshop, video or other demanding 3D rendering tasks are over. Games too.
Hopefully the top end iMac's power will be democratised into the rest of the line up to a degree with the new iVy Bridge update.
As for the Mini. A nice little machine when it was priced below £500. But add a crap dedicated gpu option and it's ridiculously pricey with no keyboard, mouse or monitor.
Even if we got the Pro, imac and mini of our dreams...could Apple get sales of even 2 million for the lot worth the R&D?
I'm sure we'll get updates to them all in time. But don't expect Pro sales to rebound past 100k. (Not at the insane prices apple charges...) Don't expect the iMac to bound much beyond 1 million. Don't expect the mini to get more than 200k-ish. (It's poor value.)
Haswell may well help the mini's power. 'Knight' may help the Pro be baptised... A retina iMac with Haswell may offer a cool running and sharp looking pro/prosumer rig.
But I don't see the tide of any improvements making a dint on the tide of laptop sales for APple given that they pioneered the move away from Laptops. It's been done by design and you can see Apple's effort right there in the Air and the Macbook Pro...and the iPads...and iPhones...and iPods...(Given more love than desktop macs...)
I'm a desktop guy. But what a desktop 'is' or 'isn't' has changed. Overall mac sales have dipped. We're in a double dip world recession despite what the minority owned western press are or aren't telling us. Apple only grew it's pie relative to a shrinking market. ie Apple's sales fell a bit too?
Laptop sales of 4:1. Ipads putting the boot into desktop and laptop pc sales. I even had one friend who wants to sell her Air for an iPad.
That's the way the wind is blowing.
I guess I wouldn't care what the box looks like. I'm not bothered about getting inside a machine as long as it's capable. A decent gpu and cpu relative to the market...and I'm happy. Whether that is pro, iMac or Mini. But I'm not being but rubbed for Apple's insane pricing either.
I think I'd prefer to buy used all things considered. eg an iMac bundled with photoshop and save several hundred. Some deals get you Apple care all the same. vs Being rhubarbed for a new Apple desktop with any notable power.
Lemon Bon Bon.
nht: That is an idea I had not thought of!
- - - - -
Waiting for the invites to go out...
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
Waiting for the invites to go out...
I think that'd be tomorrow at the earliest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Would you rather have two $1,399 2.7Ghz Quad i5 with 6770M GPU or three $899 2.7 Ghz Dual i7 with 6630M for your mini render farm? I guess the question is whether you can live with 256MB VRAM.
I really don't see Apple discounting the headless 21" iMac more than a hundred bucks or so given I can get a 23" eIPS monitor for $183 retail.
For $139 ($39 for the VESA mount) cost difference for the headless version I'd just remove the stand and mount them on the wall, route the cables to wherever they need to go and turn off the screens (control shift eject). Zero desktop footprint. Just need some drywall skills and some conduit for cabling if size and not price is the primary issue. In a pinch you can use some decorative HDTV cable conduit on the wall surface if you don't want to do a lot of drywall patching.
When guests are over turn the screens back on and put in a slide show and have the coolest home office among all your friends.
When I try turning off the screens they pop back on when I remote access... ?? I use either Remote Desktop or Share Screen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
When I try turning off the screens they pop back on when I remote access... ?? I use either Remote Desktop or Share Screen.
All the key combo does is invoke the energy saver screen power-off. The iMac isn't sleeping but anything that normally makes the screen active again will turn the screen on. I don't Remote Desktop or Share Screen so I dunno what might trigger the screen.
You can try SwitchResX. That might work on the iMac but typically it's for turning off the internal screen of the MBP.
http://www.madrau.com/indexSRX4.html