That's not even a question. Those who use the Mac Mini aren't those who use an iPad. The iPad has no power over the Mac Mini save to increase its sales.
The reason I think it matters is about numbers. There will come a point when the number of sales doesn't justify the continued production of an item. When Mini sales are so low that the effort put into them isn't as profitable as an iDevice, then it would make more sense to shift Mini resources to iDevice production. Hypothetically if only ten Mac Mini's were sold per year you can bet Apple would dump that product and build something else.
Somewhere in the Apple accounting world is a cutoff point where a product just isn't doing well enough to justify its existence. An executive decision could maintain that product if it had public relations value. Ford recreated the Ford GT and sold a few at a loss. It was a good PR move. I wish I could have bought one. Maybe Apple treats its Mac Pro like that. I don't know.
The Mini isn't the PR baby it once was because it costs a lot for what is delivered. Sure it looks better than other computers in its power range but it still costs more. It isn't a good value. The iPad is the new Apple PR weapon. The iPhone is the bread and butter of the company now with the iPad doing a great job too. EVERYBODY knows what an iPad is. How many people by comparison know what a Mac Pro or Mac Mini are?
If an iPad becomes nearly as powerful as a Mac Mini then why keep the Mini around at all? IPads have proven that most people only need what the iPad offers. All of us non-professional computer users probably could keep our five year old computers for doing word processing and spreadsheets. How high tech must a machine be to accomplish those tasks? I could do everything I regularly do on my 2003 Gateway (if it still worked). I do make and edit videos now on my 2008 and 2009 computers. I don't need more power. IPads could probably work for my needs. It would just take a little more time.
About a year ago I believed Apple would switch to all hand held touch screen devices by the end of 2014. I still think this might be the case.
I'll say TS. All touch screen would undoubtedbly and completely suck.
Oh, I didn't say that. "All touchscreen handheld devices" is what I'm against. And particularly with that timeframe, but personally overall. It's just wrong to do.
We need big guns. We'll always need big guns.
Doing what he's proposing would have an impact on Apple akin to what would happen to the structural integrity of 1 World Trade Center if its bottom 100 feet spontaneously disappeared.
Let me be clearer. By 2014 the tablets will be powerful enough to equal Mac Books and iMacs. There will be no loss of power. The improved iPads or tablets running OS X variants will be able to connect to remote keyboards and sit on stands for those who need to type. What we'll be getting is a larger touch screen with the power of a desktop. It will be like an all-in-one iMac with touch capabilities. The users can choose whether or not to use a remote keyboard and mouse.
This fits with Apple's obsession with making things thinner and lighter. Take an iMac all-in-one and remove the stand. Make it thinner with a few ports on the side. Then make the screen a touch screen retina display. Of course a 21 inch screen would be too much to carry around but it would sit in a stand very easily or hang on a wall. It could lay flat on a table too.
Apple has almost gotten rid of built in optical discs and they're moving toward soldiered in flash storage for everything. Moving to all touch screen devices that can be hand held makes sense, even if they aren't all called iPads. The Airplay feature enables devices to send their video to larger screen TVs. If Apple does build a TV you can bet it would be capable of accepting feeds from other Apple devices.
Let me be clearer. By 2014 the tablets will be powerful enough to equal Mac Books and iMacs. There will be no loss of power.
Not unless the laws of physics change to make Haswell impossible and all current Intel chips break.
What do you think about this now?
Sounds like you moved from your original premise of "handheld touchscreen devices". I believe wholeheartedly the laptop will be dead very soon, replaced by tablets, but desktops will then fill the gap, not also go away.
Ever since I bought a Mac mini, I am no longer interested in laptops. While the rMBP is awesome, I far prefer my separation of monitors and computers themselves.
Make or break on this one will be video memory on the discrete model. Otherwise I am fine with the Sandy Bridge model and Samsung 470. I might get a cheap gaming PC but I'm not sure.
Let me be clearer. By 2014 the tablets will be powerful enough to equal Mac Books and iMacs. There will be no loss of power. The improved iPads or tablets running OS X variants will be able to connect to remote keyboards and sit on stands for those who need to type. What we'll be getting is a larger touch screen with the power of a desktop. It will be like an all-in-one iMac with touch capabilities. The users can choose whether or not to use a remote keyboard and mouse.
This fits with Apple's obsession with making things thinner and lighter. Take an iMac all-in-one and remove the stand. Make it thinner with a few ports on the side. Then make the screen a touch screen retina display. Of course a 21 inch screen would be too much to carry around but it would sit in a stand very easily or hang on a wall. It could lay flat on a table too.
Apple has almost gotten rid of built in optical discs and they're moving toward soldiered in flash storage for everything. Moving to all touch screen devices that can be hand held makes sense, even if they aren't all called iPads. The Airplay feature enables devices to send their video to larger screen TVs. If Apple does build a TV you can bet it would be capable of accepting feeds from other Apple devices.
What do you think about this now?
The future of computing is not a one-size-fits-all touch focused world. Instead, the future is a wide array of devices and interactions. Of course, some will be more popular than others.
It is simply ludicrous to suggest that a battery powered, handheld device is a suitable replacement for consumer desktops. Some people need as much memory and processing power as possible given a particular budget. Some people need ports and input devices that don't make sense on a portable, handheld device.
For example, an iPad does not work well as home theater computer, DVR or home server. There are many other examples but this one is applicable to me. While I use airplay every day, the iPad/ATV combo isn't optimal or even possible for many tasks.
Put simply, there will always be a market for non-battery powered and non-handheld devices.
Yes, obviously everyone's needs exactly match yours. I guess you fit the big brother role in the 1984 commercial. Everyone is the same and everyone gets the same computer.
Let me be clearer. By 2014 the tablets will be powerful enough to equal Mac Books and iMacs.
For some tasks they already are equal or better than Macs. It all depends upon how you measure power, but I reach for my iPad now more than my Mac.
There will be no loss of power. The improved iPads or tablets running OS X variants
This is garbage!! I'm not sire why this hasn't been grasped all these years on but iOS is a variant of Mac OS. It runs on the same basic kernel, uses the same basic libraries and in some cases exactly the same libraries. It varies only in the UI toolkit and the ability to run multiple apps at the same time.
Really this idea that iOS is some how vastly different than Mac OS has to die.
will be able to connect to remote keyboards and sit on stands for those who need to type.
You can do that today.
What we'll be getting is a larger touch screen with the power of a desktop. It will be like an all-in-one iMac with touch capabilities. The users can choose whether or not to use a remote keyboard and mouse.
Don't forget Intel isn't standing still. The spread between ARM processors and Intel processors will still be there. In fact ARM is such a significant threat to Intel that I would imagine there is a renewed interest at intel with respect to performance.
This fits with Apple's obsession with making things thinner and lighter. Take an iMac all-in-one and remove the stand. Make it thinner with a few ports on the side. Then make the screen a touch screen retina display. Of course a 21 inch screen would be too much to carry around but it would sit in a stand very easily or hang on a wall. It could lay flat on a table too.
Yep it is possible to do this, one can't argue the physical reality. The problem is humans, you can substitute a Touch only screen for human interaction on the desktop because it sucks from the human factors standpoint.
Apple has almost gotten rid of built in optical discs and they're moving toward soldiered in flash storage for everything. Moving to all touch screen devices that can be hand held makes sense, even if they aren't all called iPads.
Nope! Different use cases require different devices. It really is that simple. The only rational move for desktop devices, interface wise, is voice input. Touch on the desktop would only be useful in limited cases.
The Airplay feature enables devices to send their video to larger screen TVs. If Apple does build a TV you can bet it would be capable of accepting feeds from other Apple devices.
What do you think about this now?
I think you are a dreamer. By the way that isn't a bad thing at all. However in this case I think you have too many things wrong to have what you project become reality in the future. There isn't a wide spread demand for touch on the desktop because it isn't compatible with the way humans work at the desktop. Even using an iPad on the desktop, with a keyboard, right now is less than satisfactory.
What would you guys prefer at the conference? A silent update or a good sized portion of the conference to announce the specs? Do people care as much about it as the iPad mini, iMac, and 13" retina?
I would like them to though I think it's going to take a major overhaul that Apple doesn't feel is necessary for the MM.
I just mean I'm against killing off computers for only iPod, iPhone, and iPad. That's crazy talk. I believe desktops will go multitouch.
I think Apple's version for multitouch on the desktop is the Magic trackpad. I have a 2011 mini and an iPad 1 and sometimes I find myself trying to do gestures from the trackpad on my iPad (to no avail).
I think Apple's version for multitouch on the desktop is the Magic trackpad. I have a 2011 mini and an iPad 1 and sometimes I find myself trying to do gestures from the trackpad on my iPad (to no avail).
We'll have direct touch before long, don't you worry. The Magic Trackpad and iOS-esque UI are merely transitions to the true multitouch desktop solution they have planned.
While I agree that they will move to Multi-touch in the future, I don't think it will be with OS X. Using Multi-touch is a completely different UI than what is used in OS X. I think that the full support and capability will be included in OS XI. They may include a "Preview" version in later versions of OS X, but the main support will be in OS XI.
edit:
What I mean by a completely different UI is that OS X is designed around Mouse and Keyboard. While there is some support with the Magic Track-pad, that seems like it would be more teasing, and R&D on what gestures would work best in a full Multi-touch computer. I think that they would still support keyboard and mouse/Magic Track-pad unless they removed the Mac Mini/Mac Pro or disabled support for using third party monitors somehow.
I agree with this but I think Apple is going for the "a-la-carte" method where you can get AIO, boxes with semi-custom monitors (TVs - Apple TV, mini and airplay, traditional monitors, "headless" vnc with choice of device) and mobile (laptops, phones and iPads). Many of the gestures overlap and I think this makes the ecosystem unified "enough" to maintain desktop computing.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I think that'd be tomorrow at the earliest.
It is out.
October 23rd, "We've got a little more to show you."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's not even a question. Those who use the Mac Mini aren't those who use an iPad. The iPad has no power over the Mac Mini save to increase its sales.
The reason I think it matters is about numbers. There will come a point when the number of sales doesn't justify the continued production of an item. When Mini sales are so low that the effort put into them isn't as profitable as an iDevice, then it would make more sense to shift Mini resources to iDevice production. Hypothetically if only ten Mac Mini's were sold per year you can bet Apple would dump that product and build something else.
Somewhere in the Apple accounting world is a cutoff point where a product just isn't doing well enough to justify its existence. An executive decision could maintain that product if it had public relations value. Ford recreated the Ford GT and sold a few at a loss. It was a good PR move. I wish I could have bought one. Maybe Apple treats its Mac Pro like that. I don't know.
The Mini isn't the PR baby it once was because it costs a lot for what is delivered. Sure it looks better than other computers in its power range but it still costs more. It isn't a good value. The iPad is the new Apple PR weapon. The iPhone is the bread and butter of the company now with the iPad doing a great job too. EVERYBODY knows what an iPad is. How many people by comparison know what a Mac Pro or Mac Mini are?
If an iPad becomes nearly as powerful as a Mac Mini then why keep the Mini around at all? IPads have proven that most people only need what the iPad offers. All of us non-professional computer users probably could keep our five year old computers for doing word processing and spreadsheets. How high tech must a machine be to accomplish those tasks? I could do everything I regularly do on my 2003 Gateway (if it still worked). I do make and edit videos now on my 2008 and 2009 computers. I don't need more power. IPads could probably work for my needs. It would just take a little more time.
About a year ago I believed Apple would switch to all hand held touch screen devices by the end of 2014. I still think this might be the case.
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
About a year ago I believed Apple would switch to all hand held touch screen devices by the end of 2014. I still think this might be the case.
That's nonsense. Easiest possible way to completely bankrupt the company again.
Originally Posted by Winter
I'll say TS. All touch screen would undoubtedbly and completely suck.
Oh, I didn't say that. "All touchscreen handheld devices" is what I'm against. And particularly with that timeframe, but personally overall. It's just wrong to do.
We need big guns. We'll always need big guns.
Doing what he's proposing would have an impact on Apple akin to what would happen to the structural integrity of 1 World Trade Center if its bottom 100 feet spontaneously disappeared.
Originally Posted by Winter
If I read you correctly, I was agreeing with you the first time though may have worded it wrong.
I just mean I'm against killing off computers for only iPod, iPhone, and iPad. That's crazy talk. I believe desktops will go multitouch.
Let me be clearer. By 2014 the tablets will be powerful enough to equal Mac Books and iMacs. There will be no loss of power. The improved iPads or tablets running OS X variants will be able to connect to remote keyboards and sit on stands for those who need to type. What we'll be getting is a larger touch screen with the power of a desktop. It will be like an all-in-one iMac with touch capabilities. The users can choose whether or not to use a remote keyboard and mouse.
This fits with Apple's obsession with making things thinner and lighter. Take an iMac all-in-one and remove the stand. Make it thinner with a few ports on the side. Then make the screen a touch screen retina display. Of course a 21 inch screen would be too much to carry around but it would sit in a stand very easily or hang on a wall. It could lay flat on a table too.
Apple has almost gotten rid of built in optical discs and they're moving toward soldiered in flash storage for everything. Moving to all touch screen devices that can be hand held makes sense, even if they aren't all called iPads. The Airplay feature enables devices to send their video to larger screen TVs. If Apple does build a TV you can bet it would be capable of accepting feeds from other Apple devices.
What do you think about this now?
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
Let me be clearer. By 2014 the tablets will be powerful enough to equal Mac Books and iMacs. There will be no loss of power.
Not unless the laws of physics change to make Haswell impossible and all current Intel chips break.
What do you think about this now?
Sounds like you moved from your original premise of "handheld touchscreen devices". I believe wholeheartedly the laptop will be dead very soon, replaced by tablets, but desktops will then fill the gap, not also go away.
Make or break on this one will be video memory on the discrete model. Otherwise I am fine with the Sandy Bridge model and Samsung 470. I might get a cheap gaming PC but I'm not sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels
Let me be clearer. By 2014 the tablets will be powerful enough to equal Mac Books and iMacs. There will be no loss of power. The improved iPads or tablets running OS X variants will be able to connect to remote keyboards and sit on stands for those who need to type. What we'll be getting is a larger touch screen with the power of a desktop. It will be like an all-in-one iMac with touch capabilities. The users can choose whether or not to use a remote keyboard and mouse.
This fits with Apple's obsession with making things thinner and lighter. Take an iMac all-in-one and remove the stand. Make it thinner with a few ports on the side. Then make the screen a touch screen retina display. Of course a 21 inch screen would be too much to carry around but it would sit in a stand very easily or hang on a wall. It could lay flat on a table too.
Apple has almost gotten rid of built in optical discs and they're moving toward soldiered in flash storage for everything. Moving to all touch screen devices that can be hand held makes sense, even if they aren't all called iPads. The Airplay feature enables devices to send their video to larger screen TVs. If Apple does build a TV you can bet it would be capable of accepting feeds from other Apple devices.
What do you think about this now?
The future of computing is not a one-size-fits-all touch focused world. Instead, the future is a wide array of devices and interactions. Of course, some will be more popular than others.
It is simply ludicrous to suggest that a battery powered, handheld device is a suitable replacement for consumer desktops. Some people need as much memory and processing power as possible given a particular budget. Some people need ports and input devices that don't make sense on a portable, handheld device.
For example, an iPad does not work well as home theater computer, DVR or home server. There are many other examples but this one is applicable to me. While I use airplay every day, the iPad/ATV combo isn't optimal or even possible for many tasks.
Put simply, there will always be a market for non-battery powered and non-handheld devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And here we go with the xMac crap again.
Yes, obviously everyone's needs exactly match yours. I guess you fit the big brother role in the 1984 commercial. Everyone is the same and everyone gets the same computer.
Really this idea that iOS is some how vastly different than Mac OS has to die. You can do that today. Don't forget Intel isn't standing still. The spread between ARM processors and Intel processors will still be there. In fact ARM is such a significant threat to Intel that I would imagine there is a renewed interest at intel with respect to performance. Yep it is possible to do this, one can't argue the physical reality. The problem is humans, you can substitute a Touch only screen for human interaction on the desktop because it sucks from the human factors standpoint. Nope! Different use cases require different devices. It really is that simple. The only rational move for desktop devices, interface wise, is voice input. Touch on the desktop would only be useful in limited cases.
I think you are a dreamer. By the way that isn't a bad thing at all. However in this case I think you have too many things wrong to have what you project become reality in the future. There isn't a wide spread demand for touch on the desktop because it isn't compatible with the way humans work at the desktop. Even using an iPad on the desktop, with a keyboard, right now is less than satisfactory.
I would like them to though I think it's going to take a major overhaul that Apple doesn't feel is necessary for the MM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I just mean I'm against killing off computers for only iPod, iPhone, and iPad. That's crazy talk. I believe desktops will go multitouch.
I think Apple's version for multitouch on the desktop is the Magic trackpad. I have a 2011 mini and an iPad 1 and sometimes I find myself trying to do gestures from the trackpad on my iPad (to no avail).
Originally Posted by freckledbruh
I think Apple's version for multitouch on the desktop is the Magic trackpad. I have a 2011 mini and an iPad 1 and sometimes I find myself trying to do gestures from the trackpad on my iPad (to no avail).
We'll have direct touch before long, don't you worry. The Magic Trackpad and iOS-esque UI are merely transitions to the true multitouch desktop solution they have planned.
edit:
What I mean by a completely different UI is that OS X is designed around Mouse and Keyboard. While there is some support with the Magic Track-pad, that seems like it would be more teasing, and R&D on what gestures would work best in a full Multi-touch computer. I think that they would still support keyboard and mouse/Magic Track-pad unless they removed the Mac Mini/Mac Pro or disabled support for using third party monitors somehow.
Originally Posted by Kendog52404
They may include a "Preview" version in later versions of OS X…
That's what they're doing now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's what they're doing now.
I agree with this but I think Apple is going for the "a-la-carte" method where you can get AIO, boxes with semi-custom monitors (TVs - Apple TV, mini and airplay, traditional monitors, "headless" vnc with choice of device) and mobile (laptops, phones and iPads). Many of the gestures overlap and I think this makes the ecosystem unified "enough" to maintain desktop computing.