Windows 7 isnt half bad but after playing wth the beta version of 8 I wont be in any hurry to upgrade. Its the most bizzare unintuitive interface ever.
I have a feeling that Windows 7 is going to remain available for a very, very long time.
I have a feeling that Windows 7 is going to remain available for a very, very long time.
Window 7 = the new XP
Have you moved to Win8 at your work? We are still mostly WinXP. Less than a dozen people have Win7 right now and we only moved from WinS2k3 to WinS2k8 last month.
Ive been playing around with WinS12. There are lots of aspects I like about it but like Win8 there are more that seem like a huge step backwards. I don't see any part of MS's vision being overall better except for WinPh8 over WinPh7 and those sales are stagnant.
Why does MS report sales in dollars in stead of units, as they did with prior versions of Windows?
Is this an attempt to obfuscate... if so, what?
MS is desperate to overcome Apple mindshare on one end, and the Rise of Google on the other. They've been squeezed out of mobile utterly. They have no confidence in what they're doing. They'll try to report on anything that *might* make them look dynamic to the unsuspecting.
I've been running 8 in VB for a while now, and it sucks. Metro is useless. It took me days to figure out how to just get back to the Metro 'page'. I had to restart the machine (virtually) and reopen whatever. IE10 in Metro is pretty good (lookswise) but isn't that functional. The new desktop in 8 is pretty much the same. But it takes some getting used to switching from metro to the desktop every time. Here is my breakdown on Windows starting with XP (keep in mind that I actually like XP)
XP: Completely functional and aesthetically adequate - not fancy, but does what you want
Vista: Do I even need to say this? Buggy, not functional and a complete mess in looks
7: Less functional than anything previously, but almost aesthetically adequate
8: Completely non functional, a mess in aesthetics
PS:
DOS: Completely functional in every way + more, but lacking in looks at all
Tallest, it's no longer an "icon"- that was so yesterday..., remember-. It's live tiles now. If you don't like the most revolutionary change made to the iconic 30-year-old-GUI, you can always stay with the older Windows, "the WOlds", or perhaps you can install a software which will bypass the live tiles and straight to desktop plus a Start menu makeover on Windows 8. It would be clunky, but that'll work if you prefer to get stuck in the past. I am sure with the potential of many who would "migrate" to Windows 8, there would be plenty of 3rd party solutions to what you are asking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Look, can we use custom icons for Metro yet? It's one thing to completely change how the computer is used, alienating a huge portion of your existing market, it's another to not let us at least change it so that it's not torture just to look at.
Unlikely? The numbers are the numbers... Microsoft has cash in hand for sales not yet recorded.
whether or not Win8 will 'deploy' will be one thing, but Microsoft is 'selling' these licenses now. If you're a corporation, you're buying a Win8 License Day 1 post-release. You may overwrite it with your enterprise image, but you own the license.
I want to have a Win8 VM in parallel with my Win7 and XPsp2, as part of my infosec analysis work, but 'use' it? dunno.
Sorry, though numbers are numbers, we're past the first grade, and it's not numbers but the numbers' meanings that are important. Financial accounting is a funny animal, and its pretty easy to create transactions as Sales Revenue to give the impression that a product is doing well when that is not the case.
You only have to go back 10 years to listen the SJ discuss how Apple Music store got started and how Apple put the music/cd brick and mortar stores out of business. The record companies defined their customers as the brick and mortar stores. SJ realized the stores were NOT the real customers and completely changed the relationship between the record companies and the ultimate customer by putting iTunes in the middle and forcing the companies to account for sales to their real customers. These record companies didn't like it and I presume that the movie and tv companies are fighting Apple's push into that business for the same reason; they want to charge and account for sales to middlemen, and not per movie or tv show to the ultimate customer.
People are fond of saying you can lie with statistics, but that is untrue. One can be ignorant of what the numbers are saying, or make incorrect inferences about what the numbers are saying, but the numbers and statistics don't lie.
Yes, these figures wouldn't be actual 'sales', rather they are forced purchases to vendors who will have to sell new machines with Windows 8 - or else.
The numbers sound "impressive", $780 million in pre-sales...
But something is afoot. Given the price points for Windows, even if it's all at the "discounted" $70, that's just over 10 million copies sold? Apple sold 3 million copies of OS X Mountain Lion in its first 3 days. Compare those, as they seem to me to be the closest comparison of sales strength.
Last time I heard Ballmer comparing M$ and Apple, he was touting their total >90% dominance of the OS market. This doesn't strike me as all THAT dominant. Especially when compared to say, 2002.
Here it implies more like a 70/30 split of desktop OS share, and that doesn't count the near-ubiquitous iOS base. If we're counting iPads in the PC totals (as some analysts do), then it's OSX + iOS vs Windows. By that measure I imagine they're easily neck and neck, or Apple is actually a good margin ahead.
In any case, wow... What a difference a decade makes.
The numbers sound "impressive", $780 million in pre-sales...
But something is afoot. Given the price points for Windows, even if it's all at the "discounted" $70, that's just over 10 million copies sold? Apple sold 3 million copies of OS X Mountain Lion in its first 3 days. Compare those, as they seem to me to be the closest comparison of sales strength.
Last time I heard Ballmer comparing M$ and Apple, he was touting their total >90% dominance of the OS market. This doesn't strike me as all THAT dominant. Especially when compared to say, 2002.
Here it implies more like a 70/30 split of desktop OS share, and that doesn't count the near-ubiquitous iOS base. If we're counting iPads in the PC totals (as some analysts do), then it's OSX + iOS vs Windows. By that measure I imagine they're easily neck and neck, or Apple is actually a good margin ahead.
In any case, wow... What a difference a decade makes.
I'd guess that it's more copes than that because it's lomg term OEM deals that are much cheaper per unit. One could then say it's more impressive if it's more units but i say it isn't which is why they only posted a revenue figure.
The numbers sound "impressive", $780 million in pre-sales...
But something is afoot. Given the price points for Windows, even if it's all at the "discounted" $70, that's just over 10 million copies sold? Apple sold 3 million copies of OS X Mountain Lion in its first 3 days. Compare those, as they seem to me to be the closest comparison of sales strength.
Last time I heard Ballmer comparing M$ and Apple, he was touting their total >90% dominance of the OS market. This doesn't strike me as all THAT dominant. Especially when compared to say, 2002.
Here it implies more like a 70/30 split of desktop OS share, and that doesn't count the near-ubiquitous iOS base. If we're counting iPads in the PC totals (as some analysts do), then it's OSX + iOS vs Windows. By that measure I imagine they're easily neck and neck, or Apple is actually a good margin ahead.
In any case, wow... What a difference a decade makes.
Psst..., You forgot to add another 25,600,000 Windows 7 PC's eligible for the USD 15 upgrade to W8.
so, the 90/10 split is still intact, i.e. W8's (25,600,000+ 10,000,000) against OSX's 3,000,000
If you add iOS that will change the ratio quite a bit, but not as much as you'd estimated. It will probably up the numbers to Apple's favor at most to the high teens. Furthermore, this past one decade is not enough to change Apple's fortune in OS category, but another additional decade could make an impact should M$ just stand there and do nothing, a very highly unlikely proposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
It also did not include sales of Windows 7 PCs that are eligible for a $15 upgrade to Windows 8, which amounted to another $384 million in deferred revenue.
I've been running 8 in VB for a while now, and it sucks. Metro is useless. It took me days to figure out how to just get back to the Metro 'page'. I had to restart the machine (virtually) and reopen whatever. IE10 in Metro is pretty good (lookswise) but isn't that functional. The new desktop in 8 is pretty much the same. But it takes some getting used to switching from metro to the desktop every time. Here is my breakdown on Windows starting with XP (keep in mind that I actually like XP)
XP: Completely functional and aesthetically adequate - not fancy, but does what you want
Vista: Do I even need to say this? Buggy, not functional and a complete mess in looks
7: Less functional than anything previously, but almost aesthetically adequate
8: Completely non functional, a mess in aesthetics
PS:
DOS: Completely functional in every way + more, but lacking in looks at all
That really doesn't make much sense. It sounds very clueless. But then, you had to restart to get back to Metro..? I'd be embarrassed to say that in public, though I do admire your honesty.
XP: Poor security, easy to crash with drivers dues to unprotected kernel, poor 64-bit version's compatibility, no new DX and D3D support. Adequate? Only if you are looking for something to hate. 12 years is stone age in IT, whatever people think.
Vista: New driver model, significantly improved security and stability, rock-solid after SP1, GUI updated with some modern cues but still conservative, not significantly improved over XP's philosophy.
7: modern GUI and optimizations on top of Vista's core. Stable, fast, compatible, up-to-date. The most complete Windows yet.
8: after using it in work environment since early September, promising. Took me about an hour to figure out changes over 7. Metro and Desktop not in visual sync, but both functional. Switching between, not a problem for me, but I can accept different styles will be disliked by some. Under (what I see like) common scenarios, people will sit mostly/almost exclusively on Metro or on Desktop. Much improved security, emerging Metro apps are refreshing and will make many casual users happy - heck I am happy with some, much nicer, faster, smoother, more polished than in-browser functionality.
DOS? Really? What's wrong with Burroughs B1700 and it's input switches panel? Abacus works sweet, too.
wow, I heard it was true, and it is...Apple users are pretentious A**hol*s.
have fun with your life that has nothing more than your shiny new Apple devices they shove down your throat by updating features, purposely every 6 months so that our landfills are polluted wtih iCrap. What's money, we don't mind paying Apple's high margin, they deserve the money and getting mega rich while I enjoy a new shiny iCrap twice a year. Back Microsoft piggies...back. We must always speak down to you and your customers because we are better and it's not just the Apple Koolaid talking nor the Apple RDF. We know that Apple knows our hearts and souls and gives us exactly what we want. Taht is why we don't need a real computer that allows us to control it, rather than the other way around. Must go to Apple Store........ahhhh. . LOL LOL LOL>
Comments
Guys, just wait until you see the hardware requirements to use it. It will probably not work on the same hardware that XP did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I read Apple are buying $100K worth just to give financial and moral support to Microsoft.
actually, i demand apple to do it.
with their awesome trackpads, the windows 8 experience on a mac will beat pretty much any current non-mac computer. i got win8 for free.
i want decent bootcamp drivers (mac like) for it
i paied 1699 for this amazing macbook air, so i'm being reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian
Windows 7 isnt half bad but after playing wth the beta version of 8 I wont be in any hurry to upgrade. Its the most bizzare unintuitive interface ever.
I have a feeling that Windows 7 is going to remain available for a very, very long time.
Window 7 = the new XP
Have you moved to Win8 at your work? We are still mostly WinXP. Less than a dozen people have Win7 right now and we only moved from WinS2k3 to WinS2k8 last month.
Ive been playing around with WinS12. There are lots of aspects I like about it but like Win8 there are more that seem like a huge step backwards. I don't see any part of MS's vision being overall better except for WinPh8 over WinPh7 and those sales are stagnant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Have you moved to Win7 at your work? We are still mostly WinXP.
I have one XP in my office and accounting is still on XP but not sure about IT dept. probably some of each.
Oh yeah we have Win Server 2003 on two boxes in my office.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Give it 6-8 months.
http://seattletimes.com/html/businesstechnology/2003636731_webvista26.html
Yup.
LMAO
Why does MS report sales in dollars in stead of units, as they did with prior versions of Windows?
Is this an attempt to obfuscate... if so, what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
Why does MS report sales in dollars in stead of units, as they did with prior versions of Windows?
Is this an attempt to obfuscate... if so, what?
MS is desperate to overcome Apple mindshare on one end, and the Rise of Google on the other. They've been squeezed out of mobile utterly. They have no confidence in what they're doing. They'll try to report on anything that *might* make them look dynamic to the unsuspecting.
I've been running 8 in VB for a while now, and it sucks. Metro is useless. It took me days to figure out how to just get back to the Metro 'page'. I had to restart the machine (virtually) and reopen whatever. IE10 in Metro is pretty good (lookswise) but isn't that functional. The new desktop in 8 is pretty much the same. But it takes some getting used to switching from metro to the desktop every time. Here is my breakdown on Windows starting with XP (keep in mind that I actually like XP)
XP: Completely functional and aesthetically adequate - not fancy, but does what you want
Vista: Do I even need to say this? Buggy, not functional and a complete mess in looks
7: Less functional than anything previously, but almost aesthetically adequate
8: Completely non functional, a mess in aesthetics
PS:
DOS: Completely functional in every way + more, but lacking in looks at all
Tallest, it's no longer an "icon"- that was so yesterday..., remember-. It's live tiles now. If you don't like the most revolutionary change made to the iconic 30-year-old-GUI, you can always stay with the older Windows, "the WOlds", or perhaps you can install a software which will bypass the live tiles and straight to desktop plus a Start menu makeover on Windows 8. It would be clunky, but that'll work if you prefer to get stuck in the past. I am sure with the potential of many who would "migrate" to Windows 8, there would be plenty of 3rd party solutions to what you are asking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Look, can we use custom icons for Metro yet? It's one thing to completely change how the computer is used, alienating a huge portion of your existing market, it's another to not let us at least change it so that it's not torture just to look at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
Unlikely? The numbers are the numbers... Microsoft has cash in hand for sales not yet recorded.
whether or not Win8 will 'deploy' will be one thing, but Microsoft is 'selling' these licenses now. If you're a corporation, you're buying a Win8 License Day 1 post-release. You may overwrite it with your enterprise image, but you own the license.
I want to have a Win8 VM in parallel with my Win7 and XPsp2, as part of my infosec analysis work, but 'use' it? dunno.
Sorry, though numbers are numbers, we're past the first grade, and it's not numbers but the numbers' meanings that are important. Financial accounting is a funny animal, and its pretty easy to create transactions as Sales Revenue to give the impression that a product is doing well when that is not the case.
You only have to go back 10 years to listen the SJ discuss how Apple Music store got started and how Apple put the music/cd brick and mortar stores out of business. The record companies defined their customers as the brick and mortar stores. SJ realized the stores were NOT the real customers and completely changed the relationship between the record companies and the ultimate customer by putting iTunes in the middle and forcing the companies to account for sales to their real customers. These record companies didn't like it and I presume that the movie and tv companies are fighting Apple's push into that business for the same reason; they want to charge and account for sales to middlemen, and not per movie or tv show to the ultimate customer.
People are fond of saying you can lie with statistics, but that is untrue. One can be ignorant of what the numbers are saying, or make incorrect inferences about what the numbers are saying, but the numbers and statistics don't lie.
Yep, into the MS sunset.
But something is afoot. Given the price points for Windows, even if it's all at the "discounted" $70, that's just over 10 million copies sold? Apple sold 3 million copies of OS X Mountain Lion in its first 3 days. Compare those, as they seem to me to be the closest comparison of sales strength.
Last time I heard Ballmer comparing M$ and Apple, he was touting their total >90% dominance of the OS market. This doesn't strike me as all THAT dominant. Especially when compared to say, 2002.
Here it implies more like a 70/30 split of desktop OS share, and that doesn't count the near-ubiquitous iOS base. If we're counting iPads in the PC totals (as some analysts do), then it's OSX + iOS vs Windows. By that measure I imagine they're easily neck and neck, or Apple is actually a good margin ahead.
In any case, wow... What a difference a decade makes.
I'd guess that it's more copes than that because it's lomg term OEM deals that are much cheaper per unit. One could then say it's more impressive if it's more units but i say it isn't which is why they only posted a revenue figure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical
The numbers sound "impressive", $780 million in pre-sales...
But something is afoot. Given the price points for Windows, even if it's all at the "discounted" $70, that's just over 10 million copies sold? Apple sold 3 million copies of OS X Mountain Lion in its first 3 days. Compare those, as they seem to me to be the closest comparison of sales strength.
Last time I heard Ballmer comparing M$ and Apple, he was touting their total >90% dominance of the OS market. This doesn't strike me as all THAT dominant. Especially when compared to say, 2002.
Here it implies more like a 70/30 split of desktop OS share, and that doesn't count the near-ubiquitous iOS base. If we're counting iPads in the PC totals (as some analysts do), then it's OSX + iOS vs Windows. By that measure I imagine they're easily neck and neck, or Apple is actually a good margin ahead.
In any case, wow... What a difference a decade makes.
Psst..., You forgot to add another 25,600,000 Windows 7 PC's eligible for the USD 15 upgrade to W8.
so, the 90/10 split is still intact, i.e. W8's (25,600,000+ 10,000,000) against OSX's 3,000,000
If you add iOS that will change the ratio quite a bit, but not as much as you'd estimated. It will probably up the numbers to Apple's favor at most to the high teens. Furthermore, this past one decade is not enough to change Apple's fortune in OS category, but another additional decade could make an impact should M$ just stand there and do nothing, a very highly unlikely proposition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
It also did not include sales of Windows 7 PCs that are eligible for a $15 upgrade to Windows 8, which amounted to another $384 million in deferred revenue.
That really doesn't make much sense. It sounds very clueless. But then, you had to restart to get back to Metro..? I'd be embarrassed to say that in public, though I do admire your honesty.
XP: Poor security, easy to crash with drivers dues to unprotected kernel, poor 64-bit version's compatibility, no new DX and D3D support. Adequate? Only if you are looking for something to hate. 12 years is stone age in IT, whatever people think.
Vista: New driver model, significantly improved security and stability, rock-solid after SP1, GUI updated with some modern cues but still conservative, not significantly improved over XP's philosophy.
7: modern GUI and optimizations on top of Vista's core. Stable, fast, compatible, up-to-date. The most complete Windows yet.
8: after using it in work environment since early September, promising. Took me about an hour to figure out changes over 7. Metro and Desktop not in visual sync, but both functional. Switching between, not a problem for me, but I can accept different styles will be disliked by some. Under (what I see like) common scenarios, people will sit mostly/almost exclusively on Metro or on Desktop. Much improved security, emerging Metro apps are refreshing and will make many casual users happy - heck I am happy with some, much nicer, faster, smoother, more polished than in-browser functionality.
DOS? Really? What's wrong with Burroughs B1700 and it's input switches panel? Abacus works sweet, too.
have fun with your life that has nothing more than your shiny new Apple devices they shove down your throat by updating features, purposely every 6 months so that our landfills are polluted wtih iCrap.
What's money, we don't mind paying Apple's high margin, they deserve the money and getting mega rich while I enjoy a new shiny iCrap twice a year.
Back Microsoft piggies...back. We must always speak down to you and your customers because we are better and it's not just the Apple Koolaid talking nor the Apple RDF. We know that Apple knows our hearts and souls and gives us exactly what we want. Taht is why we don't need a real computer that allows us to control it, rather than the other way around. Must go to Apple Store........ahhhh. . LOL LOL LOL>