"iPod touch viewed as in final stage of product life cycle"
Someone needs to stop sniffing glue. Either that or AppleInsider is trying to troll for people to post because their advertisers are not seeing enough hits. There is no way that the iPad Mini will, in ANY way be a sign that the iPod Touch is going to be discontinued. If anything, the price point for the new iPad shows just the opposite. It showed that the Touch is so strong as to let them keep the price of iPad Mini at the higher price point.
I feel like a complete broken record! The kids/poor mans iPhone is getting old. The iPod Touch also has a group of people that use it exactly like a smartphone. I have been doing almost all my personal and some professional email through an iPod Touch for the past four years. Now I do a good portion of text messaging through iMessage as well. Why would I pay for a dataplan when I pay for home internet and have wifi at work? I love the convenience of the apps on the iPod Touch but I have zero intention of paying a monthly fee to enjoy it. My iPod Touch is almost always on my person right next to my simple Samsung feature phone. If one battery dies I have the other. The new iPod Touch has been fantastic already. The camera takes fantastic quick photos when I need information off the back of a server. I am not saying my use is typical nor a huge demographic but we are still here. I could easily afford the data plan I just don't see the point in wasting the money for it.
1. iTunes Match is not free, thus adding to the cost of the Touch.
2. iCloud only works for music that was bought in the apple store. How many kids do you know that actually pay for their music instead of downloading it for free and taking it from friends
3. Your daughter could fill up 8gb with two movies and nothing else. Apps take up a lot more space now than they used to and photos can eat up space really quickly too. Not to mention the videos she would take with the device. 8 gb is not enough anymore which is why Apple isn't selling it.
1- If you have multiple Macs and iOS devices- iTunes Match is a no brainer
2- See number 1- so this nullifies number 2. And if they steal music or borrow from friends- then they DEFINITELY need iTunes Match!
3- You are obviously very out of touch or being unrealistic about space and what all you can fill on 8gb of data. 2 4gb videos? What do you have- 1080p HD? Because all SD ones are 1-2gb (2gb max)- that's through iTunes. If you're coding your own for a small iDevice and your coding it at 4gb- you're crazy and get, literally- zero benefit.
Videos you take with the device fill up space quickly, yes. Photos arent terrible by any stretch, and Apps aren't terrible either- particularly Apps that are not productivity apps (my 3 largest are iWork apps- 1gb total between the 3. But kids and wives don't have that). I'm not saying you or I wouldn't need more memory- 8gb wouldnt cut it for me- at all. 16gb is fine, 32 is preferred. But 8gb is more than enough for a large amount of the population (The population that has a couple hundred songs, maybe a movie, check e-mail, surfs the web, uses facebook, iMessage, twitter, instagram, etc.). Thats a HUGE amount of the iPhone, iPod and iPad population btw...
It's 70, minimum, for the phone in its own right. If the kid wants an iPhone and the parents have to adapt their plan for it, that's the cost incurred.
And in the example I mentioned, $40 per phone and then $60 on top is with three phones. Split that equally and it's $60 each. That's Verizon, at least.
Why does AI bother posting this crap from this so called analyst? An analyst with a track record that sucks in reality.
The Mini will not materially impact the Touch due to the devices serving completely different markets. Honestly it comes down to how well the device fits in a pocket.
Like someone said earlier, Apple doesn't need my comments to succeed or fail. I personally like my iPad 3rd version, albeit of course I'd like a fourth generation because its faster. I also will grab an iPad mini because I really like the size, there are times I find the current iPad size too large, where a smaller screen would suit me better and an iPhone is still too small for tome things.
That being said, I too wonder why the iPod touch was updated, or if it'll remain a viable product when compared too the iPad mini. If it had been my decision, of course I'd still make the new iPod touch as its a nice alternative compared to the iPhone but in comparison to the iPad mini, seems over priced now. I wonder if or when Apple will lowers the price on the iPod touch? It's a bit pricey in the lineup, IMHO.
One parting thought or question, no one seems to bring up, is that the storage apace of the iPad continues to be topped at 64 GB's. I for one would LOVE to have more space, as I'm limited to room on it currently, even with storing documents in the cloud, apps continue to grow in size and we all seem to be buying more and more we want on our devices. That and upping the download over LTE would be nice too. Free wifi is abundantly available, sure, bit it's habitually slower than LTE speeds these days. A 100 MB file is easily down in no time on our super-fast LTE services...
So how are all these 12 year olds affording $70 a month for an iPhone, anyway? The iPod touch still has a huge market, and always will.
They aren't. The parents can also put their old iPhones on prepaid plans and not to be an ass, but a lot of the kids don't seem to mind Android which is also much more available on prepaid plans. The nature of the market that helped bring about the iPod Touch has completely changed. Kids used to have their "texting" cell phone but now they want an iPhone/Android that is passed down or other providers don't mind offering inexpensive new Android phones. When Samsung lost their case to Apple, the most profitable model they sold was a prepaid Android phone here in the U.S.
Phones like this are available for $35-45 a month depending upon the provider. PagePlus has a very nice $30/$55 plan that I've seen loads of older Android phones go on. I've got an iPhone 3GS on a plan with Airvoice for $10 a month that will probably be going to one of my boys for Christmas. Used iPhones and especially used Androids are going for less than the new iPod which starts with year old technology. The point is that year old technology in smart phones has often depreciated in price down to $300 or less. I've also heard plenty of younger (than me) folks mention the T-mobile plans which start at $30.
You are right that many won't spring for full plans and brand new phones but the pace of progress has been so fast that even older technology is still adequate. We have to believe this because that is what Apple is still selling in the iPod Touch and what they just introduced in the "brand new" iPad Mini.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileyDude
The thing about the 12 year olds with iPhones is that it's a lot cheaper than it first appears. First off, a 12 year old with an iPhone probably also has a family. And that means that they will probably have an existing family plan that can be used. That brings down the cost of additional iPhones -- on AT&T, it would be $30/month to add an additional iPhone with 300MB data plan, for example.
The other thing is that most parents probably don't go out and buy their 12 year old an iPhone new. Instead, they can hand down that iPhone 4 that isn't being used anymore because mom and dad got new iPhones. That also saves some money over the iPod touch which would cost a minimum of $200 to buy new.
If that 12 year old is already carrying around a cell phone for some other reason, the delta between a free feature phone and a hand me down iPhone is now $20/month on AT&T. If you assume that the iPod touch is going to last for about 2 years, that means the iPhone is costing an additional $40 over 2 years. That is not anywhere near the $70/month that was being quoted above.
It can be even less than that if the parents simply find a way not to add data. There are all manner of folks on Craigslist advertising services for folks that are not tech savvy with regard to jailbreaking, flashing, etc. We are assuming the kids need data plans. Many parents might just be handing them a SIM and an older phone and we adults are wondering why all the kids are at Starbucks and McDonalds after school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
What a load of crap. iPhones are not "free". They cost about $2,000 with their two year contract. The iPod Touch is the most popular selling iPod. Many people prefer the iPod Touch because there is no monthly fee. iPod Touches are not solely used by children, as you Apple Fanbois would like to believe. Many adults use them as well because they don't want to pay an expensive monthly fee for a phone, when they can find a cell phone for much less. So the iPod Touch provides a nice alternative.
The iPad Mini won't cannibalize the iPod Touch because they are not the same. The iPod Touch is far more portable and easy to take with you. The iPad and iPad mini, not so much.
The iPod Classic does not need any updates. It serves one purpose, to carry large libraries. That is why Apple still sells it.
You are 100% right that it does provide a nice and also inexpensive alternative. The reality is that Apple hasn't seemed much interested in inexpensive alternatives the last couple years. Prices are drifting up and each time we are told the design and specs warrant the increase and they will forgo the cheaper customers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
35 a month (9.99 plus a $25 data plan on top of parents phone) is the typical cost... but yes, it's a huge uplift.
I'm seeing $40 for every phone on top of $60.
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji
these 12 year olds will get iPad minis instead.
Different device, different uses, different market.
Straight Talk is $45. T-mobile is $30. Airvoice can be as cheap as $10. Both my boys have smartphones on PagePlus right now for $12 a month. They don't get unlimited everything but they do get a device that does more than an iPod which can only use wifi. Both of them still own iPod's though because we are a Apple family. However both have discussed selling their iPods or trying to get down to one device even with limited service. They are no different than the adults there. Less to charge and less in the pocket.
The iPod touch has a lot of room, however it probably with a price drop go further than said however it might lose costumes for the iPod nano which is just a few steps from matching it. The iPods are closer to there final stage than iPhone, yet will continue for years.
Exactly this statement is 100% incorrect not all people have the money to get an iphone because of the contract and data plan. I don't believe that the iPad mini will affect iPod touch sales drastically but their are still people that want a device that can fit inside of their pocket.
Seeing that it is overpriced because it doesn't offer a smaller model- yup.
It should have offered an 8gb $229 or $199 version. It didn't- and I, too, predicted the end of the Touch. Then they come out with the $30 too expensive iPad mini (psychologically speaking). I would have bought a $229 iPod Touch and a $299 iPad mini. As it stands, I'll get neither.
I appreciate their stance of making quality products- which is how it should be- but you can't have Tallest saying "How are 12 year olds going to afford..." and then price it at 300 bones! Give a smaller price point for those 12 year olds...
You are aware that Apple sell the 4th Gen iPod touch for $199 with 16GB or $249 with 32GB
1- If you have multiple Macs and iOS devices- iTunes Match is a no brainer
2- See number 1- so this nullifies number 2. And if they steal music or borrow from friends- then they DEFINITELY need iTunes Match!
3- You are obviously very out of touch or being unrealistic about space and what all you can fill on 8gb of data. 2 4gb videos? What do you have- 1080p HD? Because all SD ones are 1-2gb (2gb max)- that's through iTunes. If you're coding your own for a small iDevice and your coding it at 4gb- you're crazy and get, literally- zero benefit.
Videos you take with the device fill up space quickly, yes. Photos arent terrible by any stretch, and Apps aren't terrible either- particularly Apps that are not productivity apps (my 3 largest are iWork apps- 1gb total between the 3. But kids and wives don't have that). I'm not saying you or I wouldn't need more memory- 8gb wouldnt cut it for me- at all. 16gb is fine, 32 is preferred. But 8gb is more than enough for a large amount of the population (The population that has a couple hundred songs, maybe a movie, check e-mail, surfs the web, uses facebook, iMessage, twitter, instagram, etc.). Thats a HUGE amount of the iPhone, iPod and iPad population btw...
8GB (6ish useable) is insufficient these days, 16GB is a minimum (14ish useable). A video (my HD movies average 2.7GB in size but these are also served to iPads and Apple TV's in 720p) a few albums and a couple of apps (most modern games are 300mb -1GB these days) is all you are going to get on the touch with 8GB. Of course, Apple know this, thats why storage starts at 16GB.
That's not even close. The new Touch is a redesign and is thinner, at 6.1mm, than the iPhone 5 is. So clearly Apple had to put investment into that. It's a different form factor.
I think Apple will look to take future iPhones to that form factor, but it's probably a couple of years away.
The iPod Touch doesn't have a cellular radio and therefore doesn't need the battery to drive a cellular radio. That's why it can be thinner. That's not rocket science.
Any links to his 'strong track record in relation to Apple's future plans?'. I'm not sure I buy this. I think the iPad Mini will sell well, but I have a really hard time seeing it replace something that fits in your pocket.
Besides, Apple gets the iPod touch pretty easily because of the R&D they put into the iPhone. There are thousands of new apps released for it every year and it's staying up to date because of that. I can't imagine them getting rid of it. Not everyone wants/needs or can afford an iPhone.
… erm, I thought Apple was prepping to break into the point & shoot camera market with the iPod Touch? Hence the loop?
The Touch fits nicely in Apple's product line. Small enough to fit in your pocket, big enough to have comfy facetime calls with other Apple devices. If I were Apple I'd make the Touch the flagship of the iPod line up. They somehow need to figure out a way to add GPS to the Touch.
Comments
Someone needs to stop sniffing glue. Either that or AppleInsider is trying to troll for people to post because their advertisers are not seeing enough hits. There is no way that the iPad Mini will, in ANY way be a sign that the iPod Touch is going to be discontinued. If anything, the price point for the new iPad shows just the opposite. It showed that the Touch is so strong as to let them keep the price of iPad Mini at the higher price point.
I feel like a complete broken record! The kids/poor mans iPhone is getting old. The iPod Touch also has a group of people that use it exactly like a smartphone. I have been doing almost all my personal and some professional email through an iPod Touch for the past four years. Now I do a good portion of text messaging through iMessage as well. Why would I pay for a dataplan when I pay for home internet and have wifi at work? I love the convenience of the apps on the iPod Touch but I have zero intention of paying a monthly fee to enjoy it. My iPod Touch is almost always on my person right next to my simple Samsung feature phone. If one battery dies I have the other. The new iPod Touch has been fantastic already. The camera takes fantastic quick photos when I need information off the back of a server. I am not saying my use is typical nor a huge demographic but we are still here. I could easily afford the data plan I just don't see the point in wasting the money for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233
1. iTunes Match is not free, thus adding to the cost of the Touch.
2. iCloud only works for music that was bought in the apple store. How many kids do you know that actually pay for their music instead of downloading it for free and taking it from friends
3. Your daughter could fill up 8gb with two movies and nothing else. Apps take up a lot more space now than they used to and photos can eat up space really quickly too. Not to mention the videos she would take with the device. 8 gb is not enough anymore which is why Apple isn't selling it.
1- If you have multiple Macs and iOS devices- iTunes Match is a no brainer
2- See number 1- so this nullifies number 2. And if they steal music or borrow from friends- then they DEFINITELY need iTunes Match!
3- You are obviously very out of touch or being unrealistic about space and what all you can fill on 8gb of data. 2 4gb videos? What do you have- 1080p HD? Because all SD ones are 1-2gb (2gb max)- that's through iTunes. If you're coding your own for a small iDevice and your coding it at 4gb- you're crazy and get, literally- zero benefit.
Videos you take with the device fill up space quickly, yes. Photos arent terrible by any stretch, and Apps aren't terrible either- particularly Apps that are not productivity apps (my 3 largest are iWork apps- 1gb total between the 3. But kids and wives don't have that). I'm not saying you or I wouldn't need more memory- 8gb wouldnt cut it for me- at all. 16gb is fine, 32 is preferred. But 8gb is more than enough for a large amount of the population (The population that has a couple hundred songs, maybe a movie, check e-mail, surfs the web, uses facebook, iMessage, twitter, instagram, etc.). Thats a HUGE amount of the iPhone, iPod and iPad population btw...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I'm seeing $40 for every phone on top of $60.
Then why'd you say $70?
Originally Posted by Andysol
Then why'd you say $70?
It's 70, minimum, for the phone in its own right. If the kid wants an iPhone and the parents have to adapt their plan for it, that's the cost incurred.
And in the example I mentioned, $40 per phone and then $60 on top is with three phones. Split that equally and it's $60 each. That's Verizon, at least.
Sure hope not - iPod Touch is the way I access iPhone technology without having to pay the
ransom of monthly cellular fees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
If the kid wants an iPhone and the parents have to adapt their plan for it, that's the cost incurred.
Nope.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
And in the example I mentioned, $40 per phone and then $60 on top is with three phones. Split that equally and it's $60 each.
Then why'd you say $70?
The Mini will not materially impact the Touch due to the devices serving completely different markets. Honestly it comes down to how well the device fits in a pocket.
Originally Posted by Andysol
Nope.
Okay, we'll have to normalize our plans, then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
The iPod Classic does not need any updates. It serves one purpose, to carry large libraries. That is why Apple still sells it.
It could get more space. And more importantly the new lighting connecter.
That being said, I too wonder why the iPod touch was updated, or if it'll remain a viable product when compared too the iPad mini. If it had been my decision, of course I'd still make the new iPod touch as its a nice alternative compared to the iPhone but in comparison to the iPad mini, seems over priced now. I wonder if or when Apple will lowers the price on the iPod touch? It's a bit pricey in the lineup, IMHO.
One parting thought or question, no one seems to bring up, is that the storage apace of the iPad continues to be topped at 64 GB's. I for one would LOVE to have more space, as I'm limited to room on it currently, even with storing documents in the cloud, apps continue to grow in size and we all seem to be buying more and more we want on our devices. That and upping the download over LTE would be nice too. Free wifi is abundantly available, sure, bit it's habitually slower than LTE speeds these days. A 100 MB file is easily down in no time on our super-fast LTE services...
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnswilson1
[...] If they want gaming, video (in bigger size), and more they'll go with iPad mini.
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233
And if they don't, they'll go with the touch which does the same things but also fits in your pocket and costs less.
What is this iPod Touch of which you speak? Do you mean the new iPad Nano?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So how are all these 12 year olds affording $70 a month for an iPhone, anyway? The iPod touch still has a huge market, and always will.
They aren't. The parents can also put their old iPhones on prepaid plans and not to be an ass, but a lot of the kids don't seem to mind Android which is also much more available on prepaid plans. The nature of the market that helped bring about the iPod Touch has completely changed. Kids used to have their "texting" cell phone but now they want an iPhone/Android that is passed down or other providers don't mind offering inexpensive new Android phones. When Samsung lost their case to Apple, the most profitable model they sold was a prepaid Android phone here in the U.S.
Phones like this are available for $35-45 a month depending upon the provider. PagePlus has a very nice $30/$55 plan that I've seen loads of older Android phones go on. I've got an iPhone 3GS on a plan with Airvoice for $10 a month that will probably be going to one of my boys for Christmas. Used iPhones and especially used Androids are going for less than the new iPod which starts with year old technology. The point is that year old technology in smart phones has often depreciated in price down to $300 or less. I've also heard plenty of younger (than me) folks mention the T-mobile plans which start at $30.
You are right that many won't spring for full plans and brand new phones but the pace of progress has been so fast that even older technology is still adequate. We have to believe this because that is what Apple is still selling in the iPod Touch and what they just introduced in the "brand new" iPad Mini.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmileyDude
The thing about the 12 year olds with iPhones is that it's a lot cheaper than it first appears. First off, a 12 year old with an iPhone probably also has a family. And that means that they will probably have an existing family plan that can be used. That brings down the cost of additional iPhones -- on AT&T, it would be $30/month to add an additional iPhone with 300MB data plan, for example.
The other thing is that most parents probably don't go out and buy their 12 year old an iPhone new. Instead, they can hand down that iPhone 4 that isn't being used anymore because mom and dad got new iPhones. That also saves some money over the iPod touch which would cost a minimum of $200 to buy new.
If that 12 year old is already carrying around a cell phone for some other reason, the delta between a free feature phone and a hand me down iPhone is now $20/month on AT&T. If you assume that the iPod touch is going to last for about 2 years, that means the iPhone is costing an additional $40 over 2 years. That is not anywhere near the $70/month that was being quoted above.
It can be even less than that if the parents simply find a way not to add data. There are all manner of folks on Craigslist advertising services for folks that are not tech savvy with regard to jailbreaking, flashing, etc. We are assuming the kids need data plans. Many parents might just be handing them a SIM and an older phone and we adults are wondering why all the kids are at Starbucks and McDonalds after school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones
What a load of crap. iPhones are not "free". They cost about $2,000 with their two year contract. The iPod Touch is the most popular selling iPod. Many people prefer the iPod Touch because there is no monthly fee. iPod Touches are not solely used by children, as you Apple Fanbois would like to believe. Many adults use them as well because they don't want to pay an expensive monthly fee for a phone, when they can find a cell phone for much less. So the iPod Touch provides a nice alternative.
The iPad Mini won't cannibalize the iPod Touch because they are not the same. The iPod Touch is far more portable and easy to take with you. The iPad and iPad mini, not so much.
The iPod Classic does not need any updates. It serves one purpose, to carry large libraries. That is why Apple still sells it.
You are 100% right that it does provide a nice and also inexpensive alternative. The reality is that Apple hasn't seemed much interested in inexpensive alternatives the last couple years. Prices are drifting up and each time we are told the design and specs warrant the increase and they will forgo the cheaper customers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff
35 a month (9.99 plus a $25 data plan on top of parents phone) is the typical cost... but yes, it's a huge uplift.
I'm seeing $40 for every phone on top of $60.
Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji
these 12 year olds will get iPad minis instead.
Different device, different uses, different market.
Straight Talk is $45. T-mobile is $30. Airvoice can be as cheap as $10. Both my boys have smartphones on PagePlus right now for $12 a month. They don't get unlimited everything but they do get a device that does more than an iPod which can only use wifi. Both of them still own iPod's though because we are a Apple family. However both have discussed selling their iPods or trying to get down to one device even with limited service. They are no different than the adults there. Less to charge and less in the pocket.
You are aware that Apple sell the 4th Gen iPod touch for $199 with 16GB or $249 with 32GB
8GB (6ish useable) is insufficient these days, 16GB is a minimum (14ish useable). A video (my HD movies average 2.7GB in size but these are also served to iPads and Apple TV's in 720p) a few albums and a couple of apps (most modern games are 300mb -1GB these days) is all you are going to get on the touch with 8GB. Of course, Apple know this, thats why storage starts at 16GB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnswilson1
That's not even close. The new Touch is a redesign and is thinner, at 6.1mm, than the iPhone 5 is. So clearly Apple had to put investment into that. It's a different form factor.
I think Apple will look to take future iPhones to that form factor, but it's probably a couple of years away.
The iPod Touch doesn't have a cellular radio and therefore doesn't need the battery to drive a cellular radio. That's why it can be thinner. That's not rocket science.
Besides, Apple gets the iPod touch pretty easily because of the R&D they put into the iPhone. There are thousands of new apps released for it every year and it's staying up to date because of that. I can't imagine them getting rid of it. Not everyone wants/needs or can afford an iPhone.
I just don't see this...
… erm, I thought Apple was prepping to break into the point & shoot camera market with the iPod Touch? Hence the loop?
The Touch fits nicely in Apple's product line. Small enough to fit in your pocket, big enough to have comfy facetime calls with other Apple devices. If I were Apple I'd make the Touch the flagship of the iPod line up. They somehow need to figure out a way to add GPS to the Touch.