I was surprised Apple showed the Android tablet. But than I thought about it. The show is for the media, not consumers. The media was already comparing the Mini to the $199 Nexus even before the Mini was released. Apple knew the market would judge it based on how close it came to that price. Apple essentially needed to show what the extra $140 was buying you. In terms of hardware, that amounts to a metal enclosure, an extra 8 GB of RAM, and 2 cameras (one a 5 MB one). Then Apple pointed out the ecosystem differences. The show was meant for journalists who were already going to compare the Nexus to the Mini. Apple pointed out issues to consider for the journalists while writing the reviews.
Yeah except Google is going to come out on Friday with a 32GB Nexus for cheaper than the mini. Focusing on Nexus was a bad idea. Just pitch it as a more affordable iPad with all the great features of the bigger iPad and the great ecosystem plus thin and light design with great build quality. That's all Schiller needed to do.
The average consumer might be fine with a Kia cause it gets them from point A to point B but there are some consumers that demand a Lexus.
And sorry but you are a bit wrong about the notion that design means nothing to the average consumer. It means as much as price. They might not break it down into parts but the design factors into their notion of value for the cost and if they believe something is high value for what they are paying then a higher price means less.
Yeah it always amazes me how much people dismiss design or call it trivial. Even though design factors into just about every decision people make. Clothes, shoes, furniture, handbags, cars, homes, etc. are all influenced by design. It might be hard to put a price on design but it does matter to people and does influence their purchasing decisions.
Yeah it always amazes me how much people dismiss design or call it trivial.
When people dismiss design as trivial, you know the design is either the best it can be, or it's close. When people stop thinking about how it's designed so much that they dismiss the very idea of design itself, you know it's about as simple as it can be.
Talk about "design getting out of the way of usability", eh?
The 3rd gen is awesome but at $400, the 2 is unbelievably priced - especially with the battery life on the 32nm process. I miss the performance (and of course the screen) of the 3rd gen but, for me, the 2 is the unsung hero of the line up. So I was unclear - I didn't mean that the 3rd gen was a worse machine or a bad value. Rather, that the 2 is a screaming value (and so it annoys me every time a news article describes iPad as starting at $499 and completely ignores the 2).
Please explain. I've owned all iPhones, all iPads and a lot of Macs, a car, a motorbike, bikes, toys, board games, consoles and other stuff and I can say with my hand on my heart the iPad 3rd gen is the best product I've ever owned. The screen is what makes it for me. I'm still in awe of it 6 months on. It's one of the few products I've owned that I like as much now as I did on day one. And despite the resolution, my concern with it being more sluggish than iPad 2 as a result were unfounded, thankfully :-)
The 3rd gen is awesome but at $400, the 2 is unbelievably priced - especially with the battery life on the 32nm process. I miss the performance (and of course the screen) of the 3rd gen but, for me, the 2 is the unsung hero of the line up. So I was unclear - I didn't mean that the 3rd gen was a worse machine or a bad value. Rather, that the 2 is a screaming value (and so it annoys me every time a news article describes iPad as starting at $499 and completely ignores the 2).
At $329, perhaps Apple is positioning themselves to more easily offer a 2nd generation iPad Mini in 6-12 months with Retina display and updated CPU but hold the price steady.
The 3rd gen is awesome but at $400, the 2 is unbelievably priced - especially with the battery life on the 32nm process. I miss the performance (and of course the screen) of the 3rd gen but, for me, the 2 is the unsung hero of the line up. So I was unclear - I didn't mean that the 3rd gen was a worse machine or a bad value. Rather, that the 2 is a screaming value (and so it annoys me every time a news article describes iPad as starting at $499 and completely ignores the 2).
But now the Mini is even more affordable, with same resolution/performance and improved cameras. I wouldn't even consider the iPad 2 for a second with the Mini in the lineup. I am thinking the Mini might outsell the full size model.
At $329, perhaps Apple is positioning themselves to more easily offer a 2nd generation iPad Mini in 6-12 months with Retina display and updated CPU but hold the price steady.
More like 12 or 24 months. Apple isn't changing to a 6 month update schedule just because they slipped in one early update.
If it is in 12 months, the Retina Mini will go up in price. If 24 months it might hold the line.
Going with 12 months I think it they might do this:
You're presuming consumers see 'cheaper' and always go for that, when if history is any indicator the opposite is true. Apple makes premium products and this fits perfectly in line with that.
I call BS on this statement. If you research the numbers, the iPod Mini went on to out sell the "then" Standard iPod and when the first Nano came out, it became the best selling iPod in the history of the device...not until the iPod Touch did the Nano loose market share of portable media players.
I think they needed to price it at $299. If they were to sell 10 Million of these, they're down $300 Million but they knock the competition out of the water and lock 10 million consumers into the ecosystem. These 10 million are nearly guaranteed to buy the next iteration. Short term loss for a lock of the market. They should have done it.
Given what I've read about sales on the iPad "line" The 32GB was the best selling model. It is true that lowering the selling price to that magical $x99.00 price is more enticing to the customer though. However. Look at the numbers and you'll see why it probably won't make a difference here.
32GB wifi iPad Mini = $429.00.
If they sell 10M devices in this Quarter, that = $4.29B
At this gross sales, they would have to sell 14.35M iPad Mini's at $299.00
The question is, does Apple have the manufacturing ability to produce that many more just to equal those numbers or better?
My guess is probably not, due to supply constraints. We already heard rumbling about supply constraints on the display end...so it's quite logical to think the $329 starting price is based on supply, not demand. They can only build so many, so quickly.
Why not take a trip to Chengdu and crack the whip a little harder if you want to see a $299 price point? The Foxcon Employee's are already (quite literally) killing themselves to make as many iPads as they can under the current supply and labor conditions. Not to mention that it's been widely reported that the "bargin basement" iPad has never sold as well as the Middle of the road models.
Agreed this should have been $299 if Apple really wanted to deliver a knockout punch to imitation Android market. Probably the most amazing part of the original iPad's introduction was the price! Everybody.. and I mean Everybody expected it to cost around $700-800. When Steve said $499 people's jaws literally dropped. You could pretty much say the opposite happened with the mini announcement, as the price was higher than most people expected. Especially considering its using the guts of a 2 year old iPad2.
While I have no doubt Apple will sell every one they can make this holiday season at the advertised $329 price, I dont understand why they continue to let Android's "me-too" products hang around. They have a $100Billion in the bank, its not like they NEED the extra $30 in profit off each mini sale. I strongly believe most people want an iPad, when they look at whats available in tablet selection.. but many just cant afford the steeper price. Pricing the mini at $299 instead of $329, would have a psychological reinforcement on the people's desire to want an iPad.. and accept nothing else.
I also think the $299 mini price was important because its so low it could become the "gateway drug" into Apple's products. For the longest time I was on the other side of the fence.. one of those people who believed Apple's products were overhyped, overpriced and delivered less performance than the competition. My gateway experience was the $229 iPod nano. After buying several mp3 players in 2004 & 2005.. from makers like Creative Labs, iRiver, flash memory makers.. and being a bit disappointed in them. I finally gave the $229 Nano a try, mainly because it was cheap enough that I was willing to give it a try. The Nano worked so much better than every other mp3 player I had used, that I couldnt believe I waited so long to buy a real iPod. And it wasnt just me, my girlfriend used it.. weeks later she bought one. Same happened with my best friend. The point is, the price needs to be low enough that people will give the "Apple experience" a try. Once they've taken a bite, they understand why Apple products cost more.. because the entire experience delivers more. From the packaging, to the Apple store, to the user experience, to the software, to the appstore, to the build quality to even the resale value. You just dont get the same expereience with the "me too" imitation stuff.
That $229 Nano I bought in '05, led me to buy the $199 iPhoneGS3 in June '09. Which lead me to buy the $999 Macbook in 2010. Which lead me to buy the $179 Extreme router, $99 ATV and $499 iPad in 2011. Before I knew it.. the $229 Nano had turned my house into $3000 worth of Apple electronics over a period of 5 years. Im sure there are many people out there who share the same Apple story I do.
I share your story as well.
It started with the original iPod Shuffle.
2006 was a refurb iPod Mini.
2009, the iPod Classic, iPhone 3G
2010, Apple TV Gen 2
2011, iPad 2, iPhone 4
Late 2012 and 2013, iPad Mini for my better half, Macbook, iPhone Gen (2013), iPad Gen 5 (only if it's lighter)
See my last post above for the reply to the rest of your post.
Apple should have pitched this differently. They should have pitched this as a smaller form factor iPad that has all the capabilities of its big brother but with a thinner and lighter design and more affordable price. By bringing up the Nexus in the keynote they inevitably brought in the comparisons to cheaper tablets. And of course then the biggest focus will be on price.
You obviously didn't pay much attention to the keynote. If you paid attention, you'd get that point-by-point the focus was in comparison to the iPad 2 but better. The Nexus example was about 2 minutes of a 20 minute presentation of the device.
I don't buy the premium product angle anymore. I own an iPhone 4 (which is great) and a 2010 iMac that is having software update/hard drive issues (need to get it replaced), a brand new Air (2012) which had the volume and brightness buttons go out as soon as i updated to mountain lion. I think the quality control is on the decline compared to my white 2008 macbook and the iPad mini is not worth 329 plus tax. I would have been comfortable with 249 and MAYBE 279 but 329 us just greedy and there is no excuse for greed. I ordered my kindle fire right after the price was announced. I am not a heavy tablet user but I am not paying $350 tax included for a small tablet.
I don't buy the premium product angle anymore. I own an iPhone 4 (which is great) and a 2010 iMac that is having software update/hard drive issues (need to get it replaced), a brand new Air (2012) which had the volume and brightness buttons go out as soon as i updated to mountain lion. I think the quality control is on the decline compared to my white 2008 macbook and the iPad mini is not worth 329 plus tax. I would have been comfortable with 249 and MAYBE 279 but 329 us just greedy and there is no excuse for greed. I ordered my kindle fire right after the price was announced. I am not a heavy tablet user but I am not paying $350 tax included for a small tablet.
Comments
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Yeah it always amazes me how much people dismiss design or call it trivial.
When people dismiss design as trivial, you know the design is either the best it can be, or it's close. When people stop thinking about how it's designed so much that they dismiss the very idea of design itself, you know it's about as simple as it can be.
Talk about "design getting out of the way of usability", eh?
The 3rd gen is awesome but at $400, the 2 is unbelievably priced - especially with the battery life on the 32nm process. I miss the performance (and of course the screen) of the 3rd gen but, for me, the 2 is the unsung hero of the line up. So I was unclear - I didn't mean that the 3rd gen was a worse machine or a bad value. Rather, that the 2 is a screaming value (and so it annoys me every time a news article describes iPad as starting at $499 and completely ignores the 2).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
Please explain. I've owned all iPhones, all iPads and a lot of Macs, a car, a motorbike, bikes, toys, board games, consoles and other stuff and I can say with my hand on my heart the iPad 3rd gen is the best product I've ever owned. The screen is what makes it for me. I'm still in awe of it 6 months on. It's one of the few products I've owned that I like as much now as I did on day one. And despite the resolution, my concern with it being more sluggish than iPad 2 as a result were unfounded, thankfully :-)
The 3rd gen is awesome but at $400, the 2 is unbelievably priced - especially with the battery life on the 32nm process. I miss the performance (and of course the screen) of the 3rd gen but, for me, the 2 is the unsung hero of the line up. So I was unclear - I didn't mean that the 3rd gen was a worse machine or a bad value. Rather, that the 2 is a screaming value (and so it annoys me every time a news article describes iPad as starting at $499 and completely ignores the 2).
At $329, perhaps Apple is positioning themselves to more easily offer a 2nd generation iPad Mini in 6-12 months with Retina display and updated CPU but hold the price steady.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rare comment
The 3rd gen is awesome but at $400, the 2 is unbelievably priced - especially with the battery life on the 32nm process. I miss the performance (and of course the screen) of the 3rd gen but, for me, the 2 is the unsung hero of the line up. So I was unclear - I didn't mean that the 3rd gen was a worse machine or a bad value. Rather, that the 2 is a screaming value (and so it annoys me every time a news article describes iPad as starting at $499 and completely ignores the 2).
But now the Mini is even more affordable, with same resolution/performance and improved cameras. I wouldn't even consider the iPad 2 for a second with the Mini in the lineup. I am thinking the Mini might outsell the full size model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by despeck
At $329, perhaps Apple is positioning themselves to more easily offer a 2nd generation iPad Mini in 6-12 months with Retina display and updated CPU but hold the price steady.
More like 12 or 24 months. Apple isn't changing to a 6 month update schedule just because they slipped in one early update.
If it is in 12 months, the Retina Mini will go up in price. If 24 months it might hold the line.
Going with 12 months I think it they might do this:
$299 Mini
$399 Retina Mini
$499 Retina 9.7"
Or 24 months.
$250 Mini
$350 Retina Mini
$450 Retina 9.7".
$550 Retina 11.7"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland
You're presuming consumers see 'cheaper' and always go for that, when if history is any indicator the opposite is true. Apple makes premium products and this fits perfectly in line with that.
I call BS on this statement. If you research the numbers, the iPod Mini went on to out sell the "then" Standard iPod and when the first Nano came out, it became the best selling iPod in the history of the device...not until the iPod Touch did the Nano loose market share of portable media players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vqro
I think they needed to price it at $299. If they were to sell 10 Million of these, they're down $300 Million but they knock the competition out of the water and lock 10 million consumers into the ecosystem. These 10 million are nearly guaranteed to buy the next iteration. Short term loss for a lock of the market. They should have done it.
Given what I've read about sales on the iPad "line" The 32GB was the best selling model. It is true that lowering the selling price to that magical $x99.00 price is more enticing to the customer though. However. Look at the numbers and you'll see why it probably won't make a difference here.
32GB wifi iPad Mini = $429.00.
If they sell 10M devices in this Quarter, that = $4.29B
At this gross sales, they would have to sell 14.35M iPad Mini's at $299.00
The question is, does Apple have the manufacturing ability to produce that many more just to equal those numbers or better?
My guess is probably not, due to supply constraints. We already heard rumbling about supply constraints on the display end...so it's quite logical to think the $329 starting price is based on supply, not demand. They can only build so many, so quickly.
Why not take a trip to Chengdu and crack the whip a little harder if you want to see a $299 price point? The Foxcon Employee's are already (quite literally) killing themselves to make as many iPads as they can under the current supply and labor conditions. Not to mention that it's been widely reported that the "bargin basement" iPad has never sold as well as the Middle of the road models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan
Agreed this should have been $299 if Apple really wanted to deliver a knockout punch to imitation Android market. Probably the most amazing part of the original iPad's introduction was the price! Everybody.. and I mean Everybody expected it to cost around $700-800. When Steve said $499 people's jaws literally dropped. You could pretty much say the opposite happened with the mini announcement, as the price was higher than most people expected. Especially considering its using the guts of a 2 year old iPad2.
While I have no doubt Apple will sell every one they can make this holiday season at the advertised $329 price, I dont understand why they continue to let Android's "me-too" products hang around. They have a $100Billion in the bank, its not like they NEED the extra $30 in profit off each mini sale. I strongly believe most people want an iPad, when they look at whats available in tablet selection.. but many just cant afford the steeper price. Pricing the mini at $299 instead of $329, would have a psychological reinforcement on the people's desire to want an iPad.. and accept nothing else.
I also think the $299 mini price was important because its so low it could become the "gateway drug" into Apple's products. For the longest time I was on the other side of the fence.. one of those people who believed Apple's products were overhyped, overpriced and delivered less performance than the competition. My gateway experience was the $229 iPod nano. After buying several mp3 players in 2004 & 2005.. from makers like Creative Labs, iRiver, flash memory makers.. and being a bit disappointed in them. I finally gave the $229 Nano a try, mainly because it was cheap enough that I was willing to give it a try. The Nano worked so much better than every other mp3 player I had used, that I couldnt believe I waited so long to buy a real iPod. And it wasnt just me, my girlfriend used it.. weeks later she bought one. Same happened with my best friend. The point is, the price needs to be low enough that people will give the "Apple experience" a try. Once they've taken a bite, they understand why Apple products cost more.. because the entire experience delivers more. From the packaging, to the Apple store, to the user experience, to the software, to the appstore, to the build quality to even the resale value. You just dont get the same expereience with the "me too" imitation stuff.
That $229 Nano I bought in '05, led me to buy the $199 iPhoneGS3 in June '09. Which lead me to buy the $999 Macbook in 2010. Which lead me to buy the $179 Extreme router, $99 ATV and $499 iPad in 2011. Before I knew it.. the $229 Nano had turned my house into $3000 worth of Apple electronics over a period of 5 years. Im sure there are many people out there who share the same Apple story I do.
I share your story as well.
It started with the original iPod Shuffle.
2006 was a refurb iPod Mini.
2009, the iPod Classic, iPhone 3G
2010, Apple TV Gen 2
2011, iPad 2, iPhone 4
Late 2012 and 2013, iPad Mini for my better half, Macbook, iPhone Gen (2013), iPad Gen 5 (only if it's lighter)
See my last post above for the reply to the rest of your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
Apple should have pitched this differently. They should have pitched this as a smaller form factor iPad that has all the capabilities of its big brother but with a thinner and lighter design and more affordable price. By bringing up the Nexus in the keynote they inevitably brought in the comparisons to cheaper tablets. And of course then the biggest focus will be on price.
You obviously didn't pay much attention to the keynote. If you paid attention, you'd get that point-by-point the focus was in comparison to the iPad 2 but better. The Nexus example was about 2 minutes of a 20 minute presentation of the device.
I think the price is just right! I will have to buy one!
Quote:
“A lot of times, people don’t know what they want until you show it to them.” - Steve Jobs
Originally Posted by xocolatl
I don't buy the premium product angle anymore. I own an iPhone 4 (which is great) and a 2010 iMac that is having software update/hard drive issues (need to get it replaced), a brand new Air (2012) which had the volume and brightness buttons go out as soon as i updated to mountain lion. I think the quality control is on the decline compared to my white 2008 macbook and the iPad mini is not worth 329 plus tax. I would have been comfortable with 249 and MAYBE 279 but 329 us just greedy and there is no excuse for greed. I ordered my kindle fire right after the price was announced. I am not a heavy tablet user but I am not paying $350 tax included for a small tablet.
You just do not get it. Literally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
Can't wait to hold one of these and see how light it is.
If you want to get a feel for it, size-wise it is pretty close to a blu-ray case.