Apple slims down iMac 40% with 'friction-stir welding' & ditching the disc drive

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  • Reply 61 of 194



    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

    The 27s are not even in production yet, since they won't be available until December.



     


    Which you know, because you work at Apple.

  • Reply 62 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Shameer Mulji View Post


    This is a consumer machine?  I don't know many consumers in this day & age that have a minimum $1,299 to just drop on a computer.  This looks targeted more at the prosumer market than anything.



     


    Fortunately, Apple has better grasp of what consumers are willing to pay for a desktop computer...


     


     


  • Reply 63 of 194
    Worst iMac update ever.
    Yes, the Ivy Bridge processor is certainly better. (Though, fact that Intel uses lower effeciency chip-to-heatsink technology may be a future disaster for the hot running iMacs.)

    Removing user upgradable RAM from the 21-inch model. Bad move.

    Making the HD drives to be 5400 RPM, where the previous model had 7200 RPM - bad move.
    It seems that they have switched to 2.5-inch laptop form factor HD drives (I am guessing).
    A change that no Mac article has even had the guts to mention so far.
    Seems most of the media articles are stumbling over each other in their rush to be able to drink the Apple kool-aid and "ooh" and "ahh" at it.

    Removing the CD/DVD drive. Bad move, in my opinion, since I, and the folks I know with iMacs still use their CDs and DVDs to play or import music and video.
    Now these users either give that media up or go out and buy a third party portable CD/DVD player writer. Thereby cluttering up the desk even more. There goes the questionable Apple goal to have a clean look. Clean maybe, but impractical.
    FYI, I have confirmed that, at least in my use, a generic PC Samsung CD/DVD USB writer can be used to install software on the MacBook Air, and presumably any disc-less Mac.

    Removing FireWire. Bad move.
    Apple was a primary developer in the FireWire protocol. And being bus-managed, was inherently faster and lighter on the computer than USB 2, as all the data transfers did not have to go through the CPU. So now they dump FireWire and go all USB (v3) only.
    Now that they sucked (or is that suckered) us into buying our external HDs (and cameras) with FireWire data ports, we have no way to use them any more. Unless they were Combo devices, in which case we will be saddles with the poorer performing USB 2 cable and data transfer.

    Yes, if you are an Apple Fan (TM), you will love the new iMac, since everything Apple does is by definition 'good.'
    But if you are someone who has invested money in various FireWire hardware over the years, it's just Apple's way of laughing at you for sending them your money, and now will have to spend more.
    The company is becoming, in my opinion, more arrogant and disrespectful of their existing customer base.

    New advertising slogan: "Thinner. Lighter. Shinier. Because those are always better. And does less with the stuff you have. Obsoletes your existing hardware. And makes it safer because it's darn near impossible to do user-upgrades. You'll love buying all new stuff from us at time of order!"
  • Reply 64 of 194


    Originally Posted by Bruce Young View Post

    Removing the CD/DVD drive. Bad move, in my opinion…


     


    Yours and ten others. No one else cares. Buy a $25 external drive.


     



    Removing FireWire. Bad move.

    Apple was a primary developer in the FireWire protocol. And being bus-managed, was inherently faster and lighter on the computer than USB 2, as all the data transfers did not have to go through the CPU. So now they dump FireWire and go all USB (v3) only.


     


    IF ONLY APPLE HAD A NEWER, FASTER PORT THAT COULD NOT ONLY REPLACE FIREWIRE IN ALL INSTANCES, BUT ALL OTHER PORTS ON THE MARKET AS WELL.


     



    But if you are someone who has invested money in various FireWire hardware over the years, it's just Apple's way of laughing at you for sending them your money, and now will have to spend more.


     


    It's a good thing the Internet wasn't as prevalent as it was back when they dropped SCSI. You would have cried for DAYS, I imagine.


     


    Tech changes, get over it.

  • Reply 65 of 194


    In my previous work the company ordered branded (with company logo) USB sticks. $6-8 each - 2gigs I think. Our time was billed out at $100+ an hour. It saved money to use the usb sticks than the time it took to burn a cd, many times the stick would be reused. It was win win. Many people in the company continued to us CDs because that is what the were use to. It is not logical. The majority of people do not need optical media. The drive has to be removed to prove that it is true.


     


    I think money is the real reason apple is making thiner and lighter devices. If you take 8lbs (that is what I remember the weight difference as) times a million that is 8 million lbs - I don't really know what that becomes in savings for shipping but I think it will be a large number. You can't change what apple is doing so you might as well understand the logic in why they are doing things and choose to invest in their products and company or not. No point in bitching. Firewire is used a lot but not if you look at percentages. I am already buying special cables or adapters to change from firewire 400 to 800 - no diference here - you need a special cable or dongle to convert 800 to thunderbolt. You can also use those ports for external monitors.


     


    There are solutions to all the problems mentioned here (except the ram in the 21" model and I am sure there will be a solution to that to) using external devices that are relatively cheap. If you think they will make your beautiful machine ugly you have the choice to use a much uglier option - a PC with windows - LOL - I even made myself laugh.

  • Reply 66 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bruce Young View Post



    Worst iMac update ever...


     


    I agree with Bruce. Those of you excoriating users who want / need DVD burners, etc, need to step away from your myopic perspective. Anyone working in commercial graphics / video production receives hundreds of DVDs with source material. You possibly heard of "graphic design"? The original market that saved Apple from itself?


     


    There is a place for permanent non-modifiable data storage. It's call an archive. Keychains USBs and external drives are indeed available for data transfer, but those are modifiable, non-permanent and can transmit trojans and viruses (see STUXNET). If nothing else, once burned, viruses cannot infect or destroy DVD data - not so with USB keychains, external HDs, networked storage. Finally, the "pre-post-PC world" still uses DVDs and even CDs from time to time, afaiac, viva la difference and the more options, the better.


     


    To those whining "Adobe is a dinosaur... MS is a dinosaur" - get real. If Adobe pulled their software from Mac OS X, goodbye 20% of current marketshare. MS, same. So you don't use Photoshop or Word - lucky you. In the real world, these are the apps that get work done in corporations and justify purchase of more expensive iStuff. They're called "standards" - have you heard of them?


     


    Lack of simple serviceability is a real value issue. If GM suddenly said "only our authorized service nerds can open the hood of your car" what would happen to GM sales?


     


    "Normal people don't work on their computers" - ok fine, but when I can buy DIMMs, SSDs, 7200RPM HDs, etc etc etc from 3rd parties for a fraction of Apple pre-installed prices, with better performance, why shouldn't I? Oh, because in the name of "engineering" Apple has decided to lock down hardware that you paid for and own.


     


    Finally, I only post to Apple Insider very infrequently because the cloying fanboyism here negates any possibility of serious intelligent dialog. You know, dialog, where one party says something, and another respectfully agrees or disagrees while offering logical arguments for or against.


     


    Most of you think your way is the only way. It is infinitely annoying when you folks judge how people use their machines with comments like "why aren't you using BluRay", "normal people don't service their own stuff", "digital distribution is the post-pc future", "Microsoft is a dinosaur", "Adobe - what do you expect" (or generalizations to that effect) when your sense of legacy and history doesn't extend beyond the smartphone era.


     


    When Apple was the underdog, Apple users always were courteous to each other, if not Windows users. I don't recognize this level of "discourse" here in AI forums, precisely because it isn't discourse - it's high school grade fanboyism at its worst.


     


    Note that there were no character attacks in my post. I've been doing IT since it was called DP.  (Amazing the similarities between IBM System/370 & 327x, and web servers/browsers - but - what would most of you know about that?)


     


    Those that don't remember the past think they've discovered something new, when in fact, there's nothing new under the sun.. 


     


    But, I'm a dinosaur, WTF do I know, right? I've used Macs longer than most of you have been alive. So, flame on. Send back the rover, no apparent intelligence here...

  • Reply 67 of 194


    All of my computers have needed a repair at one point. Parts wear out on machines that are kept more than five years. I upgrade when things break or when software must be updated with a machine that can handle it. Which means I don't upgrade often. Apple and Adobe are annoying me because Flash isn't being updated for my Leopard machine. Safari isn't being updated for Leopard. One thing that really bugs me is iTunes is still being updated for Windows XP but not for older versions of OS X. We gave Apple our money for our computers. XP owners didn't give Apple diddly squat yet they continue to get updated versions of iTunes.


     


    Will the lack of updates get me to buy another Apple computer sooner than later? Maybe. The thing is I probably will buy a tablet instead of a computer. I've got another computer that can do the same work I do on my Mac Book.


     


    If I buy a tablet I don't really expect user upgradeable parts or to do repairs on it. A desktop computer traditionally is different. I can change the RAM and hard drive easily on my Mac Book from 2008. My HP desktop is designed so I can open the side of it and add or change many things very easily. I like that. I'm curious about how these new iMacs will be opened. When I read the word welding I don't expect things to come apart easily.


     


    This thinner is better mantra from the Apple corporation is just crazy.

     

  • Reply 68 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post


    Go buy Microsoft Office or Adobe Creative Suite and let us know what format it uses inside the box (DVD).  Internal slot load drives are $59 from OWC.  Get your facts right.  I am not talking about regular backups.  I don't need to backup my downloaded installers over and over again with Time Machine.  I can back those up once to DVD and keep them off the hard drive, and off my Time Machine backups.



     


     


    I dont know about Adobe, but my last two versions of Office, 2007 and 2010 were both downloaded

  • Reply 69 of 194


    Originally Posted by vaporland View Post


    When Apple was the underdog, Apple users always were courteous to each other, if not Windows users.



     


    See, you're making the assumption that all the people on here have actual, valid complaints and aren't just astroturfing. 

  • Reply 70 of 194

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post


    One thing that really bugs me is iTunes is still being updated for Windows XP but not for older versions of OS X. We gave Apple our money for our computers. XP owners didn't give Apple diddly squat yet they continue to get updated versions of iTunes.

     



     


    that probably says more about the compatability across microsoft products, rather than apple updating specifically for XP


     


    Most windows software will run across XP, vista, 7 and 8 (x86)

  • Reply 71 of 194


    "Apple slims down iMac 40% with 'friction-stir welding' & ditching the disc drive"


     


    Seems like a misleading headline to me. They ditched the optical drive, not "the disc drive."


     


    And yes, I'd prefer that they kept the superdrive.

  • Reply 72 of 194
    doh123doh123 Posts: 323member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    Har de har har.  


     


    The new iMac actually has *zero* firewire ports (800 or 400).  I'm kind of amazed (well not really considering the author) that the article goes on and on about all the shiny-glowy nice bits but doesn't mention this very relevant fact.  


     


    There are probably 5 or 6 hundred iMacs within a short walk from my office and all of them use/need firewire ports either for video editing or some kind of backup.  They are generally replaced hundreds at a time on a bi-yearly basis.  Not having Firewire is indeed going to be a problem.  


     


    I understand that Apple is likely doing this to push the drive makers to step up to the Thunderbolt plate and produce some good cheap backup drives that use the interface (which is a very good thing), however ... there aren't going to be a heck of a lot of Thunderbolt enabled video cameras any time soon so there will be buckets and buckets of adapters that need to be bought.  



    Why do you need a Firewire port?  You do realize that all your firewire devices will still run if you really want to use them, you can get an adapter and run them on thunderbolt.


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by vaporland View Post


    There is a place for permanent non-modifiable data storage. It's call an archive. Keychains USBs and external drives are indeed available for data transfer, but those are modifiable, non-permanent and can transmit trojans and viruses (see STUXNET). If nothing else, once burned, viruses cannot infect or destroy DVD data - not so with USB keychains, external HDs, networked storage. Finally, the "pre-post-PC world" still uses DVDs and even CDs from time to time, afaiac, viva la difference and the more options, the better.



    YOu need to learn a thing or two about home "burned" CD and DVDs... they aren't as permanent as you think.  The tech big industries used to make discs that are sold with software or movies and music and such are NOT the same tech your home burner uses... and you can very well lose your data over time.

  • Reply 73 of 194


    I planned on skipping this release and getting the Haswell iMac, when I bought my refurb 3.4GHz in February 2012. Having said that, I'm not really fussed about the loss of optical drive, I only use it very occasionally and there is the peace of mind knowing that if the external optical goes down (which has happened on my previous two macs) it won't be a problem.


     


    GTX680MX  from what I've gathered so far seems pretty good, so the next one is bound to be awesome. The 6970M currently runs x-plane well enough though.


     


    Regarding the thinness factor, yeah it does look nice but the current one inch thick look also looks nice and truth be told, it's pretty much a non issue, everyone who has seen my 27" already can't believe it's actually a computer and not just a monitor. 


     


    However I'm a bit concerned about the heat factor, the only reason I can see for putting in a 5400 drive in the 21" would be because a faster drive would be too hot. This worries me. I'll feel better upgrading at Haswell, by then any problems with this new design will have been sorted.

  • Reply 74 of 194
    elrothelroth Posts: 1,201member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sflocal View Post




    Way to go to make your point by hurling insults.  Pretty much invalidates anything you said.



    This is the reality.  Most folks don't use CD's, and most folks don't service their own computers.  That's the hard truth reality.  It's what I see everywhere and I'm in IT.  No one wants to deal with it.  They send their PC's to someone that knows what they are doing.  Most people will never open their computers to upgrade memory, hardware, etc.  It IS what is going on.



    You may not like it but you really do not represent the Joe Consumer.  You make it sound like Apple is insulting you by not tailoring their products to the 1% of people that do what you do.  I service my own machines and I've opened up my 2009 iMac just because I wanted to.  Sure it's not as simple like a regular PC but if you're as technically-inclined as you imply your self to be, what's an extra 5-10 minutes to open an iMac case?  If you do it for a business, you just past that extra labor time to your customer.



    What Solips said is true.  I'm not EVEN going to waste my time to google for you the direction that PC-tech is going.  CD-tech is dead.  A cheap USB stick holds a heck of a lot more than a CD does.  If grandma who is still set in her ways wants to see the family kids on a CD for her 1990's computer, either tell her to go to Facebook, or buy a $40 burner (or $79 superdrive) for those 1-2 times a year you'll need it and be done with it.



    Technology is not going to be put on hold because you have to have an aging, mechanical device in your computer.  Sorry to be the one to have to tell you that.



    There is still more music sold on CDs than digitally, especially if you count the huge market for used CDs (which the record companies never do). It always gets me when people who don't use CDs try to tell the rest of us that nobody uses CDs anymore. Well, many people still do - and there are also still more DVDs sold than movies downloaded. Many more. Many many more.


     


    The only way to get uncompressed music (legally) is to buy CDs. There will always be a market for that, even if one of these years they actually sell more digital music online than on CDs (new and used combined).


     


    And that's just the commercial media. Home made DVDs may be a smaller market, but many people would rather have their wedding video on DVD than in the cloud somewhere. I make instructional DVDs, and many many people still want DVDs for a lot of things.

  • Reply 75 of 194
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    elroth wrote: »
    There is still more music sold on CDs than digitally, especially if you count the huge market for used CDs (which the record companies never do). It always gets me when people who don't use CDs try to tell the rest of us that nobody uses CDs anymore. Well, many people still do - and there are also still more DVDs sold than movies downloaded. Many more. Many many more.

    The only way to get uncompressed music (legally) is to buy CDs. There will always be a market for that, even if one of these years they actually sell more digital music online than on CDs (new and used combined).

    And that's just the commercial media. Home made DVDs may be a smaller market, but many people would rather have their wedding video on DVD than in the cloud somewhere. I make instructional DVDs, and many many people still want DVDs for a lot of things.

    1) Those aren't Apple's main constituents just as the US market sees the iPhone dominating across all carriers that sell the device yet Android activations worldwide trounce iPhone sales.

    2) Sure, AIFF files aren't compressed but you're not looking at the source data that gets written to the CDs. You're conflating the packaging. I could take a 64 bit rate audio book and re-encode it as Apple Lossless and truthfully claim that it's not lossy, but that doesn't make it sound better or tell the whole story.
  • Reply 76 of 194


    um, you do realise Apple sells a Thunderbolt Fire Wire Adapter http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD464ZM/A, nuff said. Thunderbolt is much faster than FW. and the main utility of FW peripherals (Hard drives and video cameras) is transitioning to thunderbolt. FW 800 -- mbps, thunderbolt 10 gbps no comparison.

  • Reply 77 of 194
    To my knowledge, you don't "take a lot of flack", but "a lot of flak". FLAK is the abreviation of FLugAbwehrKanone - (ground to air defense in WWII).
  • Reply 78 of 194


    Wow, I feel very old, but all this already happen before!


    Remember when the first iMac ditched the floppy drive and so many complained at that time?


    Now, it's the same story, but with the DVD. I bet most of you who complains cannot remember using a floppy.


    And by the way, the new iMac avec an SDXC card reader: faster, bigger storage and is way more practical than a DVD.


    And backup-up with DVD...seriously?


     


    The last time I used the disc drive at home is when I reinstalled windows 7. Otherwise, it's completely useless.


    And if you cannot live without it, buy one for less than 100$.


     


    Seriously, stop complaining!

  • Reply 79 of 194
    Hi all!

    I'm sure that most proff. users will agree that thickness does not matters on a desk top machine, but PERFORMANCE does. You don't carry around a desktopmachine, nor will you sit and write a message to yor mother while its sitting on yor lap.
    So Apple, thin and light are good for iDevices, phones and laptops which are fantastic products we all love, but please supply us with a desktop computer we can access, perform upgrades and perform small service on. Furhermore give us a truly HD display so I dont have to check my pro-SLR photos on my iPad, thank You

    best regards from Denmark
  • Reply 80 of 194
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member


    I'm not in the market for a new desktop at the moment, but hot damn, that is one sexy machine, and I'd snap one up right away, if I were.


     


    It is the sexiest and most powerful iMac ever, and it will be extremely popular. Let's just say that it'll safely remain the #1 desktop machine in the US. Apple has nothing to worry about there.image


     


    And to anybody whining about the lack of an optical drive, wake up people, it's not 1999 anymore. Apple should have dropped it years ago. If you are one of the 53 people on planet earth who still uses an optical drive, then just go and buy an external drive. I hear that they're rather affordable. Don't be selfish and demand that Apple include an obsolete feature that the vast majority of users do not wish for, do not need, and will not use.

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