That is fair. But Office does not necessarily need to be tied to Windows RT, my prediction is that after the Surface crashes and burns in the marketplace, MS will release Office for the iPad, and probably sell 20 million copies, and actually make a good profit at it. They should have just done this in the first place.
Agreed. Microsoft under Ballmer continues to make all the wrong moves.
Nobody here has likely seen, let alone touched, a Surface, but reviewers uniformly heaped high praise on the hardware, and the major software issues all appear resolvable. Looks like it just needs a few key apps, like the ones mentioned by reviewers, and Surface will be a great device for business customers. Go ahead and slam it for now. MS has resources.
I'm quite liking Windows 8 on the desktop now which is amazing to me. I thought it was impossible. I hated all the release previews more than I've ever hated any version of Windows before it (well, maybe with the exception of Windows ME). But I've been steadily using the RTM build more and more, with a copy of Paul Thurrott's Windows 8 Secrets book close at hand, and now I'm learning how to use Windows 8 properly. Most worrying I'm starting to enjoy the experience.
Of course Windows 8 is best design for touch devices so if I'm enjoying it on a desktop computer with traditional input methods, I think this can be quite strong competition for Apple moving forward in the future. They just need time to get developers building great applications for their platform. For some steady growth and adoption to attract them to the platform in the first place. And keeping Office away from iOS and as an exclusive for mobile Windows devices would also be a smart play at this point.
I definitely don't see corporations adopting Windows 8 at all on workstations. Employees are never going to want to learn all these new tricks to get the job done, and companies aren't going to be able to waste all that time and money training them. But on mobile devices absolutely if it talks to their key business applications Microsoft and its partners can sell a lot of Windows 8 devices.
Nobody here has likely seen, let alone touched, a Surface, but reviewers uniformly heaped high praise on the hardware, and the major software issues all appear resolvable. Looks like it just needs a few key apps, like the ones mentioned by reviewers, and Surface will be a great device for business customers. Go ahead and slam it for now. MS has resources.
It is mildly interesting how extreme Apple supporters quickly jump into denial/damage control mode, isn't it?
Every review I have seen is pretty impressed on hardware side, but conclusion here is "disappointing in every aspect". Sad.
5000 - 7000 apps on launch is likely the best any tablet had so far. True, iPad could run iPhone apps, but that was plain ugly, horrible experience.
MS Office. For number of people I know that alone will be worth the price.
Microsoft's biggest hurdle to overcome with Surface is software, as only about 10,000 third-party applications will be available at launch, and just 5,000 of those will be in the U.S. Apple announced this week that it has more than 270,000 applications designed specifically for the iPad, while more than 700,000 total iOS applications can run on the iPad.
That's such a pointless spec. 700,000 apps, of which almost 1,000 are flashlights, 50-100,000 are games with all the sophistication and complexity of Tic Tac Toe, and another quarter million are ad-laden "utilities" that exactly mirror functions already available in Settings. Big whoop.
Is it not finally time to evaluate app libraries on the QUALITY of the offerings rather than just sheer volume? I'll take a handful of USEFUL apps over mountains of crap any day. Maybe those 10K for the Surface actually do something useful, unlike at least 75% of the pure garbage on the iOS App Store.
EDIT: Upon further reading I see that most of the RT apps are crap too, so never mind.
Low numbers means lots of rush jobs, so quality is not great:
Pogue:
The total in the United States is about 3,500 apps so far; many are bare-bones or junky.
Verge:
The fact that the strongest and most useful (and notably, most responsive) applications are relegated to the old environment gives me pause. Add to that the fact that many of the new apps seem incomplete or buggy — and you've got a problem.
The native email application, for instance, could be slow to update and unresponsive to touch on a regular basis. Other apps, both first and third-party, could be slow to open, then stall or crash altogether. Some 3D games, such as Rocket Riot, seemed fluid and natural, while others staggered along, seemingly struggling to pump out an acceptable frame rate.
Some well known apps, such as Cut The Rope, felt sluggish on the Surface (a problem I came across with a number of games). The Twitter app MetroTwit strangely stopped issuing notifications after I had left the app for a short period of time (though I did have better luck with Tweetro). The Amazon Kindle application had an extremely annoying bug which showed a jarring flash of a book graphic every time I turned a page, and would sometimes have to load for absurd amounts of time between page turns. Nearly every app I tried crashed completely at least once while I was testing the tablet, third and first-party.
This reminds me of the HP TouchPad software situation.
You all realize that these "first blush" reviews are as good as it gets?? Once people start learning more about the hardware, the OS and the Office app, all the warts will start to appear... it's gonna get ugly!
I'll take a handful of USEFUL apps over mountains of crap any day. Maybe those 10K for the Surface actually do something useful, unlike at least 75% of the pure garbage on the iOS App Store.
Is it not finally time to evaluate app libraries on the QUALITY of the offerings rather than just sheer volume? I'll take a handful of USEFUL apps over mountains of crap any day. Maybe those 10K for the Surface actually do something useful, unlike at least 75% of the pure garbage on the iOS App Store.
Actually not only is there few apps, the also appear to be of low quality. What makes you think they would be higher quality if they are just getting rolling?
Quote:
Pogue:
The total in the United States is about 3,500 apps so far; many are bare-bones or junky.
Verge:
The fact that the strongest and most useful (and notably, most responsive) applications are relegated to the old environment gives me pause. Add to that the fact that many of the new apps seem incomplete or buggy — and you've got a problem.
Actually not only is there few apps, the also appear to be of low quality. What makes you think they would be higher quality if they are just getting rolling?
I naively hoped that in the early stages we would see only product from serious developers who had been involved in testing the OS, rather than the flood of bottom feeders who churn out title after title of pointless flotsam to generate ad hits.
Turns out we may not be seeing much of the latter, but the former aren't exactly leading with their best work.
Just to start with--Rabbit_Coach: Whoever "corrected" you to "free reign" was wrong. It's "free rein", as in horse's rein. Instead of pulling on the reins to tell the horse where to go, you give them enough slack--free rein--that they can go wherever they want.
Main point: Let me get this straight--to get a Surface with 64 GB and the semi-usable keyboard you have to pay $830? Who's going to buy that when a 64 GB MacBook Air is $999, with a real keyboard and a real OS...and Hell, you can install Windows and run your precious MS Office.
You could also buy some of the feeble PC clones ("Ultrabooks--LOL") of the Air at about the same price, since Intel gives them the CPUs for half price.
Laugh all you want but you got to appriciate the fact they are not just copying Apple literally! The keyboard is a great idea and the reviewers really seem to like it. The I/O ports are wonderful and yes very un-Apple like. Microsoft is just starting to build their own product line and identity here. The original iPhone was very limited in software and hardware too. it takes time. Execution aside, let's welcome the effort in making a unique experience here, both hardware and software wise. I like it *because* its not what I am looking for (but thousands of others will love). It's not shitty iOS clone stuff.
I'm an Apple user, pretty much owning all iHardware, but to me Apple lately has become kinda predictable, kinda boring. What they do is very well executed but also very predictable and safe. Another commercial of high ups telling how 'thin and amazing' their new iStuff is, followed by extreme close ups of aluminum edges of whatever the hell they are trying to sell us now. Don't get me wrong - I'm in that queue to buy that stuff as its just very good, but let's welcome the competition and appriciate where Microsoft thinks different. Can you remember the times where Apple was advocating just that?
I wonder what it would be like to go to a web site's forum and find posts (positive or negative) that are based on actual use of a product vs. blind fanboyism?
People please it's "free reign" and lose not loose.
No! It is 'free rein' as in the reins of a horse, letting the horse run, not the reign of kings. You are correct with 'lose' and 'loose' however, although there's only about three people left in the world who seem to know it. There's no place in the English language for 'off of' either, but try telling the internet that.
Regarding the Surface: seven hours battery life for the ARM version suggests that it's going to be pretty horrible on the Atom version.
So the ARM version has USB ports and it can presumably let you install printers and other peripherals to it directly... but who is making these ARM versions of these peripheral drivers for Windows RT?
What part of the hardware shines, exactly? It's fugly to me, and bloated with windows. Pass.
At least I know my 32 GB iPad has iOS that takes up what, 1 GB? How much does windows take up on the Surface thing?
I think Dick Applebaum posted it about a week or two ago. I think it came at about 12GB which is why they have to start with 32GB for the base model.
According to Anandtech:
Update: Many have asked about how much storage is taken up by the Windows + Office 2013 installs. The screenshot below shows the directory size for both C:\Windows and C:\Program Files, the latter is where the Office15 install files are included (and yes winword.exe is still the Word executable).
You're looking at roughly 6.47GB for Windows RT and then another 830MB for Office for a grand total of around 7.3GB.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacCentric
That is fair. But Office does not necessarily need to be tied to Windows RT, my prediction is that after the Surface crashes and burns in the marketplace, MS will release Office for the iPad, and probably sell 20 million copies, and actually make a good profit at it. They should have just done this in the first place.
Agreed. Microsoft under Ballmer continues to make all the wrong moves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro
Nobody here has likely seen, let alone touched, a Surface, but reviewers uniformly heaped high praise on the hardware, and the major software issues all appear resolvable. Looks like it just needs a few key apps, like the ones mentioned by reviewers, and Surface will be a great device for business customers. Go ahead and slam it for now. MS has resources.
I'm quite liking Windows 8 on the desktop now which is amazing to me. I thought it was impossible. I hated all the release previews more than I've ever hated any version of Windows before it (well, maybe with the exception of Windows ME). But I've been steadily using the RTM build more and more, with a copy of Paul Thurrott's Windows 8 Secrets book close at hand, and now I'm learning how to use Windows 8 properly. Most worrying I'm starting to enjoy the experience.
Of course Windows 8 is best design for touch devices so if I'm enjoying it on a desktop computer with traditional input methods, I think this can be quite strong competition for Apple moving forward in the future. They just need time to get developers building great applications for their platform. For some steady growth and adoption to attract them to the platform in the first place. And keeping Office away from iOS and as an exclusive for mobile Windows devices would also be a smart play at this point.
I definitely don't see corporations adopting Windows 8 at all on workstations. Employees are never going to want to learn all these new tricks to get the job done, and companies aren't going to be able to waste all that time and money training them. But on mobile devices absolutely if it talks to their key business applications Microsoft and its partners can sell a lot of Windows 8 devices.
It is mildly interesting how extreme Apple supporters quickly jump into denial/damage control mode, isn't it?
Every review I have seen is pretty impressed on hardware side, but conclusion here is "disappointing in every aspect". Sad.
5000 - 7000 apps on launch is likely the best any tablet had so far. True, iPad could run iPhone apps, but that was plain ugly, horrible experience.
MS Office. For number of people I know that alone will be worth the price.
Don't like cover and kickstand? No problem. There will be more RT tablets around, enough for everyone to satisfy form factor desires. Like this one: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6387/asus-vivotab-rt-review
It is also worth reading complete Anandtech review of Surface RT, rather than digging for single sentences, often out of content: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugsnw
__________
Their best idea might be that kickstand. Though it should be adjustable and work in either orientation. Maybe Apple can innovate in this area.....
Talk about damning Microsoft with faint praise...
Trust me, you will never see the iProp™.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Microsoft's biggest hurdle to overcome with Surface is software, as only about 10,000 third-party applications will be available at launch, and just 5,000 of those will be in the U.S. Apple announced this week that it has more than 270,000 applications designed specifically for the iPad, while more than 700,000 total iOS applications can run on the iPad.
That's such a pointless spec. 700,000 apps, of which almost 1,000 are flashlights, 50-100,000 are games with all the sophistication and complexity of Tic Tac Toe, and another quarter million are ad-laden "utilities" that exactly mirror functions already available in Settings. Big whoop.
Is it not finally time to evaluate app libraries on the QUALITY of the offerings rather than just sheer volume? I'll take a handful of USEFUL apps over mountains of crap any day. Maybe those 10K for the Surface actually do something useful, unlike at least 75% of the pure garbage on the iOS App Store.
EDIT: Upon further reading I see that most of the RT apps are crap too, so never mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65
Low numbers means lots of rush jobs, so quality is not great:
Pogue:
The total in the United States is about 3,500 apps so far; many are bare-bones or junky.
Verge:
The fact that the strongest and most useful (and notably, most responsive) applications are relegated to the old environment gives me pause. Add to that the fact that many of the new apps seem incomplete or buggy — and you've got a problem.
The native email application, for instance, could be slow to update and unresponsive to touch on a regular basis. Other apps, both first and third-party, could be slow to open, then stall or crash altogether. Some 3D games, such as Rocket Riot, seemed fluid and natural, while others staggered along, seemingly struggling to pump out an acceptable frame rate.
Some well known apps, such as Cut The Rope, felt sluggish on the Surface (a problem I came across with a number of games). The Twitter app MetroTwit strangely stopped issuing notifications after I had left the app for a short period of time (though I did have better luck with Tweetro). The Amazon Kindle application had an extremely annoying bug which showed a jarring flash of a book graphic every time I turned a page, and would sometimes have to load for absurd amounts of time between page turns. Nearly every app I tried crashed completely at least once while I was testing the tablet, third and first-party.
This reminds me of the HP TouchPad software situation.
You all realize that these "first blush" reviews are as good as it gets?? Once people start learning more about the hardware, the OS and the Office app, all the warts will start to appear... it's gonna get ugly!
Originally Posted by v5v
I'll take a handful of USEFUL apps over mountains of crap any day. Maybe those 10K for the Surface actually do something useful, unlike at least 75% of the pure garbage on the iOS App Store.
Still 175,000 useful apps compared to 10,000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v
Is it not finally time to evaluate app libraries on the QUALITY of the offerings rather than just sheer volume? I'll take a handful of USEFUL apps over mountains of crap any day. Maybe those 10K for the Surface actually do something useful, unlike at least 75% of the pure garbage on the iOS App Store.
Actually not only is there few apps, the also appear to be of low quality. What makes you think they would be higher quality if they are just getting rolling?
Quote:
Pogue:
The total in the United States is about 3,500 apps so far; many are bare-bones or junky.
Verge:
The fact that the strongest and most useful (and notably, most responsive) applications are relegated to the old environment gives me pause. Add to that the fact that many of the new apps seem incomplete or buggy — and you've got a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65
Actually not only is there few apps, the also appear to be of low quality. What makes you think they would be higher quality if they are just getting rolling?
I naively hoped that in the early stages we would see only product from serious developers who had been involved in testing the OS, rather than the flood of bottom feeders who churn out title after title of pointless flotsam to generate ad hits.
Turns out we may not be seeing much of the latter, but the former aren't exactly leading with their best work.
Just to start with--Rabbit_Coach: Whoever "corrected" you to "free reign" was wrong. It's "free rein", as in horse's rein. Instead of pulling on the reins to tell the horse where to go, you give them enough slack--free rein--that they can go wherever they want.
Main point: Let me get this straight--to get a Surface with 64 GB and the semi-usable keyboard you have to pay $830? Who's going to buy that when a 64 GB MacBook Air is $999, with a real keyboard and a real OS...and Hell, you can install Windows and run your precious MS Office.
You could also buy some of the feeble PC clones ("Ultrabooks--LOL") of the Air at about the same price, since Intel gives them the CPUs for half price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoolook
They're certainly not biased and aren't just chasing clicks (like Gizmodo ot The Verge).....
Really? New York Times (Pogue) and Wall Street Journal (Mossberg) are chasing clicks, compared to, say, some tech blogs?
They're for grown-ups. Perhaps that's the reason you don't get it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133
5000 - 7000 apps on launch is likely the best any tablet had so far.
Hey, 2010 -- a lifetime ago in this business -- just called.
Execution aside, let's welcome the effort in making a unique experience here, both hardware and software wise. I like it *because* its not what I am looking for (but thousands of others will love). It's not shitty iOS clone stuff.
I'm an Apple user, pretty much owning all iHardware, but to me Apple lately has become kinda predictable, kinda boring. What they do is very well executed but also very predictable and safe. Another commercial of high ups telling how 'thin and amazing' their new iStuff is, followed by extreme close ups of aluminum edges of whatever the hell they are trying to sell us now. Don't get me wrong - I'm in that queue to buy that stuff as its just very good, but let's welcome the competition and appriciate where Microsoft thinks different. Can you remember the times where Apple was advocating just that?
I wonder what it would be like to go to a web site's forum and find posts (positive or negative) that are based on actual use of a product vs. blind fanboyism?
Right...like that will ever happen...
As you love your red bold I will use it too: There is actually a Remote Desktop app released by Microsoft for the ARM RT units in the App Store.
Someone else showed me today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
People please it's "free reign" and lose not loose.
No! It is 'free rein' as in the reins of a horse, letting the horse run, not the reign of kings. You are correct with 'lose' and 'loose' however, although there's only about three people left in the world who seem to know it. There's no place in the English language for 'off of' either, but try telling the internet that.
Regarding the Surface: seven hours battery life for the ARM version suggests that it's going to be pretty horrible on the Atom version.
If you want to use it as a laptop but need a hard surface, just keep your favourite pron snap on the desktop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
People please it's "free reign" and lose not loose.
It's actually free rein. But it's a common error.
According to Anandtech:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review/6