i truly hope we see $550/share so i can buy even more; on top of never before seen holiday quarter, brand new iPad in the spring.....i can see $900 in a matter of months, see the larger picture..
Stock markets aren't showing much faith in any of the tech players, particularly those selling hardware, no matter if their profits are doubled YOY.
"Samsung Electronics Co. said July-September net profit nearly doubled to 6.56 trillion won ($5.97 billion) from 3.44 trillion won a year earlier. Revenue for the third quarter climbed 26 percent to 52.2 trillion won (around $47B).
The company's shares fell 2 percent in Seoul after the earnings announcement. Analysts said investors are worried that the widespread adoption of smartphones in developed markets and heightened competition from rivals could squeeze profit from the lucrative smartphone business. Samsung and Apple Inc. together account for nearly half of global smartphone sales.
The South Korean company, which raked in more than half of its profit and revenue from its mobile communications business, said its Galaxy S III and Galaxy Note II smartphones will help sustain its earnings momentum in the final quarter of the year.
Apple analysts worried about Samsung, Samsung analysts worried about Apple. Both companies bring in billions while growing their profits substantially in a downturn market. Sure enough both stocks fall. In three months from now, one of these two will be more of a winner than the other (hoping it's Apple), but both will be winners regardless...and the Wall St. punishment cycle will continue
Definitely know about the whole buy on the rumor and sell on the news. I didn't think this was the case...but it could be applied here I suppose.
Discerning the motivations behind a market's reaction can be tricky. A lot of it is speculation.
A lot of economics (at least used to) assume there is an overall rationality of markets even if individual players aren't rational, but that's not as true as they would like.
And Steve Sinofsky says the iPad mini price is too high for a "recreational device". Microsoft is so obsessed with this whole consumption versus creation. The fact is consumers don't care. It seems to me the majority of consumers have decided that tablets are more for consumption and they're perfectly fine with that. Microsoft is trying to create the be-all and end all product but at the end of the day it will end up being a compromised tablet and a compromised laptop. There's no way anyone is going to do serious work using that touch cover. And the Surface pro is probably not going to be the most portable device that people will want to pick up and read a book on it.
AAPL is weird. the company itself has been on a rampage for years, is minting money, has vast reserves, and still has great potential for growth. but the street still has it priced like a damp squib.
AAPL is weird. the company itself has been on a rampage for years, is minting money, has vast reserves, and still has great potential for growth. but the street still has it priced like a damp squib.
Say there's some sort of big crash. Oil speculation is disallowed or the EU collapses or even just a tech industry bubble bursting. Is it better that Apple has stayed low in any of these scenarios?
Say there's some sort of big crash. Oil speculation is disallowed or the EU collapses or even just a tech industry bubble bursting. Is it better that Apple has stayed low in any of these scenarios?
It absolutely is. Btw I don't think there's a tech bubble. Devices aren't really overpriced and become more and more a part of our everyday life that for some they're almost a necessity.
i truly hope we see $550/share so i can buy even more; on top of never before seen holiday quarter, brand new iPad in the spring.....i can see $900 in a matter of months, see the larger picture..
It's a Friday. Earnings are out. AAPL dipped to $591. That was the last chance below $600.
It's a Friday. Earnings are out. AAPL dipped to $591. That was the last chance below $600.
$800 here we come (give it 4 months).
You really think so? I think we will have a hard time getting to a PE over 15.5, which should put us around $765.
At the same time... all the other stocks I follow (save LULU and SBUX) seem to be going up on mediocrity at best. I start to feel like the players are thinking the days of big gains are now over. Management just isn't convincing in the same way anymore.
But but but I thought Apple purposely overpriced their products so they could command huge margins? /s
What cracks me up is the Wall Street idiots who on the one hand complain about the iPad mini being too expensive and on the other whine about Apple's declining margins this quarter. How do they reconcile that?
....... Management just isn't convincing in the same way anymore.
Forget management. When it comes to share price, Apple is 68% owned by the institutional investor, i.e. pension funds, et. That means, with just a few fund managers and a few clicks on a computer they can achieve huge swings ..... and remember this, year end is coming up so it is in their own best interests to generate as much profits (not the paper kind) as possible.
Fact: Apple is loved by the fund managers because they are almost guaranteed to go up over time, because of their huge profits and stellar performance (as a company...... so there is less risk at doing their best to drive share price down.
Fact: With dividends being paid in mid Nov. (2.65, I believe) to shareholders as of Nov.2, I think .... we will likely see prices rise until Nov. 3rd or so and then "possibly" dip so as to get one more buying point before year end and then rise after the new year to a new high.
Obviously, this is just my take on things and in no way should you risk your money in my opinion. Think for yourself, please.
Well, the analysts may be bearish, but the market sure isn't.
We would do well to remember that the stock market is not rational, at the best of times. In any other occupation, if you make a prediction that does not come true, you were deemed to be wrong. In the stock market, however, the analysts were "right" and the company was "wrong" ..... go figure. The answer, of course, is that analysts can only improve their track record (and thus their fees) by shifting the blame onto "under performing companies" instead of where the blame really lies. Quite a racket they've got going, eh?
Isn't that the underlying problem with the stock market? Any company that goes into the market so people invest in it, invite exactly what Apple is getting: wild speculation.
Honestly, Apple is to be envied with the way analysts speculate about the company. They only talk about Apple like this because Apple has outperformed almost all expectations (even wild ones) for years. I do believe Apple has come to a saturation point though, where everyone expects insane results and forecasts accordingly. And that's what you're seeing now. Apple breaks even, so to speak. That's new, and analysts and hobbyists will adjust to this new phenomena eventually.
A lot of people seem to be stuck on the idea that the past performance of apple stock will predict the future. Dangerous in the post Steve company. I think a lot of people are waiting for new products that are not derivative.
A lot of people seem to be stuck on the idea that the past performance of apple stock will predict the future. Dangerous in the post Steve company. I think a lot of people are waiting for new products that are not derivative.
It depends on what you mean. What Apple products aren't derivative? Even highly innovative products have a long intellectual heritage.
It's pretty rare for a company to shake up the industry it's in as many times as Apple does, but even then, expecting a shake-up every three years is a bit much.
Comments
i truly hope we see $550/share so i can buy even more; on top of never before seen holiday quarter, brand new iPad in the spring.....i can see $900 in a matter of months, see the larger picture..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Stock markets aren't showing much faith in any of the tech players, particularly those selling hardware, no matter if their profits are doubled YOY.
"Samsung Electronics Co. said July-September net profit nearly doubled to 6.56 trillion won ($5.97 billion) from 3.44 trillion won a year earlier. Revenue for the third quarter climbed 26 percent to 52.2 trillion won (around $47B).
The company's shares fell 2 percent in Seoul after the earnings announcement. Analysts said investors are worried that the widespread adoption of smartphones in developed markets and heightened competition from rivals could squeeze profit from the lucrative smartphone business. Samsung and Apple Inc. together account for nearly half of global smartphone sales.
The South Korean company, which raked in more than half of its profit and revenue from its mobile communications business, said its Galaxy S III and Galaxy Note II smartphones will help sustain its earnings momentum in the final quarter of the year.
Apple analysts worried about Samsung, Samsung analysts worried about Apple. Both companies bring in billions while growing their profits substantially in a downturn market. Sure enough both stocks fall. In three months from now, one of these two will be more of a winner than the other (hoping it's Apple), but both will be winners regardless...and the Wall St. punishment cycle will continue
Discerning the motivations behind a market's reaction can be tricky. A lot of it is speculation.
A lot of economics (at least used to) assume there is an overall rationality of markets even if individual players aren't rational, but that's not as true as they would like.
AAPL is weird. the company itself has been on a rampage for years, is minting money, has vast reserves, and still has great potential for growth. but the street still has it priced like a damp squib.
Originally Posted by drow
AAPL is weird. the company itself has been on a rampage for years, is minting money, has vast reserves, and still has great potential for growth. but the street still has it priced like a damp squib.
Say there's some sort of big crash. Oil speculation is disallowed or the EU collapses or even just a tech industry bubble bursting. Is it better that Apple has stayed low in any of these scenarios?
It absolutely is. Btw I don't think there's a tech bubble. Devices aren't really overpriced and become more and more a part of our everyday life that for some they're almost a necessity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Burnett
i truly hope we see $550/share so i can buy even more; on top of never before seen holiday quarter, brand new iPad in the spring.....i can see $900 in a matter of months, see the larger picture..
It's a Friday. Earnings are out. AAPL dipped to $591. That was the last chance below $600.
$800 here we come (give it 4 months).
You really think so? I think we will have a hard time getting to a PE over 15.5, which should put us around $765.
At the same time... all the other stocks I follow (save LULU and SBUX) seem to be going up on mediocrity at best. I start to feel like the players are thinking the days of big gains are now over. Management just isn't convincing in the same way anymore.
What cracks me up is the Wall Street idiots who on the one hand complain about the iPad mini being too expensive and on the other whine about Apple's declining margins this quarter. How do they reconcile that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
....... Management just isn't convincing in the same way anymore.
Forget management. When it comes to share price, Apple is 68% owned by the institutional investor, i.e. pension funds, et. That means, with just a few fund managers and a few clicks on a computer they can achieve huge swings ..... and remember this, year end is coming up so it is in their own best interests to generate as much profits (not the paper kind) as possible.
Fact: Apple is loved by the fund managers because they are almost guaranteed to go up over time, because of their huge profits and stellar performance (as a company...... so there is less risk at doing their best to drive share price down.
Fact: With dividends being paid in mid Nov. (2.65, I believe) to shareholders as of Nov.2, I think .... we will likely see prices rise until Nov. 3rd or so and then "possibly" dip so as to get one more buying point before year end and then rise after the new year to a new high.
Obviously, this is just my take on things and in no way should you risk your money in my opinion. Think for yourself, please.
Originally Posted by wspjr
Apple has abandoned the last of the faithful that used their MacBook Pro and MacMini's for playing games
Yep, because no graphics of any sort could ever be projected using the chips inside any of the five configurations of those computers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Q. Public
Well, the analysts may be bearish, but the market sure isn't.
We would do well to remember that the stock market is not rational, at the best of times. In any other occupation, if you make a prediction that does not come true, you were deemed to be wrong. In the stock market, however, the analysts were "right" and the company was "wrong" ..... go figure. The answer, of course, is that analysts can only improve their track record (and thus their fees) by shifting the blame onto "under performing companies" instead of where the blame really lies. Quite a racket they've got going, eh?
Isn't that the underlying problem with the stock market? Any company that goes into the market so people invest in it, invite exactly what Apple is getting: wild speculation.
Honestly, Apple is to be envied with the way analysts speculate about the company. They only talk about Apple like this because Apple has outperformed almost all expectations (even wild ones) for years. I do believe Apple has come to a saturation point though, where everyone expects insane results and forecasts accordingly. And that's what you're seeing now. Apple breaks even, so to speak. That's new, and analysts and hobbyists will adjust to this new phenomena eventually.
A lot of people seem to be stuck on the idea that the past performance of apple stock will predict the future. Dangerous in the post Steve company. I think a lot of people are waiting for new products that are not derivative.
It depends on what you mean. What Apple products aren't derivative? Even highly innovative products have a long intellectual heritage.
It's pretty rare for a company to shake up the industry it's in as many times as Apple does, but even then, expecting a shake-up every three years is a bit much.