I can tell you knowing Scott that the leave would be amicable and one where he has planned for some time to allow him the opportunity to run his own start-up. I've known Scott since '96 so it makes sense for him to finally leave the nest from NeXT/Apple and try his own vision out from start to finish.
Best wishes. I know of several of my former colleagues working on start ups.
In your opinion then, Scott is unlikely to engage in activities that would harm Apple...
I don't think that assessment warranted that 'fool' comment. Very many execs have made incredible contributions and just, I dunno, kinda lost it a bit. No one here really knows what happened. It's almost as if Scott was out spending his millions and lost focus. Just joking-but something happened. Perhaps it was the loss of Steve, perhaps he didn't want his team merged with the Mac team, perhaps his team couldn't keep up with the needed pace of innovation. I dunno: I simply have been increasingly happy with OS X and decreasingly happy with iOS.
Here's just a minor one:
Reminders had a great feature in iOS 5 where, once in Reminders app, I could swipe right-to-left to switch between different Reminders categories (Personal, Professional, etc.). It was brilliant, so I began using Reminders each day, throughout the day, for the first time. Now, in iOS 6, whenever I change a category, I need to tap a drop-down list icon, tap the category, and edit the reminder. It seems minor, but in many instances, the UI sees to have gotten less simple and more complicated. It appears to be a trend I noticed. Since those decisions go to Scott's hands-on leadership, or dearth thereof, the buck stops with him.
And guess what, if Eddy Cue and his team can't get iTunes into shape with iTunes 11, I'll be left with more of an impression that Apple has been unable to tie-up loose UI and UX ends in their internet software and services.
As a former colleague of Scott's the comment is that of a fool. As a former colleague of his at NeXT and Apple the notion that one person [outside of Steve] makes the design decisions for the architecture and UI implementations is insulting to the teams of folks that do the heavy lifting. One only realizes how highly focused, detailed oriented and passionate the teams are at Apple, relative to the rest of the industry, after one leaves to try out new digs.
Most people in the industry are hacks. Most computer science majors consider themselves Engineers. They aren't. They never will be. Completely different disciplines. Most people in this industry are ill-suited to being in this industry, much like the Medical world. People go where the money flows and it often results in a complete waste of time for them and confrontations with driven people who have zero tolerance for ill-suited bodies filling up slots other people more well-suited should occupy.
Being both a M.E. and CS gives me that unique understanding.
Scott is a driven person. Whatever he decides to focus on I'm sure it will probably center around his work with Siri and other human-machine relationships.
There are tens of thousands of jobs at Apple where you will never come across Scott or anyone inside Apple Engineering. If you want in, bring your passion or step aside. It's very simple.
I like all the trolls jumping in here proclaiming Forstall was 'holding iOS back'. Unbelievable. Didn't SJ promise him that he'd 'always have a place' at Apple before he left? I guess not.
Forstall was the only guy I could see carrying SJ's torch, and his presence at the company is what made SJ's departure/death easier to swallow. I always saw him as 'getting it' more than anyone else. I really want to know who initiated this departure, and the reasons for it. Everything being spouted here and other places online are pure bullshit speculation. I want to know the real reasons. Apple's speed of innovation post-iOS has been the fastest and most intense in its history, despise what all the short-sighted people here say.
It's also disgusting that he's being lumped in with the John Browett departure, putting them in the same boat, as if theres any comparison between the two. And not a single statement from Cook of thanks, etc, or aknowledgement to Forstall in that release for his massive role at Apple. Just a 'shifting' of management. What a lack of class and respect for what the guy has done. Whats worse are the armchair analysts here proclaiming how Forstall has been an 'increasing problem' at Apple, as if they know the first thing about anything that goes o there, talking completely out of their ass. The attacks on his character and appearance are also classy. Keep it up guys.
Maybe they just hired Browett so they would have somebody crappy to fire when somebody important left the company, so they'd balance each other out. Or maybe Ron Johnson is having second thoughts about JC Penney (which would be good). It's hard for me to see Forstall's departure as positive, but it's hard to say what was going on behind the scenes. If he wasn't into what he was doing, or he was causing internal friction, it's probably just as well that he leaves.
Maybe he will start a new company making something innovative--if thermostats are his thing, I can see the competition in that industry really heating up.
I've got nothing to add that already hasn't been expressed. From what about Scott's work at Apple he seemed to be great so I'll miss him, but glad that Browett will be leaving.
It's interesting to see this development. Having Jony Ive take over Human Interface across the board could present a change of course for the look and feel of iOS and OS X. This will have to be coordinated with Craig Federighi though, as he's going to be leading both iOS and OS X teams.
I personally look forward to the changes Ive will bring to iOS and OS X. We've all seen how classy he makes the products look. It's time to see how classy he can make the software look.
As a former colleague of Scott's the comment is that of a fool. As a former colleague of his at NeXT and Apple the notion that one person [outside of Steve] makes the design decisions for the architecture and UI implementations is insulting to the teams of folks that do the heavy lifting. One only realizes how highly focused, detailed oriented and passionate the teams are at Apple, relative to the rest of the industry, after one leaves to try out new digs.
Most people in the industry are hacks. Most computer science majors consider themselves Engineers. They aren't. They never will be. Completely different disciplines. Most people in this industry are ill-suited to being in this industry, much like the Medical world. People go where the money flows and it often results in a complete waste of time for them and confrontations with driven people who have zero tolerance for ill-suited bodies filling up slots other people more well-suited should occupy.
Being both a M.E. and CS gives me that unique understanding.
Scott is a driven person. Whatever he decides to focus on I'm sure it will probably center around his work with Siri and other human-machine relationships.
There are tens of thousands of jobs at Apple where you will never come across Scott or anyone inside Apple Engineering. If you want in, bring your passion or step aside. It's very simple.
In your opinion, you think Federeghi is as capable as Forstall in leading the iOS team?
On a side note, a really interesting take on today's exec shake-up;
I think the thing with Forstall is that he rubbed a lot of people too hard and the wrong way. His HUGE ego couldn't fit in a stadium. But then could Steve Job's ego?
I think the final straw was Bob Mansfield saying he was retiring. I think that Tim Cook heard things from other top people in Apple saying they were thinking about leaving too if Forstall was going to stay and Mansfield was leaving.
Notice the timing of this and when Forstall sold almost all (95%?). I think he found out then that he wasn't going to be around long term anymore.
And I think the "advisor" roll isn't really that at all. It is just a title to keep him out of the way but employed until he hits another stock option and/or to pay him hush money so he doesn't directly compete and also that he doesn't start saying bad things about Apple.
I'm serious that I think there is a tie-in with Mansfield leaving and then coming back plus the hard feelings Forstall has been creating all around Apple for years. As someone else said on another site, I think it was only a matter of time before Forstall was out after Steve Jobs, his protector, was gone.
I thought something was up when he Forstall wasn't included in anything.
I also thought it was unusual that Bertrand Serlet Was in the audience during the last keynote. I saw him... Think he might come back? Or maybe he just always attends and its the first time I noticed him.
If I had to guess, the whole Maps things didn't help Forstall's position in executive management. There may have been other reasons. He's not just being fired though since he'll be around in an advisor role for a little while. What will be interesting is where he will show up again. He probably wants to run his own company and that may not have been in the future with the Cook era underway. Well, at least we now know why he wasn't at the recent product rollout.
Browett on the other hand, looks like he was just fired.
What's also curious is what's left. Eddy Cue is pretty much taking over all app development, be it iOS or OS X. Craig Federighi is going to be the operating system czar. And Bob Mansfield, who had previously announced retirement from the hardware group is now head of the new Technologies group. This should be an interesting position for him since it handles all of Apple's chipmaking operations into his org. Talk about a growing business.
Cook was chosen to be the heir, and Forstallis not. I would not be surprised that he wants to be the CEO of another tech company. He sold all (or almost all) his stocks earlier in the year. Are both Siri and the Maps his juridiction? Everyone, possibly including Jobs, knew that Siri was a work in progress. Maps is just sloppy and unlike what Apple would normally do. Cook probably would not want Fostall to be around too. Apple has a deep bench. Losing Forstall is no big deal.
Scott Forstall left an incredible legacy and foundation for iOS to move forward. And I hope it was his decision to go. Nonetheless, I'm not sure he was able to maintain focus and vision. Despite all the excuses, in my opinion, iOS Contacts, Calendar, Podcasts, Maps, and Siri apps are not as functional as they should be at this point in time. That's a lotta half-baked core iOS apps that are a drag on the iOS UX. Period.
I love Apple as much as the next guy and have tremendous respect for its executive team, but company needs tend to change. It's kinda like a legend of a championship sports team that simply no longer can lead the team to victory the way he used to. Or, consider how over time great people in otherwise great friendships grow apart. The pace of innovation in the mobile OS market might have been too quick for his team to keep up with.
I read that Forstall's relationship with Jony Ive was terrible. The rumor said Ive refused to attend any meeting that Forstall was at. Seems likely to me that Forstall burned his bridges and Cook made his decision.
Scott sounds like almost a complete duplicate of Steve Jobs. I don't necessarily see his departure as a good thing.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
I can tell you knowing Scott that the leave would be amicable and one where he has planned for some time to allow him the opportunity to run his own start-up. I've known Scott since '96 so it makes sense for him to finally leave the nest from NeXT/Apple and try his own vision out from start to finish.
Best wishes. I know of several of my former colleagues working on start ups.
In your opinion then, Scott is unlikely to engage in activities that would harm Apple...
SolipsismX, you're quiet!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
The logical successor is Federighi. Craig is perfect for the role.
The question is, is Federighi as capable (if not more so) as Forstall in leading such a hugely important OS team?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia
I don't think that assessment warranted that 'fool' comment. Very many execs have made incredible contributions and just, I dunno, kinda lost it a bit. No one here really knows what happened. It's almost as if Scott was out spending his millions and lost focus. Just joking-but something happened. Perhaps it was the loss of Steve, perhaps he didn't want his team merged with the Mac team, perhaps his team couldn't keep up with the needed pace of innovation. I dunno: I simply have been increasingly happy with OS X and decreasingly happy with iOS.
Here's just a minor one:
Reminders had a great feature in iOS 5 where, once in Reminders app, I could swipe right-to-left to switch between different Reminders categories (Personal, Professional, etc.). It was brilliant, so I began using Reminders each day, throughout the day, for the first time. Now, in iOS 6, whenever I change a category, I need to tap a drop-down list icon, tap the category, and edit the reminder. It seems minor, but in many instances, the UI sees to have gotten less simple and more complicated. It appears to be a trend I noticed. Since those decisions go to Scott's hands-on leadership, or dearth thereof, the buck stops with him.
And guess what, if Eddy Cue and his team can't get iTunes into shape with iTunes 11, I'll be left with more of an impression that Apple has been unable to tie-up loose UI and UX ends in their internet software and services.
As a former colleague of Scott's the comment is that of a fool. As a former colleague of his at NeXT and Apple the notion that one person [outside of Steve] makes the design decisions for the architecture and UI implementations is insulting to the teams of folks that do the heavy lifting. One only realizes how highly focused, detailed oriented and passionate the teams are at Apple, relative to the rest of the industry, after one leaves to try out new digs.
Most people in the industry are hacks. Most computer science majors consider themselves Engineers. They aren't. They never will be. Completely different disciplines. Most people in this industry are ill-suited to being in this industry, much like the Medical world. People go where the money flows and it often results in a complete waste of time for them and confrontations with driven people who have zero tolerance for ill-suited bodies filling up slots other people more well-suited should occupy.
Being both a M.E. and CS gives me that unique understanding.
Scott is a driven person. Whatever he decides to focus on I'm sure it will probably center around his work with Siri and other human-machine relationships.
There are tens of thousands of jobs at Apple where you will never come across Scott or anyone inside Apple Engineering. If you want in, bring your passion or step aside. It's very simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
I like all the trolls jumping in here proclaiming Forstall was 'holding iOS back'. Unbelievable. Didn't SJ promise him that he'd 'always have a place' at Apple before he left? I guess not.
Forstall was the only guy I could see carrying SJ's torch, and his presence at the company is what made SJ's departure/death easier to swallow. I always saw him as 'getting it' more than anyone else. I really want to know who initiated this departure, and the reasons for it. Everything being spouted here and other places online are pure bullshit speculation. I want to know the real reasons. Apple's speed of innovation post-iOS has been the fastest and most intense in its history, despise what all the short-sighted people here say.
It's also disgusting that he's being lumped in with the John Browett departure, putting them in the same boat, as if theres any comparison between the two. And not a single statement from Cook of thanks, etc, or aknowledgement to Forstall in that release for his massive role at Apple. Just a 'shifting' of management. What a lack of class and respect for what the guy has done. Whats worse are the armchair analysts here proclaiming how Forstall has been an 'increasing problem' at Apple, as if they know the first thing about anything that goes o there, talking completely out of their ass. The attacks on his character and appearance are also classy. Keep it up guys.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }Thanks for your comments, Scott' mom.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Maybe they just hired Browett so they would have somebody crappy to fire when somebody important left the company, so they'd balance each other out. Or maybe Ron Johnson is having second thoughts about JC Penney (which would be good). It's hard for me to see Forstall's departure as positive, but it's hard to say what was going on behind the scenes. If he wasn't into what he was doing, or he was causing internal friction, it's probably just as well that he leaves.
Maybe he will start a new company making something innovative--if thermostats are his thing, I can see the competition in that industry really heating up.
IMHO, I think may have a drug problem. . .
I've got nothing to add that already hasn't been expressed. From what about Scott's work at Apple he seemed to be great so I'll miss him, but glad that Browett will be leaving.
It's interesting to see this development. Having Jony Ive take over Human Interface across the board could present a change of course for the look and feel of iOS and OS X. This will have to be coordinated with Craig Federighi though, as he's going to be leading both iOS and OS X teams.
I personally look forward to the changes Ive will bring to iOS and OS X. We've all seen how classy he makes the products look. It's time to see how classy he can make the software look.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet
Well, at least we now know why he wasn't at the recent product rollout.
I think he's front row, fourth in: Ive, Mansfield, Riccio, Forstall (or someone who bears a close resemblance?).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
As a former colleague of Scott's the comment is that of a fool. As a former colleague of his at NeXT and Apple the notion that one person [outside of Steve] makes the design decisions for the architecture and UI implementations is insulting to the teams of folks that do the heavy lifting. One only realizes how highly focused, detailed oriented and passionate the teams are at Apple, relative to the rest of the industry, after one leaves to try out new digs.
Most people in the industry are hacks. Most computer science majors consider themselves Engineers. They aren't. They never will be. Completely different disciplines. Most people in this industry are ill-suited to being in this industry, much like the Medical world. People go where the money flows and it often results in a complete waste of time for them and confrontations with driven people who have zero tolerance for ill-suited bodies filling up slots other people more well-suited should occupy.
Being both a M.E. and CS gives me that unique understanding.
Scott is a driven person. Whatever he decides to focus on I'm sure it will probably center around his work with Siri and other human-machine relationships.
There are tens of thousands of jobs at Apple where you will never come across Scott or anyone inside Apple Engineering. If you want in, bring your passion or step aside. It's very simple.
In your opinion, you think Federeghi is as capable as Forstall in leading the iOS team?
On a side note, a really interesting take on today's exec shake-up;
http://daringfireball.net/2012/10/forstall_out
I think the thing with Forstall is that he rubbed a lot of people too hard and the wrong way. His HUGE ego couldn't fit in a stadium. But then could Steve Job's ego?
I think the final straw was Bob Mansfield saying he was retiring. I think that Tim Cook heard things from other top people in Apple saying they were thinking about leaving too if Forstall was going to stay and Mansfield was leaving.
Notice the timing of this and when Forstall sold almost all (95%?). I think he found out then that he wasn't going to be around long term anymore.
And I think the "advisor" roll isn't really that at all. It is just a title to keep him out of the way but employed until he hits another stock option and/or to pay him hush money so he doesn't directly compete and also that he doesn't start saying bad things about Apple.
I'm serious that I think there is a tie-in with Mansfield leaving and then coming back plus the hard feelings Forstall has been creating all around Apple for years. As someone else said on another site, I think it was only a matter of time before Forstall was out after Steve Jobs, his protector, was gone.
I thought something was up when he Forstall wasn't included in anything.
I also thought it was unusual that Bertrand Serlet Was in the audience during the last keynote. I saw him... Think he might come back? Or maybe he just always attends and its the first time I noticed him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevenfeet
If I had to guess, the whole Maps things didn't help Forstall's position in executive management. There may have been other reasons. He's not just being fired though since he'll be around in an advisor role for a little while. What will be interesting is where he will show up again. He probably wants to run his own company and that may not have been in the future with the Cook era underway. Well, at least we now know why he wasn't at the recent product rollout.
Browett on the other hand, looks like he was just fired.
What's also curious is what's left. Eddy Cue is pretty much taking over all app development, be it iOS or OS X. Craig Federighi is going to be the operating system czar. And Bob Mansfield, who had previously announced retirement from the hardware group is now head of the new Technologies group. This should be an interesting position for him since it handles all of Apple's chipmaking operations into his org. Talk about a growing business.
Cook was chosen to be the heir, and Forstallis not. I would not be surprised that he wants to be the CEO of another tech company. He sold all (or almost all) his stocks earlier in the year. Are both Siri and the Maps his juridiction? Everyone, possibly including Jobs, knew that Siri was a work in progress. Maps is just sloppy and unlike what Apple would normally do. Cook probably would not want Fostall to be around too. Apple has a deep bench. Losing Forstall is no big deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Maybe Scott will come back and start Apple 3.0 one day...
He looks like a maniac, and Apple is too big now for someone like him (maybe). Let him create his own NEXT.
I agree. Forstall is not an unambitious person and woe to Apple if he signs up with a competitor.
Mark this post...
Scott Forstal will not leave. He will be given a different management position.
Perhaps permanent adviser to Tim Cook.
Time will tell.
Scott Forstall left an incredible legacy and foundation for iOS to move forward. And I hope it was his decision to go. Nonetheless, I'm not sure he was able to maintain focus and vision. Despite all the excuses, in my opinion, iOS Contacts, Calendar, Podcasts, Maps, and Siri apps are not as functional as they should be at this point in time. That's a lotta half-baked core iOS apps that are a drag on the iOS UX. Period.
I love Apple as much as the next guy and have tremendous respect for its executive team, but company needs tend to change. It's kinda like a legend of a championship sports team that simply no longer can lead the team to victory the way he used to. Or, consider how over time great people in otherwise great friendships grow apart. The pace of innovation in the mobile OS market might have been too quick for his team to keep up with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by delreyjones
I read that Forstall's relationship with Jony Ive was terrible. The rumor said Ive refused to attend any meeting that Forstall was at. Seems likely to me that Forstall burned his bridges and Cook made his decision.
Scott sounds like almost a complete duplicate of Steve Jobs. I don't necessarily see his departure as a good thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub
I still wonder why I can't scroll up (or down) the page like a PDF when reading a book. Would be much easier reading in bed.
"Continuous Scrolling in iBooks 3".