These are really sad news. It is stupid that Apple had to apologize for ignorant riotty people that make a huge deal out of the smallest things.
Wasn't just a coincidence that that antenna issue only affected customers in the US? When I first got my iPhone I use to hide in the closet and crush the metal band with my hand or tried to short circuit them with a piece of wire or aluminum in order to make them fail and verify whatever was going on and couldn't. Houses in my country are made out of concrete and rebar and stone making them a Wi-Fi nightmare but strong cell tower signals had no problem. This was a network issue.
Google Maps had never worked, directions were always wrong and my typing my address in would take me to another place in the country, not even in the city. To date, Google Maps still doesn't have the data right, even though there is Street View of my place. Association with TomTom changed all that, now I can safely ask for directions without the fear of it taking me to streets in the opposite way or streets that aren't there.
I'm glad Tim has taken Apple to a place where they finally have a strong lineup yet saddened that he's such a pushover. Apple shouldn't be apologizing for people's stupidness.
P.S. am I the only one that has no problems with Apple maps? I have used the Siri GPS function at least 10 times so far without a hitch. I have found no difference between this and the Google app version, other than the Apple app is much more elegant.
I've voiced my opinions of Maps for a long time now from an objective PoV.The first two betas were slow on my iPhone 4 but I don't count pre-release SW in my overall opinion of a shipping product. I've also voiced my concern over the lack of a Street View replacement, a feature I do use.
That said, anecdotally i've found Maps to be a treat and great upgrade from the previous Maps app (emphasis on app). My issue has been that they "over promised and under delivered" a service by selling in a very specific way that would end up backfiring when there was more than enough excellent parts to showcase about their budding new app and service.
As a company with so much mindshare Apple can't do what others are doing and expect the same result. Apple is under the microscope with everything they do so they have to be sure what they claim will hold up in a much wider market. it's not a bad place to be and any reasonable company would trade places with them.
You may think he's the greatest business executive after Jobs but if nobody wants to work with him he's basically useless for Apple. There are very few people who have enough stature and prestige to be able to get away with your much cherished "F.U." attitude. In business, Steve Jobs did. Winston Churchill, in politics. Douglas MacArthur in the military. Who is Scott Forstall that he would be able to strut around as if he were Steve Jobs? Especially towards his colleagues at Apple? You think Ive, Schiller, & Mansfield, not to mention Tim Cook, would put up with an erstwhile colleague who starts acting like a self-appointed Steve Jobs mini-me?
Totally agree, unless you own the company, own all the shares, have no employees, then you better not have FU attitude. Btw Steve Jobs knew how to charm people, when it was needed to be done and did that very well!!
Screw that. They don't have to apologize for ANYTHING. He knows how good it WILL be; why would he apologize for that? That's like Einstein's parents apologizing because their two year old was 'unruly'. Put it in context and it's not really important.
They did have to apologize. Just as I was stating since the first Beta, it wasn't the same experience that they showcased during the demo. Whether that is Forestall's doing or not, Apple had to apologize for raising expectations well above was feasible for their entry into a maps service.
Now Apple Maps is good, it's not Google Maps good on the backend, but it's still good with many great aspects to it, and as we've discussed ad nauseum they had no choice but to release this year to bring iOS out of the lack of TbT and bitmaps that we would have been saddled with for another year if they had stuck with Google Maps.
So giving Forestall the benefit of the doubt here and suggesting that he wanted a more timid Maps demo that didn't happen and sometimes you have to take one for the team so I think he should have signed the apology.
I think a better approach would have been to call a press event:
1) Tim make the apology as he did
2) Turn the session over to Scott
3). Scott tell what steps they are taking ti address the problems (more detail) and the long term advantages of staying the course
4). Back to Tim who summarizes the above
It's called T3:
1) Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em
2) Tell 'em
3). Tell 'em what you told 'em
This would have been a better apology, and allowed the opportunity for Scott learn [the advantage of] humility by putting it to practice.
I think a better approach would have been to call a press event:
1) Tim make the apology as he did
2) Turn the session over to Scott
3). Scott tell what steps they are taking ti address the problems (more detail) and the long term advantages of staying the course
4). Back to Tim who summarizes the above
It's called T3:
1) Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em
2) Tell 'em
3). Tell 'em what you told 'em
This would have been a better apology, and allowed the opportunity for Scott learn humility by putting it to practice.
Yep that would have been a better approach, since the apology letter as you have stated, does not tell us, how Apple going to refine Maps (did not use the word 'fix', since it is refinement to ensure majority of users, enjoy the experience).
Edit: I know this is not related to discussion, very excited at getting my iPhone 5 on 5th November in India. The launch is 2nd, but I am away on business and could not get a flight back to pick up this beauty and get back to my meetings...lol
Screw that. They don't have to apologize for ANYTHING. He knows how good it WILL be; why would he apologize for that? That's like Einstein's parents apologizing because their two year old was 'unruly'. Put it in context and it's not really important.
And that is why you are not running Apple.
Isn't this they guy who pushed a virtual leather address book???
I think a better approach would have been to call a press event:
1) Tim make the apology as he did
2) Turn the session over to Scott
3). Scott tell what steps they are taking ti address the problems (more detail) and the long term advantages of staying the course
4). Back to Tim who summarizes the above
It's called T3:
1) Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em
2) Tell 'em
3). Tell 'em what you told 'em
This would have been a better apology, and allowed the opportunity for Scott learn [the advantage of] humility by putting it to practice.
I disagree. I think the better approach was to been more transparent about Maps during the original demo to the point of preventing an impromptu apology and/or press event from being needed.
2 words. Lazy media. No they did not have to apologize . 100 million people now have iOS on their devices and there is not the rioting outside of the Apple stores the media lead us to believe would happen due to how bad the Maps supposedly was. Guess what? It's not that bad and is in fact pretty good. Whatever Apple does there will be people in media who find it is easier to get web hits sensationalizing "news" than actual investigating an issue.
Forstall lacks integrity: he oversold Maps and lacks an effective RDF. I can understand his not wishing to sign an apology letter--only because it's not in him. So he's gone and that's life. Survival of the fittest.
Screw that. ...why would he apologize for that? That's like Einstein's parents apologizing because their two year old was 'unruly'. Put it in context and it's not really important.
I don't buy into the speculation about the reasons he left, however having said that I will accept it hypothetically for the purpose of replying to your question.
The bottom line is that Jobs, (In Jobs We Trust) put his faith in Cook, and if Cook made a decision that he wanted Forstall's signature on the public apology then we must trust that, otherwise it's just about ego and the ego is responsible for messing up most people's lives and it's Cook's job to not let ego mess up Apple.
P.S. am I the only one that has no problems with Apple maps? I have used the Siri GPS function at least 10 times so far without a hitch. I have found no difference between this and the Google app version, other than the Apple app is much more elegant.
Comments
LOL, how to get rid of an inconvenient VP:
1. assign impossible task (but seemingly possible enough so that the mile-high ego VP signs on)
2. don't veto the release of the results from this task
3. let the shit hit the fan
4. issue apology letter and let that VP lose face
5. make the case for this VP dismissal in front of the board. Because the failure cost Apple a fortune in reputation.
6. FIRED !!!
Wasn't just a coincidence that that antenna issue only affected customers in the US? When I first got my iPhone I use to hide in the closet and crush the metal band with my hand or tried to short circuit them with a piece of wire or aluminum in order to make them fail and verify whatever was going on and couldn't. Houses in my country are made out of concrete and rebar and stone making them a Wi-Fi nightmare but strong cell tower signals had no problem. This was a network issue.
Google Maps had never worked, directions were always wrong and my typing my address in would take me to another place in the country, not even in the city. To date, Google Maps still doesn't have the data right, even though there is Street View of my place. Association with TomTom changed all that, now I can safely ask for directions without the fear of it taking me to streets in the opposite way or streets that aren't there.
I'm glad Tim has taken Apple to a place where they finally have a strong lineup yet saddened that he's such a pushover. Apple shouldn't be apologizing for people's stupidness.
I've voiced my opinions of Maps for a long time now from an objective PoV.The first two betas were slow on my iPhone 4 but I don't count pre-release SW in my overall opinion of a shipping product. I've also voiced my concern over the lack of a Street View replacement, a feature I do use.
That said, anecdotally i've found Maps to be a treat and great upgrade from the previous Maps app (emphasis on app). My issue has been that they "over promised and under delivered" a service by selling in a very specific way that would end up backfiring when there was more than enough excellent parts to showcase about their budding new app and service.
As a company with so much mindshare Apple can't do what others are doing and expect the same result. Apple is under the microscope with everything they do so they have to be sure what they claim will hold up in a much wider market. it's not a bad place to be and any reasonable company would trade places with them.
Thank you for making my point.
I got to Hell and never finished.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy
You may think he's the greatest business executive after Jobs but if nobody wants to work with him he's basically useless for Apple. There are very few people who have enough stature and prestige to be able to get away with your much cherished "F.U." attitude. In business, Steve Jobs did. Winston Churchill, in politics. Douglas MacArthur in the military. Who is Scott Forstall that he would be able to strut around as if he were Steve Jobs? Especially towards his colleagues at Apple? You think Ive, Schiller, & Mansfield, not to mention Tim Cook, would put up with an erstwhile colleague who starts acting like a self-appointed Steve Jobs mini-me?
Totally agree, unless you own the company, own all the shares, have no employees, then you better not have FU attitude. Btw Steve Jobs knew how to charm people, when it was needed to be done and did that very well!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Knight
Thank you for making my point.
what was your point???? You reply does not tell us what point, you were making or who you referring to, has helped you to make your point.
I think a better approach would have been to call a press event:
1) Tim make the apology as he did
2) Turn the session over to Scott
3). Scott tell what steps they are taking ti address the problems (more detail) and the long term advantages of staying the course
4). Back to Tim who summarizes the above
It's called T3:
1) Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em
2) Tell 'em
3). Tell 'em what you told 'em
This would have been a better apology, and allowed the opportunity for Scott learn [the advantage of] humility by putting it to practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I think a better approach would have been to call a press event:
1) Tim make the apology as he did
2) Turn the session over to Scott
3). Scott tell what steps they are taking ti address the problems (more detail) and the long term advantages of staying the course
4). Back to Tim who summarizes the above
It's called T3:
1) Tell 'em what you're gonna tell 'em
2) Tell 'em
3). Tell 'em what you told 'em
This would have been a better apology, and allowed the opportunity for Scott learn humility by putting it to practice.
Yep that would have been a better approach, since the apology letter as you have stated, does not tell us, how Apple going to refine Maps (did not use the word 'fix', since it is refinement to ensure majority of users, enjoy the experience).
Edit: I know this is not related to discussion, very excited at getting my iPhone 5 on 5th November in India. The launch is 2nd, but I am away on business and could not get a flight back to pick up this beauty and get back to my meetings...lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
AND RIGHTLY SO!
Screw that. They don't have to apologize for ANYTHING. He knows how good it WILL be; why would he apologize for that? That's like Einstein's parents apologizing because their two year old was 'unruly'. Put it in context and it's not really important.
And that is why you are not running Apple.
Isn't this they guy who pushed a virtual leather address book???
Its also interesting the waited until after the earnings report. This has been in works for a while and they choose this day, week intentionally.
I disagree. I think the better approach was to been more transparent about Maps during the original demo to the point of preventing an impromptu apology and/or press event from being needed.
2 words. Lazy media. No they did not have to apologize . 100 million people now have iOS on their devices and there is not the rioting outside of the Apple stores the media lead us to believe would happen due to how bad the Maps supposedly was. Guess what? It's not that bad and is in fact pretty good. Whatever Apple does there will be people in media who find it is easier to get web hits sensationalizing "news" than actual investigating an issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing
And that is why you are not running Apple.
Touche!
Forstall lacks integrity: he oversold Maps and lacks an effective RDF. I can understand his not wishing to sign an apology letter--only because it's not in him. So he's gone and that's life. Survival of the fittest.
Federighi is highly accomplished yet humble.
Someone suggested that they should have named the recent hurricane "A-Rod" instead of "Sandy"... Then it wouldn't have hit anything!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarcoot
Its also interesting the waited until after the earnings report. This has been in works for a while and they choose this day, week intentionally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
AND RIGHTLY SO!
Screw that. ...why would he apologize for that? That's like Einstein's parents apologizing because their two year old was 'unruly'. Put it in context and it's not really important.
I don't buy into the speculation about the reasons he left, however having said that I will accept it hypothetically for the purpose of replying to your question.
The bottom line is that Jobs, (In Jobs We Trust) put his faith in Cook, and if Cook made a decision that he wanted Forstall's signature on the public apology then we must trust that, otherwise it's just about ego and the ego is responsible for messing up most people's lives and it's Cook's job to not let ego mess up Apple.
Originally Posted by tundraboy
Touche!
Perhaps create an argument based in fact yourself before standing behind the equally flawed arguments of another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82
P.S. am I the only one that has no problems with Apple maps? I have used the Siri GPS function at least 10 times so far without a hitch. I have found no difference between this and the Google app version, other than the Apple app is much more elegant.
It works perfectly for me.