Apple Gaming Industry

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  • Reply 21 of 38
    resres Posts: 711member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jms698

    Very interesting point. I agree.



    However, I think that general computing on a "console" will happen. A super-powerful next generation cell-like processor will easily be able to run/emulate a PC operating system. Intel's 15 year roadmap is for all processor to eventually look like similar to the cell (which is ahead of it's time, see http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453&p=2).



    So, the "console/media center" could take the place of the Powermac G5 in the home. "General computing" then falls by the wayside and we're left with, as you say, all other computing being mobile. Laptops all the way.





    I agree, there is no real reason to keep general computing applications off of the consoles - they are already powerful enough to run many popular programs, and as the tech gets higher and cheaper they will become ever more powerful. There is already talk of releasing an e-mail client, word processor and web browser for the PSP (which will really come in handy).



    I think that in a couple of decades most households will have one computer that takes care of all the computing needs, and the individual household members will each have a portable system that they will carry around with them.



    Oops: all of this has little to do with the original question of this thread: "Will the INTEL Apple's be more freindly for game programmers to produce more games? If this is the case I will hold out for the INTEL laptops rather than purchase the existing model."



    I think that it will take some time for things to smooth out, but eventually, sometime after Macs go Intel, it will become easer for game designers and porters to make games for the Mac. If you would make good use of a powerbook now, get it and enjoy. You should be able to get a couple of years of good use out of it before you will see any Intel mac only games.
  • Reply 22 of 38
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    The current consoles don't have networking (ethernet) well-integrated, but note that the next generation all have it as a centerpiece in their design. I'm not fond of Microsoft's locking you into their servers, but most people won't care.



    Inasmuch as most home computing is word processing, net surfing and email, and gaming, the next generation of consoles will do all of these things well, and home computers will gradually cease to exist.



    There are already display adapters that allow GameCubes and Playstations to be used portably, also. The PSP and DS are too small for general computing, but there's no reason why we couldn't see a laptop version of the Xbox, Revolution or PS3, once the demand starts rising.



    In a few years there will be servers and thin clients, all running either proprietary or web-services protocols, or both, and personal computing will be well and truly gone. There will be only niche markets for graphics workstations and the like.
  • Reply 23 of 38
    chagichagi Posts: 284member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Reid

    I don't play video games, so forgive me for not getting it, but I don't understand why anyone uses a $four-figure plus PC to play games vs. a $150 PlayStation or Xbox. I'd think the experience would be much better on a big screen TV with surround sound and a decent controller, vs. using, say, the keyboard and trackpad on a laptop.



    I'm just continually surprised by how much serious gamers spend on their computers, when they could have a perfectly optimized console with just as many games to choose from for so much less. Is it because PC games are easier to pirate? Or are there certain games where the PC does offer a better experience?




    Historically computer games have usually held the lead over console games in terms of graphics, depth, ability to play online, interface (keyboard + mouse is frequently better than a gamepad). It's also worth noting that I find most PC games far more interesting than the majority of the console games out there.



    A smart gamer doesn't need to spend thousands of dollars on a PC in order to build a gaming system, I could probably spec one out that would cost around $800 CND that would do the job quite nicely. For example, it isn't necessary to buy a $500+ video card to get a good gaming experience on the PC, you just need to buy the right mid-range card (right now that card would mostly likely be a GeForce 6600GT).



    That said, the picture is going to get more interesting going forwards, since the next gen of online consoles will likely excel in terms of graphics capability, inclusion of online play, cost, etc. The key difficulty that consoles still face though is that they are static designs, so it generally doesn't take long for a PC to exceed their capabilities (due to a steady flow of new CPUs, motherboard tech, graphics cards, etc.).
  • Reply 24 of 38
    yeah a personal computer is way better for Sim City, The Sims, Warcraft etc.. games where a mouse comes in handy and when you need lots of detail and text.



    A console rules if you're playing Madden, racing games, Mario games, etc.



    I made the mistake to purchase the Sims for X-box and it's pretty bad, clumsy interface, hard to read the text.



    And the other way around, trying to play a PC version of Madden is not very fun or easy in my opinion.
  • Reply 25 of 38
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Console computing will never happen. Why? It's geared towards gaming and not towards a multipurpose environment.



    Let me know when the PSP and consoles get a keyboard and mouse to facilitate *writing* anything.
  • Reply 26 of 38
    resres Posts: 711member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    Console computing will never happen. Why? It's geared towards gaming and not towards a multipurpose environment.



    Let me know when the PSP and consoles get a keyboard and mouse to facilitate *writing* anything.




    Well, keyboards, at least, are coming for the PSP: the Logic 3 PSP keyboard has been announced and will be shipping in a few months. And, while I agree that consoles are geared towards gaming, they do have the processing power for browsing, writing, e-mail, etc., and over the next few decades I think separate machines for gaming and general computing will no longer make sense, or be economically competitive.



    And, of course, you can already run full versions of linux on your Xbox: http://www.xbox-linux.org/
  • Reply 27 of 38
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    Console computing will never happen. Why? It's geared towards gaming and not towards a multipurpose environment.



    Let me know when the PSP and consoles get a keyboard and mouse to facilitate *writing* anything.




    and Sony might want you to run Linux on a PS3... I believe they even had a developer kit so you could run Linux on PS2.



    Edit: The Sega Dreamcast actually had an internet kit with browser, email and a keyboard I think. There's a PS mouse too. Many years ago the SNES had a mouse. The console industry has toyed with the "general computing" idea more than once but it hasn't really taken off. You can't blame them for trying. They're just trying to give a broader set of options to the gamer. They're not trying to replace general purpose computing.
  • Reply 28 of 38
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Res

    Well, keyboards, at least, are coming for the PSP: the Logic 3 PSP keyboard has been announced and will be shipping in a few months. And, while I agree that consoles are geared towards gaming, they do have the processing power for browsing, writing, e-mail, etc., and over the next few decades I think separate machines for gaming and general computing will no longer make sense, or be economically competitive.



    And, of course, you can already run full versions of linux on your Xbox: http://www.xbox-linux.org/




    Oh come on now. PDAs, cellphones, and iPods also have the processing power for browsing, writing, e-mail, etc. Does that mean a separate machine for general computing doesn't make sense?



    If they're going to put a fuckin' OS on a console why not just write the games for *existing* OSs/computers.



    To me, gaming consoles make no sense when computers already exist. *NOT* the other way around like you're suggesting.



    I think it would be a bigger feat to turn a console into a computer knowing that they don't ship with keyboards and that you normally have to hook 'em up to low rez TVs and they don't have fancy gizmo ports to extend the 'computing' experience with things such as iSights, multiple monitors, printers, DV cams, etc.



    Are consoles going to start making their way out of the TV/Living Room and into other rooms with phone jacks and where high rez monitors are present? If so, why not scrap the console idea altogether and agree to produce games for a specific computer spec?



    If people only care about games, browsing the net and e-mail/IM. Then, yeah, general computing is dead.
  • Reply 29 of 38
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    Oh come on now. PDAs, cellphones, and iPods also have the processing power for browsing, writing, e-mail, etc. Does that mean a separate machine for general computing doesn't make sense?



    No it does not mean that. There's room for both.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    If they're going to put a fuckin' OS on a console why not just write the games for *existing* OSs for computers.



    Could it be because, oh, they want to make a profit selling dev kits, games, programs and make their console more appealing to a larger number of people?
  • Reply 30 of 38
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by monkeyastronaut

    No it does not mean that. There's room for both.







    Could it be because, oh, they want to make a profit selling dev kits, games, programs and make their console more appealing to a larger number of people?




    Possibly...but nobody's going to bite into the idea of consoles for general computing simply because:



    1) They don't ship with keyboards or mouse

    2) They hook to TVs by default, not monitors

    3) You can't make use of some peripherals such as printers, high rez webcams, DV cameras

    4) They're not expandable/upgradeable



    On the other hand, consoles have been adding things that are strangely looking PCish, such as hard drives and such.



    If consoles want to become computers and do everything a computer can do...so be it. But they won't be consoles anymore. They will become proprietary Nintendo *computers*, Sony *computers* and MS *computers*. Like Macs are proprietary Apple computers.



    Those computers will likely just be feature-frozen computers that won't see any updates/upgrades for a few years until a new one comes out. Will people accept this? If they do, then, good for Nintendo, Sony and MS. If they don't, traditional computers will live on.
  • Reply 31 of 38
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    Possibly...but nobody's going to bite into the idea of consoles for general computing simply because:



    1) They don't ship with keyboards or mouse

    2) They hook to TVs by default, not monitors

    3) You can't make use of some peripherals such as printers, high rez webcams, DV cameras

    4) They're not expandable/upgradeable



    On the other hand, consoles have been adding things that are strangely looking PCish, such as hard drives and such.



    If consoles want to become computers and do everything a computer can do...so be it. But they won't be consoles anymore. They will become proprietary Nintendo *computers*, Sony *computers* and MS *computers*. Like Macs are proprietary Apple computers.



    Those computers will likely just be feature-frozen computers that won't see any updates/upgrades for a few years until a new one comes out. Will people accept this? If they do, then, good for Nintendo, Sony and MS. If they don't, traditional computers will live on.




    True. Totally agree. It's innevitable that lines will continue to blur in the upcoming years. Consoles now have online gaming services, usb ports, ethernet ports, etc. But it's safe to say they're very different markets and I'd never attempt to but a PC to replace my Xbox and viceversa.
  • Reply 32 of 38
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    1) They don't ship with keyboards or mouse

    2) They hook to TVs by default, not monitors

    3) You can't make use of some peripherals such as printers, high rez webcams, DV cameras

    4) They're not expandable/upgradeable




    1. Neither does the mini, which is supposedly selling well.

    2. That I'll agree with. Work and TVs, especially non-HD TVs just don't go.

    3. The next generation has plenty of USB ports to support such things.

    4. So what? They're a stable platform that people know to design to. I think people seriously overestimate just how many people upgrade after the initial purchase.



    About the only reason consoles won't take over personal computing is because it seems far more appropriate to actually do work at a desk and not on a couch while looking at a low res screen. Then again how many people use laptops on their couch?



    They may succeed as media centres but I seriously doubt it. Psychology is probably their biggest barrier beyond everything.
  • Reply 33 of 38
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,412member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Telomar

    1. Neither does the mini, which is supposedly selling well.

    2. That I'll agree with. Work and TVs, especially non-HD TVs just don't go.

    3. The next generation has plenty of USB ports to support such things.

    4. So what? They're a stable platform that people know to design to. I think people seriously overestimate just how many people upgrade after the initial purchase.



    About the only reason consoles won't take over personal computing is because it seems far more appropriate to actually do work at a desk and not on a couch while looking at a low res screen. Then again how many people use laptops on their couch?



    5. They may succeed as media centres but I seriously doubt it. Psychology is probably their biggest barrier beyond everything.




    1. They don't yet, and you can always buy your own USB devices or use the ones you already have for your Mac/PC.

    2. HDTV changes this considerably -- the consoles have support for resolutions as high as you find in most computer monitors. They even use a variant on the same DVI interface.

    3. No FireWire, unfortunately, but plenty of USB and networking.

    4. What a lot of computer enthusiasts are completely blind to is that it is the customizable/modifiable/expandable PC that is the niche market. Fixed platform machines which you just take home and plug in are far more attractive to the consumer than monkeying around with a PC or even a Mac. The two are going to co-exist but the PC is going to lose a lot of customers to the console(s) which can successfully expand their market beyond games. This hasn't happened before, but PS3/X360 are the first machines that truly support HDTV (and HDTV is finally becoming common) and have tons of RAM and I/O capabilities.

    5. Out-of-the-box capability is the biggest barrier. Psychology can be overcome with marketing. If you brought the thing home, plugged it in, turned it on and presto! it worked they would clean the floor with existing media center solutions. This is primarily a software issue, although the lack of a clear input standard is problematic -- I wish they had a FireWire interface to plug into cableboxes with and then MS and/or Sony would put their weight behind making that a universal standard.





    Quote:

    ...dual-boot...



    I really don't see a significant number of Mac users going to a dual-boot system. Why would you want to have to reboot your machine every time you wanted to switch back and forth? I have two seperate machines and I don't even want to turn the PC on, much less having to shut down the Mac. No, a much more likely scenario is that somebody (perhaps MS itself with VirtualPC) provides a Windows compatibility box running in MacOSX x86. This would let Windows programs run at full speed under MacOS X, and is the single biggest threat to the development of Mac-native software going forward.
  • Reply 34 of 38
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Programmer

    I really don't see a significant number of Mac users going to a dual-boot system. Why would you want to have to reboot your machine every time you wanted to switch back and forth? I have two seperate machines and I don't even want to turn the PC on, much less having to shut down the Mac. No, a much more likely scenario is that somebody (perhaps MS itself with VirtualPC) provides a Windows compatibility box running in MacOSX x86. This would let Windows programs run at full speed under MacOS X, and is the single biggest threat to the development of Mac-native software going forward. [/B]



    Then you and others probably won't like the idea of switching between 'games' on a console and Linux/OSX/Windows (whichever gets installed on the console).
  • Reply 35 of 38
    kim kap solkim kap sol Posts: 2,987member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Programmer

    5. Out-of-the-box capability is the biggest barrier. Psychology can be overcome with marketing. If you brought the thing home, plugged it in, turned it on and presto! it worked they would clean the floor with existing media center solutions. This is primarily a software issue, although the lack of a clear input standard is problematic -- I wish they had a FireWire interface to plug into cableboxes with and then MS and/or Sony would put their weight behind making that a universal standard.





    It's probably deeper than that because Apple has been making, out-of-the-box computers for years and it hasn't 'cleaned the floor' according to 95% of the population.



    What I find funny is this: If consoles become computers, they won't be consoles anymore. They'll be computers. And they'll never be able to sell in the range of 200-400 because of all the computer components in them. And since they are computers that won't get a refresh for years...buying one 3 years after launch would be like buying a 3 year old computer. If they do get refreshes, they'll be exactly like current computers and game developers will be faced with the same problem they have on the PC.



    I don't understand what the point would be for a console to become a PC (other than add to the total of proprietary computers out there (which might break Microsoft's dominance and force developers to write portable code.)



    Mac OS, Windows, Linux, NintendOS, PlayStatiOS, and, uh, WinCE. Should be fun I guess.
  • Reply 36 of 38
    brendonbrendon Posts: 642member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    It's probably deeper than that because Apple has been making, out-of-the-box computers for years and it hasn't 'cleaned the floor' according to 95% of the population.



    What I find funny is this: If consoles become computers, they won't be consoles anymore. They'll be computers. And they'll never be able to sell in the range of 200-400 because of all the computer components in them. And since they are computers that won't get a refresh for years...buying one 3 years after launch would be like buying a 3 year old computer. If they do get refreshes, they'll be exactly like current computers and game developers will be faced with the same problem they have on the PC.



    I don't understand what the point would be for a console to become a PC (other than add to the total of proprietary computers out there (which might break Microsoft's dominance and force developers to write portable code.)



    Mac OS, Windows, Linux, NintendOS, PlayStatiOS, and, uh, WinCE. Should be fun I guess.




    PC would not be correct, internet applaince would be more correct, internet/entertainment applaince would be even more correct. What has happened is that gaming consoles have gotten so powerful that you can play games across the internet and talk to your gaming friends as well. With a internet gaming service, that could hold your e-mail, not difficult to add, and adding a browser to the console you could have internet service and e-mail. Not the killer app but little by little adding to the console what people usually buy computers for. With a good DVD player and interface entertainment device comes into play, add a hard drive and a movie down load service and it is taking yet more services and rolling them into the console. I doubt that people will be using this to write novels on or to edit movies, but internet and e-mail are services that could be added and who cares how fast the hardware is if that is all it is being used for?
  • Reply 37 of 38


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  • Reply 38 of 38


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