Apple's 'ionic wind generator' may one day replace mechanical computer fans

2»

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    z3r0 wrote: »
    So in other words...
    Current fans are too thick, noisy and consume too much power and Apple is trying to fix that.

    In the new MBPs what other moving parts are there besides the fan?
  • Reply 22 of 38
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    drblank wrote: »
    Most companies in the technology sector are design and marketing companies.  Microsoft is a prime example, so is Dell, so is HP, so are most companies that have their products assembled in other countries.  Most clothing companies are design and marketing companies.

    It's a popular business model due to labor costs in other countries.  It's how a LOT of businesses are done now.

    Obviously, this is an idea that they think might be used in a part of their computer design.  Are you an engineer that has tested this design to come up with your conclusion that it's a fake idea? Or are you just doing it because you didn't think of it?  I'm not sure of your motives.

    Actually, I agree with you. I left off the /s sarcasm tag (thanks Ireland) to my comment, sorry. It was 2 a.m., when you kind of feel ironic (thanks enzos) about everything, and I thought everyone would see it the same way.

    Big mistake. Text just doesn't convey tone or mood very well. I was making fun of those who say Apple doesn't invent anything, they just repackage the ideas of others. Such a persistent meme—you still see it everywhere, mostly in non-Apple forums. I'd like to see it go away for another reason: repackaging has been shown by Apple to be a high art in itself. I can't say enough about what they've been doing with aluminum as a "pacaging material." They're replacing plastic is what they're doing.

    But clearly they do a fair amount of inventing as well. There were new hints about R&D when they made Bob Mansfield head of Technology. Is this a new concept for Apple about themselves? What are they going to do with that research facility in Israel. And so on.
  • Reply 23 of 38


    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

    In the new MBPs what other moving parts are there besides the fan?


     


    The hinge, which Apple's slowly removing via the iPad.

  • Reply 24 of 38
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,509member
    z3r0 wrote: »
    So in other words...
    Current fans are too thick, noisy and consume too much power and Apple is trying to fix that.
    solipsismx wrote: »
    In the new MBPs what other moving parts are there besides the fan?
    The hinge, which Apple's slowly removing via the iPad.


    A brilliant chain of reasoning in three parts, starting with an ironic remark.

    Edit: I'm not being sarcastic.
  • Reply 25 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    The hinge, which Apple's slowly removing via the iPad.

    You're thinking outside the box, — well, on the box — whereas I was thinking inside the box. There are also the keyboard keys and trackpad that have moving parts. Like the Home Button on iDevices I hope these are never removed.
  • Reply 26 of 38


    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

    There are also the keyboard keys and trackpad that have moving parts. Like the Home Button on iDevices I hope these are never removed.


     


    I believe that Apple products will always support physical keyboards, but not that they'll always ship with them.

  • Reply 27 of 38


    There used to be the little button to see how much battery was left without turning on the machine, LEDs through tiny holes (but that is another article)

  • Reply 28 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Nathillien View Post


    At first glance I read:


    Iconic Wind Generator


    Say what?


    Aha image


     


    Anyways. Wow, controlling charged particles with EM field image what an invention.



     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post





    Apparently you just glanced at the entire story.




    I think the only part of this that is new is the electro-magnetic control mechanism. Various companies have demonstrated passive ion cooling in laptops and other devices for years now.


    Here's a really good article from 2009 about the tech.


    http://www.technologyreview.com/news/413519/a-laptop-cooled-with-ionic-wind/

  • Reply 29 of 38
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,213moderator
    It would be good if they could figure out a way to convert wasted heat back into electricity efficiently. There must be a way to improve the efficiency beyond 15-20%:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120919135310.htm

    Think if they could get even 50% of the CPU heat back into electricity to power it.

    I like the idea of using fanless airflow too as long as it's powerful enough and doesn't waste a lot of electricity and it will definitely be of use in mobile devices where a fan doesn't make sense.
  • Reply 30 of 38
    z3r0z3r0 Posts: 229member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    I believe that Apple products will always support physical keyboards, but not that they'll always ship with them.



     


    Only thing that could be considered a moving part after that are the speakers. Though I haven't seen anything that can produce sound without vibrations.


     


    Maybe electrical impulses to the brain is the solution image


     


    Edit: Hmm... Google pulls up a thermophone might be something to look into http://qedradiation.scienceblog.com/33137/thermophones-produce-sound-without-vibration/


     


    To be more precise thermoacoustic:


     


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igHmU7yLy5w


     


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-fKHf4MjnM

  • Reply 31 of 38
    kolchakkolchak Posts: 1,398member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MACTSW View Post


    How does this differ from the Dyson fan? Presumably there must be something, in order to get a patent.



     


    The Dyson fan does actually have blades. They're just hidden inside the base and the air blown out through a groove in the circular ring, which entrains air in the center of the ring.


     


    I don't think ionic "fans" are as efficient at moving air per watt as regular fans. I wish Apple would look into piezoelectric fans. They've existed for about four decades and have been known as more efficient than standard electromagnetic fans.

  • Reply 32 of 38
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,788member


    This will come in handy when Apple releases their quad-core 64-bit ARM-based MacBook Air.


    Performance-tuned ARM SoCs will probably run hotter than the low-power versions in iOS devices.

  • Reply 33 of 38
    I remember I had one of those Sharper Image 'Ionic Breeze' air purifiers. The ionized air destroyed photos printed out by my inkjet printer. I hear it's also what HP uses to torture-test ink printouts for rapid aging tests.
  • Reply 34 of 38
    Those Ionic Breeze air purifiers DID produce ozone:

    http://www.ehow.com/about_5598114_ionic-breeze-ozone-dangers.html
  • Reply 35 of 38
    My god, without this device they'd have to use heat pipes for passive cooling, and that would be... sensible. Wait, what's the point exactly?
  • Reply 36 of 38
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Marvin wrote: »
    It would be good if they could figure out a way to convert wasted heat back into electricity efficiently. There must be a way to improve the efficiency beyond 15-20%:
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120919135310.htm
    Think if they could get even 50% of the CPU heat back into electricity to power it.
    I like the idea of using fanless airflow too as long as it's powerful enough and doesn't waste a lot of electricity and it will definitely be of use in mobile devices where a fan doesn't make sense.

    You start running into a thermodynamic problem pretty quickly. Even at 100 C, you can't possibly recover 50% of the energy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_efficiency
  • Reply 37 of 38
    Very misleading article really. Yes an ionic solution allows you to move air where it is required however a well designed computer has predictable cooling requirements so this feature is slightly unnecessary.

    As for much of the rest of the article it is based on fairly poor science - we aren't likely to see high voltage sources in smartphones due to space restrictions, not to mention that given smartphone chipsets are tending towards lower and lower power ratings the cooling requirements step down too. Finally the boundary layer section is misleading in that it implies that boundary layers are not always present in a moving flow (which they are) and that this is the only way to achieve a turbulent boundary layer (which it isn't).
  • Reply 38 of 38
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,213moderator
    jragosta wrote:
    You start running into a thermodynamic problem pretty quickly. Even at 100 C, you can't possibly recover 50% of the energy:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_efficiency

    The heat that comes from a CPU is very localised and is directly transferred into a heatsink that is attached using thermal paste. Surely they can at least have some sort of thermovoltaic device in the heatsink that generates electricity. The efficiency should be down to getting a material to convert that heat into electricity as close to the CPU as possible.

    There seems to be a new type of fan coming out that could improve cooling for desktop systems at least:

    http://hexus.net/tech/news/cooling/41489-spinning-sandia-cpu-cooler-30-times-efficient/

    I like the idea of having no mechanical parts though.
Sign In or Register to comment.