Windows 8 sales fall short of Microsoft's internal projections

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  • Reply 81 of 187
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post





    Why? I'm an Apple convert due to my long history wih Microsoft's OS offerings, and I'm poor. Very poor.


     

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    You mean, you are now, thanks to your Apple conversion...


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  • Reply 82 of 187
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


     


    I bet you have a refrigerator full of Hostess Twinkies too.  image



     

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    Since when do twinkies need to be refrigerated?


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  • Reply 83 of 187
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post




    With Metro (or whatever confused label MS is using for it now), and this whole jumbled, confused and misguided Windows 8 paradigm, MS has shown very clearly and beyond any doubt, that the future of personal computing belongs to their leaner, meaner, and definitely faster competitors, like Apple. MS has handed it to them on a silver platter. 


     


    It's not because they don't have any talent. It isn't because they don't have resources. It isn't because they don't have any contact with the outside world. 


     


    It's because a CLOWN has been running the circus there for over 10 years.



     

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    It is debatable how mean Apple is, but lean they are not. Note that at this point they could easily buy a controlling interest in MS>


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  • Reply 84 of 187
    igrivigriv Posts: 1,177member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


    Windows legacy compatibility is a critical infrastructure component for our accounting department so I am just buying insurance that I have a couple extra licenses to hold me over in the event that Microsoft screws the pooch on this OS launch. Hostess Twinkies on the other hand are more obnoxious than any version of Windows by a huge margin. They are just disgusting. I can honestly say I have never eaten any Hostess product including Wonder bread. I'm a natural foods guy all the way.



     

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    Just because they are petroleum based does not mean Twinkies are not MIGHTY tasty.


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  • Reply 85 of 187
    "Microsoft doesn't believe sales have been affected by the software itself. Instead, the thinking in Redmond, Wash., is said to be that PC makers have offered 'lackluster' designs, along with limited availability."

    This begs the question of Microsoft:
    Is this just math you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better or is this real?

    This bumbling response of blame-laying, deflection and denial for self-inflicted failure sounds familiar. It's what happens when an organization drinks so much of its own Kool-Aid that they're fully invested in their self-delusional model of the real world.

    Microsoft had the arrogance to develop a desktop OS that throws 20 years of collective user conditioning in OS GUI behavior out the window, and they're shocked -- shocked! -- to find that the marketplace's response is mass befuddlement and corporate resistance to adoption.

    Then they stubbornly double-down on their it's-not-us-it's-you arrogance by spouting preposterous babble like this.

    The ironic thing is, had they simply added an autohide Windows button to the interface that could be enabled or disabled by the user, people would have embraced the new Windows 8 UI model with gusto. Many users would never even touch the Windows button again -- just knowing in the back of their minds that it was available would give users enough psychological confidence to abandon it.
  • Reply 86 of 187
    It's the law of diminishing returns. If you are using Windows 7 and are happy, why upgrade to 8? Seems the techies like to believe everyone wants the latest and greatest, but with enterprise, that is not the case. The BYOD (bring your own device) is really catching on, and more people prefer Apple products than Mr Softie's.
  • Reply 87 of 187
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member


    Microsoft is right, a lot of the devices launched around Windows 8 are confusing. But it's their fault too: an OS that is half tablet and half desktop isn't going to be much fun on either device. It needs a big switch where you can switch to totally desktop mode or totally tablet mode.

  • Reply 88 of 187
    rayzrayz Posts: 814member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by strobe View Post


     


    The irony is so thick you could stick a spoon in it. 


     


    You're living in la-la land. 


     


    MS has far greater market penetration than Apple does, and in the most important ways:


     


    • Xbox 360. It isn't just a game console and has found its way into more homes than iOS devices. More iOS devices have been sold in total, but a lot of those have been thrown away and people buy more than one. They also aren't connected to TVs. 


     


    • Microsoft doesn't treat pro customers like sh*t. Microsoft supports enterprise, government, and professionals. Apple has become focused on consumer products to the point of complete abandonment of all others. It's been making money for them in the short term, but consumers are the most fickle and will drop iOS in a heartbeat when something cheaper comes along that's almost as good. That could easily happen. 


     


    People give MS a lot of crap as I often do for their crap products and lack of vision, but MS is very good at providing solutions and extracting revenue. Apple's position, in my opinion, is far more tenuous. My division here is where they make money:


     


     


    Windows and Windows Live

    Revenue: $19,024,000,000

    Operating Income: $12,281,000,000


    Business (Office, Exchange, SharePoint)

    Revenue: $22,186,000,000

    Operating income: $14,124,000,000


    Server and Tools (Windows Server, Microsoft SQL, Visual Studio)

    Revenue: $17,096,000,000

    Operating Income: $6,608,000,000


    Entertainment and Devices (XBox 360/LIVE, Windows Phone)

    Revenue: $8,913,000,000

    Operating income: $1,324,000,000


    Online Services (Bing, MSN, Hotmail)

    Revenue: $2,528,000,000

    Operating income: $-2,557,000,000



     


    Those are some nice number. A few things to bear in mind:


     


    1/. The XBox division still hasn't broken even on the amount of cash poured into it over the years. 


     


    2/. Microsoft has sold 70million XBox360 consoles in total. Apple total sales of iOS devices are near 400million. Even if you could prove your assertion that 'a lot' of IOS device have been thrown away, the chances are that the 'thrower' will buy a new iOS device to replace it. 


     


    3/. In the last quarter, Apple sold more AppleTV units than Microsoft sold XBoxes, an increase of 170%.  Not bad for a 'beloved hobby'.


     


    4/. Apple's iOS stuff alone makes more money than the whole of Microsoft.

  • Reply 89 of 187
    I just bought my girlfriend an Apple TV, and she found it far more usable than her Xbox. Lets hope Apple can get some apps on that pronto.
  • Reply 90 of 187
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    vipertom wrote: »
    It's the law of diminishing returns. If you are using Windows 7 and are happy, why upgrade to 8? Seems the techies like to believe everyone wants the latest and greatest, but with enterprise, that is not the case. The BYOD (bring your own device) is really catching on, and more people prefer Apple products than Mr Softie's.

    I think that's the case - for the entire industry - and I've said so a number of times in recent months.

    Back in the 90s, your computer was never fast enough. Even if you bought the latest, fire breathing monster, the software brought it to its knees. And even if your computer was 'fast enough' to keep you happy, all it took was one round of software upgrades and it crawled. Added to that was the fact that people were regularly doing new things with their computers. First, it was photo editing. Then video editing. These demanded regular increases in computer power.

    Today, most people are not using all of their computers' power - particularly in the corporate world. Even my 5 year old MacBook Pro is fast enough 95% of the time and there's little incentive to upgrade for most people. Outside of a few geeks, upgrading is a pain so average people are not eager to do so without a good reason. Until there's some new application or software that demands far more power than the computers people are using, the market is likely to remain slow.

    The exception, of course, is the tiny number of people who are power gamers and want every ounce of power they can get and a very small number of professionals who need massive power. But the numbers are far too low to keep the market happy.

    The result is a PC market that has been flat or declining for some time now. Even Apple - which leads the industry in growth rates - has seen sales increases drop from previous levels.

    Message to the entire industry:
    If you want to sell more computers, give us a reason to buy. Simply "faster than the previous version" is no longer compelling.
  • Reply 91 of 187

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


     


    ???? ?? ?? ????? ???? ??????



     


    I suppose you think anyone can speak Aramaic?

  • Reply 92 of 187

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    I quite like the Zune 2.0 UI. I think WinPh7 UI was great. I love that were able to make the WinNT kernel work on x86, x86_64 and ARM, even at the core of WinPh8. These are not reasons to pooh-pooh MS. I think MS has failed because they tried to make Windows 8 do everything at once resulting in a Swiss Army knife which technically has many tools yet none of them are very good. I blame Ballmer for giving Sinofsky the foolish and impossible task of trying to make Windows be everything to everyone in both the UI, UX and nomenclature (unless of course that was his idea, then I blame Sinofsky).


     


    This is a bit unfair. The point of a Swiss army knife is that the individual tools are generally quite good. Microsoft has produced a US army knife.

  • Reply 93 of 187
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    Survey Says: 7% (not 10%) will migrate to OSX or iOS

    But your premise otherwise works... that's a shit-ton of users. The projection is about 70 million new Apple iDevices & iComputers in the next 6 weeks.

    Six weeks? Did the survey find they're all going to go rush and buy new machines real soon?

    mstone wrote: »
    Good to know for the future. I always build my own machines from bare iron so I am used to having the install media that I intend on using.

    No problem. I need to replace an old Windows laptop, that needs to still be Windows, so I started looking around to find my options.

    dysamoria wrote: »
    Why? I'm an Apple convert due to my long history wih Microsoft's OS offerings, and I'm poor. Very poor.

    First, typical buyers ? all buyers. There are plenty of buyers with money that buy Windows machines for compatibility reasons (business, games, etc.) or personal preference, but Apple has taken the oxygen out of the high end market.

    I'd say I'm a former Windows user, but that's not totally true yet. I still use Windows on my Mac, plus I have a laser engraving machine that won't run from Mac OS, so an old Windows laptop runs that pretty well, or at least did, I'm considering upgrading it because it's old enough to give me troubles.

    But I think the point remains is that if you're a consumer buying a computer on price, you're buying a Windows computer. If the bottom half of the budget computer buyers drop out of the game because of economic uncertainty, that doesn't hurt Apple so much because Apple doesn't compete there.
  • Reply 94 of 187

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by pfisher View Post




    I disagree. Win 7 is pretty good. Maybe needs more polish all the way through, but its good and better than OS X in some ways. MS does get UI.


     


    I just installed Win 8 on my MacBook Pro. I like the interface. I like the look. But it is tricky navigating around. They need to work on that, but otherwise, Win 8 is fine and is refreshing to look at instead of OS X from time to time.


     


    Apple is very slow to adapt. Look at iOS. So slow. Google is running circles around Apple (and catching up/or exceeding in some areas). BTW, I prefer and love my iPhone 4S and can't wait for iPhone 5/6. I looked at Windows phone, but the hardware - nothing beats the iPhone now. And I hear the Windows phone is heavy partially due to coils for the inductive charging.


     


    These are not dud products.





    MG Siegler just have a review of the slate. Not good. Not good. Not good.

  • Reply 95 of 187
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    philipm wrote: »
    This is a bit unfair. The point of a Swiss army knife is that the individual tools are generally quite good. Microsoft has produced a US army knife.

    How so?

    Would you take the saw on a SAK over a dedicated tool for cutting down trees or branches? I wouldn't.
    Would you take the fish scaler on the SAK over a dedicated tool? I wouldn't.
    Would you take the screwdriver on a SAK over set of standard and Phillip screwdrivers? I wouldn't.
    Would you use take the scissors in the SAK over a fullsized scissors for pretty much any project? I wouldn't.

    I just can't imagine anyone saying I don't need dedicated tools for a specific job because I own a SAK. Well, I said that, but in me defense I was 9yo and thought the SAK was the coolest thing ever.
  • Reply 96 of 187
    xsuxsu Posts: 401member
    Window 8's new interface is a confusing mess.
  • Reply 97 of 187
    tjwaltjwal Posts: 404member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    As for PCs, those who have $1000 to spend are looking at Macs. Apple's captured the top-tier of the market. Macs also dominate in consumer satisfaction year after year, often by a very wide margin. 



    meh


     


    If they like their shiny toys then they might get a mac.  If they want computing horsepower then you get a lot more bang for your buck with a Win machine.


    Don't get me wrong, I like Apples products  but with the exception of the Air, I wouldn't buy nor recommend their computers.  I think 90% of the market agrees with me.  Of course I do have to put up with Windows.

  • Reply 98 of 187
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,951member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    How so?
    Would you take the saw on a SAK over a dedicated tool for cutting down trees or branches? I wouldn't.
    Would you take the fish scaler on the SAK over a dedicated tool? I wouldn't.
    Would you take the screwdriver on a SAK over set of standard and Phillip screwdrivers? I wouldn't.
    Would you use take the scissors in the SAK over a fullsized scissors for pretty much any project? I wouldn't.
    I just can't imagine anyone saying I don't need dedicated tools for a specific job because I own a SAK. Well, I said that, but in me defense I was 9yo and thought the SAK was the coolest thing ever.

    I think I'm taking it further off topic, but I don't know if the metaphor works for tablet or laptop computers. It does work well for phones though, because people actually do that. There are better flashlights, but the phone does well enough. There are better cameras, but the phone works well enough such that the compact camera market is suffering. There are better machines to do email and web browsing with, but they use their phone because it's easier to carry with them. It's a single device that does everything, even if it's not as nice as using the ideal tool, but no one wants to carry around ten ideal tools when a single tool does the job well enough.
  • Reply 99 of 187
    tjwal wrote: »
    meh

    If they like their shiny toys then they might get a mac.  If they want computing horsepower then you get a lot more bang for your buck with a Win machine.
    Don't get me wrong, I like Apples products  but with the exception of the Air, I wouldn't buy nor recommend their computers.  I think 90% of the market agrees with me.  Of course I do have to put up with Windows.

    A quick funny story of computing horsepower, a non-profit anti-child porn group needed a super computer to break passwords on websites, the computer they needed was $8000, they instead linked up 4 PS3s and got the horsepower they needed for much cheaper.
  • Reply 100 of 187

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by philipm View Post


     


    This is a bit unfair. The point of a Swiss army knife is that the individual tools are generally quite good. Microsoft has produced a US army knife.



     


    Microsoft is more like a plastic scissor than a Swiss army knife when compared with any real POSIX OS. 

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