ToS and Posted Rules: What to do?

Posted:
in Feedback edited January 2014




Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





His post is no different than those of the Anti-Apple Brigade in this regard, and as such would probably be infraction-worthy under a strict reading of the rules. 


 



Can you please post a link to the page that spells out the rules for the forum?


 


Edit:  I found it.


http://forums.appleinsider.com/a/terms-of-service


 


Now for the strict reading and such...image

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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

    Originally Posted by Soulbearer View Post

    Here in US the patent and court system is brokenapple started this crusade against everyone that brings true innovation to the smartphone industry, so I make Apple responsible of the anti-apple trend generated because of this.


     


    Quote:


    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

    Post is deleted, left it here as an example of what never to post. The whole thing is pure FUD, but the bold are examples straight from my List. Hilarious.


     


    His post is no different than those of the Anti-Apple Brigade in this regard, and as such would probably be infraction-worthy under a strict reading of the rules. 



     


    Apple do appear to be engaging in law suits with all the major phone makers, HTC, Motorola, Samsung… Some cases are defensive & some cases Apple initiated.


     


    I'm have a hard time seeing how Soulbearer's opinion is against the forum rules, it is full of sweeping generalisations, but it is an opinion nontheless. 


     



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Yes. Apple probably can. Apple knows its right, whereas Samsung is just, well, copying everything Apple does… by suing back. Regardless of the suit's legality.




     


    Your next statement is just as contentious and general as the one that Soulbearer made (has Samsung copied everything Apple does), accept you are bashing Samsung, not Apple.


     


    Perhaps there was other content in the comment that pushed it over the limit (which I didn't see), but now it is unclear.


    I know nothing is black & white, so please can you clarify why generalising against Samsung is OK, but generalising against Apple is not OK?

  • Reply 2 of 38
    droid wrote: »
    Your next statement is just as contentious and general as the one that Soulbearer made (has Samsung copied everything Apple does), accept you are bashing Samsung, not Apple.

    No, his comment is clearly trolling. It's like if I said to someone here, "In my opinion your mother is a whore," would you think I was really just expressing an opinion or trying to evoke an emotional reaction by such a pathetic comment? I hope the latter. That's what Soulbearer is doing.
  • Reply 3 of 38
    solipsismx wrote: »
    No, his comment is clearly trolling. It's like if I said to someone here, "In my opinion your mother is a whore," would you think I was really just expressing an opinion or trying to evoke an emotional reaction by such a pathetic comment? I hope the latter. That's what Soulbearer is doing.

    Regardless, what is and isn't trolling and what the rules are etc are not what this thread is about. Polite behavior in a forum is that you stick to the topic and take all off topic out of the thread to an appropriate place. Sad part is that a troll was more on topic even with his FUD and it was a moderator that went off topic when he should be the one keeping things in check.

    This is not the first time this has happened and I know it won't be the last which is why I still wish there was a way to ignore posts and the replies to it so I can just erase out such sub threads
  • Reply 4 of 38
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Post is deleted, left it here as an example of what never to post. The whole thing is pure FUD, but the bold are examples straight from my List. Hilarious.



     


    In my opinion you should follow the rules. I'm fine with you deleting posts as you see fit as you are authorized to by AI, but please do not claim that the post was against the rules when instead it was simply on your list of trolling generalizations. Your List is not the rules. Furthermore I think it would be more appropriate for you to tone your overall rabid fanaticism down a couple notches. It is one thing for a regular poster to be rude and abrasive because we can put them on the ignore list however as a moderator regular members can not ignore your raving insults.


     




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    No, his comment is clearly trolling. It's like if I said to someone here, "In my opinion your mother is a whore," would you think I was really just expressing an opinion or trying to evoke an emotional reaction by such a pathetic comment? I hope the latter. That's what Soulbearer is doing.


     



    This remark if actually posted would be the only remark in this thread actually against the terms of service as it is sexual in nature. People get infractions or banned for things that are merely the opinion of the moderator and are not actually against the rules. I once got an infraction for lashing out at TS by suggesting he was most likely a basement dweller with no friends. Could be construed as a personal attack I suppose, however, personal attacks per se are not against the rules unless they are vulgar or threatening. 

  • Reply 5 of 38
    mstone wrote: »
    This remark if actually posted would be the only remark in this thread actually against the terms of service as it is sexual in nature. People get infractions or banned for things that are merely the opinion of the moderator and are not actually against the rules. I once got an infraction for lashing out at TS by suggesting he was most likely a basement dweller with no friends. Could be construed as a personal attack I suppose, however, personal attacks per se are not against the rules unless they are vulgar or threatening. 

    1) That is a personal attack because you directed it at the person. It's like saying a poster is stupid is an ad hominem, but saying that you think a post is stupid has a different focus.

    2) "To debase oneself by doing something for unworthy motives, typically to make money" can also be used in terms like consumer whore. That is the original meaning people think of, but if you examine the etymology you actually get something very different. ORIGIN late Old English h?re, of Germanic origin; related to Dutch hoer and German Hure, from an Indo-European root shared by Latin carus ‘dear.’ Not that I had any such focus in my example. In fact, I wasn't thinking of anything sexual at all. More comedic than anything else. See SNL Jeopardy skit.
  • Reply 6 of 38
    charlituna wrote: »
    Regardless, what is and isn't trolling and what the rules are etc are not what this thread is about. Polite behavior in a forum is that you stick to the topic and take all off topic out of the thread to an appropriate place. Sad part is that a troll was more on topic even with his FUD and it was a moderator that went off topic when he should be the one keeping things in check.
    This is not the first time this has happened and I know it won't be the last which is why I still wish there was a way to ignore posts and the replies to it so I can just erase out such sub threads

    I can see that PoV. I doubt I would have even noticed the poster if not for TS deleting it and then quoting what he deleting. Sometimes trollish comments are so obvious in the way they are formatted that I'll naturally skip them.
  • Reply 7 of 38
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post




     

    1) That is a personal attack because you directed it at the person. It's like saying a poster is stupid is an ad hominem, but saying that you think a post is stupid has a different focus.

     


    I still don't see anything in the rules about personal attacks being prohibited. Only vulgar or threatening posts are against the rules as they currently read.

  • Reply 8 of 38
    mstone wrote: »
    I still don't see anything in the rules about personal attacks being prohibited. Only vulgar or threatening posts are against the rules as they currently read.

    Ah, I see your point. I'm pretty sure the ToS used to be considerably more extensive. I guess ad hominem attacks are no longer part of them.

    I could argue that it would fall under hateful if you make such a comment but I'd still expect the ToS to cover that specifically if they thought it was necessary.
  • Reply 9 of 38
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    Ah, I see your point. I'm pretty sure the ToS used to be considerably more extensive. I guess ad hominem attacks are no longer part of them.



    I could argue that it would fall under hateful if you make such a comment but I'd still expect the ToS to cover that specifically if they thought it was necessary.


    No, the terms of service are the same as they have been as long as I have been here. The problem with making trolling or ad hominem attacks prohibited is that there is almost no way to actually define them. People use vulgar language around here all the time with no consequence however a single anti-Apple post will draw the wrath of TS.


     


    I think the term hateful would be the same as it is used in law such as a hate crime. Like a racial slur. 

  • Reply 10 of 38


    THIS IS NOW A THREAD ABOUT TROLLING IN A THREAD...


     


    Any further discussion about the initially posted subject will result in a perma-ban.

  • Reply 11 of 38


    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

    People use vulgar language around here all the time with no consequence…


     


    That'd be because it isn't banned. Profanity isn't against the rules, however I feel about it (put simply, I receive it poorly), so it's fine. 


     


    The site's feelings on profanity is outlined pretty well in the rules. If you wish it restricted further, start a thread with a poll in the Feedback subforum.


     


    People NEVER actually do this when I recommend it, which tells me that they don't really give a crap about the things they're saying. What, do they think we won't listen? Of course we'll listen. I'd start half the threads I recommend myself if it weren't for the fact that they should probably come from a regular user.


     



    Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post

    THIS IS NOW A THREAD ABOUT TROLLING IN A THREAD...


     


    Any further discussion about the initially posted subject will result in a perma-ban.



     


    Now come the posts ostensibly talking about trolling but subtly trying to stick in references to the lawsuit and either Apple or Samsung. And we'll have invented a brand new way of discussing things and have to come up with a name for what to call legitimate discussion when it's inserted into a trolling thread… image

  • Reply 12 of 38
    THIS IS NOW A THREAD ABOUT TROLLING IN A THREAD...

    Any further discussion about the initially posted subject will result in a perma-ban.

    Great idea, overly zealous moderation started it, more moderation can fix it!
  • Reply 13 of 38


    Originally Posted by Fix moderators View Post

    Great idea, overly zealous moderation started it, more moderation can fix it!


     


    Thanks for adding to my list of e-mail services to ban on sight.

  • Reply 14 of 38
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

    People use vulgar language around here all the time with no consequence…


     


    That'd be because it isn't banned. Profanity isn't against the rules, however I feel about it (put simply, I receive it poorly), so it's fine. 



    Perhaps you should reread the rules, and my post as I specified "vulgar" which you can research the definition of here.

  • Reply 15 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    mstone wrote: »
    Perhaps you should reread the rules, and my post as I specified "vulgar" which you can reasearch the definition of here.

    [VIDEO]
  • Reply 16 of 38
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    The site's feelings on profanity is outlined pretty well in the rules.



    Actually, profanity is not mentioned at all.


    http://forums.appleinsider.com/a/terms-of-service


     


    and the 3rd paragraph is messed up.


     




    By agreeing to these rules, 



    What "rules"?


     




    you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.



    Okay. But I'm supposed to agree with some other non-existent rule(s) first before I warrant anything.


     


    How about;


    "By posting on this site, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.


    If you violate the above rule, your posts may be deleted and/or you may be prohibited from posting."

  • Reply 17 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I love the regular posters on AI. Always intelligent and entertaining comments.
  • Reply 18 of 38


    Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post


    How about;


    "By posting on this site, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.


    If you violate the above rule, your posts may be deleted and/or you may be prohibited from posting."



     


    That's… a given. That's implied by the words themselves… 


     


    You're selling [product], see, and this kid comes up and takes one—walks off with it. Are you saying that because there's no sign on your door that says "no stealing, otherwise we'll take it back from you" he can keep it? REALLY?! image


     


    I mean this, when I refer to "rules". 

  • Reply 19 of 38
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    I love the regular posters on AI. Always intelligent and entertaining comments.


    Gratuitous self promotion, you should be banned. image

  • Reply 20 of 38
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    I mean this, when I refer to "rules". 



    Fine thanks for posting that. Why should this not be the terms of service then?

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