For those that say, "They should make them in the USA!" ... stupid, stupid, stupid. (not even going to get into why as it's just too bleeding obvious).
Do you have idea that you are the one being stupid, stupid, stupid with this statement?
And the first two statements are respectively stupid and stupid, stupid.
Change them before too many people see it. It's quite embarrassing.
Samsung is the one burning its bridges.
Samsung should just make peace and take Apple's offer for a license to its patents and vice versa, just as it has done with Microsoft, just as HTC has done with Apple, etc. before Samsung got greedy - not wanting to pay anyone's including for its previous licenses, and stubbornly kept copying.
For those that say, "They should make them in the USA!" ... stupid, stupid, stupid. (not even going to get into why as it's just too bleeding obvious).
At some point, I expect Apple to become more vertically integrated by partnering/buying a piece of a memory manufacturer and chip manufacturer. It makes perfect sense, they will then get lower cost components and always be #1 with the FAB. Apple's got plenty of bank to make this happen.
My guess is that the reason Samsung is outselling the other Android manufacturers is that Samsung has the capacity to produce enough ARM processors, whereas the others are vying for them from other suppliers. This is the only real way to make sense of what's happening in the Android world: there's a supply constraint which is affecting everyone else but not Samsung. Processor fabrication seems like a likely candidate. If this is the case, then it's likely that the only reason Samsung has this advantage is because they had to build out capacity early on because of their contract with Apple. So Apple essentially handed them this advantage. I think that's why the relationship between Samsung and Apple is particularly bad now. Switching now probably won't make a lot of difference though.
I was just listing the stupid knee-jerk arguments that were sure to come up, this being one of them.
In the case of chip fabs that are automated I suppose the argument isn't as ridiculous as it is in most other cases but I'm no manufacturing expert. Generally speaking "made in USA" is a bad thing for most consumers and just isn't going to happen for most manufacturing.
Do you have idea that you are the one being stupid, stupid, stupid with this statement?
And the first two statements are respectively stupid and stupid, stupid.
Change them before too many people see it. It's quite embarrassing.
See my response to "mstone." I forgot that chip fabs are mostly automated and thus partly excluded from the stupidity of "manufacturing things in the USA" argument.
As to the first two points, you're going to have to actually come up with something as to why I'm "stupid, stupid, stupid" (bonus points for those that know the origin of the quote), as an argument consists of more than just the automatic gainsaying of the other persons statement.
I forgot that chip fabs are mostly automated and thus partly excluded from the stupidity of "manufacturing things in the USA" argument.
There is more than one way to look at the made in USA situation. Up until a couple decades ago when manufacturing started shifting to Asia, virtually anything could be made in the USA which provided us with a very diversified manufacturing base. Diversification is a good thing as any financial advisor will tell you. From a long term perspective losing our manufacturing base leaves us more vulnerable to foreign manipulation and could ultimately affect our national security. When many of the parts for our defense systems contain electronics from abroad it is not exactly a comforting feeling given the current political unrest in the world.
This, if happened, would be a bad shift. Seriously, that'd just mean current TSMC customers will order from Samsung instead of TSMC while Apple would order from TSMC. That means other customers (i.e. Android device manufactures) will get better chips than Apple.
Since The ARM chips Samsung makes for other Android OEMS are basic standard models that anyone can buy or make, why would Android OEMs get "better" chips.
Apple has been customizing their ARM chips because they have a special license that allows them to do that. HTC and other OEMs have to buy whatever Samsung or TSMC makes.
If you read Anandtech, you'll see that Apple has the "better chips" and can make them with whatever foundrys they choose.
The Downside for android OEMs buying ARM from Samsung, the OEMs can't purchase in the quantity that Apple does, so they may have to pay more for the ARM chips than they presently do with TSMC.
Samsung will make more profits with selling ARM chips and that will hurt other Android OEMs.
They reality is exactly the opposite of what you postulated.
Don't see why, Apple has been looking to drop Samsung for quite a while so was hardly unexpected. The companies that get pushed out can go knocking at Samsungs door as they will have a lot of spare capacity.
What's worth more to Samsung in over all profit, Apple's Business or their handset sales, anyone know?
/sarcasm on
Well, seeing as how they rely on Apple's business to provide them with designs for their handset business, I'd say that is more important to them!
/sarcasm off
I am not sure I believe many of these stories. It think Apply would put a tighter lid on this kind of stuff that it does it's product development. These kind of leaks could really hurt Apple's business. Like it or not, Apple cannot produce most of their mobile products without Samsung.
As for how bad this will hurt Samsung, it is any one's guess. Typically companies like Apple squeeze suppliers very hard. They cut their profits margins to nearly nothing. 1 billion is sales might be very little profit for Samsung. If Apple completely dumps Samsung, it will certainly hurt them, but might not affect their profits as much as many here seem to think.
At this moment, I think Apple needs Samsung more that Samsung needs Apple....
Re: "Another rumor that surfaced in August claimed that Apple made an offer for around $1 billion that would have made TSMC a dedicated chip producer to Apple alone."
Apple should offer $1 billion (or more) toward the construction of an all-new fab for AX chip production. TSMC wouldn't need to use any existing capital equipment to make the Apple chips. They would just need to hire and train new workers (and probably transfer workers from other fabs to the "Apple fab" temporarily, until the new hires get up to speed.)
I think you underestimate just how huge Apples demands are volume wise. Further this might not just be a move to jump away from Samsung but rather to solve the all of your eggs in one basket problem. As demonstrated by the article we are talking about volumes that employ multiple factories. As such you need to diversify just to cover your butt from natural problem much less man made ones.
As it is I could see Apple partnering with TMSC and other suppliers to make sure the supply chain is secure and diverse.
If no shockwaves through industry it'll at least happen in this thread. People will likely touch on:
1. DigiTimes
2. Can a Samsung competitor create the high level of quality?
Actually I have zero doubt here. You make an assumption here that Apples success with its pricessors is Samsungs doing when in fact much of the tech is licensed to Samsung.
3. Samsung is doomed, loosing a $1B orders from Apple
Expect huge layoff in the manufacturing arm. This will be very public too as some of that production is in the US.
4. Apple shouldn't have a single chip provider; SPOF
No they shouldn't. At the very least they need to avoid production coming from one plant or geographical area. The volumes we are talking about here are massive and as such a little CYA is needed. Just imagine if all production was in NYC a month of sales could have been lost.
5. Will Apple shift to Intel chips?
[/Quote]
Not a chance. I would expect Apple to build their own plants first.
Comments
Do you have idea that you are the one being stupid, stupid, stupid with this statement?
And the first two statements are respectively stupid and stupid, stupid.
Change them before too many people see it. It's quite embarrassing.
deleted
Originally Posted by ankleskater
Change them before too many people see it.
Seems stupid to say that, given that you've quoted it.
You must think that Samsung is a small company.
For the fastest growing Fab corporation in the globe it's amazing it gets zero rumor press.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
For those that say, "They should make them in the USA!" ... stupid, stupid, stupid. (not even going to get into why as it's just too bleeding obvious).
Aren't the chips currently made in the USA?
Samsung were making phones long before Apple. If anything, It's Apple that couldn't resist the appeal of the mobile market.
My guess is that the reason Samsung is outselling the other Android manufacturers is that Samsung has the capacity to produce enough ARM processors, whereas the others are vying for them from other suppliers. This is the only real way to make sense of what's happening in the Android world: there's a supply constraint which is affecting everyone else but not Samsung. Processor fabrication seems like a likely candidate. If this is the case, then it's likely that the only reason Samsung has this advantage is because they had to build out capacity early on because of their contract with Apple. So Apple essentially handed them this advantage. I think that's why the relationship between Samsung and Apple is particularly bad now. Switching now probably won't make a lot of difference though.
Indeed. ;-)
It's called talking to someone at his level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Aren't the chips currently made in the USA?
I was just listing the stupid knee-jerk arguments that were sure to come up, this being one of them.
In the case of chip fabs that are automated I suppose the argument isn't as ridiculous as it is in most other cases but I'm no manufacturing expert. Generally speaking "made in USA" is a bad thing for most consumers and just isn't going to happen for most manufacturing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
Do you have idea that you are the one being stupid, stupid, stupid with this statement?
And the first two statements are respectively stupid and stupid, stupid.
Change them before too many people see it. It's quite embarrassing.
See my response to "mstone." I forgot that chip fabs are mostly automated and thus partly excluded from the stupidity of "manufacturing things in the USA" argument.
As to the first two points, you're going to have to actually come up with something as to why I'm "stupid, stupid, stupid" (bonus points for those that know the origin of the quote), as an argument consists of more than just the automatic gainsaying of the other persons statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
I forgot that chip fabs are mostly automated and thus partly excluded from the stupidity of "manufacturing things in the USA" argument.
There is more than one way to look at the made in USA situation. Up until a couple decades ago when manufacturing started shifting to Asia, virtually anything could be made in the USA which provided us with a very diversified manufacturing base. Diversification is a good thing as any financial advisor will tell you. From a long term perspective losing our manufacturing base leaves us more vulnerable to foreign manipulation and could ultimately affect our national security. When many of the parts for our defense systems contain electronics from abroad it is not exactly a comforting feeling given the current political unrest in the world.
Since The ARM chips Samsung makes for other Android OEMS are basic standard models that anyone can buy or make, why would Android OEMs get "better" chips.
Apple has been customizing their ARM chips because they have a special license that allows them to do that. HTC and other OEMs have to buy whatever Samsung or TSMC makes.
If you read Anandtech, you'll see that Apple has the "better chips" and can make them with whatever foundrys they choose.
The Downside for android OEMs buying ARM from Samsung, the OEMs can't purchase in the quantity that Apple does, so they may have to pay more for the ARM chips than they presently do with TSMC.
Samsung will make more profits with selling ARM chips and that will hurt other Android OEMs.
They reality is exactly the opposite of what you postulated.
/sarcasm on
Well, seeing as how they rely on Apple's business to provide them with designs for their handset business, I'd say that is more important to them!
/sarcasm off
I am not sure I believe many of these stories. It think Apply would put a tighter lid on this kind of stuff that it does it's product development. These kind of leaks could really hurt Apple's business. Like it or not, Apple cannot produce most of their mobile products without Samsung.
As for how bad this will hurt Samsung, it is any one's guess. Typically companies like Apple squeeze suppliers very hard. They cut their profits margins to nearly nothing. 1 billion is sales might be very little profit for Samsung. If Apple completely dumps Samsung, it will certainly hurt them, but might not affect their profits as much as many here seem to think.
At this moment, I think Apple needs Samsung more that Samsung needs Apple....
Apple should offer $1 billion (or more) toward the construction of an all-new fab for AX chip production. TSMC wouldn't need to use any existing capital equipment to make the Apple chips. They would just need to hire and train new workers (and probably transfer workers from other fabs to the "Apple fab" temporarily, until the new hires get up to speed.)
As it is I could see Apple partnering with TMSC and other suppliers to make sure the supply chain is secure and diverse.
Actually I have zero doubt here. You make an assumption here that Apples success with its pricessors is Samsungs doing when in fact much of the tech is licensed to Samsung. Expect huge layoff in the manufacturing arm. This will be very public too as some of that production is in the US. No they shouldn't. At the very least they need to avoid production coming from one plant or geographical area. The volumes we are talking about here are massive and as such a little CYA is needed. Just imagine if all production was in NYC a month of sales could have been lost. [/Quote]
Not a chance. I would expect Apple to build their own plants first.